Years ago nearly every body in the country had a 22 behinde the back seat , or a small shotgun in the laundry , but then we had no drugs ,cheers
dogbox said
11:19 AM Aug 4, 2018
not much point in being armed unless you are prepared to use them. then you become the bad guy an find yourself in more trouble than the real bad guy
Yuglamron said
11:45 AM Aug 4, 2018
Very surprised they used the Aborigine word in the police report.
SouthernComfort said
12:20 PM Aug 4, 2018
Some simple safety precautions we use: 1.) Door always locked from inside at night 2.) We have a panic alarm mounted on the 4 seasons hatch, the deafening noise could be enough to send the rats scurrying...
Not foolproof, but might just make the difference.
Eaglemax said
01:21 PM Aug 4, 2018
Just for members benefit the laws on trespass are vague for many.
Trespass itself isn't a crime, willful trespass is.
At your home if you find someone on your property say at night you obviously ask what he is doing and say he doesn't answer sufficiently to satisfy you. Ring the police. You ask him/her to leave. Failure to leave then becomes willful trespass, an offence. If nothing is getting damaged and you or family members aren't in danger, wait for the police. If you are in danger or you want to stop property damage or theft you can use proportional force to restrain that person to present them to the police or a magistrate. You tell him/her they are under arrest for willful trespass. Reasons for an arrest are- preserve public order, prevent an offence starting, continuing or repeating, protect an individuals safety or welfare.
Your caravan is no different nor is its immediate vicinity. As previously stated by dogbox if you don't know what you are doing you can end up in strife yourself. However on the extremely rare situation whereby say a drunk person enters your caravan to assault you then it is best to know that you have the legal reason to do the above, tie the guy up and wait for police...if you have that physical ability.
Proportional force doesn't mean excessive force. The best guide to proportional force is to ask yourself, that in a court of law you can easily convince a jury of 12 average people that your force wasn't excessive...that they would have used a similar level of persuasion :)
I read some time ago somewhere when a caravan owner had a vocal fellow stand outside his door and was yelling so much the van owner sprayed wasp killer from a pressure pack at his face and the guy had to leave. Well, that's why police charge people with assault. Yelling abuse is one thing, using a weapon is excessive. Restraint is the objective.
I had a 19yo dog owner arrive at my house. We had his dog for one full month and no one answered adverts or notices in shop windows. We finally did a chip scan and contacted him. The dog was in a poor state of health. When he came to collect the dog he was abusive claiming we stole the dog etc. I tried explaining to him the situation, that the dog was found 8 kms away and hungry and we want to be assured she was going to be better looked after before we handed the dog over. His mood changed quickly, then tried to force his way into our home. I warned him I will arrest him if he didn't leave our home. Fortunately he settled, we chatted and all ended up ok.
It's good to know your rights. Things can go pear shaped fairly quickly.
Oh, there is one alternative....you can use excessive force. Think of the benefits...free holiday away from the misses, free food, medical and you'll be out in a day or so under the revolving door system we have for convictions.
Tony
Mike Harding said
02:30 PM Aug 4, 2018
Eaglemax wrote:Proportional force doesn't mean excessive force.
And this is where Australia needs to change its laws just as the UK did five years ago.
I argue that it is a very, very solid bet that an intruder in my home at 2am has a wish to do me harm and I need to be able to protect myself because it is a certain bet the police will not be on hand, or attend in a time-frame, to do it.
Eaglemax said
02:47 PM Aug 4, 2018
Correct Mike. I was only outlining the legal aspect. Reality is quite different.
Phillipn said
03:28 PM Aug 4, 2018
We use pest spray on pests, these fellows would come under the category of pests.
Desert Dweller said
03:44 PM Aug 4, 2018
Lots of scum bags around, the elderly are a soft target.
Tony Bev said
06:38 PM Aug 4, 2018
I have no sympathy for anyone who attacks an elderly person
Hopefully the police will track them down, by their fingerprints, as they recovered the car, and hammer
7.30 pm, it makes me wonder why others did not come to their aid
Warren-Pat_01 said
07:07 PM Aug 4, 2018
All of you people travelling north (& south) - BE CAREFUL as most larger towns in Qld as all are suffering the same fate. Townsville people think it is only happening there but travelling down on this trip to Warrnambool, we've found the problem in other places as well.
The State Govt doesn't believe in being tough on "the dear little darlings" who are aged from 8 to 18. Sure some are from families affected by abuse, alcohol & drugs but these kids are not attending school & are roaming the streets each night looking for victims of any age. They have no respect for anyone, the law included. So far there hasn't been any fatalities while they have been hooning around in stolen cars but that is due I think, to the fact that new cars are safer. A couple have bee badly hurt in the odd crash but their so-called mates run off & leave the smashed up kid to this own resources.
The police are catching them but the courts are too soft on them, the govt even more so. It rewards them with takeaway food, replaces the TV sets that they smash in the youth detention centres, cow-tow to them when they riot, etc. One worker lost an eye in one riot when he was hit with something that had been thrown.
What do you do? I don't know. There was a statement made not so long ago that "it was our fault for not making our houses secure enough so these scumbags could break in"!!
I would suggest the installation of an alarm like SouthernComfort has fitted!
If anyone thinks that I'm biased - ask the other 200,000 people who live in Townsville. And it is only a small minority (& they are not all aboriginal) that are reeking havoc but they are virtually holding everyone to living in Fort Knox. The only reason they didn't get into our place one night is that we lock the security doors with the key.
The police couldn't do anything as "we did not have a security camera installed" - I now have movement sensitive lights all round the place!
And having a dog is no deterrent either - they are opening the gates, letting the dogs escape.
Dave1952 said
07:21 PM Aug 4, 2018
I think too that usage of illicit drugs can fuel some of these types of incidents. Irrespective of skin colour, someone hopped out of their head on drugs is a very dangerous intruder to confront. A lot seem to vent their anger in road rage as well, and against nomads too. So wherever we go, and whatever we do, we need eyes in the backs of our heads and the awareness of our rights as so well explained by Eaglemax.
AlPal said
09:06 PM Aug 4, 2018
I am definitely the bad guy. If you come to get into my van with criminal intent, good luck - suffer the consequences - hope you have a tooth brush. AlPal
Phillipn said
09:43 PM Aug 4, 2018
AlPal wrote:
I am definitely the bad guy. If you come to get into my van with criminal intent, good luck - suffer the consequences - hope you have a tooth brush. AlPal
Yes, a well aimed can of wasp spray in the face will stop them. These p****s are fair game.
Recoup said
09:43 PM Aug 4, 2018
The politicans walking around with bodyguards ,but we can't protect our self , cheers
Bas + Eve said
10:14 PM Aug 4, 2018
Perhaps time has come for CPs to have security patrols.
PeterD said
10:43 PM Aug 4, 2018
Unfortunately they wer staying in one of the few no-go parts of the area. That park has a long history of problems for the police. See this news article. Just click on the individual articles.
Desert Dweller said
05:25 AM Aug 5, 2018
In our recent experience, not only are these scum bags in larger country towns, they are in the nearby small towns as well, because it's cheaper to live.
For example Horsham VIC has had a well known drug problem for many years.
We have personal experiences that the nearby smaller towns like Murtoa & Minyip have druggies staying at their low cost community caravan parks in cheap nylon tents.
DMaxer said
08:01 AM Aug 5, 2018
I am sure you mean well Eaglemax, but your legal advice is absolute tripe. I have been a lawyer for the past forty odd years, as both a solicitor and then as a barrister, predominantly in criminal law and never stop being amazed at the number of people who give idiotic legal advice, usually after briefing Mr Google QC.
The defence of person and or property is set in statute in both the Code States and the Common Law States. With the exception of the defence of mental impairment, a defendant does not have to prove anything to "a jury of twelve average people" whatever that is supposed to mean. Anything raised in a trial must be negated by the prosecution, they carry the burden of proof throughout the whole of a trial. In any event, assault matters are not held before juries, they are dealt with summarily in the local court system.
Your definition and qualification of trespass is just ridiculous.
I respectfully suggest sir that until you have qualifications in law and have spent a few years in practice you refrain from lecturing on subjects that you have no qualifications in which to do so.
Ron-D said
08:46 AM Aug 5, 2018
I think if your camped in an area and theres others around your fairly safe,they dont like being caught out in the open with witnesses, of a night always have the door locked,thats when your most vulnerable .I never gave much thought to an alarm system but it sounds like a very good idea...
SouthernComfort said
08:52 AM Aug 5, 2018
The reality is, in a reactive situation such as this most humans will default to the survival instinct. The only decision we process within mere seconds, is about Fight or Flight. I doubt we'd worry too much about any legal implications with the 'tools' we might use to protect ourselves in choosing the former!
rockylizard said
09:13 AM Aug 5, 2018
Gday...
As with others who has responded to this post, I am also disgusted that people are not able to be safe in their 'personal space'.
However, this report needs to be kept in a bit of perspective.
This is also not a 'modern' phenomena - 'home invasion', aggravated burglary, theft and/or attack has been occurring for centuries.
Folk are equally susceptible to 'home invasion', aggravated burglary, theft and/or attack whether in their suburban home or in their caravan on a holiday.
Acts of 'home invasion', aggravated burglary, theft and/or attack are not the sole preserve of indigenous folk - from whatever background. Low-life is prevalent in all races and cultures.
As others, like me - wise in hindsight - have stated that one needs to be always vigilant and ensure that all property is securely locked both day and night. One needs to not provide 'easy' circumstances for these crimes to be committed.
That said - stay safe and travel well.
Cheers - John
beiffe said
10:59 AM Aug 5, 2018
I had a sensor light facing the door of my bus inside so anyone entering the door would have to adjust to the light first and then try a dodge my tyre checker as it ventured forward in front of me. I also had another movement and sound detector light outside the door and as I spent many years i=on a prawn trailer where a light was used to wake us to raise the nets I will still wake up when a light is turned on , even a car on the road so there is little chance they would surprise me that much. I am also a very light sleeper and any sound will wake me up.
I never choose to stay in a park and in 8 years it happened about 10 day and one week was when I attended a forum gathering (never again)
I always elected where possible to stay at least 10 ks from a town and normally on my own and even though I never locked a door I never had a problem.
Park so you have a straight access out of the area, I could get to the driving seat and I dont think to many vehicles could withstand a gentle smack from the bull bar and the Hino gearbox as I left the site if they had the misfortune to park in front of me.
We all try and plan our escape IF confronted it is just could we if the need arose.
Best to have as many deterrents as possible and then it is all luck after that
IAN zzz said
04:36 PM Aug 5, 2018
AlPal wrote:
I am definitely the bad guy. If you come to get into my van with criminal intent, good luck - suffer the consequences - hope you have a tooth brush. AlPal
I with you ... 100%
Stay safe Al
AlPal said
03:41 PM Aug 6, 2018
Thanks IAN zzz. I won't bother to trot out my qualifications, suffice to say our adversarial system of justice is no longer relevant for the well being of victims. Most people in Australia serving jail sentences for violence have been there many, many times before. My advice to the majority of Australians who are decent and law abiding citizens, who have paid taxes and worked for a living is to develop situational awareness. By that I mean when you become suspicious of a person because of their appearance, their actions, their attitude or they look out of place (caravan park area), the odds are they are very much tainted with prior convictions. Criminals develop traits that give them away. Do not engage in conversation with them, learn how to say "no thanks" and "see you later". There are many clubs and organizations who could arrange for a security audit on your van, motor home, etc, which I think is well worth doing. Regards, AlPal.
Take care - everywhere.
https://www.9news.com.au/national/2018/08/03/19/30/hervey-bay-queensland-caravan-park-couple-attacked-with-hammer
We need Charles Bronson Back.
Very surprised they used the Aborigine word in the police report.
Not foolproof, but might just make the difference.
Just for members benefit the laws on trespass are vague for many.
Trespass itself isn't a crime, willful trespass is.
At your home if you find someone on your property say at night you obviously ask what he is doing and say he doesn't answer sufficiently to satisfy you. Ring the police. You ask him/her to leave. Failure to leave then becomes willful trespass, an offence. If nothing is getting damaged and you or family members aren't in danger, wait for the police. If you are in danger or you want to stop property damage or theft you can use proportional force to restrain that person to present them to the police or a magistrate. You tell him/her they are under arrest for willful trespass. Reasons for an arrest are- preserve public order, prevent an offence starting, continuing or repeating, protect an individuals safety or welfare.
Your caravan is no different nor is its immediate vicinity. As previously stated by dogbox if you don't know what you are doing you can end up in strife yourself. However on the extremely rare situation whereby say a drunk person enters your caravan to assault you then it is best to know that you have the legal reason to do the above, tie the guy up and wait for police...if you have that physical ability.
Proportional force doesn't mean excessive force. The best guide to proportional force is to ask yourself, that in a court of law you can easily convince a jury of 12 average people that your force wasn't excessive...that they would have used a similar level of persuasion :)
I read some time ago somewhere when a caravan owner had a vocal fellow stand outside his door and was yelling so much the van owner sprayed wasp killer from a pressure pack at his face and the guy had to leave. Well, that's why police charge people with assault. Yelling abuse is one thing, using a weapon is excessive. Restraint is the objective.
I had a 19yo dog owner arrive at my house. We had his dog for one full month and no one answered adverts or notices in shop windows. We finally did a chip scan and contacted him. The dog was in a poor state of health. When he came to collect the dog he was abusive claiming we stole the dog etc. I tried explaining to him the situation, that the dog was found 8 kms away and hungry and we want to be assured she was going to be better looked after before we handed the dog over. His mood changed quickly, then tried to force his way into our home. I warned him I will arrest him if he didn't leave our home. Fortunately he settled, we chatted and all ended up ok.
It's good to know your rights. Things can go pear shaped fairly quickly.
Oh, there is one alternative....you can use excessive force. Think of the benefits...free holiday away from the misses, free food, medical and you'll be out in a day or so under the revolving door system we have for convictions.
Tony
And this is where Australia needs to change its laws just as the UK did five years ago.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/kill-burglar-self-defence-what-law-allow-richard-osborn-brooks-reasonable-force-murder-householder-a8290441.html#explainer-question-0
I argue that it is a very, very solid bet that an intruder in my home at 2am has a wish to do me harm and I need to be able to protect myself because it is a certain bet the police will not be on hand, or attend in a time-frame, to do it.
We use pest spray on pests, these fellows would come under the category of pests.
Hopefully the police will track them down, by their fingerprints, as they recovered the car, and hammer
7.30 pm, it makes me wonder why others did not come to their aid
The State Govt doesn't believe in being tough on "the dear little darlings" who are aged from 8 to 18. Sure some are from families affected by abuse, alcohol & drugs but these kids are not attending school & are roaming the streets each night looking for victims of any age. They have no respect for anyone, the law included. So far there hasn't been any fatalities while they have been hooning around in stolen cars but that is due I think, to the fact that new cars are safer. A couple have bee badly hurt in the odd crash but their so-called mates run off & leave the smashed up kid to this own resources.
The police are catching them but the courts are too soft on them, the govt even more so. It rewards them with takeaway food, replaces the TV sets that they smash in the youth detention centres, cow-tow to them when they riot, etc. One worker lost an eye in one riot when he was hit with something that had been thrown.
What do you do? I don't know. There was a statement made not so long ago that "it was our fault for not making our houses secure enough so these scumbags could break in"!!
I would suggest the installation of an alarm like SouthernComfort has fitted!
If anyone thinks that I'm biased - ask the other 200,000 people who live in Townsville. And it is only a small minority (& they are not all aboriginal) that are reeking havoc but they are virtually holding everyone to living in Fort Knox. The only reason they didn't get into our place one night is that we lock the security doors with the key.
The police couldn't do anything as "we did not have a security camera installed" - I now have movement sensitive lights all round the place!
And having a dog is no deterrent either - they are opening the gates, letting the dogs escape.
Yes, a well aimed can of wasp spray in the face will stop them. These p****s are fair game.
Unfortunately they wer staying in one of the few no-go parts of the area. That park has a long history of problems for the police. See this news article. Just click on the individual articles.
For example Horsham VIC has had a well known drug problem for many years.
We have personal experiences that the nearby smaller towns like Murtoa & Minyip have druggies staying at their low cost community caravan parks in cheap nylon tents.
I am sure you mean well Eaglemax, but your legal advice is absolute tripe. I have been a lawyer for the past forty odd years, as both a solicitor and then as a barrister, predominantly in criminal law and never stop being amazed at the number of people who give idiotic legal advice, usually after briefing Mr Google QC.
The defence of person and or property is set in statute in both the Code States and the Common Law States. With the exception of the defence of mental impairment, a defendant does not have to prove anything to "a jury of twelve average people" whatever that is supposed to mean. Anything raised in a trial must be negated by the prosecution, they carry the burden of proof throughout the whole of a trial. In any event, assault matters are not held before juries, they are dealt with summarily in the local court system.
Your definition and qualification of trespass is just ridiculous.
I respectfully suggest sir that until you have qualifications in law and have spent a few years in practice you refrain from lecturing on subjects that you have no qualifications in which to do so.
I think if your camped in an area and theres others around your fairly safe,they dont like being caught out in the open with witnesses, of a night always have the door locked,thats when your most vulnerable .I never gave much thought to an alarm system but it sounds like a very good idea...
Gday...
As with others who has responded to this post, I am also disgusted that people are not able to be safe in their 'personal space'.
However, this report needs to be kept in a bit of perspective.
This is also not a 'modern' phenomena - 'home invasion', aggravated burglary, theft and/or attack has been occurring for centuries.
Folk are equally susceptible to 'home invasion', aggravated burglary, theft and/or attack whether in their suburban home or in their caravan on a holiday.
Acts of 'home invasion', aggravated burglary, theft and/or attack are not the sole preserve of indigenous folk - from whatever background. Low-life is prevalent in all races and cultures.
As others, like me - wise in hindsight - have stated that one needs to be always vigilant and ensure that all property is securely locked both day and night. One needs to not provide 'easy' circumstances for these crimes to be committed.
That said - stay safe and travel well.
Cheers - John
I never choose to stay in a park and in 8 years it happened about 10 day and one week was when I attended a forum gathering (never again)
I always elected where possible to stay at least 10 ks from a town and normally on my own and even though I never locked a door I never had a problem.
Park so you have a straight access out of the area, I could get to the driving seat and I dont think to many vehicles could withstand a gentle smack from the bull bar and the Hino gearbox as I left the site if they had the misfortune to park in front of me.
We all try and plan our escape IF confronted it is just could we if the need arose.
Best to have as many deterrents as possible and then it is all luck after that
I with you ... 100%
Stay safe Al