I tend to agree.
I've always believed if you tow to your limit you are testing every component to its limit.
Tony
Warren-Pat_01 said
10:19 PM Aug 3, 2018
Thanks John, I'd love that Dodge RA too! Their fuel usage is about the same a my Patrol but I fear I'd have issues parking it in the garage & manoeuvring it shopping centre car parks. Was in a car park yesterday & saw it was too small for a mini-car - it took up two parks by parking diagonally!
To my friends who say all that weight stuff is b.....t, well here it is!
Yuglamron said
09:26 AM Aug 4, 2018
And the Caravan Industry want 4500Kg Vans.
Grandad5 said
09:55 AM Aug 4, 2018
Somebody once wrote that maximum towing capacities are not like airline luggage weight allowances
"There to be used"
But rather, similar to the max speed ratings on tyres.
Some car tyres are rated to 200 KPH or higher. Higher than that speed means the tyre is likely to fail.
Since reading that I started to realise the maximum towing capacity of a vehicle is the same.
Tow more than that weight and you may break the vehicle.
Furthermore, when a manufacturer states that weights over XX kgs will require a WDH, what they are in fact saying is that without a WDH you are over what that vehicle is designed to handle but if you include a WDH you can stretch the limit that little bit further.
And that's before we get into the physics of weights and relative measurements of van and vehicle and looking at the capacity of the vehicle on its own.
Since very large tow vehicles are not very common here and usually very expensive, the reasonable conclusion (In my humble opinion) is go for a smaller and lighter caravan.
Jim
The Belmont Bear said
11:19 AM Aug 4, 2018
My tug is rated to tow 3.5T the vans ATM is 3.2T but is only ever 2.7T when loaded (even with full water tanks). All my weights are within the current legal requiements and I believe that the Jeep has all the items that are on this guys list (plus a few that arent). Why would I or anyone else who is not full time on the road want to spend a fortune on a vehicle that is probably perfect for towing but completely impractical for every day use around town. Where did this idea come from that a tug should be rated to tow 2x a trailers weight it sounds to me like its just another from the long list of personal opinions ? I dont get riled Rocky just a little frustrated reading these type of articles because everytime I think that I have finally met all the requirements to safely operate my rig someone wants to try and stress me out again by moving the goal posts.
BB
SouthernComfort said
11:30 AM Aug 4, 2018
Grandad5 wrote:
Somebody once wrote that maximum towing capacities are not like airline luggage weight allowances "There to be used"
But rather, similar to the max speed ratings on tyres. Some car tyres are rated to 200 KPH or higher. Higher than that speed means the tyre is likely to fail.
Since reading that I started to realise the maximum towing capacity of a vehicle is the same. Tow more than that weight and you may break the vehicle.
Furthermore, when a manufacturer states that weights over XX kgs will require a WDH, what they are in fact saying is that without a WDH you are over what that vehicle is designed to handle but if you include a WDH you can stretch the limit that little bit further.
And that's before we get into the physics of weights and relative measurements of van and vehicle and looking at the capacity of the vehicle on its own.
Since very large tow vehicles are not very common here and usually very expensive, the reasonable conclusion (In my humble opinion) is go for a smaller and lighter caravan.
Jim
An excellent point Jim, for a while I've been pondering the same logic. My car (Jeep GC) is rated for towing 3500kg, but a WDH is specified for tow weights exceeding 2268kg. So, if my car needs the aid if a 'crutch' for heavier towing, surely that's when the standard build design starts to become challenged. My ATM is 2150kg and with a modest car payload I no longer use a WDH (which in itself weighs around 35kg!!). The rig remains quite level. I think the opinion in the original article posted is a bit extreme, but I'm afraid there's no way would I be hauling a 3000kg van around knowing everything is strained virtually to the max.
-- Edited by SouthernComfort on Saturday 4th of August 2018 11:33:55 AM
denmonkey said
11:26 PM Aug 4, 2018
pajero can handle 3000kg my van is 1500kg, so i'm doing ok.
I sometimes think it might be wiser buying the tug first and then finding a van that suits.
Could just be me though but I like a smaller van and making the most of my space.
I'd prefer the head room for towing and parking etc over a little extra comfort of a longer bigger van.
Grandad5 said
09:25 AM Aug 5, 2018
I believe it has everything to do with expectations rather than needs.
Eg; I live in a 100+ year old miners cottage that was originally a little over 7 squares. (Hey, I'm on the Grey Nomads forum with my fellow "Old Farts" that remember what a square is )
Because I've been able to research the history I know the original owner raised 5 kids in this house. (two bedrooms)
Ask any millennial and they'll assure you that you can't raise even two kids in anything less than 30 squares and 4 bedrooms.
The "Need" has been shown. It's the desire or expectation and availability that has changed over the years. Or perhaps more accurately the choices available.
The same goes for caravans. Our vans have steadily increased in both size and weight over the past 40 years.
The "Need" has not changed. Only the availability, desire and expectation has.
I'm certainly not ignoring the advances in technology and better, cheaper building methods (AKA Made in China) that make these choices available and I'm not advocating we should all pull a van from the 60's, even if that is in fact what I do.
But when these choices impact on safety, maybe its time for a rethink of our definition of "Need"
Just something to think about.
Jim
blaze said
12:52 PM Aug 5, 2018
When I was a young tacker, we toured in a ten foot ply van with a couple bunks, one of those tables that folded down to a double bed and inside cooking. cleaning the body was done outside in the fresh air with a bucket of cold water. The good old days. we were a family of 5 at the time. My sister come along later and bloody heck she got spoilt, large 2 room tent with all the mod cons
cheers
blaze
Aus-Kiwi said
02:27 PM Aug 5, 2018
Simple. Tow with a truck and get licence !! It seems too much trouble for some ! Yet still want to ! SUV is not a heavy tow vehicle . No matter what lipstick you apply !!! Itās that NUT !!
Gday...
Most will have read, or heard about, these comments before ... although it is good to read through and absorb.
Even give some consideration to the logic of it all. However, I am sure it will rile many on here (and other forums).
Read it here
Cheers - John
I've always believed if you tow to your limit you are testing every component to its limit.
Tony
To my friends who say all that weight stuff is b.....t, well here it is!
And the Caravan Industry want 4500Kg Vans.
"There to be used"
But rather, similar to the max speed ratings on tyres.
Some car tyres are rated to 200 KPH or higher. Higher than that speed means the tyre is likely to fail.
Since reading that I started to realise the maximum towing capacity of a vehicle is the same.
Tow more than that weight and you may break the vehicle.
Furthermore, when a manufacturer states that weights over XX kgs will require a WDH, what they are in fact saying is that without a WDH you are over what that vehicle is designed to handle but if you include a WDH you can stretch the limit that little bit further.
And that's before we get into the physics of weights and relative measurements of van and vehicle and looking at the capacity of the vehicle on its own.
Since very large tow vehicles are not very common here and usually very expensive, the reasonable conclusion (In my humble opinion) is go for a smaller and lighter caravan.
Jim
My tug is rated to tow 3.5T the vans ATM is 3.2T but is only ever 2.7T when loaded (even with full water tanks). All my weights are within the current legal requiements and I believe that the Jeep has all the items that are on this guys list (plus a few that arent). Why would I or anyone else who is not full time on the road want to spend a fortune on a vehicle that is probably perfect for towing but completely impractical for every day use around town. Where did this idea come from that a tug should be rated to tow 2x a trailers weight it sounds to me like its just another from the long list of personal opinions ? I dont get riled Rocky just a little frustrated reading these type of articles because everytime I think that I have finally met all the requirements to safely operate my rig someone wants to try and stress me out again by moving the goal posts.
BB
An excellent point Jim, for a while I've been pondering the same logic. My car (Jeep GC) is rated for towing 3500kg, but a WDH is specified for tow weights exceeding 2268kg. So, if my car needs the aid if a 'crutch' for heavier towing, surely that's when the standard build design starts to become challenged. My ATM is 2150kg and with a modest car payload I no longer use a WDH (which in itself weighs around 35kg!!). The rig remains quite level. I think the opinion in the original article posted is a bit extreme, but I'm afraid there's no way would I be hauling a 3000kg van around knowing everything is strained virtually to the max.
-- Edited by SouthernComfort on Saturday 4th of August 2018 11:33:55 AM
I sometimes think it might be wiser buying the tug first and then finding a van that suits.
Could just be me though but I like a smaller van and making the most of my space.
I'd prefer the head room for towing and parking etc over a little extra comfort of a longer bigger van.
Eg; I live in a 100+ year old miners cottage that was originally a little over 7 squares. (Hey, I'm on the Grey Nomads forum with my fellow "Old Farts" that remember what a square is
Because I've been able to research the history I know the original owner raised 5 kids in this house. (two bedrooms)
Ask any millennial and they'll assure you that you can't raise even two kids in anything less than 30 squares and 4 bedrooms.
The "Need" has been shown. It's the desire or expectation and availability that has changed over the years. Or perhaps more accurately the choices available.
The same goes for caravans. Our vans have steadily increased in both size and weight over the past 40 years.
The "Need" has not changed. Only the availability, desire and expectation has.
I'm certainly not ignoring the advances in technology and better, cheaper building methods (AKA Made in China) that make these choices available and I'm not advocating we should all pull a van from the 60's, even if that is in fact what I do.
But when these choices impact on safety, maybe its time for a rethink of our definition of "Need"
Just something to think about.
Jim
cheers
blaze