Well Shelley and I have bitten the bullet and have purchased our first caravan. It is a 17' 2014 Jayco Starcraft Outback. It will be picked up from the dealership next Friday to have a few mods and extras included and removed. The dealership tried to convince us to let them do the mods. Though I preferred to have a third party to be involved who do Jayco's all the time. The third party, "Advantage Caravan Repairs" think with without seeing the caravan that it should have a 90 litre fresh water tank. A friend who also has the same caravan except his has a dual axle and is a pop-top has said you can never have too much fresh water. He has two tanks and said that it is surprising how much fresh water you go through. About 20 litres per day even if you are very frugal with it.
I have read that there are sites that require RV's to be self contained. Though do not know if this is becoming more the norm or not. We will be travelling with a pug (maybe 2) and a French Bulldog. Therefore as Shelley will not part from her dogs for a moment, National Parks are out. This OK as we plan to do free camping with popping into caravan parks to freshen up and refill the tank or tanks and empty the black and maybe grey water if we have that tank installed.
I have been told by the dealer that the RV has a Tare weight of 1900kg and the most it can weigh is 2250kg. My friend also suggested that if I insist on installing a grey water tank also have another fresh water tank as well. After all these tanks are installed, will the spare 150kg be enough for plastic plates and odds and ends?
I can see a couple of pairs of shorts, polo tops and T-shirts and maybe a pair of jeans, crocs. Similar clothing for Shelley. Plastic plates, plastic cups, plastic wine glasses, one fry pan and a gas kettle, a folding plastic table a second battery and a second portable solar cell. A pair of binoculars and an old 35mm film SLR camera. We are on a budget as I have had to finish my working carrier early for medical reasons. Which, in a way is a bonus. We will be able to journey for three weeks at a time and I will have three days of medical appointments back in Melbourne with specialists.
This will be our first van and we have never owned or used one before. The tow vehicle is a 2006 BF Ford Falcon Futura which can safely tow up to 2,300kg.
Shelley would like to do bird watching and maybe I can take some nice photos of fauna and flora. We also have a pocket digital Cannon IXUS for happy snaps around the table.
What would fellow Grey Nomads recommend please?
1. One fresh water tank.
2. Two fresh water tanks.
3. One fresh water tank and a grey water tank.
4. Two fresh water tanks and a grey water tank.
I will not know until next Friday or later if the caravan can have three tanks installed. Maybe only two tanks.
The caravan also has room for two jerry cans on the rear mounted spare wheel carrier.
Warm regards,
Shelley and Mitch.
Meredith said
07:22 PM Aug 2, 2018
If you had space and the weight and budget allows I would go for 4, 2 water tanks and a grey water tank. BUT with a 350kg load allowance I'm not sure that is feasible, almost certainly you would end up over weight by the time you loaded other normal stuff. As well as the stuff you have listed remember you also need to allow for hoses and leads and some basic tools and cleaning gear and food and bedding etc etc, 150kg would not in my opinion be enough. I would stick to what you have and save the money. We had a grey water tank installed by Advantage Caravans ourself a couple of years ago, can't remember the exact cost but I do remember it was dearer than I had expected. Try using the caravan for a while before getting anything done to it is my advice. We find having a grey water tank handy, but it is definitely not essential, there are not that many places yet that insist on one and there are always alternatives who don't.
-- Edited by Meredith on Thursday 2nd of August 2018 07:24:39 PM
Bassman said
08:00 PM Aug 2, 2018
Dear Meredith.
Have you had to use your grey water tank? Could you please tell me how common it is for a requirement to be self contained? Are country towns expecting it more often than not? We will most likely not be going that far a field. Possibly as high as the Gold Coast to visit my mum who is in a nursing home. One week up, one week in the hinterland and one week back. hough mainly Victoria, South Australia and Southern New South Wales. I have been told The Flinders Ranges are a must see. Use a caravan park as a base and drive around to the various spots. We would like to do the Big Lap and visit Tassie as well. Though at the same time try to free camp as much as we can. Having said that I do like to socialise more than Shelley and caravan parks do sound appealing too.
keiron said
08:02 PM Aug 2, 2018
I have recently returned from a tour of Sth West Qld and did stay in a few CP's, some of whom required Self contained Vans.
I rang a CP at Winton who did insist all vans be self contained, and when stated we carried all our own water, used batteries, BUT did not have a Grey water tank, they did not mind. When I queried having no grey water was not an issue, I was told that they only insist on "Self-contained" because they use Bore-Water which is not suitable for drinking.
In summary what they meant was carry your own water and survive without 240 Volts, they were happy. They did not need you to have an en-suite on board, just carry your own water & batteries.
We subsequently encountered this same translation at 4-5 other CP's in that greater area.
Cheers. KB
iana said
09:08 PM Aug 2, 2018
I have two water tanks, and a grey water tank. Originally installed by the maker, I had to move the front water tank to the rear, and place the grey water tank between the suspension just to get a towable rig with regard to weight and balance. I also have a 40 litre grey water trundler tank.
If I were you, I would go for the two, original fit water tanks, and then if need be, go and buy a 40 litre grey water trundler tank (Fiama 40 litre unit on wheels). This saves a whole lot of heart ache with installation, its easy to clean, and light to transport.
Easy bezzy!
Meredith said
10:49 PM Aug 2, 2018
We have used our grey water tank but only once was it in a place where you had to be fully self contained to stay. Apart from that we regularly use it during the day when stopped on hard standing for lunch etc, but you could just as easily use a bucket, or simply not wash up lunch dishes, and a couple of times when we have chosen to camp near a river and didn't want to put our grey water out that close to a waterway, but a bucket or similar could have worked. Its a nice to have thing, but I don't believe currently its essential for most people. Would much rather have the 2nd water tank, but I really think its likely you will go overweight if you do.
PeterD said
11:01 PM Aug 2, 2018
Adding a grey water tank only adds the weight of the tank and fittings. You do not allow for the weight of water in the tank as the water you place into the grey water tank comes from your fresh water tank.
I would not increase the water capacity to much. As you spend more time in your van you tend to add extra weight. We carry 450 kg of load (including 80 litres of water) in a 18' van with a tare of 1500 and ATM of 2,000 kg. I would suggest you go for the 90 litre tank and a 60 litre grey water tank.
We find the grey water tank very useful apart from when in self contained sites. It saves having to run a sullage hose when we are only camped for one or two nights. It allows us to use the sink when parked in towns or hard standing rest areas for meal breaks. It allows us to stop overnight in rest areas without showing a presence after we move on, and so the list goes on. Some say that we can do those things with a little bit of effort but when you have the tank on board life is so much easier.
Warren-Pat_01 said
11:36 PM Aug 2, 2018
Hi Bassman,
Welcome to traveling in comfort on the road.
We tend to stay in caravan or remote national parks.
If you stay in areas that are experiencing drought (63% of Qld, parts of central NSW & northern Victoria) the park managers will prefer that your grey water is let out on their (former) grass. I've looked at fitting a GW tank but do not have the ground clearance for it. I may buy one of those 40L portable tanks that iana mentioned on eBay & feed it with a hose.
When we had our Eagle camper, it came with only a 55L fresh water tank & we came very close to running out at Moorrinya NP (a good shower of rain saved the day). I added a 50L tank above the axle & only filled it when we were going into remote/isolated areas.
Our Discovery (similar size to yours, but a little lighter) has two 95L tanks fitted (one in front of the axle, one behind AND 190kg of water if full) - enough to get me into serious trouble with the "Scalies".
Be VERY CAREFUL with your weights - you say you can safely tow 2300kg but the weight of your van is very close to that limit - possibly stressing your car's engine & transmission. You may need an extra transmission oil cooler.
You will find numerous posts on the "Techies" & "General" sections of the forum on this subject. Lots of us have experienced shocks when we've loaded up & weighed our rigs! Yes, I was told I could tow 3,500kg - in effect at the time I was battling legally to tow a loaded 6x4 trailer!!
Remember the GVM of the car includes, the driver, passenger(s), fuel, the ball weight of the van, in your case - one or two dogs, any major accessories like a roo bar, tools & Shelley's scope, etc that you may carry.
I don't want to put you off but do your sums well before you go adding extra tanks, umpteen solar panels, batteries & a generator, etc. In effect, stop looking at the "lovely you must have these things" in the advert parts of magazines. I would suggest you "load up" as if you were heading out & place the rig on a weigh bridge - before hitting the road on a trip.
PS - If you have to, you can live on less than 20L of water a day. A wash can be a bowl of water & a washer to do two adults & two kids (we've done it). Everyone smells the same after a couple of days.
Bassman said
10:26 AM Aug 3, 2018
Thank you everyone for taking the time to reply and I appreciate your valued advice.
The car a 2006 BF Falcon Futura has had the folding fitted to it:
1. Heavy duty BTA tow bar
2. Redarc electronic breaking system
3. Ford Transmission Cooler
4. 12 pin plug for the caravan
5. A 12 volt outlet in the boot. This is for an Engel Fridge to keep the dog food separate from our food. The dogs eat some sort of special roll food only available from speciality Pet Stores that has to be refrigerated. It is not they are fussy eaters. It is something to do with the breeds and diets.
6. Heavy duty shocks and springs.
I have asked Advantage Caravan Repairs, before they do anything to weigh the van first so we know where we stand.
After chatting to a few mates last night on the radio, it came down to the solution of two fresh water tanks and a bucket. Though the idea of adding a 60 litre Grey water is also appealing. I have a better idea about what to chat to Advantage Caravan Repairs about now.
Thank you everybody for your valued inputs and replies.
villatranquilla said
10:29 AM Aug 3, 2018
don't believe the weights listed on the compliance plate - ask for a weigh bridge docket after all the extras are added or removed. Then have it weighed when you are packed up and loaded prior to your first trip. Only then will you have a true and accurate picture of the weights. I'd forget the extra tank at this point until you know your actual travel weight - another tank can be added later. We have done a lot of free camping since 2011 and only once had to change plans because we were not self contained. But in saying that I can see this will be a requirement in years to come especially if camping near waterways.
villatranquilla said
10:35 AM Aug 3, 2018
the engel running from the car battery is OK when travelling but will soon flatten the car battery if you are parked up. Our caravan fridge flattened the car battery in 2 hrs when we had forgotten to switch the fridge from 12v to gas when we went sight seeing at Gwalia.
Bassman said
10:44 AM Aug 3, 2018
The mods to the caravan are a few though only minor.
1. Two 12 volt small cooling fans pointing over the bed.
2. Second battery
3. 240 volt outlet on left hand side of the bed fed from the inverter for electric blankets on cold nights.
4. A folding solar cell to move around with the sun.
5. Necessary leads and plumbing hoses for connections at caravan parks.
6. Remove dining table
7. We will talk about extra water tanks and see where that leads.
8. Install and set up weight distribution hitch.
Well Shelley and I have bitten the bullet and have purchased our first caravan. It is a 17' 2014 Jayco Starcraft Outback. It will be picked up from the dealership next Friday to have a few mods and extras included and removed. The dealership tried to convince us to let them do the mods. Though I preferred to have a third party to be involved who do Jayco's all the time. The third party, "Advantage Caravan Repairs" think with without seeing the caravan that it should have a 90 litre fresh water tank. A friend who also has the same caravan except his has a dual axle and is a pop-top has said you can never have too much fresh water. He has two tanks and said that it is surprising how much fresh water you go through. About 20 litres per day even if you are very frugal with it.
I have read that there are sites that require RV's to be self contained. Though do not know if this is becoming more the norm or not. We will be travelling with a pug (maybe 2) and a French Bulldog. Therefore as Shelley will not part from her dogs for a moment, National Parks are out. This OK as we plan to do free camping with popping into caravan parks to freshen up and refill the tank or tanks and empty the black and maybe grey water if we have that tank installed.
I have been told by the dealer that the RV has a Tare weight of 1900kg and the most it can weigh is 2250kg. My friend also suggested that if I insist on installing a grey water tank also have another fresh water tank as well. After all these tanks are installed, will the spare 150kg be enough for plastic plates and odds and ends?
I can see a couple of pairs of shorts, polo tops and T-shirts and maybe a pair of jeans, crocs. Similar clothing for Shelley. Plastic plates, plastic cups, plastic wine glasses, one fry pan and a gas kettle, a folding plastic table a second battery and a second portable solar cell. A pair of binoculars and an old 35mm film SLR camera. We are on a budget as I have had to finish my working carrier early for medical reasons. Which, in a way is a bonus. We will be able to journey for three weeks at a time and I will have three days of medical appointments back in Melbourne with specialists.
This will be our first van and we have never owned or used one before. The tow vehicle is a 2006 BF Ford Falcon Futura which can safely tow up to 2,300kg.
Shelley would like to do bird watching and maybe I can take some nice photos of fauna and flora. We also have a pocket digital Cannon IXUS for happy snaps around the table.
What would fellow Grey Nomads recommend please?
1. One fresh water tank.
2. Two fresh water tanks.
3. One fresh water tank and a grey water tank.
4. Two fresh water tanks and a grey water tank.
I will not know until next Friday or later if the caravan can have three tanks installed. Maybe only two tanks.
The caravan also has room for two jerry cans on the rear mounted spare wheel carrier.
Warm regards,
Shelley and Mitch.
If you had space and the weight and budget allows I would go for 4, 2 water tanks and a grey water tank. BUT with a 350kg load allowance I'm not sure that is feasible, almost certainly you would end up over weight by the time you loaded other normal stuff. As well as the stuff you have listed remember you also need to allow for hoses and leads and some basic tools and cleaning gear and food and bedding etc etc, 150kg would not in my opinion be enough. I would stick to what you have and save the money. We had a grey water tank installed by Advantage Caravans ourself a couple of years ago, can't remember the exact cost but I do remember it was dearer than I had expected. Try using the caravan for a while before getting anything done to it is my advice. We find having a grey water tank handy, but it is definitely not essential, there are not that many places yet that insist on one and there are always alternatives who don't.
-- Edited by Meredith on Thursday 2nd of August 2018 07:24:39 PM
Have you had to use your grey water tank? Could you please tell me how common it is for a requirement to be self contained? Are country towns expecting it more often than not? We will most likely not be going that far a field. Possibly as high as the Gold Coast to visit my mum who is in a nursing home. One week up, one week in the hinterland and one week back. hough mainly Victoria, South Australia and Southern New South Wales. I have been told The Flinders Ranges are a must see. Use a caravan park as a base and drive around to the various spots. We would like to do the Big Lap and visit Tassie as well. Though at the same time try to free camp as much as we can. Having said that I do like to socialise more than Shelley and caravan parks do sound appealing too.
I have recently returned from a tour of Sth West Qld and did stay in a few CP's, some of whom required Self contained Vans.
I rang a CP at Winton who did insist all vans be self contained, and when stated we carried all our own water, used batteries, BUT did not have a Grey water tank, they did not mind. When I queried having no grey water was not an issue, I was told that they only insist on "Self-contained" because they use Bore-Water which is not suitable for drinking.
In summary what they meant was carry your own water and survive without 240 Volts, they were happy. They did not need you to have an en-suite on board, just carry your own water & batteries.
We subsequently encountered this same translation at 4-5 other CP's in that greater area.
Cheers. KB
If I were you, I would go for the two, original fit water tanks, and then if need be, go and buy a 40 litre grey water trundler tank (Fiama 40 litre unit on wheels). This saves a whole lot of heart ache with installation, its easy to clean, and light to transport.
Easy bezzy!
Adding a grey water tank only adds the weight of the tank and fittings. You do not allow for the weight of water in the tank as the water you place into the grey water tank comes from your fresh water tank.
I would not increase the water capacity to much. As you spend more time in your van you tend to add extra weight. We carry 450 kg of load (including 80 litres of water) in a 18' van with a tare of 1500 and ATM of 2,000 kg. I would suggest you go for the 90 litre tank and a 60 litre grey water tank.
We find the grey water tank very useful apart from when in self contained sites. It saves having to run a sullage hose when we are only camped for one or two nights. It allows us to use the sink when parked in towns or hard standing rest areas for meal breaks. It allows us to stop overnight in rest areas without showing a presence after we move on, and so the list goes on. Some say that we can do those things with a little bit of effort but when you have the tank on board life is so much easier.
Welcome to traveling in comfort on the road.
We tend to stay in caravan or remote national parks.
If you stay in areas that are experiencing drought (63% of Qld, parts of central NSW & northern Victoria) the park managers will prefer that your grey water is let out on their (former) grass. I've looked at fitting a GW tank but do not have the ground clearance for it. I may buy one of those 40L portable tanks that iana mentioned on eBay & feed it with a hose.
When we had our Eagle camper, it came with only a 55L fresh water tank & we came very close to running out at Moorrinya NP (a good shower of rain saved the day). I added a 50L tank above the axle & only filled it when we were going into remote/isolated areas.
Our Discovery (similar size to yours, but a little lighter) has two 95L tanks fitted (one in front of the axle, one behind AND 190kg of water if full) - enough to get me into serious trouble with the "Scalies".
Be VERY CAREFUL with your weights - you say you can safely tow 2300kg but the weight of your van is very close to that limit - possibly stressing your car's engine & transmission. You may need an extra transmission oil cooler.
You will find numerous posts on the "Techies" & "General" sections of the forum on this subject. Lots of us have experienced shocks when we've loaded up & weighed our rigs! Yes, I was told I could tow 3,500kg - in effect at the time I was battling legally to tow a loaded 6x4 trailer!!
Remember the GVM of the car includes, the driver, passenger(s), fuel, the ball weight of the van, in your case - one or two dogs, any major accessories like a roo bar, tools & Shelley's scope, etc that you may carry.
I don't want to put you off but do your sums well before you go adding extra tanks, umpteen solar panels, batteries & a generator, etc. In effect, stop looking at the "lovely you must have these things" in the advert parts of magazines. I would suggest you "load up" as if you were heading out & place the rig on a weigh bridge - before hitting the road on a trip.
PS - If you have to, you can live on less than 20L of water a day. A wash can be a bowl of water & a washer to do two adults & two kids (we've done it). Everyone smells the same after a couple of days.
The car a 2006 BF Falcon Futura has had the folding fitted to it:
1. Heavy duty BTA tow bar
2. Redarc electronic breaking system
3. Ford Transmission Cooler
4. 12 pin plug for the caravan
5. A 12 volt outlet in the boot. This is for an Engel Fridge to keep the dog food separate from our food. The dogs eat some sort of special roll food only available from speciality Pet Stores that has to be refrigerated. It is not they are fussy eaters. It is something to do with the breeds and diets.
6. Heavy duty shocks and springs.
I have asked Advantage Caravan Repairs, before they do anything to weigh the van first so we know where we stand.
After chatting to a few mates last night on the radio, it came down to the solution of two fresh water tanks and a bucket. Though the idea of adding a 60 litre Grey water is also appealing. I have a better idea about what to chat to Advantage Caravan Repairs about now.
Thank you everybody for your valued inputs and replies.
1. Two 12 volt small cooling fans pointing over the bed.
2. Second battery
3. 240 volt outlet on left hand side of the bed fed from the inverter for electric blankets on cold nights.
4. A folding solar cell to move around with the sun.
5. Necessary leads and plumbing hoses for connections at caravan parks.
6. Remove dining table
7. We will talk about extra water tanks and see where that leads.
8. Install and set up weight distribution hitch.
I think that is all.