I have a Jurgens Travado with a tow ball weight of 280 kilos. With gas bottles etc this is taking my tow ball weight beyond my tug's recommended tow ball weight. The spare tyre on the Travado is forward of the axles. Has anyone moved this to the rear of the van and would it take some tow ball weight off?
The Belmont Bear said
08:36 PM Aug 1, 2018
Hi whitebeach yes it will probably reduce the weight on the towball but its not a good idea to go adding extra weight to the back of the van because it can have a destabilising effect. Having said that my spare wheel is mounted on the back bar as it came out of the factory like that. I bought myself a set of towball scales which werent that expensive so I can quickly check exactly how much weight I have on the ball.
Cheers
BB
Eaglemax said
10:51 PM Aug 1, 2018
Hi Whitebeach. Nice van, just googled it. Can you relocate your LPG cylinders just aft of the wheels inside an approved LPG cabinet (or two) say, under the kitchen bench?
BB is right about the distabilising effect but I'd suggest with so much towball weight the spare at the rear wont upset things too much...just my view. Tony
PeterD said
11:07 PM Aug 1, 2018
Jonathan, What is your tow vehicle?
A van with an ATM of 3,000 kg should have a tow ball weight approaching that value. I would not suggest you reduce it by much. I note from the manufacturers brochure that the unladen ball weight is 280 kg, what is the loaded ball weight? What are you attempting to reduce it to?
Desert Dweller said
06:00 AM Aug 2, 2018
We had to do some juggling to achieve a reasonable tow ball weight.
We always travel with at least half a tank of water (tank is behind axle).
We leave our front boot empty & put the gear in the tub of our ute.
Our portable solar panels (15kg) & outdoor table sit on the floor near the rear double bed cushioned by foam rubber.
Our ball weight is 150-170kg.
whitebeach said
08:30 AM Aug 2, 2018
Hi,
My tug is a Land Rover Range Rover vogue (L322). It has confusing stats re tow ball. Land Rover says 250 kg tow ball but I have a plate on the tow bracket saying 350 kg. I have ordered a tow ball weight scale but am anxious at looking at the result!
gonfishen said
08:53 AM Aug 2, 2018
Hi Whitebeach I have the same tug as you and I have always been lead to believe the tow ball weight as being 350kg, having said that my caravan is 21ft and has a tow ball weight of 240kg, I have my spare wheel on the back and 2 x 9kg gas bottles at the front with 1 x house battery in the front boot. The car tows the van with no problems and does its own self leveling thing, my only issue is that sucking feeling of the van by big trucks as they pass me. Sorry should have mentioned 200lt of water on board front tank is just forward of vans wheels.
-- Edited by gonfishen on Thursday 2nd of August 2018 09:01:38 AM
Kebbin said
09:42 AM Aug 2, 2018
The manufacturers tow ball weight is there for a reason the 250kg is your maximum allowed, not the 350kg.
yobarr said
10:34 AM Aug 2, 2018
whitebeach wrote:
Hi,
My tug is a Land Rover Range Rover vogue (L322). It has confusing stats re tow ball. Land Rover says 250 kg tow ball but I have a plate on the tow bracket saying 350 kg. I have ordered a tow ball weight scale but am anxious at looking at the result!
Two points:- The 350kg is perhaps the rating of the actual towbar,but bolting it to a car that is rated at 250kg towing negates that,making it overkill?
Beware towball scales.I gave tried two types,and both were hopelessly inaccurate when used after, and before,a true weighing with bathroom scales,one brand having a 70kg discrepancy...too light.Just saying.
-- Edited by yobarr on Thursday 2nd of August 2018 10:36:35 AM
iana said
11:10 AM Aug 2, 2018
I find those tow bar ball weight a bit bizarre, Its my thoughts, there is more to the story. I know that European vehicle manufacturers do not like the higher ball weights, as it means a stronger rear suspension, and less comfort for the rear passengers. Therefore that weight stated in the vehicle owners hand book is the limit imposed, which may include rear passengers and luggage, plus a soft suspension. If the drawbar is the correct type made for that vehicle, its compliance plate should be labeled correctly.
I would first speak to Land Rover, and to the tow bar manufacturer and clear this up, there has to be a sound reason for the two different figures.
whitebeach said
12:33 PM Aug 2, 2018
gonfishen wrote:
Hi Whitebeach I have the same tug as you and I have always been lead to believe the tow ball weight as being 350kg, having said that my caravan is 21ft and has a tow ball weight of 240kg, I have my spare wheel on the back and 2 x 9kg gas bottles at the front with 1 x house battery in the front boot. The car tows the van with no problems and does its own self leveling thing, my only issue is that sucking feeling of the van by big trucks as they pass me. Sorry should have mentioned 200lt of water on board front tank is just forward of vans wheels.
-- Edited by gonfishen on Thursday 2nd of August 2018 09:01:38 AM
Hi gonfishen, why do you believe your tow ball weight is 350K. Do you have a L322?
ps why the 1st WW tank on your pic? My great grandfather was in WW1
whitebeach said
12:43 PM Aug 2, 2018
iana wrote:
I find those tow bar ball weight a bit bizarre, Its my thoughts, there is more to the story. I know that European vehicle manufacturers do not like the higher ball weights, as it means a stronger rear suspension, and less comfort for the rear passengers. Therefore that weight stated in the vehicle owners hand book is the limit imposed, which may include rear passengers and luggage, plus a soft suspension. If the drawbar is the correct type made for that vehicle, its compliance plate should be labeled correctly. I would first speak to Land Rover, and to the tow bar manufacturer and clear this up, there has to be a sound reason for the two different figures.
Hi,
Now I am more confused! You say "Therefore that weight stated in the vehicle owners hand book is the limit imposed, which may include rear passengers and luggage," I thought tow ball weight was just coming from the towed caravan not from the vehicle.
yobarr said
12:56 PM Aug 2, 2018
whitebeach wrote:
iana wrote:
I find those tow bar ball weight a bit bizarre, Its my thoughts, there is more to the story. I know that European vehicle manufacturers do not like the higher ball weights, as it means a stronger rear suspension, and less comfort for the rear passengers. Therefore that weight stated in the vehicle owners hand book is the limit imposed, which may include rear passengers and luggage, plus a soft suspension. If the drawbar is the correct type made for that vehicle, its compliance plate should be labeled correctly. I would first speak to Land Rover, and to the tow bar manufacturer and clear this up, there has to be a sound reason for the two different figures.
Hi,
Now I am more confused! You say "Therefore that weight stated in the vehicle owners hand book is the limit imposed, which may include rear passengers and luggage," I thought tow ball weight was just coming from the towed caravan not from the vehicle.
Talk about confusing people! The towball weight is the weight imposed by trailer onto the cars towbar.Why some people persist in throwing Red Herrings into a discussion is beyond my comprehension.All the OP wants,I am sure,is a simple response to his question? Cheers
iana said
01:04 PM Aug 2, 2018
No, I mean't that the weight in the owners hand book would be a full load in the back of the vehicle as well as the 250kg tow ball weight. It may mean that a suspension up-grade is required. It does not make sense that there are two tow ball weights to work with. If you are confused, like I said go back to both vehicle and tow bar suppliers and get it sorted.
whitebeach said
01:24 PM Aug 2, 2018
iana wrote:
No, I mean't that the weight in the owners hand book would be a full load in the back of the vehicle as well as the 250kg tow ball weight. It may mean that a suspension up-grade is required. It does not make sense that there are two tow ball weights to work with. If you are confused, like I said go back to both vehicle and tow bar suppliers and get it sorted.
OK, well I might be alright if I have no luggage or rear seat passengers? LAnd Rover say 250 and Westfalia say 350, push comes to shove Land Rover with 250 wins!
rockylizard said
02:41 PM Aug 2, 2018
whitebeach wrote:
iana wrote:
No, I mean't that the weight in the owners hand book would be a full load in the back of the vehicle as well as the 250kg tow ball weight. It may mean that a suspension up-grade is required. It does not make sense that there are two tow ball weights to work with. If you are confused, like I said go back to both vehicle and tow bar suppliers and get it sorted.
OK, well I might be alright if I have no luggage or rear seat passengers? LAnd Rover say 250 and Westfalia say 350, push comes to shove Land Rover with 250 wins!
Gday...
Discussing weights on forums will always draw out comments/opinions that will (or may) cause some confusion. Everybody tries to provide as broad an opinion and advice as they can ... but usually with limited factual knowledge of a particular vehicle/van. We all just strive to be helpful.
It becomes an increasingly entertaining and drawn out series of posts when someone asks an electrical question, a solar question, a WDH question, or which is the best tow vehicle.
It is always best to read and know the contents of the owner's manual for each particular vehicle.
No matter what weight allowance is stamped on the towbar of a vehicle, it is what the manufacturer states in the owner's manual that is the pertinent figure.
If the manufacturer stipulates 100Kg as a maximum tow ball mass ... and a towbar is fitted with a rating of 800Kg ... the vehicle can ONLY have a tow ball mass of 100Kg. Common sense states that the vehicle is NOT capable of towing a trailer that would place 800Kg on the tow ball. However, it is perfectly safe (probably overkill) to have a tow bar rated to 800Kg and only use it to tow with 100Kg tow ball mass.
In your case, 250Kg is the stipulated maximum towball mass, with an allowed braked towing allowance of 3,500Kg.
The attached snip will detail the weights/numbers for your vehicle -
Hi Whitebeach
yes L322 RR Vogue, and when I bought the car I was told by my LL mechanic the tow ball weight was 350 kg but I may have miss heard so I am now digging out my hand book to check. I use the WWI tank pic as I am ex armoured corps.
iana said
03:31 PM Aug 2, 2018
Ok here is what I found with a little surfing and a small amount of effort. The Land Rover site has this statement:- Quote " Australia only: The nose weight must be a minimum of 7% of the gross caravan/trailer weight, up to a maximum of 250 kg. When using the detachable trailer hitch receiver, see FITTING THE DETACHABLE TRAILER HITCH RECEIVER (Australia only), the nose weight can be increased to 350 kg if the GVW is reduced by 200 kg"un-quote.
And again like I have said previous, don't take what we have to say on here as a legal statement, you should go and see the vehicle supplier for the information.
whitebeach said
03:46 PM Aug 2, 2018
rockylizard wrote:
whitebeach wrote:
iana wrote:
No, I mean't that the weight in the owners hand book would be a full load in the back of the vehicle as well as the 250kg tow ball weight. It may mean that a suspension up-grade is required. It does not make sense that there are two tow ball weights to work with. If you are confused, like I said go back to both vehicle and tow bar suppliers and get it sorted.
OK, well I might be alright if I have no luggage or rear seat passengers? LAnd Rover say 250 and Westfalia say 350, push comes to shove Land Rover with 250 wins!
Gday...
Discussing weights on forums will always draw out comments/opinions that will (or may) cause some confusion. Everybody tries to provide as broad an opinion and advice as they can ... but usually with limited factual knowledge of a particular vehicle/van. We all just strive to be helpful.
It becomes an increasingly entertaining and drawn out series of posts when someone asks an electrical question, a solar question, a WDH question, or which is the best tow vehicle.
It is always best to read and know the contents of the owner's manual for each particular vehicle.
No matter what weight allowance is stamped on the towbar of a vehicle, it is what the manufacturer states in the owner's manual that is the pertinent figure.
If the manufacturer stipulates 100Kg as a maximum tow ball mass ... and a towbar is fitted with a rating of 800Kg ... the vehicle can ONLY have a tow ball mass of 100Kg. Common sense states that the vehicle is NOT capable of towing a trailer that would place 800Kg on the tow ball. However, it is perfectly safe (probably overkill) to have a tow bar rated to 800Kg and only use it to tow with 100Kg tow ball mass.
In your case, 250Kg is the stipulated maximum towball mass, with an allowed braked towing allowance of 3,500Kg.
The attached snip will detail the weights/numbers for your vehicle -
cheers - John
Thanks. Yes I have seen these specs. A bit odd one would think that on the one hand one can tow 3500 but only have a ball of 250. Maybe the engineers made a mistake when putting in these figures on day one. The L322 is a big and heavy vehicle, as big and as heavy as a Landcruiser. Why the low ball weight? A mystery.
Warren-Pat_01 said
12:03 AM Aug 3, 2018
whitebeach, I always wonder of another mystery too - the differences between a GU 4.2L manual Patrol & its equivalent Land Cruiser. Nissan's bearings & gearbox unit are larger, heavier (& dearer) than Toyota's but the Toyota's GVM is higher than the Patrol's.
Manufacturers are mysterious creatures! Perhaps they are being cautious & so ensuring we don't wreck our vehicles.
You'll find other recent posts on what people can tow - the Pajero & Navara are two that come to mind. They can "Tow" highish weights BUT the Tow Ball Mass must be reduced!
whitebeach said
02:41 PM Aug 4, 2018
iana wrote:
Ok here is what I found with a little surfing and a small amount of effort. The Land Rover site has this statement:- Quote " Australia only: The nose weight must be a minimum of 7% of the gross caravan/trailer weight, up to a maximum of 250 kg. When using the detachable trailer hitch receiver, see FITTING THE DETACHABLE TRAILER HITCH RECEIVER (Australia only), the nose weight can be increased to 350 kg if the GVW is reduced by 200 kg"un-quote.
And again like I have said previous, don't take what we have to say on here as a legal statement, you should go and see the vehicle supplier for the information.
So that means if I don't have rear passengers etc (that equal 200 kg) I would be able to have 350Kg on the ball? Where did you find this quote FITTING....etc?
-- Edited by whitebeach on Saturday 4th of August 2018 02:52:04 PM
iana said
02:56 PM Aug 4, 2018
Like I said, that quote is copied direct from the Land Rover site, I don't know anything about the hitches etc. on Land Rovers. But it seems to me you just leave 200kg out of the vehicle.
What is GVW?
The Gross Vehicle Weight (GVW) is the maximum operating weight of a vehicle as specified by the manufacturer including the vehicle's chassis, body, engine, engine fluids, fuel, accessories, driver, passengers and cargo but excluding that of any trailers.
The Gross Vehicle Weight (GVW) is sometimes referred to as the Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) or Gross Vehicle Mass (GVM)
aussie_paul said
04:19 PM Aug 4, 2018
iana wrote:
Like I said, that quote is copied direct from the Land Rover site, I don't know anything about the hitches etc. on Land Rovers. But it seems to me you just leave 200kg out of the vehicle.
What is GVW? The Gross Vehicle Weight (GVW) is the maximum operating weight of a vehicle as specified by the manufacturer including the vehicle's chassis, body, engine, engine fluids, fuel, accessories, driver, passengers and cargo but excluding that of any trailers. The Gross Vehicle Weight (GVW) is sometimes referred to as the Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) or Gross Vehicle Mass (GVM)
Bloody annoying when common terminology is not used. Don't get me started on non national road rules etc.
Aussie Paul.
PeterD said
04:49 PM Aug 4, 2018
iana wrote:
Ok here is what I found with a little surfing and a small amount of effort. The Land Rover site has this statement:- Quote " Australia only: The nose weight must be a minimum of 7% of the gross caravan/trailer weight, up to a maximum of 250 kg. When using the detachable trailer hitch receiver, see FITTING THE DETACHABLE TRAILER HITCH RECEIVER (Australia only), the nose weight can be increased to 350 kg if the GVW is reduced by 200 kg"un-quote.
And again like I have said previous, don't take what we have to say on here as a legal statement, you should go and see the vehicle supplier for the information.
Which model of Land Rover Range Rover vogue are you referring to? If you look t the table in Rocky's table you will see one model with a 250 kg max ball weight. If you look at the complete document that he copied that table form you will see another few in the same boat. There are specific loadings as the ones you quoted with the maximum ball weight of 250kg.
Land Rover print specific handbooks for their Oz models. There are significant differences with the handbooks printed for other markets. The OP would have been looking at the figures in the HB that came with his specific model.
Hi All,
I have a Jurgens Travado with a tow ball weight of 280 kilos. With gas bottles etc this is taking my tow ball weight beyond my tug's recommended tow ball weight. The spare tyre on the Travado is forward of the axles. Has anyone moved this to the rear of the van and would it take some tow ball weight off?
Cheers
BB
BB is right about the distabilising effect but I'd suggest with so much towball weight the spare at the rear wont upset things too much...just my view. Tony
Jonathan, What is your tow vehicle?
A van with an ATM of 3,000 kg should have a tow ball weight approaching that value. I would not suggest you reduce it by much. I note from the manufacturers brochure that the unladen ball weight is 280 kg, what is the loaded ball weight? What are you attempting to reduce it to?
We had to do some juggling to achieve a reasonable tow ball weight.
We always travel with at least half a tank of water (tank is behind axle).
We leave our front boot empty & put the gear in the tub of our ute.
Our portable solar panels (15kg) & outdoor table sit on the floor near the rear double bed cushioned by foam rubber.
Our ball weight is 150-170kg.
Hi,
My tug is a Land Rover Range Rover vogue (L322). It has confusing stats re tow ball. Land Rover says 250 kg tow ball but I have a plate on the tow bracket saying 350 kg. I have ordered a tow ball weight scale but am anxious at looking at the result!
Hi Whitebeach
I have the same tug as you and I have always been lead to believe the tow ball weight as being 350kg, having said that my caravan is 21ft and has a tow ball weight of 240kg, I have my spare wheel on the back and 2 x 9kg gas bottles at the front with 1 x house battery in the front boot. The car tows the van with no problems and does its own self leveling thing, my only issue is that sucking feeling of the van by big trucks as they pass me. Sorry should have mentioned 200lt of water on board front tank is just forward of vans wheels.
-- Edited by gonfishen on Thursday 2nd of August 2018 09:01:38 AM
Two points:- The 350kg is perhaps the rating of the actual towbar,but bolting it to a car that is rated at 250kg towing negates that,making it overkill?
Beware towball scales.I gave tried two types,and both were hopelessly inaccurate when used after, and before,a true weighing with bathroom scales,one brand having a 70kg discrepancy...too light.Just saying.
-- Edited by yobarr on Thursday 2nd of August 2018 10:36:35 AM
I would first speak to Land Rover, and to the tow bar manufacturer and clear this up, there has to be a sound reason for the two different figures.
Hi gonfishen, why do you believe your tow ball weight is 350K. Do you have a L322?
ps why the 1st WW tank on your pic? My great grandfather was in WW1
Hi,
Now I am more confused! You say "Therefore that weight stated in the vehicle owners hand book is the limit imposed, which may include rear passengers and luggage," I thought tow ball weight was just coming from the towed caravan not from the vehicle.
Talk about confusing people! The towball weight is the weight imposed by trailer onto the cars towbar.Why some people persist in throwing Red Herrings into a discussion is beyond my comprehension.All the OP wants,I am sure,is a simple response to his question? Cheers
OK, well I might be alright if I have no luggage or rear seat passengers? LAnd Rover say 250 and Westfalia say 350, push comes to shove Land Rover with 250 wins!
Gday...
Discussing weights on forums will always draw out comments/opinions that will (or may) cause some confusion. Everybody tries to provide as broad an opinion and advice as they can ... but usually with limited factual knowledge of a particular vehicle/van. We all just strive to be helpful.
It becomes an increasingly entertaining and drawn out series of posts when someone asks an electrical question, a solar question, a WDH question, or which is the best tow vehicle.
It is always best to read and know the contents of the owner's manual for each particular vehicle.
No matter what weight allowance is stamped on the towbar of a vehicle, it is what the manufacturer states in the owner's manual that is the pertinent figure.
If the manufacturer stipulates 100Kg as a maximum tow ball mass ... and a towbar is fitted with a rating of 800Kg ... the vehicle can ONLY have a tow ball mass of 100Kg. Common sense states that the vehicle is NOT capable of towing a trailer that would place 800Kg on the tow ball. However, it is perfectly safe (probably overkill) to have a tow bar rated to 800Kg and only use it to tow with 100Kg tow ball mass.
In your case, 250Kg is the stipulated maximum towball mass, with an allowed braked towing allowance of 3,500Kg.
The attached snip will detail the weights/numbers for your vehicle -
cheers - John
yes L322 RR Vogue, and when I bought the car I was told by my LL mechanic the tow ball weight was 350 kg but I may have miss heard so I am now digging out my hand book to check. I use the WWI tank pic as I am ex armoured corps.
And again like I have said previous, don't take what we have to say on here as a legal statement, you should go and see the vehicle supplier for the information.
Thanks. Yes I have seen these specs. A bit odd one would think that on the one hand one can tow 3500 but only have a ball of 250. Maybe the engineers made a mistake when putting in these figures on day one. The L322 is a big and heavy vehicle, as big and as heavy as a Landcruiser. Why the low ball weight? A mystery.
Manufacturers are mysterious creatures! Perhaps they are being cautious & so ensuring we don't wreck our vehicles.
You'll find other recent posts on what people can tow - the Pajero & Navara are two that come to mind. They can "Tow" highish weights BUT the Tow Ball Mass must be reduced!
-- Edited by whitebeach on Saturday 4th of August 2018 02:52:04 PM
What is GVW?
The Gross Vehicle Weight (GVW) is the maximum operating weight of a vehicle as specified by the manufacturer including the vehicle's chassis, body, engine, engine fluids, fuel, accessories, driver, passengers and cargo but excluding that of any trailers.
The Gross Vehicle Weight (GVW) is sometimes referred to as the Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) or Gross Vehicle Mass (GVM)
Bloody annoying when common terminology is not used.
Don't get me started on non national road rules etc.
Aussie Paul.
Which model of Land Rover Range Rover vogue are you referring to? If you look t the table in Rocky's table you will see one model with a 250 kg max ball weight. If you look at the complete document that he copied that table form you will see another few in the same boat. There are specific loadings as the ones you quoted with the maximum ball weight of 250kg.
Land Rover print specific handbooks for their Oz models. There are significant differences with the handbooks printed for other markets. The OP would have been looking at the figures in the HB that came with his specific model.