I have often wondered, who pays for the ambulance, if you, or I, the so called patient, have an incident (minor) and someone calls the ambulance, but you or I don't require their help or assistance. In other words you didn't call it, and are quite capable of treating and being moved by your own car to where ever without outside assistance.
Dougwe said
10:28 AM Jul 22, 2018
VERY Interesting topic Ian. I will keep an eagle eye on the replies you get back.
Me, I am on the understanding if you get 'loaded' into the back of an ambulance and 'carted off', then payment is due by the patient not the caller. That's the way it should be IMO. I would like to think if I called an ambulance for someone else that I wouldn't get the charge on me. If I did get charged then I and many others would probably think twice before calling an ambulance for someone in the street. Shame if it gets to that.
I have full ambulance VIC cover by my membership to them and have been told by them that I am covered all over Australia, land water or air. I have had ambulance cover since it started way back when. Even when I was a self funded retiree I kept my membership paid up even though I had a health care card and was told that covered it. I was happy to pay my 'single' mebership as IMO it was cheap cover for peace of mind.
Now that I am a single age pensioner I have been told I am covered for the same things as a Pensioner and don't need my membership anymore but would still be more than happy to keep paying for my membership if it was best.
Ambo's do a great job and are special people. Well done all ambo's.
As I said, I look forward to the replies you get.
Keep Safe on the roads and out there.
-- Edited by Dougwe on Sunday 22nd of July 2018 10:51:20 AM
KAT3 said
10:29 AM Jul 22, 2018
Hi, you may find what you are looking for here. Private cover and Concession card holder cover.
Good Morning Dougwe, thankyou for the input. I feel you have become a bit shy of late, and am missing your cherry posts. And KAT3 that is not what I am talking about. I am saying that suppose you twist, or even break your ankle, one can easily drive to the doctors/hospital in your own car, in fact it sounds as though many call for ambulance assistance is not necessary. So if the ambulance rocks up, and you or your close friends attending your delema did not ask for it, are you obliged to pay for it.
Dougwe said
10:56 AM Jul 22, 2018
Mate, there are a lot on board these day's that like to shoot ya down so a need to tread carefully. On a very rare time I might slip myself
BACK ON TOPIC!
GO AMBO'S
Desert Dweller said
11:00 AM Jul 22, 2018
We dropped our Victorian Ambulance cover when we qualified for a part Aged Pension. Free ambulance in Victoria.
We recently looked into whether we were covered in other States. Almost every State is different.
We're joining Victorian Ambulance again so that we're covered for all States. They have a reciprocal agreement with interstate ambulance services.
It was a mistake dropping it.
$92 per year for a family is cheap insurance when we could be up for thousands if we get sick or have an accident interstate.
KAT3 said
11:12 AM Jul 22, 2018
Sorry - didn't mean to offend.
Grandad5 said
11:25 AM Jul 22, 2018
I went looking for an answer to this and found the answer was, the patient is responsible. Sorry, I started following links after that and can't find the source again.
Now this is just opinion, but I think the reality would be that if you stated that you neither called for nor needed an ambulance then that would be the end of it. Having said that
The one time I called for an ambulance for someone else they asked my name, was I the patient, what relationship was I to the patient, was the patient conscious (he wasn't) etc etc. I strongly suspect that had I said he was conscious they would have asked to speak to him. Therefore, probably unlikely the scenario you describe would happen unless you really did need an ambulance
However, if you're like me, you probably want a more official answer.
Have you rung your state ambulance service and asked?
Jim
-- Edited by Grandad5 on Sunday 22nd of July 2018 11:28:28 AM
Dougwe said
11:38 AM Jul 22, 2018
KAT3 wrote:
Sorry - didn't mean to offend.
You didn't KAT3. Not me anyway.
iana said
11:40 AM Jul 22, 2018
Thanks Jim, that's a better answer. No I haven't rang to find out, its not that important, but there are times when I watch the copper heading out, or see a rescue on TV with the chopper there and think that's a hell of an expense. I used to belong to a team that did mountain rescues in NZ, we had to make up stretchers out of timer sapplings and carry the patient out, or else the army chopper would come to a suitable clearing. I think I would be a bit annoyed if they arrived for me, and my concern was only minor.
villatranquilla said
11:49 AM Jul 22, 2018
I believe there was a story recently on 'A Current Affair' where someone (in Victoria) called an ambulance for somebody who refused to go with the ambos and then the ambulance service tried to bill the original caller. The person was persued through the debt collector but Ambulance Victoria then said 'a mistake' had been made and dropped the matter only after ACA intervened.
So I guess I'd be asking the person " do you need an ambulance" before making the call - providing they appeared capable of making a rational decision of course
dabbler said
11:55 AM Jul 22, 2018
Back in the days when QATB existed (now is QAS) and membership was by "subscription", advertising often stated the patient transported would be up for a bill of they weren't a subscriber.
Stretch60 said
12:22 PM Jul 22, 2018
I am in WA and learnt long ago to not give your name if calling ambulance for someone else !
Desert Dweller said
01:40 PM Jul 22, 2018
You must give your personal details if you ring 000 in Victoria. Police, Fire & Ambulance.
I rang to prevent a guy with a noose around his neck from stepping out of the tub of his ute & hanging himself from a tree.
I only gave them my name & they had my address before I could give it to them.
Mike Harding said
01:53 PM Jul 22, 2018
Even if you have a silent number it is still passed to 000 along with address details.
I understand they also receive the info. on mobile numbers but, of course, the address is of no immediate use however they can get cell triangulation data fairly easily but I don't know if that's automatic.
If it's important enough to call 000 (112) then just give your details and sort out the rest later. I think it is very, very unlikely the State is going to seek costs from a bystander who called an ambulance in good faith.
dogbox said
04:12 PM Jul 22, 2018
Mike Harding wrote:
Even if you have a silent number it is still passed to 000 along with address details.
I understand they also receive the info. on mobile numbers but, of course, the address is of no immediate use however they can get cell triangulation data fairly easily but I don't know if that's automatic.
If it's important enough to call 000 (112) then just give your details and sort out the rest later. I think it is very, very unlikely the State is going to seek costs from a bystander who called an ambulance in good faith.
they pass the debt to a collection agency and they don't care about the circumstances all they want is the money plus fees charges ect the state is out of the picture
-- Edited by dogbox on Sunday 22nd of July 2018 04:12:44 PM
Mike Harding said
04:31 PM Jul 22, 2018
dogbox wrote:
Mike Harding wrote:If it's important enough to call 000 (112) then just give your details and sort out the rest later. I think it is very, very unlikely the State is going to seek costs from a bystander who called an ambulance in good faith.
they pass the debt to a collection agency and they don't care about the circumstances all they want is the money plus fees charges ect the state is out of the picture
Debt collection businesses are not judge, jury and executioner - they are merely a commercial operation and need to be careful they do not step into defamation and/or harassment territory.
Get your MP involved and see what happens then.
rockylizard said
07:32 PM Jul 22, 2018
Gday...
These articles have been all over the news in recent days ...
Thanks John, that's a bit of an eye opener, enough to send everyone scrambling to read their insurance policies, and getting these points sorted out. Also it raises the question on patient transfer, for instance, can your friends pickup and deliver instead of using those services.
Quite obvious the charge can be either the caller or the patient. This subject is one which we all should be aware, for instance an ambulance (crew) is called, if it is deemed unnecessary, the caller should as soon as possible cancel the call.
It would appear this subject is an unknown can of worms, which I didn't really expect, but is worth while exposing it for our own good.
villatranquilla said
11:24 AM Jul 23, 2018
Desert Dweller wrote:
We dropped our Victorian Ambulance cover when we qualified for a part Aged Pension. Free ambulance in Victoria.
We recently looked into whether we were covered in other States. Almost every State is different.
We're joining Victorian Ambulance again so that we're covered for all States. They have a reciprocal agreement with interstate ambulance services.
It was a mistake dropping it.
$92 per year for a family is cheap insurance when we could be up for thousands if we get sick or have an accident interstate.
For Victorian residents Under the State Concession Scheme, eligible Victorians holding certain concession cards receive free clinically necessary ambulance coverage throughout Australia. In all cases, transport is provided to the nearest and most appropriate medical facility.
For the purpose of ambulance transport, the Concession classification includes: a person holding a current Victorian Pensioner Concession Card (includes dependent children listed on the card but not spouses) a current Health Care Card holder and their dependents including spouses listed on the card (does not include Health Care Card for carer allowance and foster care issued in the name of the child) a child holding a current Child Disability Health Care Card or Foster Child Health Care Card, but not their guardians/families listed on the card a child under a Family reunification, Care by Secretary or Long-term care order including children on interim accommodation orders a person who is subject to an order under the Mental Health Act 2014, Sentencing Act 1991, or Crimes (Mental Impairment and Unfitness to be Tried) Act 1997 requiring them to be compulsorily assessed or treated in a designated mental health service. This includes compulsory, security and forensic patients. asylum seekers who are clients of one of the 16 nominated agencies for asylum seeker support found here Ambulance Transport Payment Guidelines
Never be concern about calling an ambulance it's cheaper than a ride with the undertaker
moamajohn said
10:24 PM Jul 25, 2018
10 years ago I was at a caravan park having happy hour with a group of woman [as luck would have it they were policewoman ]and halfway thru a joke I was telling I blacked out ! 2hrs later I awoke in the air ambo flying to Melb.I arrived in hospital passed out again and the next day they told me I had burst a main artery and I would have died within 2 hrs of the passing out had I not attended hospital. I have a concession card too however I still choose to pay my ambo subs ! Cheers John
Tony Bev said
05:57 PM Jul 27, 2018
You always seem to bring up interesting topics, Ian So thanks for that
To add a bit more fuel to the fire.... My private health insurance, Hospital Benefit Fund (HBF), which has taken over my original private health insurance
Does not cover for Air Ambulance
I point out that in some (bitumen road), remote places, they send the Air Ambulance, as it is too far for the Road Ambulance
I shall be making enquiries on Monday
Below is a snip from their website
The Belmont Bear said
04:41 PM Jul 28, 2018
Iana that's an interesting question about who pays for an ambulance when you weren't the one that requested it and didn't require their assistance so I went and looked at the NSW Ambulance website. What they say is that they are obliged by the NSW government to charge for their services and the charges are broken into 3 areas 1) callout charge 2) treatment charge 3) a charge per km for transport. The patient is the one who will be responsible for paying the bill even if they didn't actually request the ambulance. Apparently they say that they have a scheme that if you are suffering from financial hardship and can't pay their bill you can then ask them for help. As soon as the ambulance arrives if you agree to let them check you over you will be up for the $700 treatment charge even if they don't think that transporting you is necessary or even if you refuse to go with them. NSW residents are subsidised by the NSW government and will only pay 51% of the charge when in this state up to a maximum of $6000, on the other hand non residents will be charged 100% with no set maximum. Not a problem if you are a pensioner or concession card holder (plus a few others that they listed ) but for anyone else make sure that you are paying into your own states ambulance service as I believe it covers you interstate as they probably just back charge each other...
Cheers
BB
iana said
08:35 PM Jul 28, 2018
Been doing a little reading, but have come down with the dreaded lurgy in the meantime, and have been taking it easy (er). There is some interesting reading to be had, my medical insurance will pay out for two trips in an ambulance, per year, that's a medical emergency. And how do you know its a medical emergency, the ambo officer decides at the time of arrival.
As Tony pointed out the insurance cover is only for road based services, this is about $1000 a trip, but service by a plane is about $4500, and a ride in the chopper will set you back $10,000.
St John state the user (patient) pays.
Craig1 said
09:23 PM Jul 28, 2018
We are currently " camped" right outside Townsville Hospital as support carers. the Chopper comes in 2-3 times a day or night. Great money at that rate.
Peter_n_Margaret said
11:06 AM Jul 29, 2018
I was once transported by the Royal Flying Doctor Service.
There was never an account of any kind.
Please support the RFDS.....
Cheers,
Peter
PeterInSa said
05:17 PM Jul 29, 2018
For SA residents with private health Care (and no SA Ambulance Cover... I understand) BUPA could be an option...
I do not work for Bupa, just a paid up member and there may be better alternatives available
Peter
AlanP said
04:31 PM Jul 30, 2018
In Tassie, St Luke's Health covers its members Australia wide.
Had a Canadian couple as visitors who crashed their rental car. Transported in separate ambulances to Launceston Hospital from Swansea. They both got bills for $1,900 plus - pays to have insurance!
I have often wondered, who pays for the ambulance, if you, or I, the so called patient, have an incident (minor) and someone calls the ambulance, but you or I don't require their help or assistance. In other words you didn't call it, and are quite capable of treating and being moved by your own car to where ever without outside assistance.
VERY Interesting topic Ian. I will keep an eagle eye on the replies you get back.
Me, I am on the understanding if you get 'loaded' into the back of an ambulance and 'carted off', then payment is due by the patient not the caller. That's the way it should be IMO. I would like to think if I called an ambulance for someone else that I wouldn't get the charge on me. If I did get charged then I and many others would probably think twice before calling an ambulance for someone in the street. Shame if it gets to that.
I have full ambulance VIC cover by my membership to them and have been told by them that I am covered all over Australia, land water or air. I have had ambulance cover since it started way back when. Even when I was a self funded retiree I kept my membership paid up even though I had a health care card and was told that covered it. I was happy to pay my 'single' mebership as IMO it was cheap cover for peace of mind.
Now that I am a single age pensioner I have been told I am covered for the same things as a Pensioner and don't need my membership anymore but would still be more than happy to keep paying for my membership if it was best.
Ambo's do a great job and are special people. Well done all ambo's.
As I said, I look forward to the replies you get.
Keep Safe on the roads and out there.
-- Edited by Dougwe on Sunday 22nd of July 2018 10:51:20 AM
Hi, you may find what you are looking for here. Private cover and Concession card holder cover.
https://www.finder.com.au/interstate-ambulance-cover
Kat
Mate, there are a lot on board these day's that like to shoot ya down so a need to tread carefully. On a very rare time I might slip myself
BACK ON TOPIC!
GO AMBO'S
We recently looked into whether we were covered in other States. Almost every State is different.
We're joining Victorian Ambulance again so that we're covered for all States. They have a reciprocal agreement with interstate ambulance services.
It was a mistake dropping it.
$92 per year for a family is cheap insurance when we could be up for thousands if we get sick or have an accident interstate.
I went looking for an answer to this and found the answer was, the patient is responsible.
Sorry, I started following links after that and can't find the source again.
Now this is just opinion, but I think the reality would be that if you stated that you neither called for nor needed an ambulance then that would be the end of it.
Having said that
The one time I called for an ambulance for someone else they asked my name, was I the patient, what relationship was I to the patient, was the patient conscious (he wasn't) etc etc.
I strongly suspect that had I said he was conscious they would have asked to speak to him.
Therefore, probably unlikely the scenario you describe would happen unless you really did need an ambulance
However, if you're like me, you probably want a more official answer.
Have you rung your state ambulance service and asked?
Jim
-- Edited by Grandad5 on Sunday 22nd of July 2018 11:28:28 AM
You didn't KAT3. Not me anyway.
So I guess I'd be asking the person " do you need an ambulance" before making the call - providing they appeared capable of making a rational decision of course
I rang to prevent a guy with a noose around his neck from stepping out of the tub of his ute & hanging himself from a tree.
I only gave them my name & they had my address before I could give it to them.
Even if you have a silent number it is still passed to 000 along with address details.
I understand they also receive the info. on mobile numbers but, of course, the address is of no immediate use however they can get cell triangulation data fairly easily but I don't know if that's automatic.
If it's important enough to call 000 (112) then just give your details and sort out the rest later. I think it is very, very unlikely the State is going to seek costs from a bystander who called an ambulance in good faith.
they pass the debt to a collection agency and they don't care about the circumstances all they want is the money plus fees charges ect the state is out of the picture
-- Edited by dogbox on Sunday 22nd of July 2018 04:12:44 PM
Debt collection businesses are not judge, jury and executioner - they are merely a commercial operation and need to be careful they do not step into defamation and/or harassment territory.
Get your MP involved and see what happens then.
Gday...
These articles have been all over the news in recent days ...
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-07-20/anxiety-and-confusion-over-ambulance-victoria-debt-collectors/10013276
https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/ambulance-victoria-sorry-good-samaritan-was-chased-by-debt-collectors-20180719-p4zsie.html
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-07-20/ambulance-victoria-announces-debt-collection-review/10019426
https://www.news.com.au/finance/money/costs/australias-shame-millions-of-dollars-in-unpaid-ambulance-bills/news-story/fc3ed486c238a3b7b07a52e28aa4b52f
Cheers - John
Quite obvious the charge can be either the caller or the patient. This subject is one which we all should be aware, for instance an ambulance (crew) is called, if it is deemed unnecessary, the caller should as soon as possible cancel the call.
It would appear this subject is an unknown can of worms, which I didn't really expect, but is worth while exposing it for our own good.
For Victorian residents
Under the State Concession Scheme, eligible Victorians holding certain concession cards receive free clinically necessary ambulance coverage throughout Australia. In all cases, transport is provided to the nearest and most appropriate medical facility.
For the purpose of ambulance transport, the Concession classification includes:
a person holding a current Victorian Pensioner Concession Card (includes dependent children listed on the card but not spouses)
a current Health Care Card holder and their dependents including spouses listed on the card (does not include Health Care Card for carer allowance and foster care issued in the name of the child)
a child holding a current Child Disability Health Care Card or Foster Child Health Care Card, but not their guardians/families listed on the card
a child under a Family reunification, Care by Secretary or Long-term care order including children on interim accommodation orders
a person who is subject to an order under the Mental Health Act 2014, Sentencing Act 1991, or Crimes (Mental Impairment and Unfitness to be Tried) Act 1997 requiring them to be compulsorily assessed or treated in a designated mental health service. This includes compulsory, security and forensic patients.
asylum seekers who are clients of one of the 16 nominated agencies for asylum seeker support found here Ambulance Transport Payment Guidelines
You always seem to bring up interesting topics, Ian
So thanks for that
To add a bit more fuel to the fire....
My private health insurance, Hospital Benefit Fund (HBF), which has taken over my original private health insurance
Does not cover for Air Ambulance
I point out that in some (bitumen road), remote places, they send the Air Ambulance, as it is too far for the Road Ambulance
I shall be making enquiries on Monday
Below is a snip from their website
Iana that's an interesting question about who pays for an ambulance when you weren't the one that requested it and didn't require their assistance so I went and looked at the NSW Ambulance website. What they say is that they are obliged by the NSW government to charge for their services and the charges are broken into 3 areas 1) callout charge 2) treatment charge 3) a charge per km for transport. The patient is the one who will be responsible for paying the bill even if they didn't actually request the ambulance. Apparently they say that they have a scheme that if you are suffering from financial hardship and can't pay their bill you can then ask them for help. As soon as the ambulance arrives if you agree to let them check you over you will be up for the $700 treatment charge even if they don't think that transporting you is necessary or even if you refuse to go with them. NSW residents are subsidised by the NSW government and will only pay 51% of the charge when in this state up to a maximum of $6000, on the other hand non residents will be charged 100% with no set maximum. Not a problem if you are a pensioner or concession card holder (plus a few others that they listed ) but for anyone else make sure that you are paying into your own states ambulance service as I believe it covers you interstate as they probably just back charge each other...
Cheers
BB
As Tony pointed out the insurance cover is only for road based services, this is about $1000 a trip, but service by a plane is about $4500, and a ride in the chopper will set you back $10,000.
St John state the user (patient) pays.
There was never an account of any kind.
Please support the RFDS.....
Cheers,
Peter
www.bupa.com.au/health-insurance/ambulance-cover
I do not work for Bupa, just a paid up member and there may be better alternatives available
Peter