"My Health Record" and the attempt to computerise our health data
Mike Harding said
12:57 PM Jul 16, 2018
Today is the first day of the three month period during which you can opt out of having your health records stored on a central database and accessible by (I think it is) 12,600 people. If you don't opt out your records will be automatically included sometime after 16th October 2018. If you subsequently opt out your records will remain on the database although it's not clear who will be able to access them.
Whilst there is an obvious benefit, especially to travellers, of having a centralised record I do not trust government (or any company for that matter) to ensure my data is safe, secure and only accessible by the people I would approve of (medicos).
Of course others may also view our data: the police certainly and I'm not sure about the ATO and other organisations?
I'm still giving it consideration but I think I'm going to opt out - what do others think?
Edit: Go here for information: https://www.myhealthrecord.gov.au/
And here to opt out: https://www.myhealthrecord.gov.au/for-you-your-family/opt-out-my-health-record
-- Edited by Mike Harding on Monday 16th of July 2018 12:59:27 PM
Warren-Pat_01 said
02:56 PM Jul 16, 2018
Thanks Mike,
Personally I think it's a good idea as we have specific health issues & we travel a lot - but do I trust the government? They pretty well know all about us via Centrelink, Medicare anyway.
My main issues are having that info hacked by overseas mobs & what they learn about us. One only has to look at the fiasco that was the new ASIO building in Canberra - a Chinese based electrical company wired it up electrically (& MORE) & the building remained empty for quite some time as its secrets shifted to China!
Cupie said
04:11 PM Jul 16, 2018
I have just finished creating a 'My Health' record. It is now one of the options that I can click on at the My Gov site.
There is not much data on the record yet but I'll be watching as the 'implementation' progresses to see what it is populated with... Another item on my list for the next Doctor's visit too. I suppose that his office will have to upload stuff from his records system. I wonder how that works.
I believe that the Govt thru ATO, Medicare, PBS, et al already have lots of data on me along with a range of other stuff held by Google, Ebay, PayPal etc. It's very difficult to live in today's society without leaving a data trail that can be exploited/used by a vast range of goodies & baddies.
At least with this scheme there may be some advantage in it for me.
So, I'm an opt in.
-- Edited by Cupie on Monday 16th of July 2018 04:12:44 PM
Kebbin said
04:12 PM Jul 16, 2018
Hello Mike,can you post the source for the 12600 people gawking at your health records comes from?
Desert Dweller said
04:27 PM Jul 16, 2018
We see having our medical records freely available to health professionals all over the country as an asset.
Big brother knows all about us anyway so it's not an issue if someone hacks into my records & finds out that I suffer with piles.
Yuglamron said
04:50 PM Jul 16, 2018
I think people will be appalled if they knew how much info is actually held on them around the world.
Not just here in Australia but even companies that produce the pills you are prescribed by your doctor and have your prescription filled at a pharmacy. The Big pharmaceutical company gets records of use from all over the world.
That's just one instance.
The myriad of other companies who hold records about you are enormous.
It's the world we live in and opting out is very hard to do.
Mike Harding said
05:59 PM Jul 16, 2018
Kebbin wrote:
Hello Mike,can you post the source for the 12600 people gawking at your health records comes from?
Does it matter whether it 4900, 18700 or 12600? I think I heard (St) Jon Faine on 774 quote it:
The disabling of you record can be overridden, and will be used by criminals.
It will be easier for criminals to access health data , since now they will know where it is .
Breaches are inevitable.
-- Edited by PeterX on Monday 16th of July 2018 07:34:38 PM
Kebbin said
07:52 PM Jul 16, 2018
It obviously doesn't matter to some to tell porky's and to be hysteric but others like to be informed correctly on such matters.
Mike Harding said
08:28 PM Jul 16, 2018
Hello Kebbin - can you post the source for the lies and hysteria to which you refer?
PeterX said
01:57 AM Jul 17, 2018
There has already been attacks on My Gov to get peoples credentials.
Weakest part of My Health is at the fringes, examples Doctors surgery and hospitals, At a hospital there will be terminals everywhere.
Its not like a bank where the teller is mostly physically separated from the customer.
Also consider this , health data is the most prized data and sells for most dollars by hackers.
Most people have no idea about how data is obtained and sold by hackers.
Cupie said
07:46 AM Jul 17, 2018
PeterX wrote:
There has already been attacks on My Gov to get peoples credentials.
Weakest part of My Health is at the fringes, examples Doctors surgery and hospitals, At a hospital there will be terminals everywhere.
Its not like a bank where the teller is mostly physically separated from the customer.
Also consider this , health data is the most prized data and sells for most dollars by hackers.
Most people have no idea about how data is obtained and sold by hackers.
Peter ..
Thanks for that.
Seems like a real 'risk' to individual records but how will illegal access to, or use of terminals facilitate stealing of bulk records?
Where is the profit in access to medical records, other than 'marketing' et al of health products and what is the personal risk/loss to individuals whose record is accessed?
I for one don't really care if it is known that I have certain heart issues, haemochromatosis, diverticular disease & have had cataract operations. Might be a bit pissed off if I had STDs & that became public though. Were I a public figure I might be a bit more protective of my personal info.
I am more protective of my financial situation data rather than my health history. Is that a personal or perhaps social weakness?
Edit 2..
Just saw this on one of my daily newspapers .. worth reading.......
-- Edited by Cupie on Tuesday 17th of July 2018 07:47:12 AM
-- Edited by Cupie on Tuesday 17th of July 2018 07:51:21 AM
dorian said
08:01 AM Jul 17, 2018
For a long time I have been arguing for some kind of health record to be recorded on the magnetic stripe of our Medicare cards. For example, the card could alert ambulance and medical staff to a patient's allergies, medications, surgical history, etc.
Grandad5 said
09:37 AM Jul 17, 2018
Wasn't this discussed some time ago Dorian? I'm thinking as far back as Keating maybe? I can't remember what the arguments against the idea were. Do you remember? I always thought the idea had merit as well. Jim
homealone said
10:16 AM Jul 17, 2018
I use a (paid for) VPN which I believe will prevent many Hackers. I do not connect thru Oz.
dorian said
10:49 AM Jul 17, 2018
Grandad5 wrote:
Wasn't this discussed some time ago Dorian? I'm thinking as far back as Keating maybe? I can't remember what the arguments against the idea were. Do you remember?
Sorry, "bad memory" would be one of the first entries in my medical record.
dogbox said
10:50 AM Jul 17, 2018
Cupie wrote:
PeterX wrote:
There has already been attacks on My Gov to get peoples credentials.
Weakest part of My Health is at the fringes, examples Doctors surgery and hospitals, At a hospital there will be terminals everywhere.
Its not like a bank where the teller is mostly physically separated from the customer.
Also consider this , health data is the most prized data and sells for most dollars by hackers.
Most people have no idea about how data is obtained and sold by hackers.
Peter ..
Thanks for that.
Seems like a real 'risk' to individual records but how will illegal access to, or use of terminals facilitate stealing of bulk records?
Where is the profit in access to medical records, other than 'marketing' et al of health products and what is the personal risk/loss to individuals whose record is accessed?
I for one don't really care if it is known that I have certain heart issues, haemochromatosis, diverticular disease & have had cataract operations. Might be a bit pissed off if I had STDs & that became public though. Were I a public figure I might be a bit more protective of my personal info.
I am more protective of my financial situation data rather than my health history. Is that a personal or perhaps social weakness?
Edit 2..
Just saw this on one of my daily newspapers .. worth reading.......
-- Edited by Cupie on Tuesday 17th of July 2018 07:47:12 AM
-- Edited by Cupie on Tuesday 17th of July 2018 07:51:21 AM
I would have thought that by having all your medicare information accessing your financial information would be a lot easier. they can steal your identity by accessing your mail box. the amount of information we give out without realising it is unbelievable as it is!
dorian said
10:55 AM Jul 17, 2018
If it's good enough for my dog, maybe it's OK for me?
I use a (paid for) VPN which I believe will prevent many Hackers. I do not connect thru Oz.
My Kaspersky Security has that (sort of) security option but I am a bit worried about all my data often going via Russian servers. I think that they are the greater risk.
Cupie said
01:35 PM Jul 17, 2018
dorian wrote:
Grandad5 wrote:
Wasn't this discussed some time ago Dorian? I'm thinking as far back as Keating maybe? I can't remember what the arguments against the idea were. Do you remember?
Sorry, "bad memory" would be one of the first entries in my medical record.
Was that 'The Australia Card' idea? All the Privacy Freaks sunk that one.
Grandad5 said
08:03 AM Jul 18, 2018
Cupie wrote:
Was that 'The Australia Card' idea? All the Privacy Freaks sunk that one.
Yes, that was the time I was referring to.
I have a vague memory the Medicare card option was also floated. (I have the same memory problem that Dorian complained of)
An interesting aside of that Australia Card debacle that I've heard from several sources (Which doesn't necessarily mean its true) is that the whole Australia Card thing was a red herring leaked by Keating. While everybody was arguing about that issue he very quietly set up the data matching complex somewhere in Canberra. Once that was up and running he 'changed hos mind" about the Australia card.
Now, like I said, just because a few people tell you something, doesn't necessarily mean its correct. But the first step in hearing any story like this is to apply the logic test. Does it logically sound feasible? And I have to admit, it does sound like something Keating would do.
Anyway, back to medicare card and health records.
I have no problem with somebody accessing my health records and I think the odds of it happening are small.
And, I think the medicare card idea should have been investigated further.
Jim
The Belmont Bear said
09:48 AM Jul 18, 2018
Last week I posted in the I digress section that I was surprised by the strange questions that my bank had asked me when I made an ordinary over the counter withdrawal. They wanted to know if I had any overseas tax liabilities - at the time I thought that even if I did it was really none of their buisness as that type of info should be between myself and the ATO not some 3rd party. Yesterday I received my annual statement for a self funded income stream which in the foot note said that a copy of my details had also been forwarded to both the ATO and Centrelink. Again I can understand the ATO as it's considered to be income but I have never in my life had any dealings with the other mob so until I do my financial information should also be off limits to them. People were kidding themselves if they thought that by rejecting the Australia Card it would prevent the government from gaining acess to all of their personal information. Probably like most of the general population I don't really have anything to hide so the fact that the govenment has my info isn't really the issue the concern is how secure that personal data is. I guess it's too late worrying about it now they have been getting this information by stealth ever since we entered the computer age.
Cheers BB
-- Edited by The Belmont Bear on Wednesday 18th of July 2018 09:50:15 AM
Possum3 said
09:52 AM Jul 18, 2018
You will most probably find that may of the anti data people are already at a greater security risk owing to DNA testing by my heritage and similar organisations that "Match" families through previous generations using a DNA probability matrix developed by the organisation in the USA. At best their matching is a parlour trick at the worst a dangerous use of the collected information library. This information can/could/will be used to determine health risk profiles which could adversely effect insurance rates etc. back to the OP topic; The Australian Govt (and perhaps others) already has all the basic health information on all citizens loosely held in ATO and Centerlink data bases - the current proposal to allow medico's access to the already held information which could improve the health outlook for many people. If this really upsets anyone they can opt out at any time - let's just hope that they never need the Medical Information in a life threatening situation whilst away from their local GP.
Desert Dweller said
11:34 AM Jul 18, 2018
If you're not doing anything of a criminal nature & paying your taxes, who cares what the government knows about you.
Our files would make boring reading.
aussie_paul said
01:22 PM Jul 18, 2018
Desert Dweller wrote:
If you're not doing anything of a criminal nature & paying your taxes, who cares what the government knows about you.
Our files would make boring reading.
YES!!!!!!!!!
Aussie Paul.
Cupie said
04:00 PM Jul 18, 2018
Grandad5 wrote:
Cupie wrote:
Was that 'The Australia Card' idea? All the Privacy Freaks sunk that one.
Yes, that was the time I was referring to.
I have a vague memory the Medicare card option was also floated. (I have the same memory problem that Dorian complained of)
An interesting aside of that Australia Card debacle that I've heard from several sources (Which doesn't necessarily mean its true) is that the whole Australia Card thing was a red herring leaked by Keating. While everybody was arguing about that issue he very quietly set up the data matching complex somewhere in Canberra. Once that was up and running he 'changed hos mind" about the Australia card.
Now, like I said, just because a few people tell you something, doesn't necessarily mean its correct. But the first step in hearing any story like this is to apply the logic test. Does it logically sound feasible? And I have to admit, it does sound like something Keating would do.
Anyway, back to medicare card and health records.
I have no problem with somebody accessing my health records and I think the odds of it happening are small.
And, I think the medicare card idea should have been investigated further.
Jim
Now you're not suggesting that our great exPM Pauly, the clock loving pig farmer, would throw out a straw man to distract attention are you?
Gee I miss that guy from our political arena. Such a sharp wit & cutting tongue. As well, his lot along with RJH got on with nation building rather than divisive self interest politicking.
Just look how far our working class have fallen since their going. But we have lots more Billionaires these days.
delapan said
12:40 PM Jul 19, 2018
The problem i have with i it is thr fact that is NOT a complete health record, only bits and pieces uploaded to your file....
jerji said
08:15 PM Jul 20, 2018
I work in cyber security and I know that although the Government claims that the system is secure there are many issues remaining. I won't go into technical details (you can look around the net for various technical comments), but I will say that I have already opted out (within an hour of being able to).
-- Edited by jerji on Friday 20th of July 2018 08:15:36 PM
Mike Harding said
08:00 AM Jul 21, 2018
I think it is a certainty that all data on this website is insecure and will, sooner or later, be hacked and misused and probably placed into the public domain.
From today's BBC News website: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-44900507
Today is the first day of the three month period during which you can opt out of having your health records stored on a central database and accessible by (I think it is) 12,600 people. If you don't opt out your records will be automatically included sometime after 16th October 2018. If you subsequently opt out your records will remain on the database although it's not clear who will be able to access them.
Whilst there is an obvious benefit, especially to travellers, of having a centralised record I do not trust government (or any company for that matter) to ensure my data is safe, secure and only accessible by the people I would approve of (medicos).
Of course others may also view our data: the police certainly and I'm not sure about the ATO and other organisations?
I'm still giving it consideration but I think I'm going to opt out - what do others think?
Edit:
Go here for information:
https://www.myhealthrecord.gov.au/
And here to opt out:
https://www.myhealthrecord.gov.au/for-you-your-family/opt-out-my-health-record
-- Edited by Mike Harding on Monday 16th of July 2018 12:59:27 PM
Thanks Mike,
Personally I think it's a good idea as we have specific health issues & we travel a lot - but do I trust the government? They pretty well know all about us via Centrelink, Medicare anyway.
My main issues are having that info hacked by overseas mobs & what they learn about us. One only has to look at the fiasco that was the new ASIO building in Canberra - a Chinese based electrical company wired it up electrically (& MORE) & the building remained empty for quite some time as its secrets shifted to China!
I have just finished creating a 'My Health' record. It is now one of the options that I can click on at the My Gov site.
There is not much data on the record yet but I'll be watching as the 'implementation' progresses to see what it is populated with... Another item on my list for the next Doctor's visit too. I suppose that his office will have to upload stuff from his records system. I wonder how that works.
I believe that the Govt thru ATO, Medicare, PBS, et al already have lots of data on me along with a range of other stuff held by Google, Ebay, PayPal etc. It's very difficult to live in today's society without leaving a data trail that can be exploited/used by a vast range of goodies & baddies.
At least with this scheme there may be some advantage in it for me.
So, I'm an opt in.
-- Edited by Cupie on Monday 16th of July 2018 04:12:44 PM
Hello Mike,can you post the source for the 12600 people gawking at your health records comes from?
We see having our medical records freely available to health professionals all over the country as an asset.
Big brother knows all about us anyway so it's not an issue if someone hacks into my records & finds out that I suffer with piles.
I think people will be appalled if they knew how much info is actually held on them around the world.
Not just here in Australia but even companies that produce the pills you are prescribed by your doctor and have your prescription filled at a pharmacy. The Big pharmaceutical company gets records of use from all over the world.
That's just one instance.
The myriad of other companies who hold records about you are enormous.
It's the world we live in and opting out is very hard to do.
Does it matter whether it 4900, 18700 or 12600? I think I heard (St) Jon Faine on 774 quote it:
https://www.businessinsider.com.au/my-health-record-privacy-doctors-support-2018-7
Id like to know who owns it ? If I wanted it removed , could that be done .?
https://www.smh.com.au/technology/why-i-m-opting-out-of-the-government-s-digital-health-record-and-you-should-too-20180715-p4zrna.html
Interesting article , by a respected IT reporter.
Mentions 900k people will have access.
The disabling of you record can be overridden, and will be used by criminals.
It will be easier for criminals to access health data , since now they will know where it is .
Breaches are inevitable.
-- Edited by PeterX on Monday 16th of July 2018 07:34:38 PM
It obviously doesn't matter to some to tell porky's and to be hysteric but others like to be informed correctly on such matters.
Hello Kebbin - can you post the source for the lies and hysteria to which you refer?
There has already been attacks on My Gov to get peoples credentials.
Weakest part of My Health is at the fringes, examples Doctors surgery and hospitals, At a hospital there will be terminals everywhere.
Its not like a bank where the teller is mostly physically separated from the customer.
Also consider this , health data is the most prized data and sells for most dollars by hackers.
Most people have no idea about how data is obtained and sold by hackers.
Peter ..
Thanks for that.
Seems like a real 'risk' to individual records but how will illegal access to, or use of terminals facilitate stealing of bulk records?
Where is the profit in access to medical records, other than 'marketing' et al of health products and what is the personal risk/loss to individuals whose record is accessed?
I for one don't really care if it is known that I have certain heart issues, haemochromatosis, diverticular disease & have had cataract operations. Might be a bit pissed off if I had STDs & that became public though. Were I a public figure I might be a bit more protective of my personal info.
I am more protective of my financial situation data rather than my health history. Is that a personal or perhaps social weakness?
Edit 2..
Just saw this on one of my daily newspapers .. worth reading.......
https://thenewdaily.com.au/life/wellbeing/2018/07/16/my-health-record-myths/?utm_source=Adestra&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Morning%20News%2020180717
-- Edited by Cupie on Tuesday 17th of July 2018 07:47:12 AM
-- Edited by Cupie on Tuesday 17th of July 2018 07:51:21 AM
For a long time I have been arguing for some kind of health record to be recorded on the magnetic stripe of our Medicare cards. For example, the card could alert ambulance and medical staff to a patient's allergies, medications, surgical history, etc.
Wasn't this discussed some time ago Dorian? I'm thinking as far back as Keating maybe? I can't remember what the arguments against the idea were. Do you remember? I always thought the idea had merit as well. Jim
Sorry, "bad memory" would be one of the first entries in my medical record.
I would have thought that by having all your medicare information accessing your financial information would be a lot easier. they can steal your identity by accessing your mail box. the amount of information we give out without realising it is unbelievable as it is!
If it's good enough for my dog, maybe it's OK for me?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microchip_implant_(human)
My Kaspersky Security has that (sort of) security option but I am a bit worried about all my data often going via Russian servers. I think that they are the greater risk.
Was that 'The Australia Card' idea? All the Privacy Freaks sunk that one.
Yes, that was the time I was referring to.
I have a vague memory the Medicare card option was also floated. (I have the same memory problem that Dorian complained of)
An interesting aside of that Australia Card debacle that I've heard from several sources (Which doesn't necessarily mean its true) is that the whole Australia Card thing was a red herring leaked by Keating.
While everybody was arguing about that issue he very quietly set up the data matching complex somewhere in Canberra. Once that was up and running he 'changed hos mind" about the Australia card.
Now, like I said, just because a few people tell you something, doesn't necessarily mean its correct. But the first step in hearing any story like this is to apply the logic test. Does it logically sound feasible? And I have to admit, it does sound like something Keating would do.
Anyway, back to medicare card and health records.
I have no problem with somebody accessing my health records and I think the odds of it happening are small.
And, I think the medicare card idea should have been investigated further.
Jim
Last week I posted in the I digress section that I was surprised by the strange questions that my bank had asked me when I made an ordinary over the counter withdrawal. They wanted to know if I had any overseas tax liabilities - at the time I thought that even if I did it was really none of their buisness as that type of info should be between myself and the ATO not some 3rd party. Yesterday I received my annual statement for a self funded income stream which in the foot note said that a copy of my details had also been forwarded to both the ATO and Centrelink. Again I can understand the ATO as it's considered to be income but I have never in my life had any dealings with the other mob so until I do my financial information should also be off limits to them. People were kidding themselves if they thought that by rejecting the Australia Card it would prevent the government from gaining acess to all of their personal information. Probably like most of the general population I don't really have anything to hide so the fact that the govenment has my info isn't really the issue the concern is how secure that personal data is. I guess it's too late worrying about it now they have been getting this information by stealth ever since we entered the computer age.
Cheers BB
-- Edited by The Belmont Bear on Wednesday 18th of July 2018 09:50:15 AM
You will most probably find that may of the anti data people are already at a greater security risk owing to DNA testing by my heritage and similar organisations that "Match" families through previous generations using a DNA probability matrix developed by the organisation in the USA. At best their matching is a parlour trick at the worst a dangerous use of the collected information library. This information can/could/will be used to determine health risk profiles which could adversely effect insurance rates etc. back to the OP topic; The Australian Govt (and perhaps others) already has all the basic health information on all citizens loosely held in ATO and Centerlink data bases - the current proposal to allow medico's access to the already held information which could improve the health outlook for many people. If this really upsets anyone they can opt out at any time - let's just hope that they never need the Medical Information in a life threatening situation whilst away from their local GP.
If you're not doing anything of a criminal nature & paying your taxes, who cares what the government knows about you.
Our files would make boring reading.
YES!!!!!!!!!
Aussie Paul.
Now you're not suggesting that our great exPM Pauly, the clock loving pig farmer, would throw out a straw man to distract attention are you?
Gee I miss that guy from our political arena. Such a sharp wit & cutting tongue. As well, his lot along with RJH got on with nation building rather than divisive self interest politicking.
Just look how far our working class have fallen since their going. But we have lots more Billionaires these days.
The problem i have with i it is thr fact that is NOT a complete health record, only bits and pieces uploaded to your file....
I work in cyber security and I know that although the Government claims that the system is secure there are many issues remaining. I won't go into technical details (you can look around the net for various technical comments), but I will say that I have already opted out (within an hour of being able to).
-- Edited by jerji on Friday 20th of July 2018 08:15:36 PM
I think it is a certainty that all data on this website is insecure and will, sooner or later, be hacked and misused and probably placed into the public domain.
From today's BBC News website:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-44900507