DD...Yep, believe its a Isuzu tug. Possible oil on the road. Lots of rigs on the road. Maybe school holidays has something to do with it?
-- Edited by Eaglemax on Monday 2nd of July 2018 05:15:00 PM
Dave1952 said
06:08 PM Jul 2, 2018
There was a push a few years back for all caravanners to have completed a course in defensive driving when towing, but I don't think the proponents of the course considered or envisaged the possibilities of oil on mountain range roads. The best place to learn to handle the oil slick situation is on the skid pan and without a van or trailer of any description, as a towed unit changes the whole dynamic of the corrective action, irrespective of the type of tug.
moamajohn said
08:45 AM Jul 3, 2018
If its oil on the road, the brand of tug or van means nothing .When I did a safety course years ago the instructor said you may as well let go the wheel and enjoy the view and brace yourselves for the result !! John
Dave1952 said
09:04 AM Jul 3, 2018
Too true John. And if even race car drivers crash when there's oil on the road, what hope does anyone else have?
outlaw40 said
10:40 AM Jul 3, 2018
Its called an accident for obvious reasons.we can dissect the event till the cows come home ( like another forum is doing right now) but it wont help , only the forensic crash team know for sure what happened and i dont believe old farts like us coming up with theorys about front tyre weight return,trailer only 80 % of tow vehicle, use of wdh or anything else will help.my opinion is that caravan accidents are still a very small percentage of overall accidents.rant over đ¤
Bill B said
10:44 AM Jul 3, 2018
Only accidents that are investigated are those that result in a fatality.
So in this instance the only person who has the real facts of what happened is the driver.
outlaw40 said
05:04 PM Jul 3, 2018
exactly my point Bill B we are never likely to know what really happened in this or any of the other accidents so vigorously dissected on this type of forum. if we look back at that other forum which we wont name it has almost reaching fever pitch.
-- Edited by outlaw40 on Tuesday 3rd of July 2018 05:05:27 PM
Dave1952 said
05:51 PM Jul 3, 2018
And it is quite possible that the driver may not know exactly what happened. These things can happen pretty quickly.
Eaglemax said
04:04 PM Jul 4, 2018
outlaw40 wrote:
exactly my point Bill B we are never likely to know what really happened in this or any of the other accidents so vigorously dissected on this type of forum. if we look back at that other forum which we wont name it has almost reaching fever pitch.
-- Edited by outlaw40 on Tuesday 3rd of July 2018 05:05:27 PM
last time I looked you had a choice to read it or not...
outlaw40 said
04:44 PM Jul 4, 2018
Eaglemax wrote:
outlaw40 wrote:
exactly my point Bill B we are never likely to know what really happened in this or any of the other accidents so vigorously dissected on this type of forum. if we look back at that other forum which we wont name it has almost reaching fever pitch.
-- Edited by outlaw40 on Tuesday 3rd of July 2018 05:05:27 PM
last time I looked you had a choice to read it or not...
Obviously my point has gone straight over your head eaglemax. My point is that these accidents are being dissected by so many people with so little qualification that the new comers and inexperienced on these forums are becoming totally confused. if you go back and read some of the posts you will maybe see where i am coming from.
Eaglemax said
08:31 PM Jul 4, 2018
So, you think inexperienced caravanners shouldnt reply at all with their thoughts?. I think they have every right to and be corrected if they are wrong. Furthermore, you cant tell how much experience some have. But of course you'd have more..
outlaw40 said
09:10 PM Jul 4, 2018
you are taking everything i say and twisting it . i am saying all the experienced have a different opinion and it becomes confusing for the inexperienced. but if you cant understand that then i give up .
Eaglemax said
09:21 PM Jul 4, 2018
Twisting it or reading your words differently? Likely the latter- peace. It happens in the written word
:)
Dave1952 said
11:16 AM Jul 5, 2018
Hi Outlaw40 & Eaglemax,
I dont see that arguing on this forum will solve anything. I am a very experienced investigator and if you read my last post on this thread, you will see that I am not offering any root cause for the crashes. Simply put, we can dissect each crash until the cows come home, as the saying goes, but unless we have the opportunity to interview the drivers and eyewitnesses, we will never be any closer to the truth of the matter.
Suffice to say that all we can offer is opinions and as the saying goes, Opinions are like A***holes, everyone has one.
Dave
Eaglemax said
01:38 PM Jul 5, 2018
Dave, I think the post above was totally unnecessary. One of the problems we have is people like yourself trying to shut other people down with their high horse attitude. I havent boasted about my experience until now but my 19 years experience as an investigator and several large caravans many years ago might compete with you. Stop the arrogance and let people talk.
Dave1952 said
03:13 PM Jul 5, 2018
Hi Eaglemax,
I wasnt attempting to be arrogant in any way. I simply dont see silly attacks on others in this thread or this forum to be necessary. Also, if you can top 38 years investigative experience, both criminal and civil, then you are in an excellent position to attack the credibility of someone with that level of experience, as well as formal investigative qualifications. I am not trying to shut anyone down. I just fail to see the sense in pursuing immature arguments.
Dave
Eaglemax said
05:57 PM Jul 5, 2018
"Also, if you can top 38 years investigative experience, both criminal and civil"
You dont know if I can do you? Similar career path and as long. Thats my point Dave. Forums should not be reserved just for the experts to judge the novices.
Dave1952 said
06:22 PM Jul 5, 2018
Thanks Eagelmax. That's exactly what I have been trying to say!!! As a matter of fact, what I was saying in my earlier post was that, since we haven't had the opportunity to investigate the facts fully, we should all reserve judgement. I'm sure you will agree with that assessment.
Eaglemax said
06:34 PM Jul 5, 2018
Of course. I think there us a positive in there somewhere with speculation though. Oil over the road, weight distribution errors, not enough passing lanes, tug too light and so on, all make the reader re-examine their rig and driving styles. That it reaches "fever pitch" is common on forums where caravanners feel they are more knowledgeable than the next guy ...but its natural with forums in my observations.
We've got mutual understanding. :) sorry if I misunderstood you Dave.
Dave1952 said
07:11 PM Jul 5, 2018
Mate, Im hearing you. Apology unnecessary. If I came across as arrogant at all, or even as though I was the acknowledged expert (which I most definitely am not) I also apologise. I know what you are saying though. We can all learn from these incidents if we want to. I know it has been a timely reminder to me as well.
Eaglemax said
08:16 PM Jul 5, 2018
:) :)
SouthernComfort said
08:54 AM Jul 6, 2018
Hallelujah!
I'd resisted among all the angst, but earlier on I had been tempted say for goodness sake allow people to express their views, opinions and speculations. Someone may learn something, even if it's only a prompt to check their own tyre pressures!! Most of us are intelligent enough to know that only a full and professional investigation by a genuine expert is likely to reveal the cause/s of this particular accident, however things are learned and thoughts are prompted along the way which can only be a good thing. People learn from discussion, that's what forums are for.
This one makes 4 accidents in the past 5 days.
https://www.cairnspost.com.au/news/cairns/kuranda-range-section-of-kennedy-highway-blocked-this-afternoon/news-story/ed203abb4c72542a1d285086490bfddd
DD...Yep, believe its a Isuzu tug. Possible oil on the road. Lots of rigs on the road. Maybe school holidays has something to do with it?
-- Edited by Eaglemax on Monday 2nd of July 2018 05:15:00 PM
So in this instance the only person who has the real facts of what happened is the driver.
exactly my point Bill B we are never likely to know what really happened in this or any of the other accidents so vigorously dissected on this type of forum. if we look back at that other forum which we wont name it has almost reaching fever pitch.
-- Edited by outlaw40 on Tuesday 3rd of July 2018 05:05:27 PM
last time I looked you had a choice to read it or not...
Obviously my point has gone straight over your head eaglemax. My point is that these accidents are being dissected by so many people with so little qualification that the new comers and inexperienced on these forums are becoming totally confused. if you go back and read some of the posts you will maybe see where i am coming from.
I dont see that arguing on this forum will solve anything. I am a very experienced investigator and if you read my last post on this thread, you will see that I am not offering any root cause for the crashes. Simply put, we can dissect each crash until the cows come home, as the saying goes, but unless we have the opportunity to interview the drivers and eyewitnesses, we will never be any closer to the truth of the matter.
Suffice to say that all we can offer is opinions and as the saying goes, Opinions are like A***holes, everyone has one.
Dave
I wasnt attempting to be arrogant in any way. I simply dont see silly attacks on others in this thread or this forum to be necessary. Also, if you can top 38 years investigative experience, both criminal and civil, then you are in an excellent position to attack the credibility of someone with that level of experience, as well as formal investigative qualifications. I am not trying to shut anyone down. I just fail to see the sense in pursuing immature arguments.
Dave
I'd resisted among all the angst, but earlier on I had been tempted say for goodness sake allow people to express their views, opinions and speculations. Someone may learn something, even if it's only a prompt to check their own tyre pressures!! Most of us are intelligent enough to know that only a full and professional investigation by a genuine expert is likely to reveal the cause/s of this particular accident, however things are learned and thoughts are prompted along the way which can only be a good thing. People learn from discussion, that's what forums are for.