Hi all, decided which ute and we are picking up our 2017 colorado next weds. 20k on the clock.
Question ... we will be towing our Avan Jensen which weighs 2.2 Tonne fully loaded with a ball down-weight approx 140kg. Not sure if I'll need the levelers on?
I believe that they do also help with sway but this vehicle has electronic sway assist (not fully up tp speed with that though )
Anyone git similar? And do you use levelers, nipping not to but ....
Al n Jan
Dougwe said
10:03 AM Jun 9, 2018
Nice Choice Al n Jan, nice. I have a 2014 Collie and tow 2.7t without and level thingies at all. I did however have one extra leaf added to each side rear spring and that has been great. Feel free to PM me if you want any more info on that. Well worth the cost. Of the extra leaf that is, not PMing me
outlaw40 said
01:28 PM Jun 9, 2018
140kg ball weight seems a little light for that size van ( rule of thumb is 10% of atm ) but i suppose you will have to wait and see. if the ball weight is correct and the van handles alright with that weight then i don't think you will need the wdh.
-- Edited by outlaw40 on Saturday 9th of June 2018 01:29:22 PM
Al n Jan said
11:07 PM Jun 9, 2018
outlaw40,
this van has seating and table at the front. Kitchen is over double axle and bed and ensuite is towards rear.
I suppose it will be heavier than the plate but the colorado is rated at 350kg, understanding the GVM is taken into account
Cheers
Al n Jan
PeterD said
12:29 AM Jun 10, 2018
outlaw40 wrote:
140kg ball weight seems a little light for that size van ( rule of thumb is 10% of atm ) but i suppose you will have to wait and see.
That is possibly the unladen ball weight. Vans mostly load up with extra weight on the ball. The way you load a van can increase the ball weight if necessary. I would be careful on the delivery trip and until you can get it loaded for travelling. There are a lot of vans flip on the delivery trip due to the light ball loadings. Keep your speed down.
outlaw40 said
06:18 AM Jun 10, 2018
PeterD wrote:
outlaw40 wrote:
140kg ball weight seems a little light for that size van ( rule of thumb is 10% of atm ) but i suppose you will have to wait and see.
That is possibly the unladen ball weight. Vans mostly load up with extra weight on the ball. The way you load a van can increase the ball weight if necessary. I would be careful on the delivery trip and until you can get it loaded for travelling. There are a lot of vans flip on the delivery trip due to the light ball loadings. Keep your speed down.
Yes i am aware of that PeterD ( this is not my first rodeo ) but if YOU read ops post he states van weighs 2.2tonne fully loaded with a ball weight of 140kg so one would think that 140 kg was from the same fully load van, in which case as per my first post the ball weight is too light
SouthernComfort said
09:12 AM Jun 10, 2018
Also check the vehicle manufacturer specs. Most will state if there's requirement/recommendation for a WDH if exceeding a particular tow weight in relation to the stock suspension. WDH is a leveller and won't do anything to control caravan sway. Not sure what you mean by the vehicle has electronic sway assist, do you mean it has ESC? If so that really only assists the vehicle rather than the van. If you haven't previously had swaying issues with your van behind another vehicle that shouldn't really change with your new one if your load & levels are in order. I agree with others if your loaded ball weight is only 140kg, it's a bit light on.
Al n Jan said
09:17 AM Jun 10, 2018
We have been towing this van for the past year but with our 2011 colorado using level riders. My question was really anyone out there who tows a van with the new Colorado without level riders?
Cheers.
SouthernComfort said
10:53 AM Jun 10, 2018
Al n Jan wrote:
We have been towing this van for the past year but with our 2011 colorado using level riders. My question was really anyone out there who tows a van with the new Colorado without level riders? Cheers.
Although you're aiming to distill opinions from colorado owners only, with respect their choice to tow either with or without a WDH doesn't necessarily make it the right choice, unless they can say it's in keeping with manufacturers recommendations. Best to at least take that into account, what the manufacturer specifies as necessary for your load (presumably with stock suspension on the vehicle) will not only impact on safety but also any future insurance claim. If you want to ignore everything else it's up to you, folks in here are really just trying to be helpful.
-- Edited by SouthernComfort on Sunday 10th of June 2018 10:54:06 AM
Desert Dweller said
06:36 AM Jun 11, 2018
As others have said, WDH's do nothing to prevent lateral movement (sway).
Phillipn said
08:43 AM Jun 11, 2018
Desert Dweller wrote:
As others have said, WDH's do nothing to prevent lateral movement (sway).
DD, WDH`s with built in ante sway devices do work. Yes, WDH`s that are attached to the A frame with chains do not prevent sway.
Check out Equalizer hitches and you can read the facts for yourself. When being over taken by a truck or bus the air from the front of the vehicle pushes the back of the van away causing the front to be pushed in the opposite direction, [to the right], causing the van to sway. The Equalizer hitch prevent the sway, and stops sway in side winds.
Their is another WDH on the market that looks like an EAZ-Lift but attaches to the A frame on L brackets like the Equalizer hitch and retails for around $700. I do not recall the name of it.
Dougwe said
10:03 AM Jun 11, 2018
Al n Jan wrote:
We have been towing this van for the past year but with our 2011 colorado using level riders. My question was really anyone out there who tows a van with the new Colorado without level riders? Cheers.
Hi Al n Jan, there is not a lot of differnece in the current model Collie and the 2014 as far as towing side of things go anyway and I think I answered your question in my first reply.
Enjoy your Collie.
PeterD said
10:34 AM Jun 11, 2018
SouthernComfort wrote:
WDH is a leveller and won't do anything to control caravan sway.
I would not agree. They do not directly counter the yawing (incorrectly called sway) in the van. However they do restore the stability of the tug to something like when there is no van coupled. When you restore the tugs stability you then have more chance of controlling the van. We all know how unstable a ute is when you load it with the weight too far back on the tray. When you put the weight forward the vehicles natural stability is restored. WDH works the same way, it shifts the effect of the loading further forward in relation to the axles.
SouthernComfort said
01:34 PM Jun 11, 2018
PeterD wrote:
SouthernComfort wrote:
WDH is a leveller and won't do anything to control caravan sway.
I would not agree. They do not directly counter the yawing (incorrectly called sway) in the van. However they do restore the stability of the tug to something like when there is no van coupled. When you restore the tugs stability you then have more chance of controlling the van. We all know how unstable a ute is when you load it with the weight too far back on the tray. When you put the weight forward the vehicles natural stability is restored. WDH works the same way, it shifts the effect of the loading further forward in relation to the axles.
All the WDH will do is potentially restore the vehicle to it's correct level (or close to it). However, just the same as a lighter rig that doesn't require artificial leveling, if you add a WDH for the purpose of controlling sway it won't work. That's why anti-sway devices exist (friction type, electronic type etc), and even then the incidence of sway should first be lessened by correct load balancing.
PeterD said
12:20 AM Jun 12, 2018
Tony, I told you that your terminology was wrong, Swat is a side to side movement. Sway is corrected by using torsion bars across the vehicle between the LH and RH wheel. All cars are now fitted with them. What the so called friction anti-sway devices attempt to correct is yaw and not sway. If you can not understand that then it is no wonder you attempted to correct me.
Phillipn said
06:23 AM Jun 12, 2018
Question: To those who say that ante sway devices don`t work, have any of you used one of these systems?
Desert Dweller said
08:30 AM Jun 12, 2018
Phillipn wrote:
Desert Dweller wrote:
As others have said, WDH's do nothing to prevent lateral movement (sway).
Yes, WDH`s that are attached to the A frame with chains do not prevent sway.
That's the ones we were referring to. The commonly used ones.
Tony, I told you that your terminology was wrong, Swat is a side to side movement. Sway is corrected by using torsion bars across the vehicle between the LH and RH wheel. All cars are now fitted with them. What the so called friction anti-sway devices attempt to correct is yaw and not sway. If you can not understand that then it is no wonder you attempted to correct me.
We have differing opinions PeterD, and I'd have been happy to respond here by saying let's agree to disagree. However, when you presume to "tell someone their terminology is wrong", then you'd be wise to check the absolute accuracy of your own before playing the expert.
There are plenty of references on the subject of yaw/sway and how to mitigate the effect, here's a useful one:
I had a look at the dictionary meanings of the words, sway is more a descriptive term for the motion, i.e. "She swayed with the music", "The trees swayed with the wind", or "The buildings swayed in the earth quake", but when we talk about an object moving, its about a pivot point, or the central axis, the three axis's being vertical, longitudinal and horizontal.
Movement about the longitudinal axis is called pitching, movement about the vertical axis is called yawing, and movement along the lateral axis is called lateral rotation (I think). How ever the description of the combined movement could be loosely described as sway.
rockylizard said
10:42 AM Jun 12, 2018
Gday...
GEEZ youse blokes ... yaw not gotta sway me.
cheers - John
Hylife said
07:31 PM Jun 14, 2018
Just my opinion, because the OP did ask, not because I want to get into a slinging match over differing opinions to which others are just as entitled to.
No. You currently don't need them because your van is in my opinion poorly balanced.
140kg for a 2.2 ton van is simply not enough tow ball weight.
140kg is bugger all weight on a vehicles rear suspension such as the collie.
Most level ride devices will do absolutely zero to stop or minimise poor handling on a combination that is poorly balanced.
Tow balls that are underloaded will result in pronounced upward see-sawing and rear end zig zagging of both the tow vehicle and the van especially if the van is a tandem.
Do you need them once you get that balance fixed to approx. 200+kg on the tow ball? Well that depends on how your particular collie and van combo handles on the road.
If you are finding your vehicle is bum down nose up then yes you need them. With age your springs will weaken and sag and as a temporary fix level ride devices can help, but better to get replacement springs.
If you find too much downward see-sawing from your vehicles soft suspension then yes you need them.
As for generic ' tail wagging', the best solution is to keep close to 10% of your tow weight on the ball and minimise weight on the rear of the van.
Nice Choice Al n Jan, nice. I have a 2014 Collie and tow 2.7t without and level thingies at all. I did however have one extra leaf added to each side rear spring and that has been great. Feel free to PM me if you want any more info on that. Well worth the cost. Of the extra leaf that is, not PMing me
140kg ball weight seems a little light for that size van ( rule of thumb is 10% of atm ) but i suppose you will have to wait and see. if the ball weight is correct and the van handles alright with that weight then i don't think you will need the wdh.
-- Edited by outlaw40 on Saturday 9th of June 2018 01:29:22 PM
That is possibly the unladen ball weight. Vans mostly load up with extra weight on the ball. The way you load a van can increase the ball weight if necessary. I would be careful on the delivery trip and until you can get it loaded for travelling. There are a lot of vans flip on the delivery trip due to the light ball loadings. Keep your speed down.
Yes i am aware of that PeterD ( this is not my first rodeo ) but if YOU read ops post he states van weighs 2.2tonne fully loaded with a ball weight of 140kg so one would think that 140 kg was from the same fully load van, in which case as per my first post the ball weight is too light
Although you're aiming to distill opinions from colorado owners only, with respect their choice to tow either with or without a WDH doesn't necessarily make it the right choice, unless they can say it's in keeping with manufacturers recommendations. Best to at least take that into account, what the manufacturer specifies as necessary for your load (presumably with stock suspension on the vehicle) will not only impact on safety but also any future insurance claim. If you want to ignore everything else it's up to you, folks in here are really just trying to be helpful.
-- Edited by SouthernComfort on Sunday 10th of June 2018 10:54:06 AM
DD, WDH`s with built in ante sway devices do work. Yes, WDH`s that are attached to the A frame with chains do not prevent sway.
Check out Equalizer hitches and you can read the facts for yourself. When being over taken by a truck or bus the air from the front of the vehicle pushes the back of the van away causing the front to be pushed in the opposite direction, [to the right], causing the van to sway. The Equalizer hitch prevent the sway, and stops sway in side winds.
Their is another WDH on the market that looks like an EAZ-Lift but attaches to the A frame on L brackets like the Equalizer hitch and retails for around $700. I do not recall the name of it.
Hi Al n Jan, there is not a lot of differnece in the current model Collie and the 2014 as far as towing side of things go anyway and I think I answered your question in my first reply.
Enjoy your Collie.
I would not agree. They do not directly counter the yawing (incorrectly called sway) in the van. However they do restore the stability of the tug to something like when there is no van coupled. When you restore the tugs stability you then have more chance of controlling the van. We all know how unstable a ute is when you load it with the weight too far back on the tray. When you put the weight forward the vehicles natural stability is restored. WDH works the same way, it shifts the effect of the loading further forward in relation to the axles.
All the WDH will do is potentially restore the vehicle to it's correct level (or close to it). However, just the same as a lighter rig that doesn't require artificial leveling, if you add a WDH for the purpose of controlling sway it won't work. That's why anti-sway devices exist (friction type, electronic type etc), and even then the incidence of sway should first be lessened by correct load balancing.
Question: To those who say that ante sway devices don`t work, have any of you used one of these systems?
That's the ones we were referring to. The commonly used ones.
We have differing opinions PeterD, and I'd have been happy to respond here by saying let's agree to disagree. However, when you presume to "tell someone their terminology is wrong", then you'd be wise to check the absolute accuracy of your own before playing the expert.
There are plenty of references on the subject of yaw/sway and how to mitigate the effect, here's a useful one:
http://www.withoutahitch.com.au/caravan/caravan-travel-dont-get-blown-away-passing-trucks/
End of topic for me.
Movement about the longitudinal axis is called pitching, movement about the vertical axis is called yawing, and movement along the lateral axis is called lateral rotation (I think). How ever the description of the combined movement could be loosely described as sway.
Gday...
GEEZ youse blokes ... yaw not gotta sway me.
cheers - John
Just my opinion, because the OP did ask, not because I want to get into a slinging match over differing opinions to which others are just as entitled to.
No. You currently don't need them because your van is in my opinion poorly balanced.
140kg for a 2.2 ton van is simply not enough tow ball weight.
140kg is bugger all weight on a vehicles rear suspension such as the collie.
Most level ride devices will do absolutely zero to stop or minimise poor handling on a combination that is poorly balanced.
Tow balls that are underloaded will result in pronounced upward see-sawing and rear end zig zagging of both the tow vehicle and the van especially if the van is a tandem.
Do you need them once you get that balance fixed to approx. 200+kg on the tow ball? Well that depends on how your particular collie and van combo handles on the road.
If you are finding your vehicle is bum down nose up then yes you need them. With age your springs will weaken and sag and as a temporary fix level ride devices can help, but better to get replacement springs.
If you find too much downward see-sawing from your vehicles soft suspension then yes you need them.
As for generic ' tail wagging', the best solution is to keep close to 10% of your tow weight on the ball and minimise weight on the rear of the van.