Also on Melbourne talk Back, is that Truck Drivers are in short supply and many of the new young ones "arc up" easily and with very minimal experience, so giving them" the bird" or indeed any one is not a good idea.
Desert Dweller said
06:32 PM May 23, 2018
Lots of Baby Boomers that have very limited rural driving experience (mainly city) buying large caravans & hitting major highways in their retirement.
Therein lies the problem. It comes down to inexperience on the part of the RVers. The majority of truck drivers are fine.
Truckie & Backpacker bashing is rife in the Nomad community. Take a long look at your own practices before criticizing others.
Santa said
06:49 PM May 23, 2018
Desert Dweller wrote:
Lots of Baby Boomers that have very limited rural driving experience (mainly city) buying large caravans & hitting major highways in their retirement.
Therein lies the problem. It comes down to inexperience on the part of the RVers. The majority of truck drivers are fine.
Truckie & Backpacker bashing is rife in the Nomad community. Take a long look at your own practices before criticizing others.
Amen to that.
Bill B said
06:53 PM May 23, 2018
Desert Dweller wrote:
Truckie & Backpacker bashing is rife in the Nomad community. Take a long look at your own practices before criticizing others.
Of course Grey Nomad bashing would never happen within the trucking community would it
rockylizard said
07:05 PM May 23, 2018
Gday...
Cheers - John
Santa said
07:22 PM May 23, 2018
Bill B wrote:
Of course Grey Nomad bashing would never happen within the trucking community would it
It would! and with good reason.
Bulariver said
08:05 PM May 23, 2018
I agree with Craig1 - it seems to me that the young Turks get hot under the collar and abuse everyone on C40. The more experienced guys seem to be able to go with the flow. My experience is that most caravan towers are very aware of the need to let the big rigs get on their way, and sensible use of 40 helps get everything sorted. The further away from the east coast you get, the easier it gets!
rockylizard said
08:20 PM May 23, 2018
Gday...
I apologise for seemingly sounding 'holier than thou' .... but I have been travelling full-time wif me liddle van and Landy for the past 10 years.
I have not had the misfortune to encounter a "bad trucker" ... but then again I keep them informed wif me liddle UHF.
I have not yet found one that is abusive, or a pain either on the UHF of giving me a hard time on the road.
However, I have certainly encountered many caravanners that are completely unaware of their usage of the road ... or should I say the mis-usage of the road.
UHF sign on the rear of the van ... no reply with trying to contact them. Going slowly along their way, seemingly oblivious of the convoy they have created ... even the ones who sit on 85kph along the highway and then when they get to the overtaking lanes, stay left ... no worries ... but speed up to 95Kph.
No mirrors ... late (or no) indication of deviation ... changing lanes without thinking of what is behind.
I certainly consider the trucker, who is trying to make a living in a difficult environment, with pressures we poor retired folk don't have, should be given every opportunity and consideration.
OH - and unfortunately, I too have made some silly mistakes too ... late indication is one of my biggest sins especially when trying to find a turnoff - and going too slow trying to find it.
Cheers - John
hako said
09:01 PM May 23, 2018
Something I've seen twice in recent weeks in Toowoomba - caravan with "DO NOT OVERTAKE TURNING VEHICLE" signs on back trying to turn right from the lane to the left of the right turn lane. Causes long backups as 2 lanes are reduced to 1 and much horn blowing. There is no need to occupy 2 lanes when turning to the right but these dudes thing they have the right.
Regards
Grubbygypsy said
10:45 PM May 23, 2018
I'm with you John (RL). I've been on the road full time nearly 7 years, and a female towing a near on 25ft van (shock horror) and I've NEVER come across an irate truckie. It all comes down to common sense. I think many drivers (not just those towing) should sit for half an hour in a big rig....
I've also driven triple road trains.....but personally that wasn't my knowledge base.
We'll never cure fools. One of my latest replies to someone that basically excused a mega roll over because the state (territory) used to have a 130klm speed limit for 200klm stretch.
Well.......what do you do with people like that?
Hope the hell they're on the other end of the country when you're moving I say.
Bulariver said
09:11 AM May 24, 2018
I have never understood why people put DO NOT OVERTAKE TURNING VEHICLE on the back of their van. What does it mean? If it means don't overtake a vehicle that is turning RIGHT, well that's learner driver lesson 101! If it means do not overtake vehicle turning left because it might pull out to the right first, it's not going to achieve much because by the time an approaching overtaker sees the sign, he will be on his way past! Better to use your mirrors and look out for overtaking vehicles before you commence a turn, I say.
Dickodownunder said
09:43 AM May 24, 2018
Here is the regs from SA but they are pretty much the same in all states.
You dont have to have the signs on caravans but if you dont and you are turning then you are liable should your vehicle or trailer cross into the other lane and collide with another vehicle.
Hakos description above is probably a display of bad driving or poor decision making than actually needing the two lanes to turn, particularly to the right.
Bulariver said
03:48 PM May 24, 2018
I think that link proves my point. DO NOT OVERTAKE TURNING VEHICLE signs are for heavy vehicles that are also very long and so must use both lanes when turning. This does not apply to caravans because the van follows the tug and can easily turn from one lane. I think the point about being liable is a furphy and wouldn't hold up in any court - not even in SA!
2weis said
04:24 PM May 24, 2018
from qld road transport safe towing guide 2016
Rear Marker Plates (Do Not Overtake Turning Vehicle Signs)
If your vehicle (meaning the towing vehicle together with the trailer and projecting load) is 7.5 metres long or longer, you mayhave the sign Do not overtake turning vehicle displayed at the rear of the rearmost vehicle. This can be either a separate sign or the words can be incorporated on either the left hand marking plate only, or both left and right plates. Please note: if your vehicle (meaning the towing vehicle together with the trailer and projecting load) needs to straddle lanes or turn from an adjacent lane in order to turn left or right at intersections, and it is 7.5 metres long or longer, you must have the sign DO NOT OVERTAKE TURNING VEHICLE.
The Transport Operations (Road Use ManagementRoad Rules) Regulation 2009 Part 11 Keeping left, overtaking and other driving rules, section 143 states: Passing or overtaking a vehicle displaying a do not overtake turning vehicle sign. (1) A driver must not drive past, or overtake, to the left of a vehicle displaying a do not overtake turning vehicle sign if the vehicle is turning left and is giving a left change of direction signal, unless it is safe to do so.
(2) A driver must not drive past, or overtake, to the right of a vehicle displaying a do not overtake turning vehicle sign if the vehicle is turning right, or making a U-turn from the centre of the road, and is giving a right change of direction signal, unless it is safe to do so.
.Note: A person must not drive a vehicle or combination in Queensland displaying a do not overtake turning vehicle sign if the vehicle, together with any load or projection, is not 7.5m long, or longer.
I think it will hold up in court
-- Edited by 2weis on Thursday 24th of May 2018 04:26:19 PM
Triggy said
06:48 PM May 24, 2018
why do some people display this sign on the right hand side only ? As this is not legal.
Quote " on either the left hand marking plate only, or both left and right plates."
Dickodownunder said
07:12 PM May 24, 2018
Bulariver wrote:
I think that link proves my point. DO NOT OVERTAKE TURNING VEHICLE signs are for heavy vehicles that are also very long and so must use both lanes when turning. This does not apply to caravans because the van follows the tug and can easily turn from one lane. I think the point about being liable is a furphy and wouldn't hold up in any court - not even in SA!
Well here we go.
Those signs are fitted so as to allow a long vehicle to turn without interference.
you either have a vehicle and caravan combination under 7.5 metres or you have never towed your combination in any suburb of any capital city and actually had to turn a corner .
The most annoying part about your comment is that you do not provide any documentation to back up your rudeness.
If you have the written law stating your case then please enlighten us all.
I am quite happy to be proved wrong and make a full apology to all forum members.
This highlights the root behind many of the problems that a certain group of caravanners cause and their collective false beliefs are brought about by ignorance of the laws which apply to them as motorists towing caravans.
Bulariver said
08:22 PM May 24, 2018
I have towed my 14 metre rig through Perth, Adelaide, Melbourne and Sydney and never had a problem turning at junctions without staying in my lane. I think that just about says it all!
2weis said
08:38 PM May 24, 2018
Bulariver wrote:
I have towed my 14 metre rig through Perth, Adelaide, Melbourne and Sydney and never had a problem turning at junctions without staying in my lane. I think that just about says it all!
I think that link proves my point. DO NOT OVERTAKE TURNING VEHICLE signs are for heavy vehicles that are also very long and so must use both lanes when turning. This does not apply to caravans because the van follows the tug and can easily turn from one lane. I think the point about being liable is a furphy and wouldn't hold up in any court - not even in SA!
the replies are about the legality of the signs not your ability to drive
brian
Bulariver said
09:01 PM May 24, 2018
We'll sort of, but not quite! There have been suggestions that if you don't have a turning sign, you would/could be held liable in the event of an accident. Having since done a bit of research on this, it seems to me that these signs are essentially meant for large long vehicles that cannot turn in the normal lanes on our roads and thus the vehicle has to cross into the adjoining lane to make a safe turn. With regard to caravans, legislators seem to have suggested that caravans may display such a sign if they believe they may need to cross into the adjoining lane in order to make a turn. I suppose this could apply to very large rigs such as 5th wheelers, but probably not to caravans. Caravans of more normal size can easily be towed through cities otherwise how would we drive through the narrow lanes of many caravan parks. I think the key point here is that if our legislators thought they might be a problem, they would have mandated such signs on caravan rigs above a certain length - but they haven't. With regard to liability, if you stay in your lane you will be fine - with or without a DNOTV sign.
2weis said
09:15 PM May 24, 2018
read the first post I put up It dose not matter if it is a semi or a caravan over 7.5mt you may display a do not overtake turning vehicle sign and you can then straddle left or right turn lanes and it is an offence for another vehice to attempt to pass on left or right
keeping in the single may be easier most times but not all the time
brian
Santa said
09:27 PM May 24, 2018
Seems to me most who tow caravans have their own unique interpretation/understanding of of road rules, and! they all reckon their right.
No wonder so many get into trouble.
-- Edited by Santa on Thursday 24th of May 2018 09:28:15 PM
Blues Man said
06:53 AM May 25, 2018
I think you're right Santa .Reading this thread just reminded me to get a pair of "Do not overtake turning vehicle " signs
for my 8 mtr M/H with Suzie in tow. I would hate to think what would happen if i tried to make a tight turn from the wrong lane.
One would have to get out ,unhook the car and back it up ,then back up the truck ,hook back up again.
This all takes time .Can you imagine the headaches one would cause .
iana said
01:05 PM May 25, 2018
An interesting experience I had, towing a 25ft van behind a ute, busy traffic, and I had to change lanes to make a right hand turn at the lights. Put my indicators on, and the traffic left me space. Then my wife said something, I looked her way, then I heard a horn beeping and a car had snuck up in the rt turn rt lane lane as I was pulling over. Gave both of us a fright. So would that rule apply here?. Have since added side indicators on the van at the back, as the rear indicators are very directional.
-- Edited by iana on Friday 25th of May 2018 01:05:55 PM
Dougwe said
02:19 PM May 25, 2018
"as the rear indicators are very directional."
G'day Ian,
They should be very very directional mate cos one says you are turning left and the other one says you are turning right. How much more directional should they be
Sorry mate, couldn't resist myself with that one.
Your idea of indicators down the side is a goody. I have indicators on my Clearview mirrors so that helps as well.
Weevil said
05:07 PM May 25, 2018
An isolated incident and nothing like this has happened to me before or since. Approx 3 years ago on a straight road up north in WA, I was driving my campervan when I spotted a truck quite some distance behind me. As I was going 100 kph and I knew this was the legal speed for trucks in WA I was not expecting the truck would catch up to me, however I noticed it was getting closer even though I had stuck to the 100 kph speed limit.
Eventually I looked in my rear view mirror and saw that it was sitting on my tail, that close I could not see all of the bumper bar behind me. There were steep drop off's on the side of the road and at that speed I had no hope of slowing down to pull over with the truck so close behind. I put my left indicator on hoping the driver would understand I was looking for a suitable spot to pull over, I could not use my 2 way as I was hanging onto the steering wheel for grim death in case he nudged me from behind he was that close. Eventually he pulled out nearly clipping the rear of my campervan (I had maintained my speed while he overtook while he was behind me).
I managed to see the name of the trucking firm on the side of the truck and when I had the opportunity gave them ring, they took my number and told me he could not have exceeded 100 kph as all their trucks were governed at 100 kph. Later they rang me and said they had inspected the truck and the driver had fiddled with the governor so he could go faster and as a result they had sacked him. Like all of us there are always some cowboys on both sides of the fence, and in this case the trucking firm did not muck around, they got rid of the offender.
-- Edited by Weevil on Friday 25th of May 2018 11:13:54 PM
iana said
06:37 PM May 25, 2018
Dougwe, the English language is a funny thing, and you are so correct. I need to read my posts a bit better.
The way many Grey Nomads respond, or should I say fail to respond to trucks is appalling, not surprised truckies get mightily frustrated with them.
This ABC report is worth a read.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-05-20/rising-tension-between-truck-drivers-and-grey-nomads/9776266
Therein lies the problem. It comes down to inexperience on the part of the RVers. The majority of truck drivers are fine.
Truckie & Backpacker bashing is rife in the Nomad community. Take a long look at your own practices before criticizing others.
Amen to that.
Of course Grey Nomad bashing would never happen within the trucking community would it
Gday...
Cheers - John
It would! and with good reason.
I agree with Craig1 - it seems to me that the young Turks get hot under the collar and abuse everyone on C40. The more experienced guys seem to be able to go with the flow. My experience is that most caravan towers are very aware of the need to let the big rigs get on their way, and sensible use of 40 helps get everything sorted. The further away from the east coast you get, the easier it gets!
Gday...
I apologise for seemingly sounding 'holier than thou' .... but I have been travelling full-time wif me liddle van and Landy for the past 10 years.
I have not had the misfortune to encounter a "bad trucker" ... but then again I keep them informed wif me liddle UHF.
I have not yet found one that is abusive, or a pain either on the UHF of giving me a hard time on the road.
However, I have certainly encountered many caravanners that are completely unaware of their usage of the road ... or should I say the mis-usage of the road.
UHF sign on the rear of the van ... no reply with trying to contact them. Going slowly along their way, seemingly oblivious of the convoy they have created ... even the ones who sit on 85kph along the highway and then when they get to the overtaking lanes, stay left ... no worries ... but speed up to 95Kph.
No mirrors ... late (or no) indication of deviation ... changing lanes without thinking of what is behind.
I certainly consider the trucker, who is trying to make a living in a difficult environment, with pressures we poor retired folk don't have, should be given every opportunity and consideration.
OH - and unfortunately, I too have made some silly mistakes too ... late indication is one of my biggest sins especially when trying to find a turnoff - and going too slow trying to find it.
Cheers - John
Regards
I've also driven triple road trains.....but personally that wasn't my knowledge base.
We'll never cure fools. One of my latest replies to someone that basically excused a mega roll over because the state (territory) used to have a 130klm speed limit for 200klm stretch.
Well.......what do you do with people like that?
Hope the hell they're on the other end of the country when you're moving I say.
I have never understood why people put DO NOT OVERTAKE TURNING VEHICLE on the back of their van. What does it mean? If it means don't overtake a vehicle that is turning RIGHT, well that's learner driver lesson 101! If it means do not overtake vehicle turning left because it might pull out to the right first, it's not going to achieve much because by the time an approaching overtaker sees the sign, he will be on his way past! Better to use your mirrors and look out for overtaking vehicles before you commence a turn, I say.
www.dpti.sa.gov.au/towardszerotogether/safe_road_users/heavy_vehicle_drivers
You dont have to have the signs on caravans but if you dont and you are turning then you are liable should your vehicle or trailer cross into the other lane and collide with another vehicle.
Hakos description above is probably a display of bad driving or poor decision making than actually needing the two lanes to turn, particularly to the right.
I think that link proves my point. DO NOT OVERTAKE TURNING VEHICLE signs are for heavy vehicles that are also very long and so must use both lanes when turning. This does not apply to caravans because the van follows the tug and can easily turn from one lane. I think the point about being liable is a furphy and wouldn't hold up in any court - not even in SA!
from qld road transport safe towing guide 2016
Rear Marker Plates (Do Not Overtake Turning Vehicle Signs)
If your vehicle (meaning the towing vehicle together with the trailer and projecting load) is 7.5 metres long or longer, you may have the sign Do not overtake turning vehicle displayed at the rear of the rearmost vehicle. This can be either a separate sign or the words can be incorporated on either the left hand marking plate only, or both left and right plates. Please note: if your vehicle (meaning the towing vehicle together with the trailer and projecting load) needs to straddle lanes or turn from an adjacent lane in order to turn left or right at intersections, and it is 7.5 metres long or longer, you must have the sign DO NOT OVERTAKE TURNING VEHICLE.
The Transport Operations (Road Use ManagementRoad Rules) Regulation 2009 Part 11 Keeping left, overtaking and other driving rules, section 143 states:
Passing or overtaking a vehicle displaying a do not overtake turning vehicle sign.
(1) A driver must not drive past, or overtake, to the left of a vehicle displaying a do not overtake turning vehicle sign if the vehicle is turning left and is giving a left change of direction signal, unless it is safe to do so.
(2) A driver must not drive past, or overtake, to the right of a vehicle displaying a do not overtake turning vehicle sign if the vehicle is turning right, or making a U-turn from the centre of the road, and is giving a right change of direction signal, unless it is safe to do so.
.Note: A person must not drive a vehicle or combination in Queensland displaying a do not overtake turning vehicle sign if the vehicle, together with any load or projection, is not 7.5m long, or longer.
I think it will hold up in court
-- Edited by 2weis on Thursday 24th of May 2018 04:26:19 PM
Quote " on either the left hand marking plate only, or both left and right plates."
Well here we go.
Those signs are fitted so as to allow a long vehicle to turn without interference.
you either have a vehicle and caravan combination under 7.5 metres or you have never towed your combination in any suburb of any capital city and actually had to turn a corner .
The most annoying part about your comment is that you do not provide any documentation to back up your rudeness.
If you have the written law stating your case then please enlighten us all.
I am quite happy to be proved wrong and make a full apology to all forum members.
www5.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/vic/consol_reg/rsrr2017208/s143.html
www5.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/nsw/consol_reg/rr2014104/s316.2.html
www.google.com.au/search
This highlights the root behind many of the problems that a certain group of caravanners cause and their collective false beliefs are brought about by ignorance of the laws which apply to them as motorists towing caravans.
I have towed my 14 metre rig through Perth, Adelaide, Melbourne and Sydney and never had a problem turning at junctions without staying in my lane. I think that just about says it all!
I think that link proves my point. DO NOT OVERTAKE TURNING VEHICLE signs are for heavy vehicles that are also very long and so must use both lanes when turning. This does not apply to caravans because the van follows the tug and can easily turn from one lane. I think the point about being liable is a furphy and wouldn't hold up in any court - not even in SA!
the replies are about the legality of the signs not your ability to drive
brian
We'll sort of, but not quite! There have been suggestions that if you don't have a turning sign, you would/could be held liable in the event of an accident. Having since done a bit of research on this, it seems to me that these signs are essentially meant for large long vehicles that cannot turn in the normal lanes on our roads and thus the vehicle has to cross into the adjoining lane to make a safe turn. With regard to caravans, legislators seem to have suggested that caravans may display such a sign if they believe they may need to cross into the adjoining lane in order to make a turn. I suppose this could apply to very large rigs such as 5th wheelers, but probably not to caravans. Caravans of more normal size can easily be towed through cities otherwise how would we drive through the narrow lanes of many caravan parks. I think the key point here is that if our legislators thought they might be a problem, they would have mandated such signs on caravan rigs above a certain length - but they haven't. With regard to liability, if you stay in your lane you will be fine - with or without a DNOTV sign.
read the first post I put up
It dose not matter if it is a semi or a caravan over 7.5mt you may display a do not overtake turning vehicle sign and you can then straddle left or right turn lanes
and it is an offence for another vehice to attempt to pass on left or right
keeping in the single may be easier most times but not all the time
brian
Seems to me most who tow caravans have their own unique interpretation/understanding of of road rules, and! they all reckon their right.
No wonder so many get into trouble.
-- Edited by Santa on Thursday 24th of May 2018 09:28:15 PM
I think you're right Santa .Reading this thread just reminded me to get a pair of "Do not overtake turning vehicle " signs
for my 8 mtr M/H with Suzie in tow. I would hate to think what would happen if i tried to make a tight turn from the wrong lane.
One would have to get out ,unhook the car and back it up ,then back up the truck ,hook back up again.
This all takes time .Can you imagine the headaches one would cause .
An interesting experience I had, towing a 25ft van behind a ute, busy traffic, and I had to change lanes to make a right hand turn at the lights. Put my indicators on, and the traffic left me space. Then my wife said something, I looked her way, then I heard a horn beeping and a car had snuck up in the rt turn rt lane lane as I was pulling over. Gave both of us a fright. So would that rule apply here?.
Have since added side indicators on the van at the back, as the rear indicators are very directional.
-- Edited by iana on Friday 25th of May 2018 01:05:55 PM
"as the rear indicators are very directional."
G'day Ian,
They should be very very directional mate cos one says you are turning left and the other one says you are turning right. How much more directional should they be
Sorry mate, couldn't resist myself with that one.
Your idea of indicators down the side is a goody. I have indicators on my Clearview mirrors so that helps as well.
An isolated incident and nothing like this has happened to me before or since. Approx 3 years ago on a straight road up north in WA, I was driving my campervan when I spotted a truck quite some distance behind me. As I was going 100 kph and I knew this was the legal speed for trucks in WA I was not expecting the truck would catch up to me, however I noticed it was getting closer even though I had stuck to the 100 kph speed limit.
Eventually I looked in my rear view mirror and saw that it was sitting on my tail, that close I could not see all of the bumper bar behind me. There were steep drop off's on the side of the road and at that speed I had no hope of slowing down to pull over with the truck so close behind. I put my left indicator on hoping the driver would understand I was looking for a suitable spot to pull over, I could not use my 2 way as I was hanging onto the steering wheel for grim death in case he nudged me from behind he was that close. Eventually he pulled out nearly clipping the rear of my campervan (I had maintained my speed while he overtook while he was behind me).
I managed to see the name of the trucking firm on the side of the truck and when I had the opportunity gave them ring, they took my number and told me he could not have exceeded 100 kph as all their trucks were governed at 100 kph. Later they rang me and said they had inspected the truck and the driver had fiddled with the governor so he could go faster and as a result they had sacked him. Like all of us there are always some cowboys on both sides of the fence, and in this case the trucking firm did not muck around, they got rid of the offender.
-- Edited by Weevil on Friday 25th of May 2018 11:13:54 PM