is it just me or do others NOT like the idea of bottled gas installed onto caravans and motorhomes?
is it safe and have any hazardous incidents happened in Australia before?
Also, is it costly to operate and re-fill?
Regards,
Mark
-- Edited by Hot Water on Friday 27th of April 2018 10:13:11 AM
Delta18 said
09:23 AM Apr 27, 2018
Like any manufactured item it is made as safe (idiotproof) as is is possible by design & regulation.
Unfortunately sometimes an idiot comes along that that is even more idiotic than could have been forecast and beats the system.
erad said
09:48 AM Apr 27, 2018
Bottled gas is safe as long as you take reasonable precautions. If you replace the bottle (because it is empty for example), check that the fitting on the end of the pipe is clean and that it is screwed up firmly. Note that it is a left hand thread.
If you have a bottle inside a vehicle it should be there as short a time as possible. This is because it is most likely unrestrained and also if it is leaking, you want as little gas as possible inside the vehicle. Make sure that you have the cabin fan drawing air from outside, and the bottle behind you. Hopefully the leaked gas (which is heavier than air and therefore falls to the floor of the car) will be blown out through the car's positive vents (Usually located near the rear wheel arches. And of course - DON'T SMOKE anywhere near the gas bottle.
Gas installations in motor homes and caravans are designed with vents to allow any leaked gas to escape. Therefore the systems are as safe as can reasonably be made.
Dougwe said
09:48 AM Apr 27, 2018
Don't ya mean the 'system' beats them, Delta
Me, it doesn't scare me at all. I take precautions as needed and have gas on board and use it. A must have item when on the road travelling around. IMO.
Hot Water said
10:18 AM Apr 27, 2018
Dougwe wrote:
Don't ya mean the 'system' beats them, Delta
Me, it doesn't scare me at all. I take precautions as needed and have gas on board and use it. A must have item when on the road travelling around. IMO.
are you concerned about a possible impact to the gas bottle or hoses if a car hits it?
Dougwe said
10:45 AM Apr 27, 2018
Hi HW.
No not really. Once we choose to go on the road it is a risk anyway. As I said, I have the gas on board and use it for my 3 way fridge, full gas stove, Truma gas heater, Suburban hot water heater and even have a bayonete fitting on ouside of aluminium teepee for the Baby Q when needed. I do have a 4.5kg bottle of gas for that as well though. Fellow travellers I have come across mostly have the same.
I never use anything unless I am there with it or at least in sight.
If you look into any accidents about gas, mostly, it was because of something silly being done. Gas bottles are very safe really.
Don't let it scare you HW. It is good to have around. If you set up for 240v only you must always go to CVP or use a Genie. You will miss some great places that way.
Think, first then use. Have a great play in the playground.
Desert Dweller said
11:38 AM Apr 27, 2018
Bottled gas, we've been using it while camping for 45 years. It's an essential item for us when we're traveling. What's the problem?
Delta18 said
11:46 AM Apr 27, 2018
Many many caravans have been involved in a road crash. Every one of them would have at least 1 bottle, more likely 2 fitted.
I am yet to see a bottle causing a fire in a crash.
Bagmaker said
11:48 AM Apr 27, 2018
you are arriving at a waterside camp with a fuel tank half full of liquid explosive sloshing about, not wearing a lifejacket (tsunami) or hard hat (meteor strike) and are surrounded by mossies. Did you update your malaria shot?
Jaahn said
12:10 PM Apr 28, 2018
Hot Water wrote:
Hi,
is it just me or do others NOT like the idea of bottled gas installed onto caravans and motorhomes?
is it safe and have any hazardous incidents happened in Australia before?
Also, is it costly to operate and re-fill?
Regards,Mark
Hi Mark
There is some small risk with LPG but as said manageable with common sense. I have never seen any serious problems over the years using it. Less of a problem than the 50 - 70 liters of very flammable petrol in a fuel tank that I drove around with for the last 50 years. No problem either.
Relax and enjoy the travel. The cost is OK and not excessive. Out of the city it is higher but not so bad. Seems to be coming down a bit really.
Jaahn
TheHeaths said
12:43 PM Apr 28, 2018
In my opinion, there is no more risk of the gas tank being damaged in a collision, than there is of the fuel tank in the tow vehicle being damaged in a collision.
In fact, the gas tank is probably more strongly made and less likely to be damaged than the fuel tank is.
As for cost, it is a minor consideration really, compared to fuel for the travelling, camp sites, or food costs.
The other consideration is, if not gas, how would you intend to cook, heat water, or otherwise replace the gas uses needed for normal travel requirements?
-- Edited by TheHeaths on Saturday 28th of April 2018 12:45:46 PM
Hot Water said
03:05 PM Apr 28, 2018
i am working on making all the appliances in the van electric and eliminating the gas entirely. 3 x 120ah Gel Cells and 3000W inverter, plus 1200W of Solar Panels.
-- Edited by Hot Water on Saturday 28th of April 2018 03:06:09 PM
Ozzie_Traveller said
07:19 PM Apr 28, 2018
G'day Mark
I have seen film [the myth busters from the US] dropping a full LP Gas cylinder from a helicopter at 100 metres above ground level
The bottle bounced - bent and buckled sure, but it bounced ... it did not go 'bang'
Hope this helps
Phil
Peter_n_Margaret said
07:29 PM Apr 28, 2018
Hot Water wrote:
i am working on making all the appliances in the van electric and eliminating the gas entirely. 3 x 120ah Gel Cells and 3000W inverter, plus 1200W of Solar Panels.
Ditto.
Diesel heating and hot water, electric refrigeration and coffee etc. The only gas left is cooking and that is about 1kg per month. Eventually that will go too and we will cook with electric induction.
Gas is MUCH more flammable that diesel or petrol and also has the problem of creating CO inside. It is also expensive, hard to get in remote areas and it is heavy.
Lots of good reasons to get rid of it. Old habits die hard.
Cheers,
Peter
Warren-Pat_01 said
08:42 PM Apr 28, 2018
A mechanic I know says the only use for gas is in a bottle on a BBQ! And yet in the past few weeks there have been some serious accidents at people's homes due to leaking/faulty BBQs in North Qld.
I have a 30L autogas bottle under my car (had one in the GQ as well) but taking the correct procedures, it is safe. It is serviced regularly by Diesel-Gas Australia specialists - without it on the car my fuel bill would be much higher than it is. Would I drive through a bush fire? Probably not. If I really had to, I would turn the gas off at the tap.
When I travel with the van on the back, the cylinders are always turned off when in transit. Any flammable gas, liquid has its dangers - one just cannot get too complacent.
Aus-Kiwi said
09:00 PM Apr 28, 2018
Bottle itself is fine . Leaky hoses and connections is the issue ., we only have gas for hot water and stove now . Bbq outside . Diesel heater .
Hot Water said
12:49 AM Apr 29, 2018
Peter_n_Margaret wrote:
Ditto.
Diesel heating and hot water, electric refrigeration and coffee etc. The only gas left is cooking and that is about 1kg per month. Eventually that will go too and we will cook with electric induction.
its good to see that someone shares my goal of creating a fully electric van. good thing is electricity from my panels is free and renewable and non polluting, unfortunately i cant say the same for gas though.
unfortunately i dont have diesel for heating or for hot water but i am currently building a DC battery powered instant electric water heater of 4500W with the use of my van GEL batteries which can easily supply the hot water needs of the shower and sink. because it is instantaneous it doesnt heat water all day in a tank and waste energy from the GEL batteries 24/7 like the off shelf models do. the same gel batteries can also run other things in the van like the kettle and heater with the aid of the 3000w inverter.
-- Edited by Hot Water on Sunday 29th of April 2018 12:50:30 AM
Jaahn said
09:41 AM Apr 29, 2018
Hot Water wrote:
Its good to see that someone shares my goal of creating a fully electric van. good thing is electricity from my panels is free and renewable and non polluting, unfortunately i cant say the same for gas though.
unfortunately i dont have diesel for heating or for hot water but i am currently building a DC battery powered instant electric water heater of 4500W with the use of my van GEL batteries which can easily supply the hot water needs of the shower and sink. because it is instantaneous it doesnt heat water all day in a tank and waste energy from the GEL batteries 24/7 like the off shelf models do. the same gel batteries can also run other things in the van like the kettle and heater with the aid of the 3000w inverter.
Hi Hot Water
I hope your calculations add up to do this. Big power use out of gel batteries,eg 450 A, will stress them out a lot and will also need lots of solar to recharge them quickly. You might need more battery storage than that too. Perhaps you should look at Lithium batteries, also expensive, if you really want to go all electric.
However seems to me you are making your life difficult and building an expensive setup, to avoid a cheap and easy setup most people are happy with.
Your choice though, good luck !
Jaahn
Hot Water said
05:47 PM Apr 29, 2018
Jaahn wrote:
Hi Hot Water
I hope your calculations add up to do this. Big power use out of gel batteries,eg 450 A, will stress them out a lot and will also need lots of solar to recharge them quickly. You might need more battery storage than that too. Perhaps you should look at Lithium batteries, also expensive, if you really want to go all electric.
However seems to me you are making your life difficult and building an expensive setup, to avoid a cheap and easy setup most people are happy with.
Your choice though, good luck !
Jaahn
Actually, i am testing this same setup on my house first, as i want to take my house off grid. my calculations should be ok, as we will only take short showers 3-4 minutes so not much drain from such large capacity batteries.
i hear you about the costs, but cheap is not always the best and most convenient option.
if everone keeps with the status quo and uses gas, then things will never become more convenient and better ways of doing things wont ever be found.
yes, lithium will be lighter, but much higher startup costs so i will stick with GEL as they have high surge capacity as most lead acids do and should suit this application well. yes, maybe i will add another 120 aH for reserve power.
actually i was going to use approx. 500Ah of batteries anyway, so it isnt really any extra expense for me.
regards,
Mark
-- Edited by Hot Water on Sunday 29th of April 2018 05:49:10 PM
-- Edited by Hot Water on Sunday 29th of April 2018 07:52:16 PM
TheHeaths said
07:48 PM Apr 29, 2018
Good luck with setting your van up with the system. You certainly seem to know what you are looking at and aiming for.
As a last comment from myself, just be aware that any batteries that you add, and panels you put on, will all come off of your allowable load when weighing the van, unless you are in the process of building the van and then they can be included in the Tare weight.
Are you building the van, or adding to an existing unit?
Hot Water said
07:54 PM Apr 29, 2018
TheHeaths wrote:
Good luck with setting your van up with the system. You certainly seem to know what you are looking at and aiming for.
As a last comment from myself, just be aware that any batteries that you add, and panels you put on, will all come off of your allowable load when weighing the van, unless you are in the process of building the van and then they can be included in the Tare weight.
Are you building the van, or adding to an existing unit?
just retrofitting an existing van which i will buy from a relative.
TheHeaths said
08:08 PM Apr 29, 2018
In that case, be careful with the weights I mentioned.
Many vans only have a load allowance of 3 - 400 kg, which is taken up very quickly with water and the like. Looking at the amount of batteries you are considering will likely see 120 - 150 kg of any load allowance gone, and then solar panels will likely take another 50 - 100 kgs depending how many you add. You will very soon be overweight, and may also find issues with tow ball weight or stability, depending where you need to put the batteries in the van. (Load allowance is the ATM on the VIN plate, less the Tare weight, so check the van VIN plate before going to far, in case it isn't going to work for you.)
Not looking to put you off, but just mentioning things that you may not be aware of and have not considered as yet.
All from me for now, so good luck and hope to read how you get it all together.
Hot Water said
09:46 PM Apr 29, 2018
TheHeaths wrote:
In that case, be careful with the weights I mentioned.
Many vans only have a load allowance of 3 - 400 kg, which is taken up very quickly with water and the like. Looking at the amount of batteries you are considering will likely see 120 - 150 kg of any load allowance gone, and then solar panels will likely take another 50 - 100 kgs depending how many you add. You will very soon be overweight, and may also find issues with tow ball weight or stability, depending where you need to put the batteries in the van. (Load allowance is the ATM on the VIN plate, less the Tare weight, so check the van VIN plate before going to far, in case it isn't going to work for you.)
thanks Ian, i will look into this weight issue and see what i find.
Tony Bev said
10:15 PM Apr 30, 2018
I will stick my neck out , and say that over 95% of Recreation Vehicles have LPG
The secret (for me), is to ensure that the gas is turned off at the bottle, when travelling
Hot Water said
09:23 AM May 1, 2018
Tony Bev wrote:
I will stick my neck out , and say that over 95% of Recreation Vehicles have LPG
The secret (for me), is to ensure that the gas is turned off at the bottle, when travelling
is it LPG or Propane like BBQ GAS?
TheHeaths said
09:43 AM May 1, 2018
The bottled gas used in vans is generally the same as BBQ gas, and is filled from the same tanks as those when you go to get a refill.
Some people do refill their own bottles somehow, and I am unsure how they do that, but I also believe they are using the BBQ gas.
rockylizard said
09:54 AM May 1, 2018
Hot Water wrote:
is it LPG or Propane like BBQ GAS?
Gday...
Here ya go HW - this'll cover any and all the names you might be looking for as a description -
thanks John, but i thought LPG like what you put into cars is different from your swap n go 9 kg bottled gas? regards, Mark
edit: found it. actually autogas can be a miture of BOTH propane and butane, so its not always the same as bbq gas. bbq gas is 100% propane ONLY. see the link below.
I will stick my neck out , and say that over 95% of Recreation Vehicles have LPG
The secret (for me), is to ensure that the gas is turned off at the bottle, when travelling
is it LPG or Propane like BBQ GAS?
Hello Hot Water
As John (Rockylizard, and The Heaths, have already pointed out, the gas in a Recreation Vehicle, is called a different name by different people
In my home base town, in the south west of Western Australia, our local Bunnings shop, call it LPG
thanks Tony and others, much appreciate your help.
yes, i also did some searching and it seems it is exactly the same as BBQ gas (100% Propane) same as bunnings or any major petrol station refills if needed.
but i was surprised to find that it is not guaranteed to be the same composition as Automotive LPG.
Auto LPG is allowed to be blended with Butane it seems. so Auto LPG is sometimes a blend of Propane plus Butane, whereas BBQ Gas is pure 100% Propane only. so not 100% interchangeable.
Hi,
is it just me or do others NOT like the idea of bottled gas installed onto caravans and motorhomes?
is it safe and have any hazardous incidents happened in Australia before?
Also, is it costly to operate and re-fill?
Regards,
Mark
-- Edited by Hot Water on Friday 27th of April 2018 10:13:11 AM
Like any manufactured item it is made as safe (idiotproof) as is is possible by design & regulation.
Unfortunately sometimes an idiot comes along that that is even more idiotic than could have been forecast and beats the system.
If you have a bottle inside a vehicle it should be there as short a time as possible. This is because it is most likely unrestrained and also if it is leaking, you want as little gas as possible inside the vehicle. Make sure that you have the cabin fan drawing air from outside, and the bottle behind you. Hopefully the leaked gas (which is heavier than air and therefore falls to the floor of the car) will be blown out through the car's positive vents (Usually located near the rear wheel arches. And of course - DON'T SMOKE anywhere near the gas bottle.
Gas installations in motor homes and caravans are designed with vents to allow any leaked gas to escape. Therefore the systems are as safe as can reasonably be made.
Don't ya mean the 'system' beats them, Delta
Me, it doesn't scare me at all. I take precautions as needed and have gas on board and use it. A must have item when on the road travelling around. IMO.
are you concerned about a possible impact to the gas bottle or hoses if a car hits it?
No not really. Once we choose to go on the road it is a risk anyway. As I said, I have the gas on board and use it for my 3 way fridge, full gas stove, Truma gas heater, Suburban hot water heater and even have a bayonete fitting on ouside of aluminium teepee for the Baby Q when needed. I do have a 4.5kg bottle of gas for that as well though. Fellow travellers I have come across mostly have the same.
I never use anything unless I am there with it or at least in sight.
If you look into any accidents about gas, mostly, it was because of something silly being done. Gas bottles are very safe really.
Don't let it scare you HW. It is good to have around. If you set up for 240v only you must always go to CVP or use a Genie. You will miss some great places that way.
Think, first then use. Have a great play in the playground.
Many many caravans have been involved in a road crash. Every one of them would have at least 1 bottle, more likely 2 fitted.
I am yet to see a bottle causing a fire in a crash.
Hi Mark
There is some small risk with LPG but as said manageable with common sense. I have never seen any serious problems over the years using it. Less of a problem than the 50 - 70 liters of very flammable petrol in a fuel tank that I drove around with for the last 50 years. No problem either.
Relax and enjoy the travel. The cost is OK and not excessive. Out of the city it is higher but not so bad. Seems to be coming down a bit really.
Jaahn
In my opinion, there is no more risk of the gas tank being damaged in a collision, than there is of the fuel tank in the tow vehicle being damaged in a collision.
In fact, the gas tank is probably more strongly made and less likely to be damaged than the fuel tank is.
As for cost, it is a minor consideration really, compared to fuel for the travelling, camp sites, or food costs.
The other consideration is, if not gas, how would you intend to cook, heat water, or otherwise replace the gas uses needed for normal travel requirements?
-- Edited by TheHeaths on Saturday 28th of April 2018 12:45:46 PM
i am working on making all the appliances in the van electric and eliminating the gas entirely. 3 x 120ah Gel Cells and 3000W inverter, plus 1200W of Solar Panels.
-- Edited by Hot Water on Saturday 28th of April 2018 03:06:09 PM
I have seen film [the myth busters from the US] dropping a full LP Gas cylinder from a helicopter at 100 metres above ground level
The bottle bounced - bent and buckled sure, but it bounced ... it did not go 'bang'
Hope this helps
Phil
Ditto.
Diesel heating and hot water, electric refrigeration and coffee etc. The only gas left is cooking and that is about 1kg per month. Eventually that will go too and we will cook with electric induction.
Gas is MUCH more flammable that diesel or petrol and also has the problem of creating CO inside. It is also expensive, hard to get in remote areas and it is heavy.
Lots of good reasons to get rid of it. Old habits die hard.
Cheers,
Peter
I have a 30L autogas bottle under my car (had one in the GQ as well) but taking the correct procedures, it is safe. It is serviced regularly by Diesel-Gas Australia specialists - without it on the car my fuel bill would be much higher than it is. Would I drive through a bush fire? Probably not. If I really had to, I would turn the gas off at the tap.
When I travel with the van on the back, the cylinders are always turned off when in transit. Any flammable gas, liquid has its dangers - one just cannot get too complacent.
-- Edited by Hot Water on Sunday 29th of April 2018 12:50:30 AM
-- Edited by Hot Water on Sunday 29th of April 2018 05:49:10 PM
-- Edited by Hot Water on Sunday 29th of April 2018 07:52:16 PM
As a last comment from myself, just be aware that any batteries that you add, and panels you put on, will all come off of your allowable load when weighing the van, unless you are in the process of building the van and then they can be included in the Tare weight.
Are you building the van, or adding to an existing unit?
just retrofitting an existing van which i will buy from a relative.
Many vans only have a load allowance of 3 - 400 kg, which is taken up very quickly with water and the like. Looking at the amount of batteries you are considering will likely see 120 - 150 kg of any load allowance gone, and then solar panels will likely take another 50 - 100 kgs depending how many you add. You will very soon be overweight, and may also find issues with tow ball weight or stability, depending where you need to put the batteries in the van. (Load allowance is the ATM on the VIN plate, less the Tare weight, so check the van VIN plate before going to far, in case it isn't going to work for you.)
Not looking to put you off, but just mentioning things that you may not be aware of and have not considered as yet.
All from me for now, so good luck and hope to read how you get it all together.
The secret (for me), is to ensure that the gas is turned off at the bottle, when travelling
is it LPG or Propane like BBQ GAS?
Some people do refill their own bottles somehow, and I am unsure how they do that, but I also believe they are using the BBQ gas.
Gday...
Here ya go HW - this'll cover any and all the names you might be looking for as a description -
LPG, LPG Gas, LP Gas, BBQ Gas, Propane, Autogas or what?
Cheers - John
thanks John, but i thought LPG like what you put into cars is different from your swap n go 9 kg bottled gas? regards, Mark
edit: found it. actually autogas can be a miture of BOTH propane and butane, so its not always the same as bbq gas. bbq gas is 100% propane ONLY. see the link below.
http://www.elgas.com.au/blog/492-what-is-lpg-lpg-gas-lp-gas
-- Edited by Hot Water on Tuesday 1st of May 2018 10:19:49 AM
Hello Hot Water
As John (Rockylizard, and The Heaths, have already pointed out, the gas in a Recreation Vehicle, is called a different name by different people
In my home base town, in the south west of Western Australia, our local Bunnings shop, call it LPG
thanks Tony and others, much appreciate your help.
yes, i also did some searching and it seems it is exactly the same as BBQ gas (100% Propane) same as bunnings or any major petrol station refills if needed.
but i was surprised to find that it is not guaranteed to be the same composition as Automotive LPG.
Auto LPG is allowed to be blended with Butane it seems. so Auto LPG is sometimes a blend of Propane plus Butane, whereas BBQ Gas is pure 100% Propane only. so not 100% interchangeable.
regards,
Mark