Not something most of us like to contemplate but it is inevitable for all.
I've started this thread because my death is something which has been popping into my mind more often in the past few years, I'm early sixties so it's not surprising or inappropriate that it should. In order to give my own thinking process a frame of reference I'd really like to hear other people's perspective upon this topic and, as I suspect most people here are 60+, this seems a good forum from which to seek such wisdom.
I don't want this thread to be an argument about who is right or wrong - we're all correct in whatever way we see our own death. If you see it through the context of religion then that is right for you, if you see it in an assisted dying light or similar than that is right for you too.
I'll say that although I was raised a Catholic I long ago rejected all religion and it has no bearing upon my current views regarding mortality.
The Australian Bureau of Statistics currently puts the average age of death at 80 for males and 85 for females so, on average, I have about 17 years left. Of course I could last to 105 but, on average, I won't.
My expectation is that I have 10 to 15 good, healthy, active years in front of me and after that this abused body will be wearing out rather rapidly and I think the warranty will have expired by then :)
So... what to do?
I have watched others growing old; some have done so with grace and dignity and reasonable health but most have not. For some I have observed, their old age has been a living hell. No point in going into details, by this age we all know the sort of issues to which I refer.
My current plan is to hit the road over the next six to twelve months and make the most of the years remaining but, I know, there will come a time when I no longer have the strength to collect firewood or hitch up the caravan - after that it's a slow decline and there is no way in this world I wish to live if someone has to help me go to the toilet or the like and it is just going to be downhill from there. Too much pride perhaps? But that's the way I am.
I think that will be the time for me to go and I'll take matters into my own hands.
Of course this is not a perfect plan, I may have a stroke tomorrow and be incapable of controlling my destiny but I work on the basis that we can only control that which is within our control and the rest will take its own course.
I wonder how others see their death?
Aus-Kiwi said
02:37 PM Apr 1, 2018
Donāt know . Iāll be dead too !!
fwdoz said
03:12 PM Apr 1, 2018
Tough topic for some Mike, but I think there will be quite a few of us who think about when might be our time. My wife & I have talked about it every now & then, just to be aware of how each of us would proceed should something happen.
Currently waiting for my biopsy results & in the weeks leading up to it, I have been giving it a lot of thought. The main thing is that I am comfortable with where I am in life & should I get bad news, then it is something that I have already accepted. One thing I will not do is sit around & mope. I will be getting off my arse & doing as much travelling as I can. Go out with a bang as one might say.
Prior to 50 I always feared death, but now it does not bother me as much. Though I hope I have many more years to go, when the time comes I will be prepared. Everything between now & then is a bonus.
JA2340 said
03:45 PM Apr 1, 2018
+1 and I have an "arrangement" - neither of us is religious, so we want the physical bodily remains to be useful once we're gone.
I would have no objection to the body being cremated, and the ashes scattered in someone's rose garden, or the body being dropped in a hole and a good tree planted above.
Whatever happens will be well beyond my caring, and the people who will make the decisions will have no real need to follow my wishes.
As I am nearing 70, and with both my parents still alive well into 90's I suspect I have a decent chance of beating the "averages" unless something untoward happens. But, I don;t dwell on it. Live life to the full every day, and no regrets!
I'd rather slide sideways into the grave having had a hell of a ride, than quietly and slowly degenerate and disappear without so much as a whimper!
Plain Truth said
05:46 PM Apr 1, 2018
Mike ,I am 76 yrs old,my wife is 74 and needs a wheelie to get around,just came back from a month caravan trip around the High Country.
Now we are planning a trip over the GAR to the Riverina,leaving in 2 weeks time.
Yep enjoy while we can .. Iām telling family to celebrate my / our lives .
jules47 said
06:35 PM Apr 1, 2018
Family all know what is required when the time comes - simple, no fuss, and under the big tree!
Desert Dweller said
05:11 AM Apr 2, 2018
We're both being cremated, ashes scattered at our favorite location, no funeral just a small family BBQ in the back garden with a few songs played that we've requested.
I retired a few days after I turned 60 (no tax on super), when I was working I sometimes thought that I'd never get to that stage. That was 8 wonderful years ago.
Every good thing comes to an end eventually, it's important to enjoy the ''here & now''.
We plan our travels no more than 6 months into the future, not what we're going to be doing in 3 years time.
Our parents were keen caravaner/extensive travelers in their day, they ended up in nursing homes with dementia, no speech, no memories, dribbling & eating spoon fed vitamized slop until they died.
Heart breaking to see.
-- Edited by Desert Dweller on Monday 2nd of April 2018 07:36:35 AM
Leo said
08:10 AM Apr 2, 2018
There is a need to ditch the stereotypes of old age. The stereotypes are almost always negative and divisive. There is far too much wedge politics being played by political parties federally. It is causing older people to feel useless and unwanted.
On 'losing one's capacities' and one day needing support and care, one wonders how the disabled from birth or from early life, ever get on. Because most seem to get a lot out of life and believe they can make a difference, that life is worth living for them and worth fighting for. That fellow Stephen Hawkings, for instance.
Mike Harding,
I enjoy your posts and the reason and life experience that are obvious. Long may you contribute and don't allow the political and media nags and other scoundrels - particularly the jealous types whose only interest is in relieving older people of their hard-won assets and forcing them into cells in nursing homes to be fleeced further - divert attention away from the necessary and long overdue revision by the Boomers of what it means to get older. Maybe those serial nags on the talk shows should be having a look at their own uselessness and lack of contribution to the economy.
Bring on the action!
Tamey said
10:48 AM Apr 2, 2018
IN Victoria, you can now make arrangements for your end of life by completing the required forms:
!. Appointment Of A Medical Decision Maker
This is basically a revised format to the previous Medical Power Of Attorney.
two witnesses are required as follows;
The first witness must be either a registered medical practitioner (Doctor), OR an authorised witness (JP). Only one of these prime witnesses are required, not both on the same document.
The second witness can be anyone over the age of 18 years that is not a nominated decision maker or family member. There is no specific qualification attached to this person.
This aspect has not changed from the Medical Power of Attorney that has been around for a number of years.
2, Advanced Care Directive
This aspect of the new legislation provides the client with the ability to provide in advance, very specific and detailed instructions to medical staff or someone they have nominated as their representative, regarding what treatment they do or do not want when the time comes. This is a significant change to the Act. Appropriately, the Act specifies that this level of detail about future medical planning must be done with the assistance of a qualified registered medical practitioner. The person needs to discuss with their Doctor what would be the consequences of any direct instructions they set out for their future medical treatment.
Hope this is a help
Tamey
moamajohn said
11:16 AM Apr 2, 2018
Hi Mike ,A most enjoyable read.Your last paragraph said it all ,live your life to the best of your ability and let the karma train do the rest.However one does not need to arrive at the pearly gates in pristine condition either ,I intend to be a bit ragged about the edges and a lot older too one hopes .Cheers.
Gets my vote lol...Do more Fishing and you wont wanna die :)..
Magnarc said
12:49 PM Apr 2, 2018
Many thanks for the post Mike. Its a subject that some find hard to contemplate but, we begin to die from the moment of birth so, in my humble opinion, get on with it as long as you are able. I am 80 and SWMBO is 76 and we are so lucky to enjoy good health, ok there are the usual aches and pains, but I don't take any pills and I like to think that the brain is mainly functioning as it should apart from memory being a bit dicky especially with names. I can only put it down to good Pommy peasant stock. So all nomads should get out there and get on with it, death will come when it comes and it is something we have no control over so give it your best shot while you can. While ever I can hitch the van up we will be on the road and enjoying what ever time we have left. Been touring for 20 yrs and I reckon that we have only seen 10% of this great country.
Agree with you 100% Mike decisions have been made and they do not include nursing homes!!!!!!
dorian said
02:50 PM Apr 2, 2018
Maybe it's an omen, but the solution to my daily cryptogram was ...
Q: Do you know what the death rate around here is?
A: One per person.
hako said
03:12 PM Apr 2, 2018
Great post Mike and I share your sentiments. We've had friends falling off their perches at an increasing rate and accept that we all get our turn. I think this association with death in our senior years lessens the death fear in us, but when it concerns someone young it really can hurt.
Regards
Ge said
05:09 PM Apr 2, 2018
Aus-Kiwi wrote:
Donāt know . Iāll be dead too !!
Hi AK i suppose you have all ready tried this as i know you are up to speed and no what your doing.
Try changing your keyboard to American if it is set at English at the moment, It might solve the typing problem, might not.
Debate is about to start in WA about voluntary euthanasia. I have a nasty fear that it will end with a mish-mash of legal mumbo jumbo and volumes of silly rules just as it did in Victoria.
Opponents fail to acknowledge the word "voluntary" in the title. If I want to go, I will and I DO NOT need or want the involvement of MPs, lawyers, do-gooders, doctors, police and/or anyone trying to force his religious beliefs on me.
It's MY decision. I will make it and carry it out with the help of Dr Philip Nitske (spelling?) and his Exit organisation.
It's not at present particularly easy, but it's not impossible, either.
Andrew Denton has been doing some really good work on this lately. More power to his arm.
Watching a report on TV tonight about the appalling treatment of oldies in nursing homes only strengthened my resolve.
Here's hoping for a sensible result for sensible Australians.
Cheers, Tony
Mike Harding said
07:00 PM Apr 16, 2018
tonyd wrote:
Opponents fail to acknowledge the word "voluntary" in the title. If I want to go, I will and I DO NOT need or want the involvement of MPs, lawyers, do-gooders, doctors, police and/or anyone trying to force his religious beliefs on me. It's MY decision.
Many thanks to all who replied. Sorry I'm a bit late coming back but I have been deep bush in Gippsland for two weeks of gold prospecting well out the range of all but HF Amateur Radio :)
tonyd puts it well I think; it is an individual decision and should be respected as such.
It's not death which concerns me (that'll be like it was before I was born) but more so the possibility of a slow, unhappy and pointless decline over, perhaps, years. Not a good way to end a life I have lived to the full and enjoyed.
Death
Not something most of us like to contemplate but it is inevitable for
all.
I've started this thread because my death is something which has been
popping into my mind more often in the past few years, I'm early
sixties so it's not surprising or inappropriate that it should. In
order to give my own thinking process a frame of reference I'd really
like to hear other people's perspective upon this topic and, as I
suspect most people here are 60+, this seems a good forum from which
to seek such wisdom.
I don't want this thread to be an argument about who is right or
wrong - we're all correct in whatever way we see our own death. If
you see it through the context of religion then that is right for
you, if you see it in an assisted dying light or similar than that is
right for you too.
I'll say that although I was raised a Catholic I long ago rejected
all religion and it has no bearing upon my current views regarding
mortality.
The Australian Bureau of Statistics currently puts the average age of
death at 80 for males and 85 for females so, on average, I have about
17 years left. Of course I could last to 105 but, on average, I
won't.
My expectation is that I have 10 to 15 good, healthy, active years in
front of me and after that this abused body will be wearing out
rather rapidly and I think the warranty will have expired by then :)
So... what to do?
I have watched others growing old; some have done so with grace and
dignity and reasonable health but most have not. For some I have
observed, their old age has been a living hell. No point in going
into details, by this age we all know the sort of issues to which I
refer.
My current plan is to hit the road over the next six to twelve months
and make the most of the years remaining but, I know, there will come
a time when I no longer have the strength to collect firewood or
hitch up the caravan - after that it's a slow decline and there is no
way in this world I wish to live if someone has to help me go to the
toilet or the like and it is just going to be downhill from there.
Too much pride perhaps? But that's the way I am.
I think that will be the time for me to go and I'll take matters into
my own hands.
Of course this is not a perfect plan, I may have a stroke tomorrow
and be incapable of controlling my destiny but I work on the basis
that we can only control that which is within our control and the
rest will take its own course.
I wonder how others see their death?
Tough topic for some Mike, but I think there will be quite a few of us who think about when might be our time. My wife & I have talked about it every now & then, just to be aware of how each of us would proceed should something happen.
Currently waiting for my biopsy results & in the weeks leading up to it, I have been giving it a lot of thought. The main thing is that I am comfortable with where I am in life & should I get bad news, then it is something that I have already accepted. One thing I will not do is sit around & mope. I will be getting off my arse & doing as much travelling as I can. Go out with a bang as one might say.
Prior to 50 I always feared death, but now it does not bother me as much. Though I hope I have many more years to go, when the time comes I will be prepared. Everything between now & then is a bonus.
I would have no objection to the body being cremated, and the ashes scattered in someone's rose garden, or the body being dropped in a hole and a good tree planted above.
Whatever happens will be well beyond my caring, and the people who will make the decisions will have no real need to follow my wishes.
As I am nearing 70, and with both my parents still alive well into 90's I suspect I have a decent chance of beating the "averages" unless something untoward happens. But, I don;t dwell on it. Live life to the full every day, and no regrets!
I'd rather slide sideways into the grave having had a hell of a ride, than quietly and slowly degenerate and disappear without so much as a whimper!
Mike ,I am 76 yrs old,my wife is 74 and needs a wheelie to get around,just came back from a month caravan trip around the High Country.
Now we are planning a trip over the GAR to the Riverina,leaving in 2 weeks time.
To busy living to worry about dying.
What ever will be,will be.
We're both being cremated, ashes scattered at our favorite location, no funeral just a small family BBQ in the back garden with a few songs played that we've requested.
I retired a few days after I turned 60 (no tax on super), when I was working I sometimes thought that I'd never get to that stage. That was 8 wonderful years ago.
Every good thing comes to an end eventually, it's important to enjoy the ''here & now''.
We plan our travels no more than 6 months into the future, not what we're going to be doing in 3 years time.
Our parents were keen caravaner/extensive travelers in their day, they ended up in nursing homes with dementia, no speech, no memories, dribbling & eating spoon fed vitamized slop until they died.
Heart breaking to see.
-- Edited by Desert Dweller on Monday 2nd of April 2018 07:36:35 AM
On 'losing one's capacities' and one day needing support and care, one wonders how the disabled from birth or from early life, ever get on. Because most seem to get a lot out of life and believe they can make a difference, that life is worth living for them and worth fighting for. That fellow Stephen Hawkings, for instance.
Mike Harding,
I enjoy your posts and the reason and life experience that are obvious. Long may you contribute and don't allow the political and media nags and other scoundrels - particularly the jealous types whose only interest is in relieving older people of their hard-won assets and forcing them into cells in nursing homes to be fleeced further - divert attention away from the necessary and long overdue revision by the Boomers of what it means to get older. Maybe those serial nags on the talk shows should be having a look at their own uselessness and lack of contribution to the economy.
Bring on the action!
!. Appointment Of A Medical Decision Maker
This is basically a revised format to the previous Medical Power Of Attorney.
two witnesses are required as follows;
The first witness must be either a registered medical practitioner (Doctor), OR an authorised witness (JP). Only one of these prime witnesses are required, not both on the same document.
The second witness can be anyone over the age of 18 years that is not a nominated decision maker or family member. There is no specific qualification attached to this person.
This aspect has not changed from the Medical Power of Attorney that has been around for a number of years.
2, Advanced Care Directive
This aspect of the new legislation provides the client with the ability to provide in advance, very specific and detailed instructions to medical staff or someone they have nominated as their representative, regarding what treatment they do or do not want when the time comes. This is a significant change to the Act. Appropriately, the Act specifies that this level of detail about future medical planning must be done with the assistance of a qualified registered medical practitioner. The person needs to discuss with their Doctor what would be the consequences of any direct instructions they set out for their future medical treatment.
Hope this is a help
Tamey
Hi Mike ,A most enjoyable read.Your last paragraph said it all ,live your life to the best of your ability and let the karma train do the rest.However one does not need to arrive at the pearly gates in pristine condition either ,I intend to be a bit ragged about the edges and a lot older too one hopes .Cheers.
Gets my vote lol...Do more Fishing and you wont wanna die :)..
Many thanks for the post Mike. Its a subject that some find hard to contemplate but, we begin to die from the moment of birth so, in my humble opinion, get on with it as long as you are able. I am 80 and SWMBO is 76 and we are so lucky to enjoy good health, ok there are the usual aches and pains, but I don't take any pills and I like to think that the brain is mainly functioning as it should apart from memory being a bit dicky especially with names. I can only put it down to good Pommy peasant stock. So all nomads should get out there and get on with it, death will come when it comes and it is something we have no control over so give it your best shot while you can. While ever I can hitch the van up we will be on the road and enjoying what ever time we have left. Been touring for 20 yrs and I reckon that we have only seen 10% of this great country.
Agree with you 100% Mike decisions have been made and they do not include nursing homes!!!!!!
A: One per person.
Regards
Hi AK i suppose you have all ready tried this as i know you are up to speed and no what your doing.
Try changing your keyboard to American if it is set at English at the moment, It might solve the typing problem, might not.
Hope it doe's as it will make my big head bigger.
Regards Ge
www.allenandunwin.com/browse/books/general-books/current-affairs-politics/A-Good-Life-to-the-End-Ken-Hillman-9781760294816
Opponents fail to acknowledge the word "voluntary" in the title. If I want to go, I will and I DO NOT need or want the involvement of MPs, lawyers, do-gooders, doctors, police and/or anyone trying to force his religious beliefs on me.
It's MY decision. I will make it and carry it out with the help of Dr Philip Nitske (spelling?) and his Exit organisation.
It's not at present particularly easy, but it's not impossible, either.
Andrew Denton has been doing some really good work on this lately. More power to his arm.
Watching a report on TV tonight about the appalling treatment of oldies in nursing homes only strengthened my resolve.
Here's hoping for a sensible result for sensible Australians.
Cheers, Tony
Many thanks to all who replied. Sorry I'm a bit late coming back but I have been deep bush in Gippsland for two weeks of gold prospecting well out the range of all but HF Amateur Radio :)
tonyd puts it well I think; it is an individual decision and should be respected as such.
It's not death which concerns me (that'll be like it was before I was born) but more so the possibility of a slow, unhappy and pointless decline over, perhaps, years. Not a good way to end a life I have lived to the full and enjoyed.
Your comments have heartened me - thank you :)