Hi all! Hubby and I are progressing towards the big journey from Melbourne. House is sold, bought a 2006 Landcruiser and a 2012 Jayco Sterling which we pick up tomorrow! Yay!
I've used your site to do so much research over the past 10 months, and it's been invaluable. Could I please get your assistance with a question. The caravan we've bought has Simplicity Suspension, but I can't work out if that means we don't need some sort of anti-sway and weight distribution system also.
We'd greatly appreciate any advice.
Thanks for your time,
Deanne
Dougwe said
02:24 PM Sep 10, 2017
Welcome to the gang DickandDee, enjoy here and out in the playground.
Glad you have have clean and not lurking anymore.
Now, if it was me getting your set up I would hook everything together and see how it all performs for a while first. I have what is in my signature, towing 2700kg and a 20' aluminium tent. So far have no need for either things you mention. The Tug and TeePee sit nice and level and I sit on around the 93kmh max speed. I have just come down from Townsville and currenty in the Yass area but heading off again sooner than soon without any wobles at all. Works for me anyway.
Keep Safe on the roads and out there.
DickandDee said
02:35 PM Sep 10, 2017
Thanks Doug! :)
Fred K said
04:19 PM Sep 10, 2017
DickandDee
Simplicity Suspension is just that - a form of suspension
I have the same suspension and find it excellent but am sure others will have differing opinion
The need for sway control and WDH have nothing to do with suspension in normal towing other than keeping everything nice an level when you cross drains or humps etc
fred k
Steve11 said
05:40 PM Sep 10, 2017
hi Dougwe, sounds like a nice set up, but have you had any stiffer springs or air bags added to the Holden, with that size van i imagine that with standad set up you would not be sitting level? i have a ford everest and needed wdh to bring it level even with 2 T.
thanks steve
Dougwe said
06:24 PM Sep 10, 2017
Yep. I have had an extra leaf fitted to both rear springs Steve. Raised the back 50mm and added an extra 200kg to rear for goodies HOWEVER I don't use that extra 200kg. I like to load the back to weight in the book. I then know if things get a bit bumpy out there the Collie will handle it for me.
macka17 said
07:25 PM Sep 10, 2017
Simplicity susp is a heavy duty susp. Made in Vict, had licence for Military trailers for decades.
I believe he (Family firm) got sick and retired\Closed down??. Could be wrong.
Whoops sorry. That was the Hyland Hitch bloke. I had one on my van too.
I've had 4 vans with Symplicity. 3 Roadstar. 1 x Compass. All Semi offroaders. Magic. Great on corrugations. and give great control on bad surfaces. Really stabilised my vans.
That's not to say Full Air and Coil aren't better though. Some of them.
Fully rebuildable at factory too. Tandem. 4 hrs complete. On the day they were closing down for X-Mas.
We fronted down from Q'Land. They fixed. WITH A SMILE. Great service.
Bitumin.
Axles\leaves, Shockers. Are more than Fine.
Rough and off road. Simplicity, Coil. or Full Air much better. And costlier.
Make sure you get the 12in drums on brakes too. Gives you the 3.2ton. over 2.5 t for 10in. (Larger dia tube walls,Knuckles).
They are installable as a one piece unit too. Not in bits. Dead easy. One grinder. One Welder. Done.
-- Edited by macka17 on Sunday 10th of September 2017 07:27:59 PM
Waytra said
08:05 PM Sep 10, 2017
Hi DickandDee, we have Simplicity Suspension on our 23' Supreme Territory. It is a load sharing, independant suspension that I find awesome to tow. I do however, use load levellers on the van. It does not stop sway, but I have found that because it is load sharing, the chances of getting up a sway, is greatly reduced. Of course the best way to avoid sway, is make sure the van is level and the load correctly spread in the van. Have a great time on your travels.
-- Edited by Cupie on Sunday 10th of September 2017 09:14:03 PM
darjak said
09:03 AM Sep 11, 2017
Have travelled in my off road van with Simplicity Suspension (4t) since '06 haven't had a problem in any condition, easiest to do maintenance on just keep an eye on the polyurethane blocks for wear. Only takes about 1hr to change them if you do your own mechanical work, if not in QLD can get it done in Warwick.
I've always been taught when towing trailers to always be at least 60mm down in front, not level to add stability. There's a lot of caravans being towed that are nose up an accident waiting to happen in my option.
Darrell
macka17 said
09:51 AM Sep 11, 2017
Hi.
When I load\Balance my rigs for the off. I measure under front and rear wheel arches. (OF TUG) TOP of wheel rim to bottom of arch. Tyre pressures set and checked daily of course. (Own compressor "Thumper")
I like them to be within 1 inch of each other. Preferably less. With the tail slightly down.
That's with van\car loaded. With 3.75 Tinny on rack. 15hp Yammy fuel etc inside Patrol
PLUS.. I always carry a very heavy drawbar weight.
My 6.5mtr Roadstars. (Rear set suspensions). I stopped weighing at 350kg's. Usually. "shhhhh".
This Coromal Tandem, full height. (2 ton on tyres)
I'm running around 230ish kg.
Small singles. (16-17ft6) Normally around 150ish kg.
As long as rest of rig balanced..1\2 in down at nose of van with those loads you have a nicely set up van.
Oh. AND.... Any caravan designed and built with Rear set suspension units. and Long drawbar. Is, and always will be. much easier. Stable, to both tow. and reverse.
Than vans with either SHort tow bar. and or centre mounted susp units.
Basically. The LONGER (within reason of course) the "triangle". From ball to rear centre of susp. the more control it has. Along with the lesser weight on rear of van.rather than on drawbar ,
but not to extremes.
They all help. And the geometry? of the systems is interesting.
IE What affects which.
HEY.
WHO watched the Cowboys game last arvo.
Couldn't happen to a better team, hey. Losing .. that is. Arrogant SHarks.
Won it once in 50 yrs. thought they were kings of the castle. a Half empty (6 players missing) team, which was already out. (Cowboys) Knocked them off perch. Yesssssssssssssssss..
Something like Collingwood down in Vict hey. (Di says)
Let's just hope the Bronc's start playing footy again this w'end. Unlike the last 2 games when nobody was home most of the match.
Di said Who's fronting to win the Ping Pong down South this yr. Her son follows Richmond?.
Have a gud day all. My pills working a treat at present.
-- Edited by macka17 on Monday 11th of September 2017 09:59:09 AM
Cupie said
10:33 AM Sep 11, 2017
macka17 wrote:
HEY.
WHO watched the Cowboys game last arvo.
Couldn't happen to a better team, hey. Losing .. that is. Arrogant SHarks.
Won it once in 50 yrs. thought they were kings of the castle. a Half empty (6 players missing) team, which was already out. (Cowboys) Knocked them off perch. Yesssssssssssssssss..
Let's just hope the Bronc's start playing footy again this w'end. Unlike the last 2 games when nobody was home most of the match.
My pills working a treat at present.
-- Edited by macka17 on Monday 11th of September 2017 09:59:09 AM
Much edited above or snip as they say ..
Your comment about the Cowboys beat me to it. The great thing was that looser Gallen was the sharks captain. He must have a sad life with all those losses in big games ... Only won 1 SOO series & 1 GF! Ha Ha. (Still he's done far better than me though. Mine were only in schoolboys against Brisbane, Toowoomba & Gladstone along with a few undefeated local premierships in ages past. Our stars went on to rep for Qld & Australia, so my personal contribution was Bronco like I think.)
Can't believe how well the Cows are hanging in there without their stars. Such tenacity. Should get some sort of prize for their Queensland like effort.
The Bronks though are on another page. A most disappointing effort & perhaps Wayne has lost his mojo.
Plain Truth said
01:16 PM Sep 11, 2017
macka17 wrote:
Simplicity susp is a heavy duty susp. Made in Vict, had licence for Military trailers for decades.
I believe he (Family firm) got sick and retired\Closed down??. Could be wrong.
Whoops sorry. That was the Hyland Hitch bloke. I had one on my van too.
I've had 4 vans with Symplicity. 3 Roadstar. 1 x Compass. All Semi offroaders. Magic. Great on corrugations. and give great control on bad surfaces. Really stabilised my vans.
That's not to say Full Air and Coil aren't better though. Some of them.
Fully rebuildable at factory too. Tandem. 4 hrs complete. On the day they were closing down for X-Mas.
We fronted down from Q'Land. They fixed. WITH A SMILE. Great service.
Bitumin.
Axles\leaves, Shockers. Are more than Fine.
Rough and off road. Simplicity, Coil. or Full Air much better. And costlier.
Make sure you get the 12in drums on brakes too. Gives you the 3.2ton. over 2.5 t for 10in. (Larger dia tube walls,Knuckles).
They are installable as a one piece unit too. Not in bits. Dead easy. One grinder. One Welder. Done.
-- Edited by macka17 on Sunday 10th of September 2017 07:27:59 PM
Macka,I think the heavy duty suspension you are thinking of could be the MC2 suspension.https://www.tracktrailer.com.au/company-history/mc2-suspension/
macka17 said
04:49 PM Sep 11, 2017
PT.
Don't think so.
Simplicity with their centre swung leaf and hubs on ends have been round for yonks.
They had some Military trailers being assembled with them
when we were in having mine rebuilt.
But that was 15\16yrs ago.
I've also seen LARGE Army rigs up in Shoalwater bay where we nearly live (Yeppoon)
loaded up for the Singapore\US\AUS Manouvres every yr.
They had the Simplicity under them.
Been a lot of places with mine. had to winch myself out of a couple too.
Good. Solid suspensions.
As are a few others too.
A mix of H\D shocker with ext coil would be getting close to it..
I'd think.
Plain Truth said
08:23 AM Sep 12, 2017
Hi Macka,I see the simplicity suspension you mentioned came out a lot earlier than the MC2
suspension I was thinking of.
PeterD said
08:57 AM Sep 12, 2017
Pictured below is an extract from an industry towing guide I use. The information in this guide is provided by Toyota. You will note that it says "load level hitch req." I suggest you follow Toyota's recommendation no matter what the self opinionated on this form say against the requirement.
If you don't use WDH with high ball loads you are in danger of overloading. The vehicles commonly used to tow vans should have their load distributed evenly over the vehicle. If you add the maximum axle loads of a vehicle you will see that the result is only a small amount greater then the GVM. The problem with adding a van ball weight into the loading is you are imposing a lot of weight outside of the normal range. The ball weight being so far behind adds around 140% of its weight to the rear axle and removes around 40% of its from the front wheels. (The theory of levers explains this situation. You will have to calculate the actual figure by using the wheelbase of the tug and the length of distance the hitch is behind the front axle, the longer that distance the higher the actual percentage imposed on the rear axle.)
You need the WDH to reduce the loading somewhat on the rear axle and distribute that weight to the front wheels. Nissan and some other manufacturers specify how much you need to reduce the GVM of the tug with different ball load values to prevent rear axle overload and other effects caused by high ball loads. Where those figures are not supplied by the manufacturers you are duty bound to work out the down-rating figures yourself.
macka17 said
09:58 AM Sep 12, 2017
A LOT of yrs prior to PT.
I was using, from memory, 30 yrs ago
And that Says it all Pete.
USE WDH...... on any larger vans.
I used the round bar units on single axle 1450 on wheels vans too.
It does help steering. it does help stability.
It does (to me) give peace of mind.
Hi all! Hubby and I are progressing towards the big journey from Melbourne. House is sold, bought a 2006 Landcruiser and a 2012 Jayco Sterling which we pick up tomorrow! Yay!
I've used your site to do so much research over the past 10 months, and it's been invaluable. Could I please get your assistance with a question. The caravan we've bought has Simplicity Suspension, but I can't work out if that means we don't need some sort of anti-sway and weight distribution system also.
We'd greatly appreciate any advice.
Thanks for your time,
Deanne
Glad you have have clean and not lurking anymore.
Now, if it was me getting your set up I would hook everything together and see how it all performs for a while first. I have what is in my signature, towing 2700kg and a 20' aluminium tent. So far have no need for either things you mention. The Tug and TeePee sit nice and level and I sit on around the 93kmh max speed. I have just come down from Townsville and currenty in the Yass area but heading off again sooner than soon without any wobles at all. Works for me anyway.
Keep Safe on the roads and out there.
Simplicity Suspension is just that - a form of suspension
I have the same suspension and find it excellent but am sure others will have differing opinion
The need for sway control and WDH have nothing to do with suspension in normal towing other than keeping everything nice an level when you cross drains or humps etc
fred k
hi Dougwe, sounds like a nice set up, but have you had any stiffer springs or air bags added to the Holden, with that size van i imagine that with standad set up you would not be sitting level? i have a ford everest and needed wdh to bring it level even with 2 T.
thanks steve
Simplicity susp is a heavy duty susp.
Made in Vict, had licence for Military trailers for decades.
I believe he (Family firm) got sick and retired\Closed down??.
Could be wrong.
Whoops sorry. That was the Hyland Hitch bloke. I had one on my van too.
I've had 4 vans with Symplicity.
3 Roadstar. 1 x Compass. All Semi offroaders.
Magic. Great on corrugations. and give great control on bad surfaces.
Really stabilised my vans.
That's not to say Full Air and Coil aren't better though.
Some of them.
Fully rebuildable at factory too. Tandem. 4 hrs complete.
On the day they were closing down for X-Mas.
We fronted down from Q'Land. They fixed.
WITH A SMILE. Great service.
Bitumin.
Axles\leaves, Shockers. Are more than Fine.
Rough and off road.
Simplicity, Coil. or Full Air much better.
And costlier.
Make sure you get the 12in drums on brakes too. Gives you the 3.2ton.
over 2.5 t for 10in. (Larger dia tube walls,Knuckles).
They are installable as a one piece unit too. Not in bits.
Dead easy. One grinder. One Welder. Done.
-- Edited by macka17 on Sunday 10th of September 2017 07:27:59 PM
This might help ....
https://www.caravanworld.com.au/features/0906/feature-caravan-suspensions
edit ... Here are some other hints on caravan bits even one on WDHs
https://www.caravansplus.com.au/catalog/help-index.php
-- Edited by Cupie on Sunday 10th of September 2017 09:14:03 PM
I've always been taught when towing trailers to always be at least 60mm down in front, not level to add stability. There's a lot of caravans being towed that are nose up an accident waiting to happen in my option.
Darrell
Hi.
When I load\Balance my rigs for the off.
I measure under front and rear wheel arches. (OF TUG)
TOP of wheel rim to bottom of arch.
Tyre pressures set and checked daily of course. (Own compressor "Thumper")
I like them to be within 1 inch of each other.
Preferably less.
With the tail slightly down.
That's with van\car loaded. With 3.75 Tinny on rack.
15hp Yammy fuel etc inside Patrol
PLUS.. I always carry a very heavy drawbar weight.
My 6.5mtr Roadstars. (Rear set suspensions).
I stopped weighing at 350kg's. Usually. "shhhhh".
This Coromal Tandem, full height. (2 ton on tyres)
I'm running around 230ish kg.
Small singles. (16-17ft6) Normally around 150ish kg.
As long as rest of rig balanced..1\2 in down at nose of van
with those loads you have a nicely set up van.
Oh.
AND.... Any caravan designed and built with Rear set suspension units.
and Long drawbar.
Is, and always will be. much easier. Stable, to both tow. and reverse.
Than vans with either SHort tow bar. and or centre mounted susp units.
Basically. The LONGER (within reason of course) the "triangle".
From ball to rear centre of susp. the more control it has.
Along with the lesser weight on rear of van.rather than on drawbar ,
but not to extremes.
They all help.
And the geometry? of the systems is interesting.
IE What affects which.
HEY.
WHO watched the Cowboys game last arvo.
Couldn't happen to a better team, hey.
Losing .. that is. Arrogant SHarks.
Won it once in 50 yrs. thought they were kings of the castle.
a Half empty (6 players missing) team, which was already out. (Cowboys)
Knocked them off perch. Yesssssssssssssssss..
Something like Collingwood down in Vict hey. (Di says)
Let's just hope the Bronc's start playing footy again this w'end.
Unlike the last 2 games when nobody was home most of the match.
Di said Who's fronting to win the Ping Pong down South this yr.
Her son follows Richmond?.
Have a gud day all.
My pills working a treat at present.
-- Edited by macka17 on Monday 11th of September 2017 09:59:09 AM
Much edited above or snip as they say ..
Your comment about the Cowboys beat me to it. The great thing was that looser Gallen was the sharks captain. He must have a sad life with all those losses in big games ... Only won 1 SOO series & 1 GF! Ha Ha. (Still he's done far better than me though. Mine were only in schoolboys against Brisbane, Toowoomba & Gladstone along with a few undefeated local premierships in ages past. Our stars went on to rep for Qld & Australia, so my personal contribution was Bronco like I think.)
Can't believe how well the Cows are hanging in there without their stars. Such tenacity. Should get some sort of prize for their Queensland like effort.
The Bronks though are on another page. A most disappointing effort & perhaps Wayne has lost his mojo.
Macka,I think the heavy duty suspension you are thinking of could be the MC2 suspension.https://www.tracktrailer.com.au/company-history/mc2-suspension/
Don't think so.
Simplicity with their centre swung leaf and hubs on ends have been round for yonks.
They had some Military trailers being assembled with them
when we were in having mine rebuilt.
But that was 15\16yrs ago.
I've also seen LARGE Army rigs up in Shoalwater bay where we nearly live (Yeppoon)
loaded up for the Singapore\US\AUS Manouvres every yr.
They had the Simplicity under them.
Next time they here I'll take a few shots.ok.
Gday...
Click here Macka
Cheers - John
ADF is Military I believe.
Just sharing it around a bit methink's.
Taxpayers money.
Been a lot of places with mine. had to winch myself out of a couple too.
Good. Solid suspensions.
As are a few others too.
A mix of H\D shocker with ext coil would be getting close to it..
I'd think.
Hi Macka,I see the simplicity suspension you mentioned came out a lot earlier than the MC2
suspension I was thinking of.
Pictured below is an extract from an industry towing guide I use. The information in this guide is provided by Toyota. You will note that it says "load level hitch req." I suggest you follow Toyota's recommendation no matter what the self opinionated on this form say against the requirement.
If you don't use WDH with high ball loads you are in danger of overloading. The vehicles commonly used to tow vans should have their load distributed evenly over the vehicle. If you add the maximum axle loads of a vehicle you will see that the result is only a small amount greater then the GVM. The problem with adding a van ball weight into the loading is you are imposing a lot of weight outside of the normal range. The ball weight being so far behind adds around 140% of its weight to the rear axle and removes around 40% of its from the front wheels. (The theory of levers explains this situation. You will have to calculate the actual figure by using the wheelbase of the tug and the length of distance the hitch is behind the front axle, the longer that distance the higher the actual percentage imposed on the rear axle.)
You need the WDH to reduce the loading somewhat on the rear axle and distribute that weight to the front wheels. Nissan and some other manufacturers specify how much you need to reduce the GVM of the tug with different ball load values to prevent rear axle overload and other effects caused by high ball loads. Where those figures are not supplied by the manufacturers you are duty bound to work out the down-rating figures yourself.
A LOT of yrs prior to PT.
I was using, from memory, 30 yrs ago
And that Says it all Pete.
USE WDH...... on any larger vans.
I used the round bar units on single axle 1450 on wheels vans too.
It does help steering. it does help stability.
It does (to me) give peace of mind.
Plus. Plus, all through.
Thanks Fred!
Thanks heaps Guru!
Thanks Waytra!
Thanks Darjak, we'll keep that in mind!