Hi All, we are relatively new to being grey nomads, about 2 years. We bought a small Jayco but have discovered that living in it for many weeks, we would like a bit more comfort, so we are upgrading to about 18-19 ft. The Jayco sold pretty easy being as good as new. While checking as much info as possible I discovered the lemon list on FB. OMG so many horror stories. I know I love the lifestyle but if the list was my only experience I would never buy a caravan!
Anyway, I have narrowed it down to a few vans and was hoping someone may provide feedback on their own experience with these vans. I tow with a ford everest, 3 T, so looking at around 2200 tare, 2600 atm. I like Retreat, JB, Crusader or Concept/Newlands. Retreat and Crusader are both on the lemon list! However, you can't get much info about why they are on the list. It may only be one person who is having trouble compared to many that have been sold.
Hoping someone can provide a good experience,
cheers and thanks.
Steve
aussietraveller said
09:37 AM Aug 30, 2017
Buying a van thats a few years old that has had all the issues sorted will certainly make for a much less stressfull caravan ownership. My van is a 21' Jayco which has had some issues but all sorted now, its a 2005 version has most of the mod cons and is quite comfortable also a lot less expensive than buying a new one and we still have great 3-4 month trips away without constantly worrying that someone might put a small mark on our van. We do regular maintenance checks to keep our van safe and reliable.
Dickodownunder said
09:47 AM Aug 30, 2017
A good resourse for info is talking to actual owners of the brands you are considering.
I recently had two neighbours in the park we were staying in, both with the same make of vans.
Unfortunately, the stories that they told reflected pretty accurately the horror stories that one may read on that FB forum.
Stories and evidence of where the drawers had fallen out and wrecked the vinyl floor with no rectification at all from the manufacturer or dealer plus many other numerous faults
One of them phoned me after they left to tell the story how the mirror fell off the wall in the bathroom and bumped the tap on in the sink.
They had unfortunately left the 12v pump on and it had pumped all the water out of the two tanks, approx 160 litres.
So apart from the mirror that is not a real problem but they had fitted the sink plugs in the sinks as some do and the result was 160 litres of water on the caravan floor when they pulled up.
By the way the mirror fell off while travelling on the main highway not on rough or dirt roads.
There are many good manufacturers still around but it will pay you to do your research thoroughly before you buy. The price you pay may not necessarily reflect the quality you will get.
Good luck.
reglynn said
11:20 AM Aug 30, 2017
Hi Steve. while you are open to looking at vans, we have a ROMA ELEGANCE that we purchased 5 years ago, have been in the van full time for most of that time,
We can not recommend them highly enough, there after service is second to none, we have had no problems at all in our time with this van.
Please take the time to have a look at them, the size you are looking at is a nice van.
Good luck with your choice.L&R
macka17 said
11:45 AM Aug 30, 2017
Som MFG's have bad rep's some good.
Jayco are the ones Not many older vanners will touch.
Basically. ALL mfg's have Good INDIVIDUAL models and BAD Individual models.
Very few have any sort of honest QC.
More luck of the draw.
I bought 7 New vans over the 50 odd yrs doing it.
The last 15 yrs. Second hand. Roadstar and Coromal
One a good rep. One a "lazy" rep.
Neither missed a beat "so far".
Personally. I reckon Only cashed up mugs buy new vans.
I was one for yrs. But stayed with Roadstar. SO knew I was good.
Last one 3 yrs old. Kept for 13. Great van.
Buy ANY van you get. on it's INDIVIDUAL face value. NOT it's label
Check it out. and ask for jobs done and servicing.
Plus mileage Which doesn't really mean much.
Second hand you get extra's. Faults (Mainly) fixed.
My 3 yr old saved me. New $77+. Me $53k Sold 13 yrs later. $38k.
Your veh. MAX tow weight you should be looking at is no more than around 2.3 ton.
on axles.
It's a UTE.
I have D-max. Also rated 3ton. I restrict to 2 ton Max.
It's NOT what they CAN physically tow.
More what they can SAFELY tow. Regardless of figures on car plates.
I'm 15 yrs out of buyers markets so don't know modern vans.
Only the older well proven good ones.
Have fun. It is.
dirvine said
12:04 PM Aug 30, 2017
As I own a New Age Van I can only comment on it. The NA name is also on that list and when I made inquiries, it was a result of 2 things that happened over 2 years ago. Some manufacturers monitor FB and I can assure you that NA monitors the two that are on FB and respond very quickly to issues. Also in regards to NA, The were largely bought out by Wilkingshaw racing (Aus Super Cars), Since that happened in early 2016 (I think), their customer service and response has improved markedly (well according to others as I have not had to use them). I have only two issues with my NA. One is what i believe is just a basic product fault. The shower screen being held on the pivot pin by self tapping screws just cannot handle corrugations. Fixed by wedging the door. The other was a little more serious in that the shocker bolts on the cruisemaster suspension were not done up tight and the bolt broke. Cruisemaster replaced shocks for nothing, NA have taken on board to thoroughly check chassis on delivery and Cruisemaster have notified Preston Chassis of the problem at THEIR end. Other than that I have had no problems. Reading the NA FB pages, it seems there are not many issues at all.
Having said that I read the Lemon page and it does horrify me with some of the things displayed. Sure it might be only a small percentage, but in most cases people are spending twice what they would spend on a car. If a Car manufacture had issues of this magnitude I am sure we would have read it all over the press. It seems that us GN's are not worth worrying about by the press.
TheHeaths said
12:50 PM Aug 30, 2017
Sometimes I wonder where you get your "facts" from Macka.
villatranquilla said
03:06 PM Aug 30, 2017
macka17 wrote:
Som MFG's have bad rep's some good.
Jayco are the ones Not many older vanners will touch.
we've been vanning for years and the last 2 were Jaycos and the only reason we didn't have one this time is they didn't have the layout we wanted. We also have friends who are on their second and third Jaycos so saying "Jayco are the ones Not many older vanners will touch" I feel is not necessarily right.
Desert Dweller said
03:35 PM Aug 30, 2017
Most RV's have teething problems from new, hopefully after sorting them out you will get years of trouble free enjoyment.
There's no such thing as perfection no matter how much you spend or what brand you choose.
Only RV's with major faults belong on a ''lemons list''.
SouthernComfort said
04:08 PM Aug 30, 2017
Check the Billabong Caravans FB page, "Friends of Billabong". One of the best kept secrets among quality vans (yes, we have one. You will like!).
Papou said
04:25 PM Aug 30, 2017
Hi Steve :), mate i know of people who have purchased Vans over the 100k mark and have had a swag of issues and also others who have purchased for a third of that price with swags of issues and think its a matter of knowing the water you are treading , geting your purchase van checked out thoroughly , asking and keep asking prior to buying and really sleeping on the deal prior to purchase:). Being one who was seen comming when purchasing but on the lucky side of no issues that couldnt and didnt get sorted out at days end without breaking the bank hopefully we now have our van sorted out to where it should be fingers crossed lol.
Luckilly long way from breaking the bank for us and really learnt a lot at days end knowing hopefully we will walk into our next deal eyes wide open and at the same time still keep vanning .
If you buy new make sure you purchase a Van with a resale value whether you trade in or sell private.
Make sure it has the comfort layout you bot want especially if you plan to travel some distances.
Make sure your tow vehicle tows it with ease .
It has the payload you need with comfort as if you have an accident on the road and you are overloaded you are automatically in the fault , preorder a van and they can accomodate the payload you wish.
Enough Solar on the roof and batteries if you wish to freecamp.
Good quallity electrics eg chargers , as wellas fridge /freezer top accomodate your needs.
Eg i have a compressor fridge with 2 100w solar panels on the roof , two batteries and on an overcast day if travelling the fridge sucks the goodness out of my batterries so have done some wiring to tap into the tug whilst travelling on overcast days:)..
You caravan and you learn from Friendly Caravanners whether in parks or on sites such as this :)..
I personally think the caravanning Industry today is where the car Industry was forty years ago and hopefully the Gov is catching up with shady dealers/manufactureres???...
Ask and dont be afraid to take advice ey:).
Cheers and hope your next purchase works out for you..
macka17 said
04:30 PM Aug 30, 2017
They come out of the woodwork every time. Don't they.
There's a REASON. Jayco are reputed to have the best After Sales dep't in the country.
THEY NEED IT.
As I just sed abuv.
Check the individual van. Pre Purchase.
Reputable MFG'S. You'll get a good van out of it
Some of the others. It ain't possible.
A good quality. Second Hand.
is better.Than a poor quality build from new.
Here. Vanners Forums. MFG's Forums.
Check 'em all. first.
Another good thing. Any parks\Lay overs in your area.
Visit them. Knock on doors.
ASK.
Most will tell you good and bad. Most.
Bruce and Bev said
04:41 PM Aug 30, 2017
I agree with Aussietraveller.. Don't buy new - get one about 2 yrs old and hopefully all the poor manufacturers workmanship will have been fixed and then I would take it to a caravan repairer and pay the $200 or so to get it inspected. Many cities have repairers who specialize in pre-purchase inspections.
We bought a new Supreme, which is supposed to be one of the better brands and had 67 faults with it which should have been fixed by them, but they refused on most. Forced them by complaining to the ACCC, but it became such a drawn out hassle that in the end I told Supreme very frankly about their attitude towards their product and Supreme was not an apt name for their vans. Just paid my self to get them all fixed.
BUT I found many of their product suppliers to be very good - Dometic and particularly Swift were outstanding and went out of their way to pay for the faults without argument
TheHeaths said
04:55 PM Aug 30, 2017
Macka,
read the third last line of your first post. Then take that on board.
macka17 said
06:00 PM Aug 30, 2017
Not gonna argify.
Just that I still mix with vanners and we all talk.
Jayco do leave a LOT to be desired. Like it or not mate.
TheHeaths said
07:56 PM Aug 30, 2017
And so do many others Macka, even Roadstar.
-- Edited by TheHeaths on Wednesday 30th of August 2017 07:57:08 PM
Coop said
08:09 PM Aug 30, 2017
In reguards to Billabong Caravans check out June 19 2016 entry in Search
Coops
macka17 said
10:20 PM Aug 30, 2017
IF People look at my Posts. I said ALL have good and bad.
4th line down on first post. For anybody that needs it.
Check them (whichever) out first.
Just that some are\have more bad than others.
I was just lucky 2x Roadstars. 1 x Compass. All Semi Offroaders.
No problems in over 30 yrs .
To ME... They good vans. and have a good reputation overall.
To each their own methink's.
How about changing the subject,
Too much multiple rubbish stirrers clogging up an interesting post.
dirvine said
11:08 PM Aug 30, 2017
I have a chuckle every time quality and some caravan brands are mentioned. From my casual observance some brands seem to constantly appear on the lemon pages of FB, others not. In defence of Jayco (why should I bother) they are one if not the biggest seller of caravans and campers. So one might well expect they may have a higher number of complaints. But one needs to compare that on a ratio of units sold. Also Jayco is one of the cheaper brands. People seem to think that you can get a bargain and expect Rolls Royce quality. It aint going to happen. Not always, but usually the price of a van is dependent on the quality of the fit out brands and the accessories. Also some people expect far more from their van than what is the manufacturers intention. I have bought a heavy (2100kg) small (16') van. Built to handle MOST road conditions. Good off road suspension etc etc. I then spent a lot of time making sure that the underneath was well protected, and still came unstuck in a couple of areas. However the fundamentals of the van and the DNA of it give me the confidence to take it where it should be able to handle the conditions. On my last trip I saw many vans that clearly were not designed to travel off the bitumen doing just that. Most of them travelled at a slow speed which really annoyed most others who had vans like mine as it is sometimes difficult to pass with the dust etc. Yet these people will brag that they can do the Gibb River Road and other iconic tracks. This then gives other the confidence to assume so can they. They drive like they have an off road van and then wonder why it falls apart. In this regard, for both tug and van I prefer to buy something that is over engineered for what I intend to do, ever. Hence I own a discovery that can tow 3500kg, does not need ride levelers etc, and a smaller van that the car can handle with ease but built tough. But each to their own I guess, and the cheaper brands will always have a ready market because people are always thinking they are buying a bargain. And no I am not saying that high price = quality.
Like others here, I laugh at some emotive and ambiguous thoughts on this subject, as it all finishes up in the "eye of the beholder" basket.
I mean my van was as bad as they come in 2004. It had lots of issues and the manufacture was the pits. But I went through it slowly and fixed it myself. (That, or stay in misery). Almost 14 years old and still going well.
Australia seems to be the place that when buying a new van they shove you out the door. In the caravanning world no one seems to give a hoot about you coming back to maybe buy another van.
Maybe it is because we keep a van for lots longer than a motor car.
Me, I couldn't find a second hand van that pleased us. It doesn't sound like much but the $28000-00 we paid for our "Show Special" was not overly cheap in 2004.
Every thing doubles in around 10 years though, and now many would be happy to get my van for that figure.
I reckon like the wise have said , take it easy and have a look around at all of them.....
And please do not go in with eyes wide shut on Jayco. My info from many friends is that small things may go wrong, but the back up is very good. Just saying.....
Ron-D said
09:18 AM Aug 31, 2017
Mine had a a few problems as well ,the dealership was a long way off and the problems were not solved,they employed cheap labour ,a young bloke worked on my van who was only there a week and had no trade experience,I simply fixed it myself,and paid a good auto elec to do the rest,covering huge distances in bumper to bumper traffic,waiting for weeks being fobbed off with B/S drove me nuts,as for buying second hand it's a two edged sword maybe it's been sorted or maybe there getting rid of there Lemmon..
colinoldncranky said
08:41 PM Sep 5, 2017
villatranquilla wrote:
macka17 wrote:
Som MFG's have bad rep's some good.
Jayco are the ones Not many older vanners will touch.
we've been vanning for years and the last 2 were Jaycos and the only reason we didn't have one this time is they didn't have the layout we wanted. We also have friends who are on their second and third Jaycos so saying "Jayco are the ones Not many older vanners will touch" I feel is not necessarily right.
I think I concur villatranquilla. I guess it depends on who Macka talks to or whether they have their own agenda.
Early on when I was in the market for my first (and current) van I heard the derogatory "Jayco Breako" and for a while accepted it.
Now I have no experience of Jaycos except comments from a few friends and acquaintances. And from those I have heard no complaints about quality, delivery, and most importantly resolution of gripes etc. On the other hand I have heard from people I know and third hand of plenty of unresolved problems with many brand name caravans, to the extent that I would be unlikely to ever buy a new van.
When I was still in the market my wie and I started counting the Jaycos we passed on the way from Perth to Kulin. It was something like twenty Jaycos before we saw anything else. And while we haven't seen such a sequence since, they are still the most common we see ANYWHERE. So even without any referrals from others, I fail to see how a caravan that is nothing short of ubiquitous continues to exist and churn out sales if it not dependable.
Sorry Maccka, your assessment does not pass the pub-test. I expect that if I ever was in the market for a new flash $100,000 van, I'd most likely first head over to a dealer and have a look at a $70,000 Jayco. And if that did not satisfy then I'd be looking at a van a couple of years old in which the all-too-common issues have been sorted out by the previous owner.
This is an industry due for a serioyus wake up call. It defies me how the various statutory consumer bodies keep on giving the industry a free pass to ignore legislation that few others get to ignore.
--
-- Edited by colinoldncranky on Tuesday 5th of September 2017 08:46:07 PM
Hi All, we are relatively new to being grey nomads, about 2 years. We bought a small Jayco but have discovered that living in it for many weeks, we would like a bit more comfort, so we are upgrading to about 18-19 ft. The Jayco sold pretty easy being as good as new. While checking as much info as possible I discovered the lemon list on FB. OMG so many horror stories. I know I love the lifestyle but if the list was my only experience I would never buy a caravan!
Anyway, I have narrowed it down to a few vans and was hoping someone may provide feedback on their own experience with these vans. I tow with a ford everest, 3 T, so looking at around 2200 tare, 2600 atm. I like Retreat, JB, Crusader or Concept/Newlands. Retreat and Crusader are both on the lemon list! However, you can't get much info about why they are on the list. It may only be one person who is having trouble compared to many that have been sold.
Hoping someone can provide a good experience,
cheers and thanks.
Steve
I recently had two neighbours in the park we were staying in, both with the same make of vans.
Unfortunately, the stories that they told reflected pretty accurately the horror stories that one may read on that FB forum.
Stories and evidence of where the drawers had fallen out and wrecked the vinyl floor with no rectification at all from the manufacturer or dealer plus many other numerous faults
One of them phoned me after they left to tell the story how the mirror fell off the wall in the bathroom and bumped the tap on in the sink.
They had unfortunately left the 12v pump on and it had pumped all the water out of the two tanks, approx 160 litres.
So apart from the mirror that is not a real problem but they had fitted the sink plugs in the sinks as some do and the result was 160 litres of water on the caravan floor when they pulled up.
By the way the mirror fell off while travelling on the main highway not on rough or dirt roads.
There are many good manufacturers still around but it will pay you to do your research thoroughly before you buy. The price you pay may not necessarily reflect the quality you will get.
Good luck.
We can not recommend them highly enough, there after service is second to none, we have had no problems at all in our time with this van.
Please take the time to have a look at them, the size you are looking at is a nice van.
Good luck with your choice.L&R
Jayco are the ones Not many older vanners will touch.
Basically. ALL mfg's have Good INDIVIDUAL models and BAD Individual models.
Very few have any sort of honest QC.
More luck of the draw.
I bought 7 New vans over the 50 odd yrs doing it.
The last 15 yrs. Second hand. Roadstar and Coromal
One a good rep. One a "lazy" rep.
Neither missed a beat "so far".
Personally. I reckon Only cashed up mugs buy new vans.
I was one for yrs. But stayed with Roadstar. SO knew I was good.
Last one 3 yrs old. Kept for 13. Great van.
Buy ANY van you get. on it's INDIVIDUAL face value. NOT it's label
Check it out. and ask for jobs done and servicing.
Plus mileage Which doesn't really mean much.
Second hand you get extra's. Faults (Mainly) fixed.
My 3 yr old saved me. New $77+. Me $53k Sold 13 yrs later. $38k.
Your veh. MAX tow weight you should be looking at is no more than around 2.3 ton.
on axles.
It's a UTE.
I have D-max. Also rated 3ton. I restrict to 2 ton Max.
It's NOT what they CAN physically tow.
More what they can SAFELY tow. Regardless of figures on car plates.
I'm 15 yrs out of buyers markets so don't know modern vans.
Only the older well proven good ones.
Have fun. It is.
Having said that I read the Lemon page and it does horrify me with some of the things displayed. Sure it might be only a small percentage, but in most cases people are spending twice what they would spend on a car. If a Car manufacture had issues of this magnitude I am sure we would have read it all over the press. It seems that us GN's are not worth worrying about by the press.
There's no such thing as perfection no matter how much you spend or what brand you choose.
Only RV's with major faults belong on a ''lemons list''.
Check the Billabong Caravans FB page, "Friends of Billabong". One of the best kept secrets among quality vans (yes, we have one. You will like!).
Luckilly long way from breaking the bank for us and really learnt a lot at days end knowing hopefully we will walk into our next deal eyes wide open and at the same time still keep vanning .
If you buy new make sure you purchase a Van with a resale value whether you trade in or sell private.
Make sure it has the comfort layout you bot want especially if you plan to travel some distances.
Make sure your tow vehicle tows it with ease .
It has the payload you need with comfort as if you have an accident on the road and you are overloaded you are automatically in the fault , preorder a van and they can accomodate the payload you wish.
Enough Solar on the roof and batteries if you wish to freecamp.
Good quallity electrics eg chargers , as wellas fridge /freezer top accomodate your needs.
Eg i have a compressor fridge with 2 100w solar panels on the roof , two batteries and on an overcast day if travelling the fridge sucks the goodness out of my batterries so have done some wiring to tap into the tug whilst travelling on overcast days:)..
You caravan and you learn from Friendly Caravanners whether in parks or on sites such as this :)..
I personally think the caravanning Industry today is where the car Industry was forty years ago and hopefully the Gov is catching up with shady dealers/manufactureres???...
Ask and dont be afraid to take advice ey:).
Cheers and hope your next purchase works out for you..
There's a REASON. Jayco are reputed to have the best After Sales dep't in the country.
THEY NEED IT.
As I just sed abuv.
Check the individual van. Pre Purchase.
Reputable MFG'S. You'll get a good van out of it
Some of the others. It ain't possible.
A good quality. Second Hand.
is better.Than a poor quality build from new.
Here. Vanners Forums. MFG's Forums.
Check 'em all. first.
Another good thing. Any parks\Lay overs in your area.
Visit them. Knock on doors.
ASK.
Most will tell you good and bad. Most.
We bought a new Supreme, which is supposed to be one of the better brands and had 67 faults with it which should have been fixed by them, but they refused on most. Forced them by complaining to the ACCC, but it became such a drawn out hassle that in the end I told Supreme very frankly about their attitude towards their product and Supreme was not an apt name for their vans. Just paid my self to get them all fixed.
BUT I found many of their product suppliers to be very good - Dometic and particularly Swift were outstanding and went out of their way to pay for the faults without argument
read the third last line of your first post. Then take that on board.
Just that I still mix with vanners and we all talk.
Jayco do leave a LOT to be desired. Like it or not mate.
And so do many others Macka, even Roadstar.
-- Edited by TheHeaths on Wednesday 30th of August 2017 07:57:08 PM
In reguards to Billabong Caravans check out June 19 2016 entry in Search
Coops
4th line down on first post. For anybody that needs it.
Check them (whichever) out first.
Just that some are\have more bad than others.
I was just lucky 2x Roadstars. 1 x Compass. All Semi Offroaders.
No problems in over 30 yrs .
To ME... They good vans. and have a good reputation overall.
To each their own methink's.
How about changing the subject,
Too much multiple rubbish stirrers clogging up an interesting post.
Hi Steve11,
Like others here, I laugh at some emotive and ambiguous thoughts on this subject, as it all finishes up in the "eye of the beholder" basket.
I mean my van was as bad as they come in 2004. It had lots of issues and the manufacture was the pits. But I went through it slowly and fixed it myself. (That, or stay in misery). Almost 14 years old and still going well.
Australia seems to be the place that when buying a new van they shove you out the door. In the caravanning world no one seems to give a hoot about you coming back to maybe buy another van.
Maybe it is because we keep a van for lots longer than a motor car.
Me, I couldn't find a second hand van that pleased us. It doesn't sound like much but the $28000-00 we paid for our "Show Special" was not overly cheap in 2004.
Every thing doubles in around 10 years though, and now many would be happy to get my van for that figure.
I reckon like the wise have said , take it easy and have a look around at all of them.....
And please do not go in with eyes wide shut on Jayco. My info from many friends is that small things may go wrong, but the back up is very good. Just saying.....
Mine had a a few problems as well ,the dealership was a long way off and the problems were not solved,they employed cheap labour ,a young bloke worked on my van who was only there a week and had no trade experience,I simply fixed it myself,and paid a good auto elec to do the rest,covering huge distances in bumper to bumper traffic,waiting for weeks being fobbed off with B/S drove me nuts,as for buying second hand it's a two edged sword maybe it's been sorted or maybe there getting rid of there Lemmon..
I think I concur villatranquilla. I guess it depends on who Macka talks to or whether they have their own agenda.
Early on when I was in the market for my first (and current) van I heard the derogatory "Jayco Breako" and for a while accepted it.
Now I have no experience of Jaycos except comments from a few friends and acquaintances. And from those I have heard no complaints about quality, delivery, and most importantly resolution of gripes etc. On the other hand I have heard from people I know and third hand of plenty of unresolved problems with many brand name caravans, to the extent that I would be unlikely to ever buy a new van.
When I was still in the market my wie and I started counting the Jaycos we passed on the way from Perth to Kulin. It was something like twenty Jaycos before we saw anything else. And while we haven't seen such a sequence since, they are still the most common we see ANYWHERE. So even without any referrals from others, I fail to see how a caravan that is nothing short of ubiquitous continues to exist and churn out sales if it not dependable.
Sorry Maccka, your assessment does not pass the pub-test. I expect that if I ever was in the market for a new flash $100,000 van, I'd most likely first head over to a dealer and have a look at a $70,000 Jayco. And if that did not satisfy then I'd be looking at a van a couple of years old in which the all-too-common issues have been sorted out by the previous owner.
This is an industry due for a serioyus wake up call. It defies me how the various statutory consumer bodies keep on giving the industry a free pass to ignore legislation that few others get to ignore.
--
-- Edited by colinoldncranky on Tuesday 5th of September 2017 08:46:07 PM