I have an 82 Coaster SWB (pictured in my avatar). I am considering changing the 3B engine to an ECOTEC V6.
Has anyone here done this before?
Does anyone know of a company in Victoria that can do this?
Thanks,
Steve.
Aus-Kiwi said
06:36 PM Aug 25, 2017
In NSW you need to get it engineered . Find an engineer and go by what he says . https://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/~/media/files/documents/safety-and-road-rules/vsinumber8guidetomodificationsformotorvehicles.pdf?la=en
Eaglemax said
06:36 AM Aug 26, 2017
Mmm, could be a big mistake. Have you considered the 13bt engine?
As it is the same manufacturer you might nit need and engineers certificate. $$ savings.
I pinched this quote
"The 14b is a direct injected motor and as such, is alot more economical, it also comes turbocharged as a 14bt in some trucks...the 13bt is an aussie motor in the bj73 and bj74 mid wheel base landcruiser, new coasters have 15bt motors"
Even my light convertible (1100kg) towing a 750kg van with v6 3800 isnt very economical whereas my Hyundai i30 ccdi is much better at 1600cc.
Cant beat the turbo diesels. I think you'll drink the petrol so much it'll be a poor move and hard to sell.
macka17 said
08:23 AM Aug 26, 2017
ANY Diesel to Petrol swap is a bad idea for one reason alone.
TORQUE..
You's NEED a much larger. Harder revving\working petrol donk.
To give equal pulling power. economy.
To any diesel. IE More consumption for same job.
There are lots of Second hand Toyota engine\transm importers here.
I'd be looking at a later model. Maybe Turbo's, or next size up engine,
in same veh config.
Usually a near straight "drop in" job.
Maybe rebuild and Turbo?? of existing donk.
It old?. It tired. Maybe a stint in the gym for it.
(Rebuild workshop hey.)
Aus-Kiwi said
08:57 AM Aug 26, 2017
One thing about rebuilding your engine is you KNOW it's all new., Adding a turbo to diesels at low boost ( 8lb) doesn't make them unreliable ! Infact less rpm and actually lower stressed . A few steps can be done when rebuilding engine to assist also . Oil spray on piston for cooling, better piston choice ? Right lands etc .
Jaahn said
07:43 AM Aug 27, 2017
Hi Steve
If you pay a company to do that conversion then I would think it would not be worth the cost. There is a lot of work and recertification to do. Will the bus be worth the final cost?
There have been quite a few done over the years similar, I am sure, but most probably done at least in part by the owners. So the true cost was hard to assess. Think hard about it before you commit to an open ended start.
Years ago I had a 3ton Nissan truck that had a Holden red six fitted. It was awfull to drive. Still had no power and the conversion was badly done in the details. To make it drive better I had to redo various things. It was done by some company that did conversions. The diff ratio was also too low so it 'cruised' on the highway at peak revs. I bought it cheap to do a job shifting some building stuff for a while and was glad to move it on when that finished. No joy to drive for a pleasant time
Jaahn
macka17 said
09:11 AM Aug 27, 2017
Hey.
Everybody been polite so far.
It IS an old rig. Monetary value is More nostalgia than cash.
Not too much rust??.
Seriously. Think about either a rebuild of your donk, Or a second Hand "part worn" model from Jap, Importers.
You'd probably want to see it running with a dry\wet compression tests and Oil pressures first. I would. Either way It's gotta be lifted\dropped out to work on.
Box, Diff\Drive shafts good? new ext bearings\seals. H\Duty clutch pack. Flush your fuel tank\s. Maybe a rebuild Turbo (they do, do them for most)
Providing your existing engine just "tired". That'd be the cheapest way to go. Shells. Rings.Bearings.Valves\springs. Head shave and new seats. and OIL pump. (important.)
Don't forget the fuel System either.
Fuel Pump. Injectors, Glow plugs? and "Injector lines Pump to Injectors.
Just remember Turbo will cost extra, New Front exhaust, for fitting to. Probably wider dia right through for extra gas flow.
At least a rebuild job. You can get price on before you start. Plus any extra's. Inside\outside engine.
Good for another 200k then.
Best of luck mate.
Just DON'T UNDERestimate what you up for that's all.
-- Edited by macka17 on Sunday 27th of August 2017 09:14:54 AM
dirvine said
12:30 PM Aug 28, 2017
A lot of diesel engines do not lend themselves to rebuilds. Nissan motors in particular. Not sure about Toyota, but I would be asking questions on lots of forums to get opinions about rebuilds.
macka17 said
01:36 PM Aug 28, 2017
99.9% of any moving parts object.
That isn't completely sealed to the outside.
CAN be replaced. Rebuilt.
I've rebuilt GQ Patrol 4.2. 2.8. Several heads on the Navara's and Pulsars.
coupla Gearboxes. Multiple Diff cluster swap outs, and axles.
Nissans ain't too bad.
Fords clockwork. running on petrol.
Some you rebore some you resleeve. Ceramic Pistons\liners.
If it moves it was bolted in\on. It can be unbolted out again.
Price a full kit. O\S rings and shells to suit after it stripped. Bored, and ground if necessary.
Then find a decent fitter that's semi etired.
There's lots of old farts like myself and zillions of others.
with a LOT of experiences and no way of passing it on. Cash money.
They'll line up.
It's only a little 4 potter? or old early model Land cruiser\Troopie, 6 pot.
Glorified Tractor engines. Dead simple.
Jaahn said
03:50 PM Aug 28, 2017
dirvine wrote:
A lot of diesel engines do not lend themselves to rebuilds. Nissan motors in particular. Not sure about Toyota, but I would be asking questions on lots of forums to get opinions about rebuilds.
Hi
Now that statement is a puzzle to me ? Most diesel engines can be rebuilt to as new specs or better even. BUT BUT BUT. It does depend on why you are rebuilding it. If it is just tired and needs to be bought back to spec or better for a turbo then I am sure there are a thousand places who can and will do that
If the reason to rebuild it is because it has had a major failure and is internally damaged then the story may be different. Nissans spring to mind or to be precise one engine in particular. Then it may be not worth the money and effort to get it operational. The total of the bits may be "a lot of money".
But the old 3B Toyota motors were workers and keep slogging along. But they are lowish power in a biggish vehicle so suffer from that. But there are a lot of later model Toyota engines of similar mountings which put out more power and can have turbos etc which are easily found and could be fitted with little work. Would be my suggestion for the older Coasters. The fuel economy would not suffer either !
Cheers Jaahn
Here is a list of 4 cyl Toyota diesel engines from Wickipedia; 1974 << B Second gen.OHV/SOHC
1972to1988 3.0 L (2,977 cc) B
1977to1982 3.2 L (3,168 cc) 2B
1980to1990 3.4 L (3,432 cc) 3B
1984-???? 3.0 L (2,977 cc) 11B
1984to1990 3.4 L (3,432 cc) 13B
1988-???? 3.7 L (3,661 cc) 14B
1996to2002 4.1 L (4,104 cc) 15B
-- Edited by Jaahn on Monday 28th of August 2017 03:52:10 PM
dirvine said
05:14 PM Aug 28, 2017
My comment is not based on personal experience (I have rebuilt many petrol race and road motors), but rather what I have read on other forums on people who have rebuilt diesel motors (ie 4x4 Earth). It seems that despite it looking like as Maccka says un bolt and re bolt, many find that the rebuilt motor just fails. And I am talking about full and proper rebuilds not just a ring and bearing job. Some spent vast amounts of money and it all ended in heart break. The comments I have read seem to suggest that it is better to buy a full crate motor and just bolt the perifieral items on. Again not from my experience just what I have read.
-- Edited by dirvine on Monday 28th of August 2017 05:14:34 PM
macka17 said
12:44 PM Aug 30, 2017
Hi Dirvine.
It ALL depends on WHO does it.
If it your own and just tired\lazy. No known problems, Noises.
Rings. Shells. Head. pumps, and fuel syst. In Situ mainly.
With most. (Depending on room).
Lift out for Grind. Chains. Belts. Oil pump, front end. etc
You a tradie or somebody with lots of diesel or otherwise, experience.
They just like a clockwork watch,
It's just HOW you take out and More so. put back.
Assembly\Dis-Assembly are simple.A to Z and Z to A. With adjustments.
Providing you one of the above.
Finding\fixing "hic-cups" are\can be, a lot harder.
I got my City and Guilds in late '50's early '60's as a Diesel Tech with Hydraulics.
Incl a 6 months course in Rolls Royce workshops.
Thank's to the British Army.
Craftsman. V.M.-(Vehicle Mechanic). REME.
Came out in '63. STILL know my bloody 8 digit No Backwards.
237----5.
So I do know a "leetle" bit about it.
Mainly Earthmoving and a coupla ships engines the last 50 yrs or so.
Stevie D said
01:41 PM Sep 3, 2017
Thank-you very much. I am in VIC so the link was very helpful.
Stevie D said
01:46 PM Sep 3, 2017
Thanks for the advice, you make some very valid points.
-- Edited by Stevie D on Sunday 3rd of September 2017 02:34:55 PM
Stevie D said
02:10 PM Sep 3, 2017
macka17 wrote:
99.9% of any moving parts object. That isn't completely sealed to the outside.
Not sure what you mean by the above? I read it a few times but can't make sense of it, my apologies.
CAN be replaced. Rebuilt. I've rebuilt GQ Patrol 4.2. 2.8. Several heads on the Navara's and Pulsars. coupla Gearboxes. Multiple Diff cluster swap outs, and axles. Nissans ain't too bad
Fords clockwork. running on petrol.
Mine is a Toyota and evaluating a Holden engine so not sure what you mean by other makes. Are you recommending a Ford?
Some you rebore some you resleeve. Ceramic Pistons\liners.
If it moves it was bolted in\on. It can be unbolted out again. Price a full kit. O\S rings and shells to suit after it stripped. Bored, and ground if necessary. Then find a decent fitter that's semi etired.
I have been quoted on rebuilds and rebuild kits and prices are ridiculous.
There's lots of old farts like myself and zillions of others.
with a LOT of experiences and no way of passing it on. Cash money.
They'll line up.
Have not found any yet but still looking.
It's only a little 4 potter? or old early model Land cruiser\Troopie, 6 pot. Glorified Tractor engines. Dead simple.
-- Edited by Stevie D on Sunday 3rd of September 2017 02:11:38 PM
Stevie D said
02:34 PM Sep 3, 2017
Eaglemax wrote:
Mmm, could be a big mistake. Have you considered the 13bt engine?
I have driven a bus with the 13BT and was not much better. It still struggled on steep hills and the turbo noise right beside me all day was so annoying. I have been quoted $10K+ for a 13BT replacement.
As it is the same manufacturer you might nit need and engineers certificate. $$ savings.
Yes very good point and I totally agree. However the rebuild and modifications cost far outweigh the costs of a different engine (Holden/Ford) as they are generally half the price to rebuild. maintain and get parts for. I also have emissions to think about.
I pinched this quote "The 14b is a direct injected motor and as such, is alot more economical, it also comes turbocharged as a 14bt in some trucks...the 13bt is an aussie motor in the bj73 and bj74 mid wheel base landcruiser, new coasters have 15bt motors" Even my light convertible (1100kg) towing a 750kg van with v6 3800 isnt very economical whereas my Hyundai i30 ccdi is much better at 1600cc. Cant beat the turbo diesels. I think you'll drink the petrol so much it'll be a poor move and hard to sell.
Thanks for the other engine options I'll check them out.
Stevie D said
02:40 PM Sep 3, 2017
Yeah I agree and also thinking of a V8 and I'm 30 years from retirement and will not travelling out of victoria
Stevie D said
02:46 PM Sep 3, 2017
Thanks for all your thoughts and advice, greatly appreciated.
My Coaster developed a really bad oil leak and it ran dry before I noticed, as it never dropped oil before. The temperature started going up so I stopped and checked the water, that's when I saw the oil under the bus. I put more in and limped to the closet mechanic.
I stopped in at Adtrans in West Gosford NSW and they could not get it running again, she'll turn over so not seized but as it knocks something like a piston or a rod is probably broken Adtrans advised.
A different diesel mechanic got her to run but it would just cut out under any load.
Hoping to resurrect her for under 10K and not keen on using the same engine that's in it. Maybe a crack test before a rebuild but the pitiful and embarrassing lack of power in the 3B is my greatest concern.
Melbourne Coaster dealers, wreckers and general mechanics are generally non-helpful ripoff artists and NSW ones are even worse. A severe beating has already been dished out to one of them.
I am in my early 40's so only have time for a weekender, not planning on any round australia trips for at least another 25 years, if I get that far of course!
Thanks again for all the posts.
-- Edited by Stevie D on Sunday 3rd of September 2017 03:21:37 PM
Aus-Kiwi said
09:05 PM Sep 3, 2017
Did new liners and pistons in my old 7.5 Fuso . The crank was fine . It's still running just fine . In fact it now runs a turbo with 8 lb boost . Pulls up hills in 3rd 60 kph where before I was in second and under 40 kph . The newer engines don't have much meat around valve stem to fix guides . Way around that is oversize stems or new head ..
Hi Nomads,
I have an 82 Coaster SWB (pictured in my avatar). I am considering changing the 3B engine to an ECOTEC V6.
Has anyone here done this before?
Does anyone know of a company in Victoria that can do this?
Thanks,
Steve.
TORQUE..
You's NEED a much larger. Harder revving\working petrol donk.
To give equal pulling power. economy.
To any diesel. IE More consumption for same job.
There are lots of Second hand Toyota engine\transm importers here.
I'd be looking at a later model. Maybe Turbo's, or next size up engine,
in same veh config.
Usually a near straight "drop in" job.
Maybe rebuild and Turbo?? of existing donk.
It old?. It tired. Maybe a stint in the gym for it.
(Rebuild workshop hey.)
Hi Steve
If you pay a company to do that conversion then I would think it would not be worth the cost. There is a lot of work and recertification to do. Will the bus be worth the final cost?
There have been quite a few done over the years similar, I am sure, but most probably done at least in part by the owners. So the true cost was hard to assess. Think hard about it before you commit to an open ended start.
Years ago I had a 3ton Nissan truck that had a Holden red six fitted. It was awfull to drive. Still had no power and the conversion was badly done in the details. To make it drive better I had to redo various things. It was done by some company that did conversions. The diff ratio was also too low so it 'cruised' on the highway at peak revs. I bought it cheap to do a job shifting some building stuff for a while and was glad to move it on when that finished. No joy to drive for a pleasant time
Jaahn
Hey.
Everybody been polite so far.
It IS an old rig. Monetary value is More nostalgia than cash.
Not too much rust??.
Seriously. Think about either a rebuild of your donk, Or a second Hand
"part worn" model from Jap, Importers.
You'd probably want to see it running with a dry\wet compression tests
and Oil pressures first.
I would.
Either way It's gotta be lifted\dropped out to work on.
Box, Diff\Drive shafts good? new ext bearings\seals. H\Duty clutch pack.
Flush your fuel tank\s.
Maybe a rebuild Turbo (they do, do them for most)
Providing your existing engine just "tired".
That'd be the cheapest way to go. Shells. Rings.Bearings.Valves\springs.
Head shave and new seats. and OIL pump. (important.)
Don't forget the fuel System either.
Fuel Pump. Injectors, Glow plugs? and "Injector lines Pump to Injectors.
Just remember Turbo will cost extra, New Front exhaust, for fitting to.
Probably wider dia right through for extra gas flow.
At least a rebuild job. You can get price on before you start.
Plus any extra's. Inside\outside engine.
Good for another 200k then.
Best of luck mate.
Just DON'T UNDERestimate what you up for that's all.
-- Edited by macka17 on Sunday 27th of August 2017 09:14:54 AM
99.9% of any moving parts object.
That isn't completely sealed to the outside.
CAN be replaced. Rebuilt.
I've rebuilt GQ Patrol 4.2. 2.8. Several heads on the Navara's and Pulsars.
coupla Gearboxes. Multiple Diff cluster swap outs, and axles.
Nissans ain't too bad.
Fords clockwork. running on petrol.
Some you rebore some you resleeve. Ceramic Pistons\liners.
If it moves it was bolted in\on. It can be unbolted out again.
Price a full kit. O\S rings and shells to suit after it stripped. Bored, and ground if necessary.
Then find a decent fitter that's semi
etired.
There's lots of old farts like myself and zillions of others.
with a LOT of experiences and no way of passing it on. Cash money.
They'll line up.
It's only a little 4 potter? or old early model Land cruiser\Troopie, 6 pot.
Glorified Tractor engines. Dead simple.
Hi
Now that statement is a puzzle to me ? Most diesel engines can be rebuilt to as new specs or better even. BUT BUT BUT. It does depend on why you are rebuilding it. If it is just tired and needs to be bought back to spec or better for a turbo then I am sure there are a thousand places who can and will do that
If the reason to rebuild it is because it has had a major failure and is internally damaged then the story may be different. Nissans spring to mind or to be precise one engine in particular. Then it may be not worth the money and effort to get it operational. The total of the bits may be "a lot of money".
But the old 3B Toyota motors were workers and keep slogging along. But they are lowish power in a biggish vehicle so suffer from that. But there are a lot of later model Toyota engines of similar mountings which put out more power and can have turbos etc which are easily found and could be fitted with little work. Would be my suggestion for the older Coasters. The fuel economy would not suffer either !
Cheers Jaahn
Here is a list of 4 cyl Toyota diesel engines from Wickipedia; 1974 << B Second gen. OHV/SOHC
-- Edited by Jaahn on Monday 28th of August 2017 03:52:10 PM
My comment is not based on personal experience (I have rebuilt many petrol race and road motors), but rather what I have read on other forums on people who have rebuilt diesel motors (ie 4x4 Earth). It seems that despite it looking like as Maccka says un bolt and re bolt, many find that the rebuilt motor just fails. And I am talking about full and proper rebuilds not just a ring and bearing job. Some spent vast amounts of money and it all ended in heart break. The comments I have read seem to suggest that it is better to buy a full crate motor and just bolt the perifieral items on. Again not from my experience just what I have read.
-- Edited by dirvine on Monday 28th of August 2017 05:14:34 PM
It ALL depends on WHO does it.
If it your own and just tired\lazy. No known problems, Noises.
Rings. Shells. Head. pumps, and fuel syst. In Situ mainly.
With most. (Depending on room).
Lift out for Grind. Chains. Belts. Oil pump, front end. etc
You a tradie or somebody with lots of diesel or otherwise, experience.
They just like a clockwork watch,
It's just HOW you take out and More so. put back.
Assembly\Dis-Assembly are simple.A to Z and Z to A. With adjustments.
Providing you one of the above.
Finding\fixing "hic-cups" are\can be, a lot harder.
I got my City and Guilds in late '50's early '60's as a Diesel Tech with Hydraulics.
Incl a 6 months course in Rolls Royce workshops.
Thank's to the British Army.
Craftsman. V.M.-(Vehicle Mechanic). REME.
Came out in '63. STILL know my bloody 8 digit No Backwards.
237----5.
So I do know a "leetle" bit about it.
Mainly Earthmoving and a coupla ships engines the last 50 yrs or so.
Thank-you very much. I am in VIC so the link was very helpful.
Thanks for the advice, you make some very valid points.
-- Edited by Stevie D on Sunday 3rd of September 2017 02:34:55 PM
-- Edited by Stevie D on Sunday 3rd of September 2017 02:11:38 PM
Yeah I agree and also thinking of a V8 and I'm 30 years from retirement and will not travelling out of victoria
Thanks for all your thoughts and advice, greatly appreciated.
My Coaster developed a really bad oil leak and it ran dry before I noticed, as it never dropped oil before. The temperature started going up so I stopped and checked the water, that's when I saw the oil under the bus. I put more in and limped to the closet mechanic.
I stopped in at Adtrans in West Gosford NSW and they could not get it running again, she'll turn over so not seized but as it knocks something like a piston or a rod is probably broken Adtrans advised.
A different diesel mechanic got her to run but it would just cut out under any load.
Hoping to resurrect her for under 10K and not keen on using the same engine that's in it. Maybe a crack test before a rebuild but the pitiful and embarrassing lack of power in the 3B is my greatest concern.
Melbourne Coaster dealers, wreckers and general mechanics are generally non-helpful ripoff artists and NSW ones are even worse. A severe beating has already been dished out to one of them.
I am in my early 40's so only have time for a weekender, not planning on any round australia trips for at least another 25 years, if I get that far of course!
Thanks again for all the posts.
-- Edited by Stevie D on Sunday 3rd of September 2017 03:21:37 PM