I'm interested to know if anyone with a petrol tug has any experience using E10 fuel when towing.
I usually run on 91ULP with an occasional fill of 95PULP. I've noticed at my new local United servo (opened this week) that 95PULP has been replaced by E10 95RON which is the cheapest of all, slightly cheaper than 91ULP (I think until recently E10 was only mixed in 91RON).
Ethanol has been demonized by some and lauded by others - in the U.S. for example, E10 is the predominant fuel (diesel is not so common there), they use it under all conditions and can't get enough of it.
As ethanol characteristically has a lower energy/power output and a slightly higher consumption rate than straight petrol, I'm wondering if E10 has made a noticable difference to you when towing e.g. struggling more on inclines? more downshifting needed? etc.
Just trying to sort out the myths and facts based others experiences!
Doesn't compare when towing but probably is a relevant comparison/review.
Cheers - John
Cupie said
11:15 AM Aug 20, 2017
Can never be sure if my EFI petrol GQ Patrol is supposed to be OK on Ethanol blended stuff.
As a result I usually use standard ULP.
I have been forced to use E10 when in NSW with no ULP at the servo & invariably find that it has less power, even 'pinking' on big hills & noticeably poorer consumption figures.
edit .. From A Nissan site
"Nissan vehicles manufactured before 1 January 2004 are capable of operating on ethanol-blended ULP, although Nissan does NOT recommend using ethanol-blended fuel in these vehicles."
Whatever that means ....
-- Edited by Cupie on Sunday 20th of August 2017 11:21:23 AM
Doesn't compare when towing but probably is a relevant comparison/review.
Cheers - John
Thanks. Funnily enough, I just read that article yesterday along with a couple of others. As you say, useful for general comparison but haven't yet found any comparisons on it's performance under towing loads. I'm getting curious as the govt. seems hell bent on progressively phasing out ULP. That happened long ago in the U.S. so no surprise where we're headed.
SouthernComfort said
12:06 PM Aug 20, 2017
Cupie wrote:
Can never be sure if my EFI petrol GQ Patrol is supposed to be OK on Ethanol blended stuff.
As a result I usually use standard ULP.
I have been forced to use E10 when in NSW with no ULP at the servo & invariably find that it has less power, even 'pinking' on big hills & noticeably poorer consumption figures.
edit .. From A Nissan site
"Nissan vehicles manufactured before 1 January 2004 are capable of operating on ethanol-blended ULP, although Nissan does NOT recommend using ethanol-blended fuel in these vehicles."
Whatever that means ....
-- Edited by Cupie on Sunday 20th of August 2017 11:21:23 AM
Just a hint, pinking is usually caused by fuel with too low octane, or ignition timing needs resetting. Ethanol has nothing to do with octane per se, so shouldn't be the cause of pinking (IMO!). E10 with 95 octane will just bring more cars calibrated for PULP95 within the range of E10 - but you need to be guided by the vehicle manufacturer.
Aus-Kiwi said
12:26 PM Aug 20, 2017
It actually has a higher rating . It's just the energy from ethanol is less the petrol so it will a little run lean .. Depending on price ? I mix E10 with 98 . Fill tank at 1/4 of tank .
aussietraveller said
05:18 PM Aug 20, 2017
I was having my LPG checked last week and the mechanics were discussing the issued of using ethanol petrol mix, they showed me a couple of injectors out of a ford and also the fuel pump there was considerable damage which they claim was caused by ethanol.
I have for years run the Pajero on standard unleaded and LPG so I get the best of both worlds but the power is down on LPG but at half the price of petrol I can handle it also a lot less pollution with LPG.
SouthernComfort said
06:02 PM Aug 20, 2017
Aus-Kiwi wrote:
It actually has a higher rating . It's just the energy from ethanol is less the petrol so it will a little run lean .. Depending on price ? I mix E10 with 98 . Fill tank at 1/4 of tank .
"It actually has a higher rating"...
Well it depends which reference you read, there are many contradictions. Overall though, the higher the octane number, the more the fuel can resist pre-detonation (pinking). Ethanol produces less heat and therefore less energy resulting in a lower power output, but that's not about its octane. Neither does it change the octane rating of the petrol component. The lower energy/power output of E10 (around 3%) is responsible for the slightly higher fuel consumption. E10 doesn't have a long shelf life, around 30 days, so in any event it's best to use a source with a high turnover. If it's been sitting around, it won't perform.
If I was looking at a cure for pinking I'd first check I'm using the right octane fuel, and if E10, the fuel's age. Then I'd look for other causes e.g. timing, faulty knock sensor etc.
RustyD said
07:17 PM Aug 20, 2017
Did a bit of fact finding on ethanol fuel a few years ago when I saw some 100 Octane in Ouyen. From what I can determine:-
91 with 10% ethanol = 95 E10
95 with 10% ethanol = 98 E10
98 with 10% ethanol = 100 E10
100 E10 seems to have gone. Places I saw it at no longer stock it (United in all places)
Have run 95 E10 instead of 91 because it was cheaper. However, I think the economy was not as good as 91, hence not that cost effective. Vehicle did seem to run better (XR6 turbo).
Normally I run 95 or 98 in my Can-Am Spyder. Used the 95 E10 a few times. Not as economical as standard 95 but performance is same. Tried the 100 E10 and the economy was appalling. Probably why it no longer exists.
Ethanol fuel doesnt always fire up properly and the engine may cough & splutter for a while. Brazil has full ethanol but cars all have a washer bottle full of petrol to start the vehicle.
All new vehicles (2, 3 & 4 wheels) can run ethanol fuels but many older ones cannot due to material making up the fuel system.
Cruising Cruze said
08:09 PM Aug 20, 2017
G'day all
I always fill up with e10 in the Hyundai Gets ( just about from day one ) around the corner by Woollies
Funny thing is that when we drive in that one to say NSW and fill up on the way with normal unleaded Shell
I get nearly 30 km more out of a tank
Cheers John
Aus-Kiwi said
08:12 PM Aug 20, 2017
Yes on towing vehicle I wouldn't run it full time !! I use t as cleaning agent !! Depends on engine management? Some read E content ?? You WONT get fuel saving unless there's atleast 10% cheaper E10 . A top up with it won't hurt !! Cleans the tank . If you have never used it on older vehicle? I wouldn't ! It could bring the tarnish off the pipes and any water at bottom of fuel tank .So use it often or not at all !!
SouthernComfort said
08:49 AM Aug 21, 2017
RustyD wrote:
Did a bit of fact finding on ethanol fuel a few years ago when I saw some 100 Octane in Ouyen. From what I can determine:-
91 with 10% ethanol = 95 E10 95 with 10% ethanol = 98 E10 98 with 10% ethanol = 100 E10
100 E10 seems to have gone. Places I saw it at no longer stock it (United in all places)
Have run 95 E10 instead of 91 because it was cheaper. However, I think the economy was not as good as 91, hence not that cost effective. Vehicle did seem to run better (XR6 turbo).
Normally I run 95 or 98 in my Can-Am Spyder. Used the 95 E10 a few times. Not as economical as standard 95 but performance is same. Tried the 100 E10 and the economy was appalling. Probably why it no longer exists.
Ethanol fuel doesnt always fire up properly and the engine may cough & splutter for a while. Brazil has full ethanol but cars all have a washer bottle full of petrol to start the vehicle.
All new vehicles (2, 3 & 4 wheels) can run ethanol fuels but many older ones cannot due to material making up the fuel system.
This site is interesting.... http://e10thegoodfuel.com.au/facts-about-e10/index.html
E10 seemingly has an average octane rating of 94.4, therefore 95 E10 is just that, 95(ish) octane - premium.
keiron said
07:38 PM Aug 21, 2017
I have been using E10 all of the time in NSW (and anywhere else available), usually 93-95 Octane, in my 4.8 Litre Nissan Patrol.
Over the last 5 years I have religiously kept a "Fuel Log" for all of my travels.
115,000 klms during that time, 25-30,000 klms towing a 2 tonne van (up to 2,6 tonne). Travels in S'W Qld, Flinders Ranges, S/A from Kingstone S/E - Mt Gambier a,d via Gt/Ocean Rd to Sydney, plus some around NSW Outback.
My averages during that time are 4.5 klms per litre towing the Van, and as high as 6.8 - 7.0 klms per litre without the van. (Graphs available on request).
My Mechanic is most impressed with the condition of the vehicle, which has now travelled 215,000 klms plus.
Hope this assists. KB
SouthernComfort said
09:15 AM Aug 22, 2017
keiron wrote:
I have been using E10 all of the time in NSW (and anywhere else available), usually 93-95 Octane, in my 4.8 Litre Nissan Patrol.
Over the last 5 years I have religiously kept a "Fuel Log" for all of my travels.
115,000 klms during that time, 25-30,000 klms towing a 2 tonne van (up to 2,6 tonne). Travels in S'W Qld, Flinders Ranges, S/A from Kingstone S/E - Mt Gambier a,d via Gt/Ocean Rd to Sydney, plus some around NSW Outback.
My averages during that time are 4.5 klms per litre towing the Van, and as high as 6.8 - 7.0 klms per litre without the van. (Graphs available on request).
My Mechanic is most impressed with the condition of the vehicle, which has now travelled 215,000 klms plus.
Hope this assists. KB
Thanks, that's a good real life example. Also good fuel mileage for a 4.8L !
Hi all,
I'm interested to know if anyone with a petrol tug has any experience using E10 fuel when towing.
I usually run on 91ULP with an occasional fill of 95PULP. I've noticed at my new local United servo (opened this week) that 95PULP has been replaced by E10 95RON which is the cheapest of all, slightly cheaper than 91ULP (I think until recently E10 was only mixed in 91RON).
Ethanol has been demonized by some and lauded by others - in the U.S. for example, E10 is the predominant fuel (diesel is not so common there), they use it under all conditions and can't get enough of it.
As ethanol characteristically has a lower energy/power output and a slightly higher consumption rate than straight petrol, I'm wondering if E10 has made a noticable difference to you when towing e.g. struggling more on inclines? more downshifting needed? etc.
Just trying to sort out the myths and facts based others experiences!
Gday...
https://www.carsguide.com.au/car-reviews/unleaded-vs-e10-the-comparison-test-29451
Doesn't compare when towing but probably is a relevant comparison/review.
Cheers - John
Can never be sure if my EFI petrol GQ Patrol is supposed to be OK on Ethanol blended stuff.
As a result I usually use standard ULP.
I have been forced to use E10 when in NSW with no ULP at the servo & invariably find that it has less power, even 'pinking' on big hills & noticeably poorer consumption figures.
edit .. From A Nissan site
"Nissan vehicles manufactured before 1 January 2004 are capable of operating on ethanol-blended ULP, although Nissan does NOT recommend using ethanol-blended fuel in these vehicles."
Whatever that means ....
-- Edited by Cupie on Sunday 20th of August 2017 11:21:23 AM
Thanks. Funnily enough, I just read that article yesterday along with a couple of others. As you say, useful for general comparison but haven't yet found any comparisons on it's performance under towing loads. I'm getting curious as the govt. seems hell bent on progressively phasing out ULP. That happened long ago in the U.S. so no surprise where we're headed.
Just a hint, pinking is usually caused by fuel with too low octane, or ignition timing needs resetting. Ethanol has nothing to do with octane per se, so shouldn't be the cause of pinking (IMO!). E10 with 95 octane will just bring more cars calibrated for PULP95 within the range of E10 - but you need to be guided by the vehicle manufacturer.
I have for years run the Pajero on standard unleaded and LPG so I get the best of both worlds but the power is down on LPG but at half the price of petrol I can handle it also a lot less pollution with LPG.
"It actually has a higher rating"...
Well it depends which reference you read, there are many contradictions. Overall though, the higher the octane number, the more the fuel can resist pre-detonation (pinking). Ethanol produces less heat and therefore less energy resulting in a lower power output, but that's not about its octane. Neither does it change the octane rating of the petrol component. The lower energy/power output of E10 (around 3%) is responsible for the slightly higher fuel consumption. E10 doesn't have a long shelf life, around 30 days, so in any event it's best to use a source with a high turnover. If it's been sitting around, it won't perform.
If I was looking at a cure for pinking I'd first check I'm using the right octane fuel, and if E10, the fuel's age. Then I'd look for other causes e.g. timing, faulty knock sensor etc.
91 with 10% ethanol = 95 E10
95 with 10% ethanol = 98 E10
98 with 10% ethanol = 100 E10
100 E10 seems to have gone. Places I saw it at no longer stock it (United in all places)
Have run 95 E10 instead of 91 because it was cheaper. However, I think the economy was not as good as 91, hence not that cost effective. Vehicle did seem to run better (XR6 turbo).
Normally I run 95 or 98 in my Can-Am Spyder. Used the 95 E10 a few times. Not as economical as standard 95 but performance is same. Tried the 100 E10 and the economy was appalling. Probably why it no longer exists.
Ethanol fuel doesnt always fire up properly and the engine may cough & splutter for a while. Brazil has full ethanol but cars all have a washer bottle full of petrol to start the vehicle.
All new vehicles (2, 3 & 4 wheels) can run ethanol fuels but many older ones cannot due to material making up the fuel system.
I always fill up with e10 in the Hyundai Gets ( just about from day one ) around the corner by Woollies
Funny thing is that when we drive in that one to say NSW and fill up on the way with normal unleaded Shell
I get nearly 30 km more out of a tank
Cheers John
This site is interesting.... http://e10thegoodfuel.com.au/facts-about-e10/index.html
E10 seemingly has an average octane rating of 94.4, therefore 95 E10 is just that, 95(ish) octane - premium.
I have been using E10 all of the time in NSW (and anywhere else available), usually 93-95 Octane, in my 4.8 Litre Nissan Patrol.
Over the last 5 years I have religiously kept a "Fuel Log" for all of my travels.
115,000 klms during that time, 25-30,000 klms towing a 2 tonne van (up to 2,6 tonne). Travels in S'W Qld, Flinders Ranges, S/A from Kingstone S/E - Mt Gambier a,d via Gt/Ocean Rd to Sydney, plus some around NSW Outback.
My averages during that time are 4.5 klms per litre towing the Van, and as high as 6.8 - 7.0 klms per litre without the van. (Graphs available on request).
My Mechanic is most impressed with the condition of the vehicle, which has now travelled 215,000 klms plus.
Hope this assists. KB
Thanks, that's a good real life example. Also good fuel mileage for a 4.8L !