Ok, this post isnt meant to be anti 4WD. But years ago Holdens, Fords and more likely the Valiant roamed the land...sorry, bitumen towing 22ft vans. I even towed a heavy Franklin with a Datsun 260C coupe all 2600cc of it. What I'm suggesting here is the non off road vanner...still tows with a 4x4 now. We're near Dubbo returning from Bundy to home Strathbogie Vic. Total trip only one non 4x4 seen towing a van It was a 1998 Statesman and 16' poptop. Modern cars lack of chassis strength is one reason but under 18ft surely is a preferable tug comfort wise, maintenance and use for daily urban transport where its use is 95% of the time. Your thoughts?. Is it the diesel or gearing?
KFT said
08:26 PM Aug 9, 2017
G'day Eaglemax,
I have towed caravans for quite some time now since the 1970's. I first towed with a F100 2wd ute. Later though I towed with a holden commodore ute until they reduced the towing capacity to 1600kg from 2100 and that sort of forced me to seek something with a higher towing capacity which ended up being a 4wd Kia sorento. Later in our retirement years we tow with a 4wd Navara.
Why? because the Navara has a higher towing capacity than equivalent 2wd vehicles and also offers the opportunity of exploring some areas that would be inaccessible to a 2wd vehicle while the van is back at the camp site.
The other reason is I get a nice powerful diesel engine to tow my van and better stability from a heavier tow vehicle.
Mate that is my excuse anyway
Frank
goannaway said
10:16 PM Aug 9, 2017
Hi Eaglemax,
I tow a Stirling Outback poptop using a Ranger 4x4, I have used a Commodore to tow a camper trailer but find a 4x4 a lot more convenient as we also use it semi off road when free camping and also been into the Grampians etc in areas 2wd cannot venture. It all depends on the type of camping and driving you want to do, well in My case it works for me
Goanna
brickies said
07:46 AM Aug 10, 2017
I think it all about weight , Can't tow much with a car these days
SouthernComfort said
08:10 AM Aug 10, 2017
Not all the SUV's you're seeing are 4x4 of course, many including mine are 2wd with similar engine & drive train to a large sedan, but by perception they still get lumped into the 4x bracket! Even the 2wd varieties provide beefed up chassis/suspension (possibly), higher ride, arguably better visibility from the helm, slightly higher tow rating and more load space than the larger sedans. And since no one builds large station wagons any longer, we're nudged into SUV's (or dual cab utes) instead. I agree though that many genuine 4x4's in use are an overkill unless trekking properly off-road or hauling QE2 size 'vans, in which case the higher tow cap. is needed.
-- Edited by SouthernComfort on Thursday 10th of August 2017 08:17:34 AM
mezza56 said
08:43 AM Aug 10, 2017
one thing most have overlooked here is that most vanners ( GN that is ) are exploring the back end as well as the Bitumen and a 4wd will hold up better to the rigours of the back end , furthermore a lot of caravanners use their vehicles to venture into the off road secenarios like fraser island or rainbow beach ( adventurous soles they be ) , plus if your on a slippery mud surface in a free camp your normal car will have no traction , even without a van on at times . Anyway thats my take on it .
aussietraveller said
08:51 AM Aug 10, 2017
For me its a safety issue I tow a 21 foot van which we chose after having a 16 foot poptop because on our annual 3-4 month holiday we felt too cramped in the poptop and we really wanted our own shower and toilet facilities. We previously towed a 22 foot van behind a Statesman but you cant buy them anymore hense our decision to buy the Pajero which gives us a good safety margin considering the weight of the van.
We dont do a lot of off road driving but over the years we have found some beautiful places that a conventional car would not get us too.
RustyD said
09:59 AM Aug 10, 2017
Towed a Jayco Swann for about 12 years from late 80s. Towed with various Fords: Telstar (all 2.0L), Maverick (2DR), Raider, various EA, EB, ED & EF Falcons (sedans & wagons) and an EB XR8 Tickford pre-production model. Wife & 2 kids tagged along.
When I purchased by Jurgens 1901 2 years ago I towed it with a Falcon BA ute. Tons of power & torque. After 2 trips I purchased a Ranger 4WD dual cab.
The Maverick was great for towing (aka Nissan Patrol). The Falcon wagons were OK. I never felt comfortable towing with the others. Needed levelling bars but with levelling bars, the on-board hydraulic ram brakes brakes didn't work effectively.
I upgraded from Falcon Ute to the Ranger as I needed the dual cab for the back seat (dog & grandson). Front Cabin space is also much better. Also both wife & self were finding it harder and harder to get in & out of the lower-to-ground ute. Got the 4WD over the 2WD as I got a great deal that has turned out to be great. Got bogged on our footpath a few times and also in a sandy free camp spot. Need 4WD low to get out.
The Ranger feels a lot more stable towing. Feels like the car is in control of the van rather than the van in control of the car.
The Ranger is too big to drive comfortably around town. Hence my wife's small AWD does all the tripping about. Ranger is only used when wife is using her car & I need to go out, and pulling the van.
When I bought the Jurgens, I was looking at a light van and a medium AWD to tow it. Got the light van but decided that I really wanted a bigger vehicle that my ute or wife's small AWD. Love my combination of tug & tow. It's all down to personal choice - comfort & safety.
macka17 said
10:18 AM Aug 10, 2017
I was spoilt in my first towing.
22ft \15ft vans, Diesel landrovers UK from '63 onwards.
Small vans.
Subaru Outback (3.6), Falcon\Holden still avail second hand.
Still do a good job.
Although.
2 wd Basic dual\Maxi\Single cab utes. do a better job than cars,
Can go a few more places.
MUCH more versatile for carrying etc, Than any car\SUV.
1.5 ton up. Large SUV. 4wd Ute, Pajero\Prado etc.
2.5 ton up. the big 3 are safe.
4wd Utes. Prado JEEP. Pajero etc.
On their practical limits.
NOT really safe from there on up.
Read up a little on Recommendations. Not posts on Forums.
According to MOST owners of.
Every car\veh. Labelled to 3 and 3.5ton. are legal to tow those weights. NOT.
Legal. Maybe. practical and safe. Not really.
Eaglemax said
03:37 PM Aug 10, 2017
Well thanks. You've all educated me. I wouldnt have thought about some being 2WD. I can also understand crook knees needing higher in/out height.
Also we often hit dirt patches with lots of corrugation and our car shakes about. So strength is a good reason.
By the way....all you owners of white 4wd and white caravans....do you get discount off your white goods insurance? .........just a little joke there. :)
RustyD said
04:03 PM Aug 10, 2017
Eaglemax wrote:
all you owners of white 4wd and white caravans....do you get discount off your white goods insurance?
I wish.
With my Ranger I get a all sorts of discounts on registration - distance from capital city, pensioner, goods carrying
Normal rego $801, my Ranger $279.
SouthernComfort said
04:46 PM Aug 10, 2017
Eaglemax wrote:
Well thanks. You've all educated me. I wouldnt have thought about some being 2WD. I can also understand crook knees needing higher in/out height. Also we often hit dirt patches with lots of corrugation and our car shakes about. So strength is a good reason. By the way....all you owners of white 4wd and white caravans....do you get discount off your white goods insurance? .........just a little joke there. :)
I think mine cancel each other out (dark grey tug, white 'van). At least they don't charge extra for the tug!!
JayDee said
05:02 PM Aug 10, 2017
Eaglemax wrote:
Ok, this post isnt meant to be anti 4WD. But years ago Holdens, Fords and more likely the Valiant roamed the land...sorry, bitumen towing 22ft vans. I even towed a heavy Franklin with a Datsun 260C coupe all 2600cc of it. What I'm suggesting here is the non off road vanner...still tows with a 4x4 now. We're near Dubbo returning from Bundy to home Strathbogie Vic. Total trip only one non 4x4 seen towing a van It was a 1998 Statesman and 16' poptop. Modern cars lack of chassis strength is one reason but under 18ft surely is a preferable tug comfort wise, maintenance and use for daily urban transport where its use is 95% of the time. Your thoughts?. Is it the diesel or gearing?
My answer is "WHY NOT SO MANY 4X4
Jay&Dee
Desert Dweller said
06:51 PM Aug 10, 2017
A lot of folk dream of travelling to remote areas of our land with their 4x4 towing an ''off road caravan'' but are totally addicted to caravan parks on the bitumen constantly washing & polishing their investment. Looks tough though, even to if they're too scared to poo in their en-suite.
RustyD said
07:17 PM Aug 10, 2017
We tend to stay on bitumen towing. In SA there are excellent dirt roads that you need to take to really see the place. Our van, although not an off-road type, handles reasonable dirt roads.
If we go dirt it's usually good and not that far from bitumen and stay with our van still hitched - walkabout or just sit and relax - for day or two. If we want to do long day trips off the bitumen, we check into a secure van park. Works good for us.
macka17 said
07:17 PM Aug 10, 2017
Basically.
larger vans. = larger tugs.
The big three have wider longer heavier wheelbases.
Which equates to all the above. Linked with a torquier engine. and. (Normally)
much wider gear ratio's. 2 and 4 wh drive.
Three times as many with the 2h\4h\4l
Utes the same. Just lower in the tow weight category.
Basically a stronger, better geared veh, with more grip on deck.
Plus you CAN go, and return from. Places a car can't.
Less comfort. More practicality. MORE cost.
Bruce and Bev said
09:33 PM Aug 10, 2017
well the next generation will be towing their vans with electric vehicles - yeah right !!
RustyD said
10:14 PM Aug 10, 2017
Nah. Nuclear. Small version of a nuclear submarine engine.
Eaglemax said
10:35 PM Aug 10, 2017
From North Korea...;)
Aus-Kiwi said
12:42 AM Aug 11, 2017
Turbo diesel is king of torque and economy !! More so the newer single rail engines .
Lancelot Link said
01:58 AM Aug 11, 2017
Bad knees, better to step up and step down rather than try and get out of a low vehicle! Simple fact of life! Other than that, the view is far better sitting higher, get to see more!
Bagmaker said
07:50 AM Aug 11, 2017
Electric tugs would be an excellent option for Nomads, heaps more power, recharged from panels, a few hours running time, smooth and easy driving.
As too why so many 4 x 4, go to the local school drop-off for an answer, as if the yummy mummy brigade all need a 200 series to do that............
hako said
08:46 AM Aug 11, 2017
Bagmaker wrote:
Electric tugs would be an excellent option for Nomads, heaps more power, recharged from panels, a few hours running time, smooth and easy driving. SNIP..
That reminds me of "The search for the golden boomerang" and ABC wireless years ago....they drove around in a producer gas vehicle and when they ran low on fuel they would make their own charcoal. A modern version would have their vehicle operating as you suggest.
Good Luck.
RustyD said
11:53 AM Aug 11, 2017
We may go back to this. WW2 vehicle. Eat baked beans and fill up the container.
Dunno. Twenty five or so years ago I towed a twin axle 24' van with shower/toilet/heating etc all over Europe including over the Alps from Switzerland into Italy with a 2.6lt Rover SD1 family car. Such setups are common in Europe - the 4WD is more of an Aussie thing.
jonesboy said
08:02 PM Aug 11, 2017
How about Isuzu Mux 4x2 with a 3 litre turbo diesel and 6 speed auto. Seems designed for towing -3000kg capacity.
JocknNik said
10:00 PM Aug 11, 2017
OK, we would have to be rare beasts.
After owning 4x4s since the early '80s, we decided as we are now both retired, and without a huge super back-up, to opt for a 4x2 hi-ride DMax to tow our Coromal Seka 505 that's around 1.5 tonne all-up. We had used the 4wds mainly on farm properties (feral control), and bush-bashing into reasonably difficult-access fishing places and launching on shorelines, a bit of outback bush work too. But we've left the ferals in peace now. We just want to fish out of our smallish boat and kayaks.
Our travel is not likely to be seriously offroad with the van. And we reckon the fuel- and service savings with 2wd is worth the lesser capability. But if we were towing any van over 2 tonne, we would have plumped for a 4x4 for towing sure-footed safety. We know we'll miss some of the capability of the 4x4 but choose to try to avoid really difficult situations. One big advantage... much better turning circle with the 4x2 which can be real handy at times. Horses for courses. We're more than happy with our choice after 12 months.
I have towed caravans for quite some time now since the 1970's. I first towed with a F100 2wd ute. Later though I towed with a holden commodore ute until they reduced the towing capacity to 1600kg from 2100 and that sort of forced me to seek something with a higher towing capacity which ended up being a 4wd Kia sorento. Later in our retirement years we tow with a 4wd Navara.
Why? because the Navara has a higher towing capacity than equivalent 2wd vehicles and also offers the opportunity of exploring some areas that would be inaccessible to a 2wd vehicle while the van is back at the camp site.
The other reason is I get a nice powerful diesel engine to tow my van and better stability from a heavier tow vehicle.
Mate that is my excuse anyway
Frank
I tow a Stirling Outback poptop using a Ranger 4x4, I have used a Commodore to tow a camper trailer but find a 4x4 a lot more convenient as we also use it semi off road when free camping and also been into the Grampians etc in areas 2wd cannot venture. It all depends on the type of camping and driving you want to do, well in My case it works for me
Goanna
Not all the SUV's you're seeing are 4x4 of course, many including mine are 2wd with similar engine & drive train to a large sedan, but by perception they still get lumped into the 4x bracket! Even the 2wd varieties provide beefed up chassis/suspension (possibly), higher ride, arguably better visibility from the helm, slightly higher tow rating and more load space than the larger sedans. And since no one builds large station wagons any longer, we're nudged into SUV's (or dual cab utes) instead. I agree though that many genuine 4x4's in use are an overkill unless trekking properly off-road or hauling QE2 size 'vans, in which case the higher tow cap. is needed.
-- Edited by SouthernComfort on Thursday 10th of August 2017 08:17:34 AM
one thing most have overlooked here is that most vanners ( GN that is ) are exploring the back end as well as the Bitumen and a 4wd will hold up better to the rigours of the back end , furthermore a lot of caravanners use their vehicles to venture into the off road secenarios like fraser island or rainbow beach ( adventurous soles they be ) , plus if your on a slippery mud surface in a free camp your normal car will have no traction , even without a van on at times . Anyway thats my take on it .
We dont do a lot of off road driving but over the years we have found some beautiful places that a conventional car would not get us too.
When I purchased by Jurgens 1901 2 years ago I towed it with a Falcon BA ute. Tons of power & torque. After 2 trips I purchased a Ranger 4WD dual cab.
The Maverick was great for towing (aka Nissan Patrol). The Falcon wagons were OK. I never felt comfortable towing with the others. Needed levelling bars but with levelling bars, the on-board hydraulic ram brakes brakes didn't work effectively.
I upgraded from Falcon Ute to the Ranger as I needed the dual cab for the back seat (dog & grandson). Front Cabin space is also much better. Also both wife & self were finding it harder and harder to get in & out of the lower-to-ground ute. Got the 4WD over the 2WD as I got a great deal that has turned out to be great. Got bogged on our footpath a few times and also in a sandy free camp spot. Need 4WD low to get out.
The Ranger feels a lot more stable towing. Feels like the car is in control of the van rather than the van in control of the car.
The Ranger is too big to drive comfortably around town. Hence my wife's small AWD does all the tripping about. Ranger is only used when wife is using her car & I need to go out, and pulling the van.
When I bought the Jurgens, I was looking at a light van and a medium AWD to tow it. Got the light van but decided that I really wanted a bigger vehicle that my ute or wife's small AWD. Love my combination of tug & tow. It's all down to personal choice - comfort & safety.
22ft \15ft vans, Diesel landrovers UK from '63 onwards.
Small vans.
Subaru Outback (3.6), Falcon\Holden still avail second hand.
Still do a good job.
Although.
2 wd Basic dual\Maxi\Single cab utes. do a better job than cars,
Can go a few more places.
MUCH more versatile for carrying etc, Than any car\SUV.
1.5 ton up. Large SUV. 4wd Ute, Pajero\Prado etc.
2.5 ton up. the big 3 are safe.
4wd Utes. Prado JEEP. Pajero etc.
On their practical limits.
NOT really safe from there on up.
Read up a little on Recommendations. Not posts on Forums.
According to MOST owners of.
Every car\veh. Labelled to 3 and 3.5ton. are legal to tow those weights. NOT.
Legal. Maybe. practical and safe. Not really.
I wish.
With my Ranger I get a all sorts of discounts on registration - distance from capital city, pensioner, goods carrying
Normal rego $801, my Ranger $279.
I think mine cancel each other out (dark grey tug, white 'van). At least they don't charge extra for the tug!!
My answer is "WHY NOT SO MANY 4X4
Jay&Dee
A lot of folk dream of travelling to remote areas of our land with their 4x4 towing an ''off road caravan'' but are totally addicted to caravan parks on the bitumen constantly washing & polishing their investment. Looks tough though, even to if they're too scared to poo in their en-suite.
If we go dirt it's usually good and not that far from bitumen and stay with our van still hitched - walkabout or just sit and relax - for day or two. If we want to do long day trips off the bitumen, we check into a secure van park. Works good for us.
larger vans. = larger tugs.
The big three have wider longer heavier wheelbases.
Which equates to all the above. Linked with a torquier engine. and. (Normally)
much wider gear ratio's. 2 and 4 wh drive.
Three times as many with the 2h\4h\4l
Utes the same. Just lower in the tow weight category.
Basically a stronger, better geared veh, with more grip on deck.
Plus you CAN go, and return from. Places a car can't.
Less comfort. More practicality. MORE cost.
As too why so many 4 x 4, go to the local school drop-off for an answer, as if the yummy mummy brigade all need a 200 series to do that............
That reminds me of "The search for the golden boomerang" and ABC wireless years ago....they drove around in a producer gas vehicle and when they ran low on fuel they would make their own charcoal. A modern version would have their vehicle operating as you suggest.
Good Luck.
We may go back to this. WW2 vehicle. Eat baked beans and fill up the container.
No 4WD's here. But of course it was an "Aerolite van. Would have made a big difference in those days (1959).
> Why so many 4x4's?
Dunno. Twenty five or so years ago I towed a twin axle 24' van with shower/toilet/heating etc all over Europe including over the Alps from Switzerland into Italy with a 2.6lt Rover SD1 family car. Such setups are common in Europe - the 4WD is more of an Aussie thing.
After owning 4x4s since the early '80s, we decided as we are now both retired, and without a huge super back-up, to opt for a 4x2 hi-ride DMax to tow our Coromal Seka 505 that's around 1.5 tonne all-up. We had used the 4wds mainly on farm properties (feral control), and bush-bashing into reasonably difficult-access fishing places and launching on shorelines, a bit of outback bush work too. But we've left the ferals in peace now. We just want to fish out of our smallish boat and kayaks.
Our travel is not likely to be seriously offroad with the van. And we reckon the fuel- and service savings with 2wd is worth the lesser capability. But if we were towing any van over 2 tonne, we would have plumped for a 4x4 for towing sure-footed safety. We know we'll miss some of the capability of the 4x4 but choose to try to avoid really difficult situations. One big advantage... much better turning circle with the 4x2 which can be real handy at times. Horses for courses. We're more than happy with our choice after 12 months.