Hi all. We are in process of purchasing a new van (our first) and chose not to have a grey water tank included. This is because most of our caravan buddies say not necessary use a bucket for grey water containment. We intend to do a lot of free camping where possible. i have since read in recent article that many free camp sites, especially the newer ones now insist on vans with self containment only. Has anyone come across this. I guess we should get back to the manufacturer and insist on inclusion of a grey water tank? Your views would Be appreciated.
Thanks.
Yours in caravanning,
Skoobiedoo.
Bagmaker said
04:49 PM Jul 26, 2017
Better to be looking at them than looking for them.
Eaglemax said
05:03 PM Jul 26, 2017
My understanding is that allowing grey water to drain into a container (20L ) with screw top and you take it with you passes for "contained".
Stand to be corrected.
rayjudesmith said
05:11 PM Jul 26, 2017
You can get a portable 20/40L tank on wheels. Much easier to pull that to the dump point than have to drive the van to the dump point and empty. You also don't get a build up of odours etc if you are unable to empty as often as needed. We have a portable one and it is great.
Hi Skoobiedoo,
simple question yet it can cause hysterics in some circles. It all comes down to what we like to call "self contained". Not a lot of folks agree. I mean if taking off and leaving a container behind accidentally is self contained, well and good.
But I am biased as I put a self contained tank in....easy for me to talk as I did it myself.
A bucket on the ground is just as self contained as a drum if left to over flow, I would say.
I reckon the point of the deal is to not over pollute a known, good, and well used camping area and not to have spillage in that area. Consider that the area might be bitumen. It is to easy to forget about a container overflowing.
So whatever we do or think, with out judgement, others in the relative council will only accept on board facilities. I t really is for them to decide in the end, and not us.....Just saying.
PeterInSa said
05:37 PM Jul 26, 2017
Re (You can get a portable 20/40L tank on wheels. Much easier to pull that to the dump point than have to drive the van to the dump point and empty. You also don't get a build up of odours etc if you are unable to empty as often as needed.) Agree
To me a built in unit is great for a Motorhome or Campervan, you drive the RV to the dump point, but with a caravan... hook up and drive and then return to the same site?? with a Tote Tank you load into the tug and empty whether its 400m away or 4Km.
The CMCA now accepts tote tanks (with valving to prevent spills) at their RV member only sites.
I think a tote Tank gives you more free/low cost camping options, the challenge is where to store it when not required.
Peter
macka17 said
05:44 PM Jul 26, 2017
And Convenience covers all steps.
2 or 3 water tanks.
have another one fitted separate to them. Piped to sink with dual outlet.
One to drain. other to tank.
All you doing is transferring volume from point to point. NO extra weight.
It will come to the day. not too far in future.
When we ALL will have to carry a proper tank.
Temp are just a fill in job.
My little Van had a 64ltr water.
I just added a 90 ltr new.
and piped the old one into sink drain.
Outlet tap to ground or pipe to Dump point..
John Kay said
07:00 PM Jul 26, 2017
Hi Skoobeedoo,
Short answer is yes get one if finance allows it.
Our travel experiences around this great country of ours there were several places that we need it.
We used a 20 litre container with a screw cap.
There was only one place that would not allow any body in without a proper fitted grey water system.
Go for it and live your dream.
Regards John.
Big Mal said
07:58 PM Jul 26, 2017
If you look at various free camp listings they go on about contain when in reality a lot of them don't require it, the tree huggers are pushing the issue, just a bit of common sense is required but since a lot don't have any the requirement for having a tank will increase.
I have made a twin 150mm PVC tube tank, it holds 90lts, fits behind the wheels and by turning the drain tap off it becomes a holding tank, the main thing is it can be cleaned by removing the end cap and hosing out all the goobers that collect, so it doesn't pong like the converted water tanks that others use.
Some places like winery's you need a grey water tank just because of the car park type location and in reality the 20lt bucket is a pain, they overflow, and you hae to carry the damn things......
A long hose to a tree is no drama and the grey water is not going to kill anyone, hell my yard for over 25 yrs was green as that was the only water it could get, no town water just tanks..
.
Hey Jim said
09:39 PM Jul 26, 2017
Skoobiedoo wrote:
Hi all. We are in process of purchasing a new van (our first) and chose not to have a grey water tank included. This is because most of our caravan buddies say not necessary use a bucket for grey water containment. We intend to do a lot of free camping where possible. i have since read in recent article that many free camp sites, especially the newer ones now insist on vans with self containment only. Has anyone come across this. I guess we should get back to the manufacturer and insist on inclusion of a grey water tank? Your views would Be appreciated. Thanks. Yours in caravanning, Skoobiedoo.
Hi Skoobiedoo,
If the funds are there Do it.
Factory fitted you get 2 Hypo one way flap valves. Stops the smells flowing back into the van from body hair etc.
Jayco did ours on the assembly line. Still stuffed that job up as well.
Inverted the Hypo Valves as well.
Had to email them the fitting instructions on how to install.
Real bright Eh. Quality control. Drrrrrrrrr not.
Cost us $600 extra fitted. Cost them a whole lot more. Dick Heads.
There after I in stalled x 2 bypass ball valves so I can hold or let the trees have some.
You can see their clear flattened hoses out of the factory, as well in these photos. That's standard issue by their standards.
I ended up doing / using proper reinforced hose the correct way, As their agent would not.
Purchased a spare toilet toilet cassette than can collect grey water or go longer before dump points. Black or grey, full it will go in my ute.
Eaglemax said
09:45 PM Jul 26, 2017
Hi Big Mal
Great idea but how many can carry 90 kg of grey water plus weight of two six inch pipes and caps? Plus good water. Batteries etc. Gee I'd have to leave mi undies at home :)
Big Mal said
04:01 AM Jul 27, 2017
Eaglemax, who runs around with a grey water tank full, when I do it doesn't go very far and besides one water tank would be empty anyway so no increase in weight........it's never long till I find a needy tree.....................................I rarely stay long at the places that demand holding everything they are usually a bit Nimby for my liking....Have contained and evry evening did a bucket walk to some nearby tree's as dropping on the ground would just make a bog hole no matter how long the hose.
If just got a sink to drain then a bucket is okay.
My tank would cost about $200 to make......my other van I made a 40lt tank......the current rig is all geared up to miss the caravan parks most of the time .
KevinC said
07:09 AM Jul 27, 2017
A grey water tank gives you total choice over disposal of waste water from your van. You may choose to empty the tank into a bucket, or let the water run on the ground, or connect a hose and use a van park's waste system. But you choose depending on the situation at the time. Much more convenient than having to do the bucket trick in the rain after a morning tea stop.
We wouldn't be without our tank. We can stop anywhere, live normally, and never offend anyone.
Izabarack said
07:32 AM Jul 27, 2017
The bucket idea is well on the way out. I sent a couple of pictures of overflowing buckets to a Council CEO just last week. The trend is towards sealed gray water systems and an installed tank is the best, quickest, most convenient, and ,probably, the best value for money way to go. If a new van, choosing not to have a tank will likely lead to regrets.
Iza
Dougwe said
09:13 AM Jul 27, 2017
KevinC wrote:
A grey water tank gives you total choice over disposal of waste water from your van. You may choose to empty the tank into a bucket, or let the water run on the ground, or connect a hose and use a van park's waste system. But you choose depending on the situation at the time. Much more convenient than having to do the bucket trick in the rain after a morning tea stop. We wouldn't be without our tank. We can stop anywhere, live normally, and never offend anyone.
No truer words ever spoken Kevin, agree 100%. Well done.
I have a fitted Grey Water tank and have no regrets at all.
Aus-Kiwi said
10:26 AM Jul 27, 2017
Yes but mainly to confirm with authorities . Free camping or overnight stays in recreation grounds .
Skoobiedoo said
11:01 AM Jul 27, 2017
Thanks everyone for your very helpful responses. I guess I will get a gw tank installed to cover our bases but will also use camp kitchens and external facilities where possible to reduce usage.
Happy caravanning everyone. Can't wait to join youð
PeterD said
02:56 PM Jul 27, 2017
PeterInSa wrote:
The CMCA now accepts tote tanks (with valving to prevent spills) at their RV member only sites.
I think a tote Tank gives you more free/low cost camping options, the challenge is where to store it when not required.
Just remember that the CMCA is just but one of the "authorities" that certifies installations or recommends minimum requirements. There are some places you can stay (Cairns is the prime example) that do not accept installations that conform to ACC or CMCA minimum standards. Their thing against external tanks connected to the vans plumbing is what happen when the sullage backs up into the vans plumbing. What do you do to contain the sullage contained the hose and the vans plumbing? How do you prevent that liquid landing on the ground?
I am one of those who has installed a tank. It is not a large one but gives me at least 3 nights camping. If I require longer then I can decant some of the sullage and take it off site. As others have said, it gives you more flexibility for lunch stops and quick camping than I had before I installed the tank. When staging I can stop somewhere without having to put a bucket or hose out, I just make sure I land in a spot where I can empty the tank every third night.
Also I see there are that those who don't have a clue again blaming "the greenies." The fact is that there were some councils who were in the throws of closing freedom camp-sites down. The CMCA persuaded that we could not leave a mess behind if the camps were not closed down but restricted to self contained campers. Rather than blaming others we should be thanking the CMCA for saving those sites for at least those of us who are prepared to conform to the councils wishes. If you do not wish to camp at those places you do not have to fit tanks. the choice is yours. Don't blame others, many of those camp-sites would have been closed to everyone.
Big Mal said
04:16 PM Jul 27, 2017
Well said Kevin C ,
though Skoobiedoo it may be a heap cheaper to get it done after you get the van then you will get it done properly, the drain on them must be of the large variety, it must be capable of getting flushed out so not just be a rebadged water tank thats why folks say they smell. Also the drains need to ba able to flow into the thing some that come with them already fitted are just a bodgy job.
Izabarack said
05:35 PM Jul 27, 2017
Cooktown, last time I was there, required a fitted, plumbed in gray water tank before using the free camping spot provided. A Council Ranger would arrive witin minutes of you arriving to check. I saw lots of unhappy travellers get their marching orders if not properly equiped. BTW, very happy with the council requirements as it seems to keep many of the grubs away as a bonus outcome.
Iza
JohnR said
08:30 PM Jul 27, 2017
Big Mal
You tell us that your dual 150 ml pvc sewerage grade tanks (pipes) hold 90ltres.
Can you tell me what length they are??
We have 150 x 85 that hold 32.5 litres x 2 giving 65 litres in total.
Cheers
JohnR
Chris61 said
06:28 PM Jul 28, 2017
KevinC wrote:
A grey water tank gives you total choice over disposal of waste water from your van. You may choose to empty the tank into a bucket, or let the water run on the ground, or connect a hose and use a van park's waste system. But you choose depending on the situation at the time. Much more convenient than having to do the bucket trick in the rain after a morning tea stop. We wouldn't be without our tank. We can stop anywhere, live normally, and never offend anyone.
You sum it up perfectly Kevin. You have the choice to run it on the ground if they allow it, you can hold it if they ask for that. How easy is that, you have another option if you have a grey water tank.
PeterD said
07:02 PM Jul 28, 2017
JohnR wrote:
You tell us that your dual 150 ml pvc sewerage grade tanks (pipes) hold 90ltres.
Can you tell me what length they are??
A 150 mm pipe will have a capacity of approximately 16.2860 litres per meter.
JohnR said
08:10 PM Jul 28, 2017
Peter D
Sorry my typing.
The 150 ml sewerage grade x 2 pipes are 185cm holding 32.5litres each giving 65 litres in total.
Just check Mr Google to see what length/width pipes needed to hold 90 litres.
I think I have thrown these pics up several times before.
However, I still have people coming over asking about the set up and after 3 yrs + they are working to perfection with only the caps being replaced due to failing seals. I have to laugh when I see this convoluted set ups and sealed holding tanks people brag about.
If you cannot access to clean and allow to air they will HOLD the smell.
Plastic fuel tanks fit up well . 60 or so litres ..
Aus-Kiwi said
10:14 AM Jul 29, 2017
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/232417106039
Hey Jim said
09:27 PM Jul 29, 2017
Hi John R,
Yes you are 100% on the smell. I saw your setup when you posted on Grey water tankage. We had our van signed sealed and Stuffed up from delivery.
I got the sh...ts when I climbed below on my garage creaper. Even with my 2 x Hypo valves fitted I crossed my T's & X my I's.
I installed 2 x 65mm screw bungs, one high on the inlet end and the other on the outlet low end, to allow my gurnie to flush the 85lt tank.
If I had had my time over. I would have done exactly / copied yours, doing the total job myself and saved $$$.I live and learn with our first van.
Iana I think, did copy yours as well. I like it so much . I may end up starting over. So simple, Practical. And best of all Its plumbed and done right.Plus I can put my water tanks back in the correct position.
If only Jayco could pull their fingers out Eh!!!!!!!
Regards Jim
Warren-Pat_01 said
10:53 PM Jul 29, 2017
The advantage of having it done by the manufacturer & not the dealer is that the weight of the tank & associated equipment would be included in the tare weight of the van.
My issues with 6" pvc pipe is the reduction in ground clearance - going into places like Bladensburg NP would see the pipes being scraped off! Already had the small 35mm grey water pipes scraped off after running over a sheet of tin on the Bruce Highway north of Rockhampton a few months ago.
You can get a portable 20/40L tank on wheels. Much easier to pull that to the dump point than have to drive the van to the dump point and empty. You also don't get a build up of odours etc if you are unable to empty as often as needed. We have a portable one and it is great.
simple question yet it can cause hysterics in some circles. It all comes down to what we like to call "self contained". Not a lot of folks agree. I mean if taking off and leaving a container behind accidentally is self contained, well and good.
But I am biased as I put a self contained tank in....easy for me to talk as I did it myself.
A bucket on the ground is just as self contained as a drum if left to over flow, I would say.
I reckon the point of the deal is to not over pollute a known, good, and well used camping area and not to have spillage in that area. Consider that the area might be bitumen. It is to easy to forget about a container overflowing.
So whatever we do or think, with out judgement, others in the relative council will only accept on board facilities. I t really is for them to decide in the end, and not us.....Just saying.
To me a built in unit is great for a Motorhome or Campervan, you drive the RV to the dump point, but with a caravan... hook up and drive and then return to the same site?? with a Tote Tank you load into the tug and empty whether its 400m away or 4Km.
The CMCA now accepts tote tanks (with valving to prevent spills) at their RV member only sites.
I think a tote Tank gives you more free/low cost camping options, the challenge is where to store it when not required.
Peter
2 or 3 water tanks.
have another one fitted separate to them. Piped to sink with dual outlet.
One to drain. other to tank.
All you doing is transferring volume from point to point. NO extra weight.
It will come to the day. not too far in future.
When we ALL will have to carry a proper tank.
Temp are just a fill in job.
My little Van had a 64ltr water.
I just added a 90 ltr new.
and piped the old one into sink drain.
Outlet tap to ground or pipe to Dump point..
Short answer is yes get one if finance allows it.
Our travel experiences around this great country of ours there were several places that we need it.
We used a 20 litre container with a screw cap.
There was only one place that would not allow any body in without a proper fitted grey water system.
Go for it and live your dream.
Regards John.
I have made a twin 150mm PVC tube tank, it holds 90lts, fits behind the wheels and by turning the drain tap off it becomes a holding tank, the main thing is it can be cleaned by removing the end cap and hosing out all the goobers that collect, so it doesn't pong like the converted water tanks that others use.
Some places like winery's you need a grey water tank just because of the car park type location and in reality the 20lt bucket is a pain, they overflow, and you hae to carry the damn things......
A long hose to a tree is no drama and the grey water is not going to kill anyone, hell my yard for over 25 yrs was green as that was the only water it could get, no town water just tanks..
.
Hi Skoobiedoo,
If the funds are there Do it.
Factory fitted you get 2 Hypo one way flap valves. Stops the smells flowing back into the van from body hair etc.
Jayco did ours on the assembly line
. Still stuffed that job up as well.
Inverted the Hypo Valves as well.
Had to email them the fitting instructions on how to install.
Real bright Eh
. Quality control. Drrrrrrrrr not.
Cost us $600 extra fitted. Cost them a whole lot more.
Dick Heads.
There after I in stalled x 2 bypass ball valves so I can hold or let the trees have some.
You can see their clear flattened hoses out of the factory, as well in these photos. That's standard issue by their standards.
I ended up doing / using proper reinforced hose the correct way, As their agent would not.
Never had a issue there after.
Hope this helps.
Jim
If just got a sink to drain then a bucket is okay.
My tank would cost about $200 to make......my other van I made a 40lt tank......the current rig is all geared up to miss the caravan parks most of the time .
We wouldn't be without our tank. We can stop anywhere, live normally, and never offend anyone.
Iza
No truer words ever spoken Kevin, agree 100%. Well done.
I have a fitted Grey Water tank and have no regrets at all.
Just remember that the CMCA is just but one of the "authorities" that certifies installations or recommends minimum requirements. There are some places you can stay (Cairns is the prime example) that do not accept installations that conform to ACC or CMCA minimum standards. Their thing against external tanks connected to the vans plumbing is what happen when the sullage backs up into the vans plumbing. What do you do to contain the sullage contained the hose and the vans plumbing? How do you prevent that liquid landing on the ground?
I am one of those who has installed a tank. It is not a large one but gives me at least 3 nights camping. If I require longer then I can decant some of the sullage and take it off site. As others have said, it gives you more flexibility for lunch stops and quick camping than I had before I installed the tank. When staging I can stop somewhere without having to put a bucket or hose out, I just make sure I land in a spot where I can empty the tank every third night.
Also I see there are that those who don't have a clue again blaming "the greenies." The fact is that there were some councils who were in the throws of closing freedom camp-sites down. The CMCA persuaded that we could not leave a mess behind if the camps were not closed down but restricted to self contained campers. Rather than blaming others we should be thanking the CMCA for saving those sites for at least those of us who are prepared to conform to the councils wishes. If you do not wish to camp at those places you do not have to fit tanks. the choice is yours. Don't blame others, many of those camp-sites would have been closed to everyone.
though Skoobiedoo it may be a heap cheaper to get it done after you get the van then you will get it done properly, the drain on them must be of the large variety, it must be capable of getting flushed out so not just be a rebadged water tank thats why folks say they smell. Also the drains need to ba able to flow into the thing some that come with them already fitted are just a bodgy job.
Iza
Big Mal
You tell us that your dual 150 ml pvc sewerage grade tanks (pipes) hold 90ltres.
Can you tell me what length they are??
We have 150 x 85 that hold 32.5 litres x 2 giving 65 litres in total.
Cheers
JohnR
You sum it up perfectly Kevin. You have the choice to run it on the ground if they allow it, you can hold it if they ask for that. How easy is that, you have another option if you have a grey water tank.
A 150 mm pipe will have a capacity of approximately 16.2860 litres per meter.
Peter D
Sorry my typing.
The 150 ml sewerage grade x 2 pipes are 185cm holding 32.5litres each giving 65 litres in total.
Just check Mr Google to see what length/width pipes needed to hold 90 litres.
I think I have thrown these pics up several times before.
However, I still have people coming over asking about the set up and after 3 yrs + they are working to perfection with only the caps being replaced due to failing seals. I have to laugh when I see this convoluted set ups and sealed holding tanks people brag about.
If you cannot access to clean and allow to air they will HOLD the smell.
Cheers
JohnR
Hi John R,
Yes you are 100% on the smell. I saw your setup when you posted on Grey water tankage. We had our van signed sealed and Stuffed up from delivery.
I got the sh...ts when I climbed below on my garage creaper. Even with my 2 x Hypo valves fitted I crossed my T's & X my I's.
I installed 2 x 65mm screw bungs, one high on the inlet end and the other on the outlet low end, to allow my gurnie to flush the 85lt tank.
If I had had my time over. I would have done exactly / copied yours, doing the total job myself and saved $$$.I live and learn with our first van.
Iana I think, did copy yours as well. I like it so much . I may end up starting over. So simple, Practical. And best of all Its plumbed and done right.
Plus I can put my water tanks back in the correct position.
If only Jayco could pull their fingers out Eh!!!!!!!
Regards Jim
My issues with 6" pvc pipe is the reduction in ground clearance - going into places like Bladensburg NP would see the pipes being scraped off! Already had the small 35mm grey water pipes scraped off after running over a sheet of tin on the Bruce Highway north of Rockhampton a few months ago.
Warren