Hi all, I am slowly outfitting my IMAX van as a camper home.
After much research I have decided to purchase an Engel MT45FC-P 40lt fridge/freezer combi.
The stats say the DC power consumption is... Variable from 0.5 to 2.7 AMPS Maximum.
At the moment I can't put solar panels on the roof as I am waiting for a euro pop top to be imported from Germany.
My question is,
Will I be able to use a portable or suitcase type of solar charger to keep the fridge going when I am free camping?
What battery would I need to connect the solar to?
Hope my questions are not too simplistic, but unfortunately my mind is.
Cheers,
Jewel
oldtrack123 said
01:30 PM Jul 6, 2017
Jewel wrote:
Hi all, I am slowly outfitting my IMAX van as a camper home.
After much research I have decided to purchase an Engel MT45FC-P 40lt fridge/freezer combi.
The stats say the DC power consumption is... Variable from 0.5 to 2.7 AMPS Maximum.
At the moment I can't put solar panels on the roof as I am waiting for a euro pop top to be imported from Germany.
My question is,
Will I be able to use a portable or suitcase type of solar charger to keep the fridge going when I am free camping?
What battery would I need to connect the solar to?
Hope my questions are not too simplistic, but unfortunately my mind is.
Cheers,
Jewel
Hi Jewel
No quick easy answer
& do not be fooled by the Specs for the fridge
It will actually draw the MAX current when ever it is actually running
Many factors involved include:
[a]Ambient temp surrounding the fridge
fridge thermostat setting[how cold you run it ]
[c]warm loading
but for fridge use [not freezer] you can expect around min of 48Ahrs per 24hrs
To maintain that you would need ,at the very least ,a 140W panel ., but that would not have capacity to spare to replace power used from the battery when little solar power input, so a larger panel is required
What size Auxillary battery do you have ??
Izabarack said
02:53 PM Jul 6, 2017
Not sure you have the specs correct there. Fridges draw a fixed value of current when running the compressor. Every 40 litre Engel I have tested drew between 2.45 and 2.5 Amps, when the compressor is running. What size starter battery does the IMAX have? I know many who get by by hooking an 80 or 100 Watt panel to the starter battery during the day then running the Engel low over night. Most of the 40 litre Engel owners I know work on the fridge using about 12 Amp Hours over night. I have had a 40 litre Engel in one model or the other since 1984.
Iza
macka17 said
04:47 PM Jul 6, 2017
Don't know about Engel. I've only ever had Waeco. Marine and mobile.
My 50, then 80ltrs. kept in rear of Patrol then D-Max.
run off one 80w panel if mobile. On roof of vehicle.
Bit have cable that I can couple up to van supply\panels if req,d.
6 to 7 a when started. run between 2 to 2.5a When up and running. Full.
1\2 empty uses a lot more.
Get fr up and stabilised with engine running.
Solar with decent battery will run it o.night comfortably then.
ALSO.
I went to Industrial Insulation suppliers.
Bought 1 and a half mtrs of 17mm Hard Duct lagging. Silver backed.
Cut and fitted round fridge incl a fold back top for it.(80ltr unit)
Fridge formed condensation on it's lid in rear of Patrol it was that efficient.
Really does make fridges work\hold cold better.
Extra Insulation is the secret to best efficiency with those things in vehicles.
Try it.
Jewel said
07:54 PM Jul 6, 2017
Thanks for the reply oldtrack123.
I'm starting from scratch... don't have an auxiliary battery yet.
Hi Iza, thanks for your reply.
The specs for the fridge came from the Engel website.?? As for the size of the starter battery in the IMAX, I'm afraid I wouldn't have a clue. I would be too scared to run it off my starter battery in the daytime, would' know how to deal with a flat battery.
Thanks Macka, am wanting to be able to stay at a nice spot when I find them so am wanting a system that will keep me independent for a week or two... or three.
The extra insulation makes a lot of sense.
Cheers,
Jewel
PS Please keep the replies coming. I appreciate everyone's opinions.
oldtrack123 said
11:57 AM Jul 7, 2017
Hi Jewel
Sadly many fridge makers play around with current ratings to make their fridge look good BUT do not tell you what they are based on
The only rating that really counts is the WATTS rating
Divide that by 12 & you get the current the fridge draws while running flat out.
The actual total Ahrs per day will then depend on conditions of use such as I outlined in previous post
Jewel said
03:39 PM Jul 7, 2017
Thanks oldtrack, I will keep that info in mind.
I went back to the Engel website and it doesn't say anything about WATTS. ???
Izabarack said
07:07 AM Jul 8, 2017
No, the Engel site does not list Watts and the 0.5 to 2.5 Amps is misleading. The 2.5 Amps makes sense if the compressor runs continuously for an hour. You can confidently know that the fridge has used 2.5 Amp Hours for that continuous compressor run time. The 0.5 makes sense if the compressor ran for 20% of the hour (12 minutes) while drawing 2.5 Amps (current). Real time use of energy by a compressor fridge is determined by Duty Cycle as the time running and the time when the compressor is not running. In 40 degree weather, my 40 litre runs for up to 80% of the hour, in cold weather, as low as that 20%. Of the hour. The energy draw across time can be measured, but difficult because you need some sort of logger, but experienced owners work on 12 AH per 12 hours in about 20 Degree ambient. That's the figure I suggested earlier. If you had a 80 -100 panel in good sun on the vehicle start battery all day, the start battery should be plenty capable of powering the fridge overnight and still start the vehicle in the morning. That is the experience of many, many Engel owners I know.
Iza
Jewel said
05:13 PM Jul 8, 2017
Thank you Iza. Your advice is much appreciated.
Jewel
oldtrack123 said
10:50 PM Jul 8, 2017
Jewel wrote:
Thanks oldtrack, I will keep that info in mind.
I went back to the Engel website and it doesn't say anything about WATTS. ???
You should find it on the fridge plate
Depending on fridge model between 36 & 48W from memory
Jewel said
02:29 PM Jul 10, 2017
Thanks Oldtrack but I haven't bought the fridge yet. Looking out for a sale.
swamp said
09:14 PM Jul 11, 2017
hi jewel There are many reviews on the net about fridge amp consumption Smaller engels draw cool 30--60 ah hot per 24hr period heavy use ...opening often ,,,in the sun or hot car ,,,freezer operation
at least one 120 amp agm or better yet a lithium 50% allowable usage out of an AGM battery 120ah =60ah available Amp replacement 240 volt 25amp charger ok on a 1kv gene solar 160w absolute min 200watter ideal ah production in a 24hr period AVERAGE 160w 38ah 200w 48ah
Peak sun hours = 100% sun/ solar intensity [peak sun hours in winter4.5 hrs summer 6.5hrs ] average 5.5hrs
200watts per 100-120ah batt gives good recharge performance
Having xtra solar gives some buffer for overcast days also
-- Edited by swamp on Tuesday 11th of July 2017 09:14:55 PM
-- Edited by swamp on Tuesday 11th of July 2017 09:17:08 PM
Jewel said
09:24 PM Jul 12, 2017
Thanks Swamp, your advice is much appreciated.
Cheers,
Jewel
macka17 said
04:32 PM Aug 4, 2017
Jewel.
Not (chuckle) wanting to start a Holden\ford, debate.
But. as proven over decades.
The Danfoss Compressor fridge\freezers. (Waeco.Vitrif etc)
Are much more fuel efficient than the Engel Swing Motors.
As much as their owners like to say to the contrary.
I'd be looking at a Compressor over a Swing Motor, Specially if wanting to spend more time off track.
ALSO.
Most with sense, Also carry a small generator. (Ask any motorhome owner)
Then when sun minimal you have genny with a min,, 20a AC Charger
Mine is 40a 4 way floater. (10a 7 way in van.)
I carry a 3.8kva. but run Air cond. Microwave. oven, elect heater, etc.
If not wanting aircond etc.
a 1\2 to 1 kva will run most things.
Buying most electrics "Inverter" driven makes it easier too.
Read some 4wd. Camping. Marine forums relating to fridges first.
Nice little single Malt or two. feet up.
and peruse........Even the net forums. "Whirlpool" is a good stater.
Cruising Cruze said
08:45 PM Aug 4, 2017
Hi Jewel
We use an fridge/freezer ( Evakool )75 ltr model with 2 lids what sits in the back of the ute We bought it from Australian Direct at the Sunshine coast When she runs it will use 2.6 ah An average of around 35 ah a day The solar panel that feed the two 120ah batteries is 200 watt we never had any problems with not enough power
hi got the same engel.:} to make room i got a lightweight tradies style trailer. 2x200 panels on it, 180amp lithium battery, 1500 watt inverter.
leaves heaps of room in van and can store reclining chairs, fishing stuff etc in lockable trailer.
the battery/inverter lets me run jug toaster induction cooktop microwave laptop phones lights and shower pump.
i use engel as freezer and freeze coke bottles which i put in evakool esky which is my fridge, only open engel every 3 days and swap bottles, get food out.
i can cook in total fire bans which are more frequent.
I used to use 1 Engle ECLIPSE 38 Litre Chest Fridge / Freezer running as a freezer and a foamy "chilly bin" to keep things cool ie salad. (hot climate). I would freeze random plastic bottles of Golden Circle Apple Cordial mix / Milk / meat packs and use them as freezer blocks in the esky. I scored a ECLIPSE 38 Litre Chest Fridge / Freezer for 600 bucks so now I have two; One for freezing and one for cool.
They pull 2.6 Amps when running and zilch when not. The Duty Cycle (ratio between running and quiesent) will vary mostly due to ambient temperate and how cold you have the fridge set to.
DONT run them off your starter batteries. They will get flattened right when you dont expect it. They are not designed for deep cycle operation. It will murder the regular Automotive battery / s in no time. Even Deep Cycle AGM batteries dont last too good if you run them down much past 50 percent constantly.
Only other observation is, depending one your mission, you can get away with no fridge whatsover and it saves a lot of mucking around but it depends on how fussy you are as to your menu. I am a savage and can live on dahl curry rice biltong fresh reptiles damper with rasins and road kill. Canned food is a damn nuisance. Folks are too wary of meat that is off. In winter you can keep Lachshinken for weeks, beef for many days and the mould is fine. Steaks are more tender when green and perfectly OK to eat. Vegetable dont have to be snap fresh going into a stew. Yogurt will last for months at room temperature provided the seal is not broken. 90 Million Vietnameese cant be wrong.
Hi all, I am slowly outfitting my IMAX van as a camper home.
After much research I have decided to purchase an Engel MT45FC-P 40lt fridge/freezer combi.
The stats say the DC power consumption is... Variable from 0.5 to 2.7 AMPS Maximum.
At the moment I can't put solar panels on the roof as I am waiting for a euro pop top to be imported from Germany.
My question is,
Will I be able to use a portable or suitcase type of solar charger to keep the fridge going when I am free camping?
What battery would I need to connect the solar to?
Hope my questions are not too simplistic, but unfortunately my mind is.
Cheers,
Jewel
Hi Jewel
No quick easy answer
& do not be fooled by the Specs for the fridge
It will actually draw the MAX current when ever it is actually running
Many factors involved include:
[a]Ambient temp surrounding the fridge
fridge thermostat setting[how cold you run it ]
[c]warm loading
but for fridge use [not freezer] you can expect around min of 48Ahrs per 24hrs
To maintain that you would need ,at the very least ,a 140W panel ., but that would not have capacity to spare to replace power used from the battery when little solar power input, so a larger panel is required
What size Auxillary battery do you have ??
Iza
My 50, then 80ltrs. kept in rear of Patrol then D-Max.
run off one 80w panel if mobile. On roof of vehicle.
Bit have cable that I can couple up to van supply\panels if req,d.
6 to 7 a when started. run between 2 to 2.5a When up and running. Full.
1\2 empty uses a lot more.
Get fr up and stabilised with engine running.
Solar with decent battery will run it o.night comfortably then.
ALSO.
I went to Industrial Insulation suppliers.
Bought 1 and a half mtrs of 17mm Hard Duct lagging. Silver backed.
Cut and fitted round fridge incl a fold back top for it.(80ltr unit)
Fridge formed condensation on it's lid in rear of Patrol it was that efficient.
Really does make fridges work\hold cold better.
Extra Insulation is the secret to best efficiency with those things in vehicles.
Try it.
Thanks for the reply oldtrack123.
I'm starting from scratch... don't have an auxiliary battery yet.
Hi Iza, thanks for your reply.
The specs for the fridge came from the Engel website.?? As for the size of the starter battery in the IMAX, I'm afraid I wouldn't have a clue. I would be too scared to run it off my starter battery in the daytime, would' know how to deal with a flat battery.
Thanks Macka, am wanting to be able to stay at a nice spot when I find them so am wanting a system that will keep me independent for a week or two... or three.
The extra insulation makes a lot of sense.
Cheers,
Jewel
PS Please keep the replies coming. I appreciate everyone's opinions.
Hi Jewel
Sadly many fridge makers play around with current ratings to make their fridge look good BUT do not tell you what they are based on
The only rating that really counts is the WATTS rating
Divide that by 12 & you get the current the fridge draws while running flat out.
The actual total Ahrs per day will then depend on conditions of use such as I outlined in previous post
Thanks oldtrack, I will keep that info in mind.
I went back to the Engel website and it doesn't say anything about WATTS. ???
No, the Engel site does not list Watts and the 0.5 to 2.5 Amps is misleading. The 2.5 Amps makes sense if the compressor runs continuously for an hour. You can confidently know that the fridge has used 2.5 Amp Hours for that continuous compressor run time. The 0.5 makes sense if the compressor ran for 20% of the hour (12 minutes) while drawing 2.5 Amps (current). Real time use of energy by a compressor fridge is determined by Duty Cycle as the time running and the time when the compressor is not running. In 40 degree weather, my 40 litre runs for up to 80% of the hour, in cold weather, as low as that 20%. Of the hour. The energy draw across time can be measured, but difficult because you need some sort of logger, but experienced owners work on 12 AH per 12 hours in about 20 Degree ambient. That's the figure I suggested earlier. If you had a 80 -100 panel in good sun on the vehicle start battery all day, the start battery should be plenty capable of powering the fridge overnight and still start the vehicle in the morning. That is the experience of many, many Engel owners I know.
Iza
Thank you Iza. Your advice is much appreciated.
Jewel
You should find it on the fridge plate
Depending on fridge model between 36 & 48W from memory
Thanks Oldtrack but I haven't bought the fridge yet. Looking out for a sale.
hi jewel
There are many reviews on the net about fridge amp consumption
Smaller engels draw cool 30--60 ah hot per 24hr period
heavy use ...opening often ,,,in the sun or hot car ,,,freezer operation
at least one 120 amp agm or better yet a lithium
50% allowable usage out of an AGM battery 120ah =60ah available
Amp replacement
240 volt 25amp charger ok on a 1kv gene
solar 160w absolute min 200watter ideal
ah production in a 24hr period AVERAGE
160w 38ah
200w 48ah
Peak sun hours = 100% sun/ solar intensity
[peak sun hours in winter4.5 hrs summer 6.5hrs ] average 5.5hrs
200watts per 100-120ah batt gives good recharge performance
Having xtra solar gives some buffer for overcast days also
-- Edited by swamp on Tuesday 11th of July 2017 09:14:55 PM
-- Edited by swamp on Tuesday 11th of July 2017 09:17:08 PM
Thanks Swamp, your advice is much appreciated.
Cheers,
Jewel
Not (chuckle) wanting to start a Holden\ford, debate.
But. as proven over decades.
The Danfoss Compressor fridge\freezers. (Waeco.Vitrif etc)
Are much more fuel efficient than the Engel Swing Motors.
As much as their owners like to say to the contrary.
I'd be looking at a Compressor over a Swing Motor, Specially if wanting to spend more time off track.
ALSO.
Most with sense, Also carry a small generator. (Ask any motorhome owner)
Then when sun minimal you have genny with a min,, 20a AC Charger
Mine is 40a 4 way floater. (10a 7 way in van.)
I carry a 3.8kva. but run Air cond. Microwave. oven, elect heater, etc.
If not wanting aircond etc.
a 1\2 to 1 kva will run most things.
Buying most electrics "Inverter" driven makes it easier too.
Read some 4wd. Camping. Marine forums relating to fridges first.
Nice little single Malt or two. feet up.
and peruse........Even the net forums. "Whirlpool" is a good stater.
Hi Jewel
We use an fridge/freezer ( Evakool )75 ltr model with 2 lids what sits in the back of the ute
We bought it from Australian Direct at the Sunshine coast
When she runs it will use 2.6 ah
An average of around 35 ah a day
The solar panel that feed the two 120ah batteries is 200 watt
we never had any problems with not enough power
Regards John
leaves heaps of room in van and can store reclining chairs, fishing stuff etc in lockable trailer.
the battery/inverter lets me run jug toaster induction cooktop microwave laptop phones lights and shower pump.
i use engel as freezer and freeze coke bottles which i put in evakool esky which is my fridge, only open engel every 3 days and swap bottles, get food out.
i can cook in total fire bans which are more frequent.
Hi Jewel Have you got it sorted out yet ?
I haven't much to add really.
I used to use 1 Engle ECLIPSE 38 Litre Chest Fridge / Freezer running as a freezer and a foamy "chilly bin" to keep things cool ie salad. (hot climate). I would freeze random plastic bottles of Golden Circle Apple Cordial mix / Milk / meat packs and use them as freezer blocks in the esky. I scored a ECLIPSE 38 Litre Chest Fridge / Freezer for 600 bucks so now I have two; One for freezing and one for cool.
They pull 2.6 Amps when running and zilch when not. The Duty Cycle (ratio between running and quiesent) will vary mostly due to ambient temperate and how cold you have the fridge set to.
DONT run them off your starter batteries. They will get flattened right when you dont expect it. They are not designed for deep cycle operation. It will murder the regular Automotive battery / s in no time. Even Deep Cycle AGM batteries dont last too good if you run them down much past 50 percent constantly.
Only other observation is, depending one your mission, you can get away with no fridge whatsover and it saves a lot of mucking around but it depends on how fussy you are as to your menu. I am a savage and can live on dahl curry rice biltong fresh reptiles damper with rasins and road kill. Canned food is a damn nuisance. Folks are too wary of meat that is off. In winter you can keep Lachshinken for weeks, beef for many days and the mould is fine. Steaks are more tender when green and perfectly OK to eat. Vegetable dont have to be snap fresh going into a stew. Yogurt will last for months at room temperature provided the seal is not broken. 90 Million Vietnameese cant be wrong.
Hope this Helps
Muzz.