The company named and covered by this story certainly appears to be a major rip off organisation, but as we have recently discovered that another retirement village in outer western Sydney have indicated that their soon to be released 3 bedroom villa's will cost around $712000, with a one third loss of capital over the first eight years and no capital gain at the time the villa is finally sold, they also have a monthly recurrent fee of $540.00 which in my figuring is over 10 years anorher $54000.
We will not be proceeding any further with our enquiries as I believe our potential loss would be in excess of a quarter of a million dollars.
The NSW Government has as a result of the 4 corners report has now said they are going to do something about this massive rip off of senior citizens, but they have been sitting on a report on a previous enquiry conducted in 2007.
I suspect we will now have another enquiry that will take a year or two, I guess it may be a good time to consider being full time on the road, or maybe downsize to a nice villa.
brickies said
06:19 PM Jun 28, 2017
They aiming at the top end of the market out out our budget , I have look into many of these retirement Villages most have the same exit fees , The only safe ones are the ones where you have title of home and land , Which has a body corp and if you want to sell you can sell it on the open market and get 100% of the sale price , Old saying buyer beware and a good Lawyer who will read the whole contract .
RustyD said
06:46 PM Jun 28, 2017
The answer to the 4 Corners report is interesting. There is always 2 sides to every story. It's a little bit of the old press saying "Why let the facts get in the way of a good story". The bit about a certain percentage turnover was a not a target by the company but was talking about past performance in the company's prospectus. Taken out of context.
Goldfinger said
08:14 PM Jun 28, 2017
You cannot defend the patently indefencable perpetrated on the aged/defenceless........this rorting has been perpetuated since the mid 1990's.....similar contracts in Aged care Homes designed by and for the owners/operators....Solicitors have known about this for the same period.....the 'only' protection given is that Legislation required that it be Registered on Title that the facility was an Aged Care/Retirement Home.....otherwise many would have been purchased by Developer Sharks long ago for ""Development"" similar to disappearing Caravan Parks in ideal locations...
I am ashamed to say as a Real Estate of S.A. 'Certified Business Broker' in S.A. I was involved in ""Selling/Promoting"" Units/Rooms in a couple of similar Establishments in the late 1990's..I quickly ascertained the contracts are a clever ruse to remove money from defenceless folk in the shortest possible time..move/churn them to a 'higher level of care' or whatever...always for their own good...NOT!.....and invariably the Establishment would purchase the same unit/room at a massive pre-determined discount....I never saw one Unit actually appreciate in value when Real Estate in the outside 'real world' was appreciating....churning was the game, massive profits were/are the object...why aren't the 'Security Deposits/Licence to Occupy Fees held in an audited Trust Account' like Accredited Real Estate Agents must do....the funds went into the Establishments ""General Revenue"" or Trustee Company's for Family Trusts...and then anywhere they pleased...myriad of Companies...
It's interesting that the 'value' of these Licence to Occupy's seem to be determined by the values being obtained by Potential Occupiers when they sell their homes locally....they seem to bear no relation to any Real Estate Value as you hold no title as an occupier...in other words the prices are the maximum that can be 'gouged' from the occupier...less in S.A....more in Vic and NSW..for example... and ever increasing....except when they 'buy' them back...
Before I quickly told the Establishments I wanted nothing more to do with them or their Licences to Occupy ,I had been insisting that an Independent Solicitor had to peruse/advise the true purport of these ""Contracts/Licences to Occupy".......I was equally astonished when many Solicitors, many being long term friends/business acquantances of the applicants or their relatives.. actually allowed their clients to proceed, having perused them...
The Commission findings in 2007 should have been implemented as a matter of urgency....10 years later, more tut tutting...the Political power wielded by these now huge Corporation Ownerships.....more and more Establishments being taken over and re-invented by the ever growing powerful few will no doubt see more lengthy""Investigations/Enquiries followed by more recommendations...followed by....
It's Australia today.....the basic Aussie was a loyal trusting battler, not used to these sharp practice ""merchants""...who know no bounds of exploitation....and it will get worse rather than better as more lip service only, is waffled by Politicians who are also Solicitors...and would be well versed in the mechanisms in place for at least 20 years.......Hoo Roo
-- Edited by Goldfinger on Wednesday 28th of June 2017 08:24:14 PM
-- Edited by Goldfinger on Wednesday 28th of June 2017 08:29:05 PM
-- Edited by Goldfinger on Wednesday 28th of June 2017 08:40:48 PM
madaboutled said
08:47 PM Jun 28, 2017
It should be noted the story was on Retirement Villages owned & run by one company and that "Lifestyle" villages are totally different. We have a house in a Lifestyle village, we own the house but lease the land. In NSW, the land on which Lifestyle Villages occupy cannot be rezoned therefore protecting the residents somewhat.
If we decide to sell our home, 100% of the sale proceeds are ours, no exit or other fees are involved. We can sell the home ourselves, engage an agent or allow the village management to sell the home on our behalf for a fixed fee that's deducted from the sale.
I just wanted to make the above known because there are vast differences between diferent village types.
ShortNorth said
09:29 PM Jun 28, 2017
Many years ago my late father bought into a 'retirement village' on the Gold Coast. The basis was you bought a relocatable home from the developer, which you fully owned, and paid a rental fee for the land it sat on. There was also 'body corporate style' fees for 'site management and facilities', and you could only buy your electricity and water from the 'village' management (at inflated prices).
After living there for a couple of years he found it was run like a 'concentration camp' and wanted out - they told him, you are free to remove your relocatable home - it has been designed to be split in two and moved on two semi-trailers.
However, the catch was, they deliberately designed the internal roads so that a semi-trailer could NOT FIT down any road. So the only alternative was for the owner to find a new buyer who wanted to move in to the village and buy your specific relocatable. It took dad just over two years before he was able to find a buyer, so he could move out. He spent his last days in his self-owned half of a stand-alone duplex villa on a duplex block on a normal street frontage, with an amicable neighbour.
Cupie said
10:15 PM Jun 28, 2017
madaboutled wrote:
It should be noted the story was on Retirement Villages owned & run by one company and that "Lifestyle" villages are totally different. We have a house in a Lifestyle village, we own the house but lease the land. In NSW, the land on which Lifestyle Villages occupy cannot be rezoned therefore protecting the residents somewhat.
If we decide to sell our home, 100% of the sale proceeds are ours, no exit or other fees are involved. We can sell the home ourselves, engage an agent or allow the village management to sell the home on our behalf for a fixed fee that's deducted from the sale.
I just wanted to make the above known because there are vast differences between different village types.
I have a friend in a similar situation on the Qld Gold Coast.
It looks like a good option.
My Mother spent her last years in an aged care unit the we 'purchased'. Got almost all of the purchase price on its sale a few years later when she had to move to a full care nursing unit in the same complex.
Bagmaker said
02:31 PM Jun 29, 2017
So Steve, what happens if the lease doesn't get paid for whatever reason?
Wizardofoz said
03:16 PM Jun 29, 2017
That's a good question Bagmaker, however, I would imagine the same would apply in a 'freehold' property should You not pay the 'council rates', although I would rather be the owner facing a council for unpaid rates than an owner of a 'village/retirement' establishment facing the same situation as I know which one would move more swiftly to recover their debt.
-- Edited by Wizardofoz on Thursday 29th of June 2017 03:22:04 PM
madaboutled said
07:57 PM Jun 29, 2017
Bagmaker wrote:
So Steve, what happens if the lease doesn't get paid for whatever reason?
When we first bought the house we put the account 4 months ahead. In our case we're now about 12 months ahead as we always pay extra each month., so if there was some whatever reason it didn't get paid we have ample time to sort things out. Additionally, the payments are made automaticly from our bank account.
We decided to do it this way in case something happens to both of us, the house is left to our 2 boys and they'll have 12 months up their sleave to sell it and split the money from the sale between them. We keep them in the loop as to its value.
Aus-Kiwi said
08:22 PM Jun 29, 2017
Just shows .. it doesn't pay to have other people or business in control of your assets !! So many get ripped off in so many types of financial thi gas out there it's not funny !! I would rather live in granny flat and assist my children . Yes I know things can go wrong there too !! Sheesh !!
PeterD said
10:19 PM Jun 29, 2017
madaboutled wrote:
It should be noted the story was on Retirement Villages owned & run by one company and that "Lifestyle" villages are totally different. We have a house in a Lifestyle village, we own the house but lease the land. In NSW, the land on which Lifestyle Villages occupy cannot be rezoned therefore protecting the residents somewhat.
The term "Lifestyle Village" covers several types of village. Your type of village is usually referred to as a "Manufactured Home village. It is governed by the legislation Residential (Land Lease) Communities Act 2013. I am also in one of these villages, I was part or the communities input in the review that resulted in the current legislation as well as the previous review. You can read more about this in this link. The legislation is in relatively plain language and the standard site agreements are also in plain language, not like the agreements mentioned in the 4 Corners programme.
my van said
10:04 AM Jun 30, 2017
It apears that retiring is not a good way to go.to be safe we might need to keep our homes and keep working .
I can not get into my high set house now as I use a power wheel chair or scooter so I live under it . Where will I go when I need to sell ?
Aus-Kiwi said
02:02 PM Jun 30, 2017
Rob a bank . You'll get fed three times a day and all the meds you need . Oh and roof over your head . Other than that ? Sell and cruise the ocian . I guess thses things need sorting before you get too fragile ?? Nice granny flat on property with grandkids etc ??
Hydeeeho said
04:02 PM Jun 30, 2017
Just my 2 bob's worth, that story on 4 Corners had exactly nothing to do with over 55's Village which is a completely different style of living, we have a house in a over 55's Village on the Gold Coast we own the house and pay a weekly amount to run the village and if we sell we get what anyone else gets minus the real estate agents commission, no fees to the Park Owner.
Goodness knows where you got the idea it was about over 55's villages as this was never mentioned in the program, but AVEO RETIREMENT was mentioned, so don't get confused and know your facts
aussietraveller said
04:47 PM Jun 30, 2017
Hydeeeho
yes David i did make a mistake in the title calling it a over 55's village, but I somehow managed to get it right in the body of my post, and it seems the majority got the gist of what I was saying.
You are most definitely right the term over 55's was not mentioned in the story on 4 corners I guess even though I knew the facts I still used an incorrect term in the title.
You cannot defend the patently indefencable perpetrated on the aged/defenceless........this rorting has been perpetuated since the mid 1990's.....similar contracts in Aged care Homes designed by and for the owners/operators....Solicitors have known about this for the same period.....the 'only' protection given is that Legislation required that it be Registered on Title that the facility was an Aged Care/Retirement Home.....otherwise many would have been purchased by Developer Sharks long ago for ""Development"" similar to disappearing Caravan Parks in ideal locations...
I am ashamed to say as a Real Estate of S.A. 'Certified Business Broker' in S.A. I was involved in ""Selling/Promoting"" Units/Rooms in a couple of similar Establishments in the late 1990's..I quickly ascertained the contracts are a clever ruse to remove money from defenceless folk in the shortest possible time..move/churn them to a 'higher level of care' or whatever...always for their own good...NOT!.....and invariably the Establishment would purchase the same unit/room at a massive pre-determined discount....I never saw one Unit actually appreciate in value when Real Estate in the outside 'real world' was appreciating....churning was the game, massive profits were/are the object...why aren't the 'Security Deposits/Licence to Occupy Fees held in an audited Trust Account' like Accredited Real Estate Agents must do....the funds went into the Establishments ""General Revenue"" or Trustee Company's for Family Trusts...and then anywhere they pleased...myriad of Companies...
It's interesting that the 'value' of these Licence to Occupy's seem to be determined by the values being obtained by Potential Occupiers when they sell their homes locally....they seem to bear no relation to any Real Estate Value as you hold no title as an occupier...in other words the prices are the maximum that can be 'gouged' from the occupier...less in S.A....more in Vic and NSW..for example... and ever increasing....except when they 'buy' them back...
Before I quickly told the Establishments I wanted nothing more to do with them or their Licences to Occupy ,I had been insisting that an Independent Solicitor had to peruse/advise the true purport of these ""Contracts/Licences to Occupy".......I was equally astonished when many Solicitors, many being long term friends/business acquantances of the applicants or their relatives.. actually allowed their clients to proceed, having perused them...
The Commission findings in 2007 should have been implemented as a matter of urgency....10 years later, more tut tutting...the Political power wielded by these now huge Corporation Ownerships.....more and more Establishments being taken over and re-invented by the ever growing powerful few will no doubt see more lengthy""Investigations/Enquiries followed by more recommendations...followed by....
It's Australia today.....the basic Aussie was a loyal trusting battler, not used to these sharp practice ""merchants""...who know no bounds of exploitation....and it will get worse rather than better as more lip service only, is waffled by Politicians who are also Solicitors...and would be well versed in the mechanisms in place for at least 20 years.......Hoo Roo
-- Edited by Goldfinger on Wednesday 28th of June 2017 08:24:14 PM
-- Edited by Goldfinger on Wednesday 28th of June 2017 08:29:05 PM
-- Edited by Goldfinger on Wednesday 28th of June 2017 08:40:48 PM
It should be noted the story was on Retirement Villages owned & run by one company and that "Lifestyle" villages are totally different. We have a house in a Lifestyle village, we own the house but lease the land. In NSW, the land on which Lifestyle Villages occupy cannot be rezoned therefore protecting the residents somewhat.
If we decide to sell our home, 100% of the sale proceeds are ours, no exit or other fees are involved. We can sell the home ourselves, engage an agent or allow the village management to sell the home on our behalf for a fixed fee that's deducted from the sale.
I just wanted to make the above known because there are vast differences between diferent village types.
Many years ago my late father bought into a 'retirement village' on the Gold Coast. The basis was you bought a relocatable home from the developer, which you fully owned, and paid a rental fee for the land it sat on. There was also 'body corporate style' fees for 'site management and facilities', and you could only buy your electricity and water from the 'village' management (at inflated prices).
After living there for a couple of years he found it was run like a 'concentration camp' and wanted out - they told him, you are free to remove your relocatable home - it has been designed to be split in two and moved on two semi-trailers.
However, the catch was, they deliberately designed the internal roads so that a semi-trailer could NOT FIT down any road. So the only alternative was for the owner to find a new buyer who wanted to move in to the village and buy your specific relocatable. It took dad just over two years before he was able to find a buyer, so he could move out. He spent his last days in his self-owned half of a stand-alone duplex villa on a duplex block on a normal street frontage, with an amicable neighbour.
I have a friend in a similar situation on the Qld Gold Coast.
It looks like a good option.
My Mother spent her last years in an aged care unit the we 'purchased'. Got almost all of the purchase price on its sale a few years later when she had to move to a full care nursing unit in the same complex.
That's a good question Bagmaker, however, I would imagine the same would apply in a 'freehold' property should You not pay the 'council rates', although I would rather be the owner facing a council for unpaid rates than an owner of a 'village/retirement' establishment facing the same situation as I know which one would move more swiftly to recover their debt.
-- Edited by Wizardofoz on Thursday 29th of June 2017 03:22:04 PM
When we first bought the house we put the account 4 months ahead. In our case we're now about 12 months ahead as we always pay extra each month., so if there was some whatever reason it didn't get paid we have ample time to sort things out. Additionally, the payments are made automaticly from our bank account.
We decided to do it this way in case something happens to both of us, the house is left to our 2 boys and they'll have 12 months up their sleave to sell it and split the money from the sale between them. We keep them in the loop as to its value.
The term "Lifestyle Village" covers several types of village. Your type of village is usually referred to as a "Manufactured Home village. It is governed by the legislation Residential (Land Lease) Communities Act 2013. I am also in one of these villages, I was part or the communities input in the review that resulted in the current legislation as well as the previous review. You can read more about this in this link. The legislation is in relatively plain language and the standard site agreements are also in plain language, not like the agreements mentioned in the 4 Corners programme.
I can not get into my high set house now as I use a power wheel chair or scooter so I live under it . Where will I go when I need to sell ?
Just my 2 bob's worth, that story on 4 Corners had exactly nothing to do with over 55's Village which is a completely different style of living, we have a house in a over 55's Village on the Gold Coast we own the house and pay a weekly amount to run the village and if we sell we get what anyone else gets minus the real estate agents commission, no fees to the Park Owner.
Goodness knows where you got the idea it was about over 55's villages as this was never mentioned in the program, but AVEO RETIREMENT was mentioned, so don't get confused and know your facts
yes David i did make a mistake in the title calling it a over 55's village, but I somehow managed to get it right in the body of my post, and it seems the majority got the gist of what I was saying.
You are most definitely right the term over 55's was not mentioned in the story on 4 corners I guess even though I knew the facts I still used an incorrect term in the title.