Could someone please tell me if I have this right...
As far as I can tell from the info on my vans trailer (pic attached, a bit hard to read though) the GTM is 1134kg and the TARE is 970kg.
So, I can only pack 164kg of stuff into the van?
I have 90litre water tank (which I need to be full) plus 2 bottles of gas (and they are about 15kg each) - so that only leaves me with about 44kg spare for dog food, my food, clothes, bedding, cooking utensils etc??
Is that right?
Thanks!
-- Edited by NannyJam on Thursday 23rd of March 2017 02:09:42 AM
I think it could be a bit of a worry at times . Don't Forget . Your Stamped "tare weight" is . No gas bottles.
Just bare of everything . Then , we start adding "Stuff".
We Read it So often on this forum . THE Importance of weighing the van ourselves.
Find out where your local or nearest weighbridge is & for peace of mind . Weigh it & your tug & Ball weight.
Will cost around $20 and you will have it written down , for yourself.
Rather than looking at a stamp on a bit of metal.
TheHeaths said
07:16 AM Mar 23, 2017
Sue,
the first figure on the VIN plate should be the ATM of the van.
Your load allowance is the ATM minus the Tare.
The load allowance should be 300 kg or above, and yes, once you start to load water and gas, that reduces very quickly.
Stl said
09:07 AM Mar 23, 2017
Hi Nanny Jam, yes you are right. A bit off the track but, I have a mate who bought a camper trailer, ordered it then bought a tug, but when put over weigh bridge was a lot heavier than compliance plate. (the tare was heavier than the ATM) Too heavy for his tug, their easy fix I'm led to believe was they would re stamp compliance plate.??? No good for him as too heavy for his tug.. Can't mention names or make as he as engaged a solicitor. Will keep informed as to outcome. It is definitely a David and Goliath case as this is an Australian wide distribution ship he is fighting.
My van with 2 full gas bottles and a 120 deep cycle battery and only the caravan jack in front boot, and full water tanks was to heavy on tow ball weight, ( nearly 20%) (the wheels on my van are a long way back, no where near the middle) well under on ATM though. Went to weigh bridge a couple of times moved things around, have about 12% on tow ball now with all our "stuff" in which is now well under and tows like a dream.
As Fringe dweller says weigh your van, if not to check on compliance plate but for peace of mind, and yes you might have to put more in your tug to be legal and covered by insurance.
As for tow ball weight if you think it might be a problem instead of rushing off to the weigh bridge first up just use a set of cheap bath room scales using the 3 to 1 principle. (google it find out how) rule of thumb min 10% on the tow ball.
Peter_n_Margaret said
10:36 AM Mar 23, 2017
"Not fit for purpose". Get your money back.
Cheers,
Peter
Bryan said
10:51 AM Mar 23, 2017
Sorry, I can't read the pic.
The van's ATM is the GTM + tow ball weight. ATM - Tare gives you your load capacity.
NannyJam said
11:44 AM Mar 23, 2017
Well gosh!
Looks like I will have to reduce my vans water tank to just a minimum of say 20litres and, as Stl said, load up my car with water containers!
ATM: 1270
GTM: 1134
Tare: 970
Axle Load Capacity: 1450
300kg doesn't go very far!
Thanks for the replies!
Peter_n_Margaret said
01:53 PM Mar 23, 2017
And do not assume that the tare on the compliance plate is accurate either. Most are not.
You need to put the van on a weighbridge, otherwise everything is a guess.
It may be possible to increase the ATM to the axle rating (if the tyres are adequate). That would help a lot.
Cheers,
Peter
NannyJam said
03:01 PM Mar 23, 2017
Peter_n_Margaret wrote:
And do not assume that the tare on the compliance plate is accurate either. Most are not. You need to put the van on a weighbridge, otherwise everything is a guess.
It may be possible to increase the ATM to the axle rating (if the tyres are adequate). That would help a lot.
Cheers, Peter
Thanks Peter,
Yes, I have a weighbridge close by so I will definitely weigh the van - after I take out the microwave too! That's a good storage space going to waste! haha!
Cutting my vans tank water down (a lot) and loading extra water in my car helps (it gives me roughly an extra 40-50kg for 'stuff' in the van.
When you say 'may be possible to increase the ATM to the axle rating'... I have no idea how to physically do that. Ohhh ok, just Oogled! Hmmm... I'm not exactly 'tech savvy' but that's something to consider, thanks!
PeterInSa said
03:51 PM Mar 23, 2017
Agree (may be possible to increase the ATM to the axle rating'..) Would talk to an Engineer in your state to get written approval/writeoff . He may even go further and add 10% ( ie towball weight) of the GTM Gross Trailer Mass( ie weight on the wheels)to the ATM/Axle Load capacity, depending on the capacity of your chassis/ tyres/bearings /springs etc.
Note all Engineers are not created equal, some will say its to hard/costly some, it cannot be done and a few will just get on with the job.
Peter
The Belmont Bear said
04:11 PM Mar 23, 2017
Hi NannyJam, if you are saying that you really need to carry the 90ltrs of water and you have some extra load capacity in your vehicle why don't you fill your water tank and transfer some of the other things to the car instead. I imagine it would be easier to physically handle items e.g. dog food, dry goods, spare bed linen, some clothing, maybe the spare tyre, tools, jack etc. than constantly canting and decanting your water into containers. - just a thought. I have 2 x 95ltr tanks and I travel with them empty unless I know I am going to be somewhere without a fresh water supply.
Cheers BB
Baz421 said
09:01 PM Mar 23, 2017
The Belmont Bear wrote:
Hi NannyJam, if you are saying that you really need to carry the 90ltrs of water and you have some extra load capacity in your vehicle why don't you fill your water tank and transfer some of the other things to the car instead. I imagine it would be easier to physically handle items e.g. dog food, dry goods, spare bed linen, some clothing, maybe the spare tyre, tools, jack etc. than constantly canting and decanting your water into containers. - just a thought. I have 2 x 95ltr tanks and I travel with them empty unless I know I am going to be somewhere without a fresh water supply.
Cheers BB
very good idea IMHO
Cruising Cruze said
09:44 PM Mar 23, 2017
It makes you wander sometimes with the compliance plate if they are right
But 300 kg seems to be normal for single axle van
cultana said
10:13 PM Mar 23, 2017
NannyJam wrote:
Well gosh!
Looks like I will have to reduce my vans water tank to just a minimum of say 20litres and, as Stl said, load up my car with water containers!
ATM: 1270
GTM: 1134
Tare: 970
Axle Load Capacity: 1450
300kg doesn't go very far!
Thanks for the replies!
First I have no idea where you get the ATM value shown above from.
Your van has the following specs weight wise:
ATM/GTM = 1130 kg --- Note ATM and GTM are the same
Tare = 970 kg
Axel/Axel Gp Load Capaity = 1450 kg
Your allowed load this is 164 kg
The TARE may also include the empty gas bottles if they cam with the original purchase.
If the water tank was after market, its empty weight is also part of your load.
You may be able to get an update to your GTM/ATM provides the chassis also can take the upgrade load. This is best looked at via Jayco the makers of the van.
Any upgrade will need an engineer's report.
As Peter said above "Not fit for purpose"
TheHeaths said
11:36 PM Mar 23, 2017
Nick,
ATM and GTM are not the same thing. One is the total allowable loaded weight of the van including weight on the tow ball(ATM), and one is the weight on the wheels when at total allowable load (GTM), so it is ATM excluding the load on the ball, and thus cannot be the same. Sometimes ATM is referred to as GVM (the same thign but applying to vehicles rather than trailers), and that can be confusing .
I would suggest the panel at the extreme left of the picture is the ATM one, and that is probably where NannyJam got the figure from.
MOLLUSCAN said
04:16 AM Mar 24, 2017
Just a comment about using a weigh station, Before we leave on a trip we go to the local tip (sorry now called the Resource Recovery Park), and they will weigh our setup for free as long as we don't want a printed sheet. As it's only for our peace of mind we are happy with this arrangement.
macka17 said
09:18 AM Mar 25, 2017
Hi.
MOST local dumps have weighbridge. and will scribble weights on piece of paper for you.
I do at start of every trip. ONE road out of town, goes past dump.
ALso. we always travel a to b with empty water tanks (270 plus ltrs) Just a 10 or 20 ltr in car. and fill tanks just b4 getting wherever.
Rear set susp units are WAYYYY more safer than centre set, believe me.
Mostly, vans originally weighed with one gas tank, microwave. kitchen setup. water heating. aircond, main implements fitted first.
With rollout, second tank etc added afterwards
Or used to be anyway.
A lot got caught out with rollout width\weight. second tank etc weights. added to allowed load. same with car loads. fuel racks.towrig bullbar. ALL added afterwards. and have to be taken into account
B4 You. Missus.Fridge etc added..
Lancelot Link said
02:50 AM Mar 27, 2017
I would have thought the most important weight was the tow ball weight! Other than that, the water amounts to 1kg per litre. What else, apart from gross over packing, would be needed to overload a caravan. This is an honest question, not a take the mickey question! I can understand extras add weight, but I have to ask what are you packing the van to exceed 300kg? Just curious.
NannyJam said
04:50 AM Mar 31, 2017
Yes, you are correct TheHeaths - thank you. The ATM & GTM are two separate figures on the compliance plate as you said.
Lancelot Link, I dont actually have 300kg of available 'packing weight' - when you do all the sums, it works out at 164kg. 164kg doesn't go far, especially as I was originally going to fill the 90litre water tank (as you said, that's 90kg). Add 2 gas bottles (total 32kg), an annex & pegs (about 20kg) plus 20kg dog food... not a lot left! lol
-- Edited by NannyJam on Friday 31st of March 2017 04:53:17 AM
-- Edited by NannyJam on Friday 31st of March 2017 04:54:09 AM
TheHeaths said
06:52 AM Mar 31, 2017
Nannyjam,
what ATM is showing on your plate? Is it the 1270 you stated in a post earlier on? Your load allowance is ATM minus the Tare, and for ease of the process at the moment, lets assume that the tare is correctly stated by the company.
If it is, then you can load 300kg in total. So, on that basis, deducting your water, gas, annex and dog food, which totals 172 kg, you are left with 128 kg for the remainder of your goods and chattels. Not a lot, but with careful planning, and use of the cars available load, should allow you to take a reasonable amount of gear. As a bit of a guide, Kathy and I would carry about 180 kg of gear without water and gas, when we had our pop top. That included chairs, table, BBQ, clothes, and all other essential bits and pieces.
All the best and enjoy your travels.
NannyJam said
10:22 AM Mar 31, 2017
TheHeaths (Ian)... ohhhh! Yes, the ATM showing on the plate is 1270 kg. Thank you! I thought it was GTM (1134 kg) minus Tare (970 kg) which gives 164 kg
I obviously haven't understood this info... http://hpp.org.au/towingweight.html (Good job this isn't rocket surgery!!
If it is ATM minus Tare, then that's great! 300kg is plenty!
Thanks everyone for your help!! :)
Bill B said
10:42 AM Mar 31, 2017
NannyJam wrote: If it is ATM minus Tare, then that's great! 300kg is plenty!
As long as the plated tare weight is correct, you have 300 kgs to play with.
NannyJam said
10:56 AM Mar 31, 2017
Awesome! *and a sigh of relief... one can only eat so many maggi noodles! haha!)
-- Edited by NannyJam on Friday 31st of March 2017 10:59:19 AM
TheHeaths said
07:03 PM Mar 31, 2017
Glad to help Sue, and now you will be able to eat, drink and wash (so will the dogs!). What a relief as you say.
Enjoy the travels.
-- Edited by TheHeaths on Friday 31st of March 2017 07:04:08 PM
PeterD said
11:57 PM Mar 31, 2017
NannyJam wrote:
Yes, the ATM showing on the plate is 1270 kg. Thank you! I thought it was GTM (1134 kg) minus Tare (970 kg) which gives 164 kg
If it is ATM minus Tare, then that's great! 300kg is plenty!
"If it is ATM minus Tare, then that's great! 300kg is plenty! " I would not count on that, particularly if you wish to carry the full water capacity. We carry over 450 kg in a single axle van, that includes 80 litres of water and two 4.5 kg gas bottles.
I disagree that load capacity is ATM - tare weight. The tare weight is the weight of the van as it leaves the factory. Often things are added by the agent before delivery, this includes roll out awnings. Sometimes the builder adds things to the van and still labels the van with the tare weight of the bare standard model That increases the unladen weight of the van.
The load capacity thus is the ATM less the unladen weight of the van.
You mentioned above that you may get the van weighed. Do that before you load anything into the van. You then will be able to calculate the true load capacity of the van.
What is the tow vehicle you will be using and what is its towing capacity? You mentioned above - "Axle Load Capacity: 1450." With that axle capacity you could probably easily get an engineering assessment to upgrade the ATM of the van to 1470 kg. This will give you a 500 kg load capacity, you don't have to use all of that but it will give you plenty of piece of mind about being within the confines of the law and the engineering assessment will give you piece of mind regarding the safety of the heavier van. Put "upgrade ATM" into the search function (the link is at the top of the page) and you will see several links on the subject. If you can't fin any come back, tell me and I will look for you.
Could someone please tell me if I have this right...
As far as I can tell from the info on my vans trailer (pic attached, a bit hard to read though) the GTM is 1134kg and the TARE is 970kg.
So, I can only pack 164kg of stuff into the van?
I have 90litre water tank (which I need to be full) plus 2 bottles of gas (and they are about 15kg each) - so that only leaves me with about 44kg spare for dog food, my food, clothes, bedding, cooking utensils etc??
Is that right?
Thanks!
-- Edited by NannyJam on Thursday 23rd of March 2017 02:09:42 AM
I think it could be a bit of a worry at times . Don't Forget . Your Stamped "tare weight" is . No gas bottles.
Just bare of everything . Then , we start adding "Stuff".
We Read it So often on this forum . THE Importance of weighing the van ourselves.
Find out where your local or nearest weighbridge is & for peace of mind . Weigh it & your tug & Ball weight.
Will cost around $20 and you will have it written down , for yourself.
Rather than looking at a stamp on a bit of metal.
the first figure on the VIN plate should be the ATM of the van.
Your load allowance is the ATM minus the Tare.
The load allowance should be 300 kg or above, and yes, once you start to load water and gas, that reduces very quickly.
Hi Nanny Jam, yes you are right. A bit off the track but, I have a mate who bought a camper trailer, ordered it then bought a tug, but when put over weigh bridge was a lot heavier than compliance plate. (the tare was heavier than the ATM) Too heavy for his tug, their easy fix I'm led to believe was they would re stamp compliance plate.??? No good for him as too heavy for his tug.. Can't mention names or make as he as engaged a solicitor. Will keep informed as to outcome. It is definitely a David and Goliath case as this is an Australian wide distribution ship he is fighting.
My van with 2 full gas bottles and a 120 deep cycle battery and only the caravan jack in front boot, and full water tanks was to heavy on tow ball weight, ( nearly 20%) (the wheels on my van are a long way back, no where near the middle) well under on ATM though. Went to weigh bridge a couple of times moved things around, have about 12% on tow ball now with all our "stuff" in which is now well under and tows like a dream.
As Fringe dweller says weigh your van, if not to check on compliance plate but for peace of mind, and yes you might have to put more in your tug to be legal and covered by insurance.
As for tow ball weight if you think it might be a problem instead of rushing off to the weigh bridge first up just use a set of cheap bath room scales using the 3 to 1 principle. (google it find out how) rule of thumb min 10% on the tow ball.
Cheers,
Peter
Sorry, I can't read the pic.
The van's ATM is the GTM + tow ball weight. ATM - Tare gives you your load capacity.
Well gosh!
Looks like I will have to reduce my vans water tank to just a minimum of say 20litres and, as Stl said, load up my car with water containers!
ATM: 1270
GTM: 1134
Tare: 970
Axle Load Capacity: 1450
300kg doesn't go very far!
Thanks for the replies!
You need to put the van on a weighbridge, otherwise everything is a guess.
It may be possible to increase the ATM to the axle rating (if the tyres are adequate). That would help a lot.
Cheers,
Peter
Thanks Peter,
Yes, I have a weighbridge close by so I will definitely weigh the van - after I take out the microwave too! That's a good storage space going to waste! haha!
Cutting my vans tank water down (a lot) and loading extra water in my car helps (it gives me roughly an extra 40-50kg for 'stuff' in the van.
When you say 'may be possible to increase the ATM to the axle rating'... I have no idea how to physically do that. Ohhh ok, just Oogled! Hmmm... I'm not exactly 'tech savvy' but that's something to consider, thanks!
Note all Engineers are not created equal, some will say its to hard/costly some, it cannot be done and a few will just get on with the job.
Peter
Cheers BB
very good idea IMHO
But 300 kg seems to be normal for single axle van
First I have no idea where you get the ATM value shown above from.
Your van has the following specs weight wise:
ATM/GTM = 1130 kg --- Note ATM and GTM are the same
Tare = 970 kg
Axel/Axel Gp Load Capaity = 1450 kg
Your allowed load this is 164 kg
The TARE may also include the empty gas bottles if they cam with the original purchase.
If the water tank was after market, its empty weight is also part of your load.
You may be able to get an update to your GTM/ATM provides the chassis also can take the upgrade load. This is best looked at via Jayco the makers of the van.
Any upgrade will need an engineer's report.
As Peter said above "Not fit for purpose"
ATM and GTM are not the same thing. One is the total allowable loaded weight of the van including weight on the tow ball(ATM), and one is the weight on the wheels when at total allowable load (GTM), so it is ATM excluding the load on the ball, and thus cannot be the same. Sometimes ATM is referred to as GVM (the same thign but applying to vehicles rather than trailers), and that can be confusing .
I would suggest the panel at the extreme left of the picture is the ATM one, and that is probably where NannyJam got the figure from.
MOST local dumps have weighbridge. and will scribble weights on piece of paper for you.
I do at start of every trip. ONE road out of town, goes past dump.
ALso. we always travel a to b with empty water tanks (270 plus ltrs) Just a 10 or 20 ltr in car. and fill tanks just b4 getting wherever.
Rear set susp units are WAYYYY more safer than centre set, believe me.
Mostly, vans originally weighed with one gas tank, microwave. kitchen setup. water heating. aircond, main implements fitted first.
With rollout, second tank etc added afterwards
Or used to be anyway.
A lot got caught out with rollout width\weight. second tank etc weights. added to allowed load. same with car loads. fuel racks.towrig bullbar. ALL added afterwards. and have to be taken into account
B4 You. Missus.Fridge etc added..
Yes, you are correct TheHeaths - thank you. The ATM & GTM are two separate figures on the compliance plate as you said.
Lancelot Link, I dont actually have 300kg of available 'packing weight' - when you do all the sums, it works out at 164kg. 164kg doesn't go far, especially as I was originally going to fill the 90litre water tank (as you said, that's 90kg). Add 2 gas bottles (total 32kg), an annex & pegs (about 20kg) plus 20kg dog food... not a lot left! lol
-- Edited by NannyJam on Friday 31st of March 2017 04:53:17 AM
-- Edited by NannyJam on Friday 31st of March 2017 04:54:09 AM
what ATM is showing on your plate? Is it the 1270 you stated in a post earlier on? Your load allowance is ATM minus the Tare, and for ease of the process at the moment, lets assume that the tare is correctly stated by the company.
If it is, then you can load 300kg in total. So, on that basis, deducting your water, gas, annex and dog food, which totals 172 kg, you are left with 128 kg for the remainder of your goods and chattels. Not a lot, but with careful planning, and use of the cars available load, should allow you to take a reasonable amount of gear. As a bit of a guide, Kathy and I would carry about 180 kg of gear without water and gas, when we had our pop top. That included chairs, table, BBQ, clothes, and all other essential bits and pieces.
All the best and enjoy your travels.
TheHeaths (Ian)... ohhhh! Yes, the ATM showing on the plate is 1270 kg. Thank you! I thought it was GTM (1134 kg) minus Tare (970 kg) which gives 164 kg
I obviously haven't understood this info... http://hpp.org.au/towingweight.html (Good job this isn't rocket surgery!!
If it is ATM minus Tare, then that's great! 300kg is plenty!
Thanks everyone for your help!! :)
As long as the plated tare weight is correct, you have 300 kgs to play with.
Awesome! *and a sigh of relief... one can only eat so many maggi noodles! haha!)
-- Edited by NannyJam on Friday 31st of March 2017 10:59:19 AM
Glad to help Sue, and now you will be able to eat, drink and wash (so will the dogs!). What a relief as you say.
Enjoy the travels.
-- Edited by TheHeaths on Friday 31st of March 2017 07:04:08 PM
"If it is ATM minus Tare, then that's great! 300kg is plenty! " I would not count on that, particularly if you wish to carry the full water capacity. We carry over 450 kg in a single axle van, that includes 80 litres of water and two 4.5 kg gas bottles.
I disagree that load capacity is ATM - tare weight. The tare weight is the weight of the van as it leaves the factory. Often things are added by the agent before delivery, this includes roll out awnings. Sometimes the builder adds things to the van and still labels the van with the tare weight of the bare standard model That increases the unladen weight of the van.
The load capacity thus is the ATM less the unladen weight of the van.
You mentioned above that you may get the van weighed. Do that before you load anything into the van. You then will be able to calculate the true load capacity of the van.
What is the tow vehicle you will be using and what is its towing capacity? You mentioned above - "Axle Load Capacity: 1450." With that axle capacity you could probably easily get an engineering assessment to upgrade the ATM of the van to 1470 kg. This will give you a 500 kg load capacity, you don't have to use all of that but it will give you plenty of piece of mind about being within the confines of the law and the engineering assessment will give you piece of mind regarding the safety of the heavier van. Put "upgrade ATM" into the search function (the link is at the top of the page) and you will see several links on the subject. If you can't fin any come back, tell me and I will look for you.