The purpose of this post is Not to stir the pot but to understand your thoughts of how to demonstrate to authorities to provide either bins or more bins at various camp and day use sites.
I have read the artical above and agree with all comments. I have notice that this occurs at suburban picnic grounds also.
What are your calm and considered thoughts?
Rob
Mike Harding said
10:49 AM Mar 11, 2017
I haven't read the article so please excuse me if I'm missing something.
No bins in the bush. None. Not one.
Bins simply educate people that they *can* leave their rubbish in the bush and if they happen to be at a site without bins they'll leave rubbish anyway and blame the authorities for not providing bins.
If you can carry it in you can carry it out.
Phil C said
11:30 AM Mar 11, 2017
Rob Mac welcome to the forum, this is a great place to be.
Im sure there are a number of differing opinions on this topic. I wrote the article to make us more aware of the way some folks treat our wonderful country and to raise awareness of the danger of closed free camps.
When I was a kid my Mother would encourage me to drop my litter in the gutter, she would tell me there are people paid to pick that up. Im ever so pleased that attitude didnt follow me into adult life. At one stage the scouts taught bushcraft in terms of burn, bash and bury the trash, well that has gone by the board because wildlife dig up the burnt and bashed items.
I fear we will never overcome the pigs of this world and they will continue to dump anyplace they choose. Our duty (as I see it) as responsible grey nomads is to do a few minutes of clean up and shame the pigs into being a bit tidier. Alas, the problem may never go away, however we can start a revolution in peoples minds by being tidy, cleaning up and taking any rubbish we generate away, as well as one orange bag filled with other peoples junk.
As far as the authorities go, I would seriously doubt they will spend the money on extra bins and employees to keep them empty. I visited a representative of the Dundas council when I was at Esperance and spoke to him about Baxter camp. He told me they just cant afford or justify a truck to visit the site weekly as it is over a 500KM round trip. Currently the bins (all two) are emptied once a month. Extra bins are also out of the question for a similar reason.
Therefore I firmly believe the onus is on us to clean up just a little of others rubbish, take it with us to dispose of properly and keep this attitude going.....
BRING IT IN, TAKE IT OUT, leave no trace, only your footprints.
I hope this clarifies my item in GNT. Cheers
-- Edited by Phil C on Saturday 11th of March 2017 11:31:47 AM
Rob Mac said
12:08 PM Mar 11, 2017
Hi Mike and Phil
It seams the onus is on us to - Bring it in,take it out, leave no trace, only your foot print.
Cheers
Rob
Santa said
02:50 PM Mar 11, 2017
Education is part of the solution, unfortunately some people simply either refuse to hear the message or just don't care.
Happywanderer said
02:54 PM Mar 11, 2017
So easy to take your rubbish out with you.
I always have a plastic bag on a hook for rubbish. ALL my rubbish goes into it.
If there are no bins around, I take it out with me and pop it in the first public bin I find.
Don't understand why everyone can't do the same.
Travel Bug said
03:38 PM Mar 11, 2017
Happywanderer wrote:
So easy to take your rubbish out with you. I always have a plastic bag on a hook for rubbish. ALL my rubbish goes into it. If there are no bins around, I take it out with me and pop it in the first public bin I find. Don't understand why everyone can't do the same.
I do the same thing Marj. There's no excuse for littering.
When the kids were young we always went on camping holidays and we had a little sign in the camper that said:
"Take nothing but photographs... Leave nothing but footprints".
I still live like that.
Kaid said
04:43 PM Mar 11, 2017
We bought a spare wheel cover with a rubbish bag on it. For when there are no bins.
Also bought some plastic picker uppers and a rake. More than happy to do my bit
Umpie1 said
06:45 PM Mar 11, 2017
Unfortunately a minority of people are pigs and leave their rubbish for someone else to pick up. If you don't believe me go and have lunch at one of the big shopping centres food court. there you will see people when they finish their lunch just get up and leave their mess for others to collect even though a rubbish bin is less than 10m away.
-- Edited by Umpie1 on Saturday 11th of March 2017 06:46:13 PM
Lancelot Link said
12:34 AM Mar 12, 2017
Yawn! Sorry, this discussion will never have a logical outcome. I have watched people sitting next to a bin changing disposable nappies, I refuse to bow down to the Americanism as advertised on TV and call them diapers, and leave them on the ground at the table they are sitting at.
I can, to some extent, excuse the newly arrived boat people in Footscray who I used to see while taking shortcuts to avoid the red lights on trips to Victoria Barracks for meetings at 8 o'clock in the morning, defecating in the gutters, but there is no excuse for garbage left, thrown out windows or just blatant laziness!
I watched a guy chuck his cigarette butts over the side of an outdoor eating area in the main street. There were three or four butts by the time he received his meal. He was probably quarter the way through it when I walked up and suggested he should have used the ash tray on his table rather than throw his butts in the gutter. I then bent down, picked up his butts and dropped them on his plate with the uneaten food, bade him good day and hoped he enjoyed his cigarette butts and left. I walked off with a sense of achievement with the guys wife yelling and screaming at him!
Short of nigh on terrorism like this, what is the answer?
SouthernComfort said
08:26 AM Mar 12, 2017
At the risk of sounding pompous, there are two groups of humans in the world: Those who care and those who don't.
The attitude of the "don'ts" pervades everything they do, usually evidenced by lack of manners, courtesy, consideration and accountability, having no concern about other people, wildlife or environment. It's all about them, nothing else counts. They may be a minority group but they have an uncanny ability to crap all over the rest of us with their trail of inconsiderate behaviours - littering being just one of them. They aren't going away, they won't be educated to change their entire psyche, and unfortunately this thread isn't on their radar to bother reading. I doubt there is an answer beyond their occasional / rare apprehension. The opposite group will just continue to be ever more frustrated by them whilst continually finding creative ways of doing the right thing.
Dougwe said
09:02 AM Mar 12, 2017
I agree 100% Tony. Greens lake, Northern VIC is a prime example of the "dont's" but there are more "do's" thank goodness. I am at Greens on a public holiday long weekend as we speak and have a few inconsiderate "dont's" around me.
It will be interesting late tomorrow afternoon when they have gone how much rubbish is left around their camping area.
Vince said
10:31 AM Mar 12, 2017
SouthernComfort wrote:
At the risk of sounding pompous, there are two groups of humans in the world: Those who care and those who don't.
The attitude of the "don'ts" pervades everything they do, usually evidenced by lack of manners, courtesy, consideration and accountability, having no concern about other people, wildlife or environment. It's all about them, nothing else counts. They may be a minority group but they have an uncanny ability to crap all over the rest of us with their trail of inconsiderate behaviours - littering being just one of them. They aren't going away, they won't be educated to change their entire psyche, and unfortunately this thread isn't on their radar to bother reading. I doubt there is an answer beyond their occasional / rare apprehension. The opposite group will just continue to be ever more frustrated by them whilst continually finding creative ways of doing the right thing.
Not pompous at all
Couldn't agree more on your analogy of this topic. I deal with the described "don'ts" on a daily basis in the majority as opposed to the opposites.
Authorities can erect as much signage as they like but it will be ignored through the selfish attitude of many who are consumed within themselves.
Putting bins in is the attraction to leave the rubbish rather than to take it out with you which is the lesson needed to learn.
In the article GNT 142 War With Litter many wrote in on how they clean up sites after others, this being commendable still wont stop the arrogance of others
but also will go a long way in local authorities in maybe not closing the area, do I or don't I?
Just look at everywhere we go and rubbish is littered everywhere, I would have thought that years of Clean Up Australia would have lowered it, but it seems to have not.
Cheers
Vince
Phil C said
11:50 AM Mar 12, 2017
Dougwe wrote:
I agree 100% Tony. Greens lake, Northern VIC is a prime example of the "dont's" but there are more "do's" thank goodness. I am at Greens on a public holiday long weekend as we speak and have a few inconsiderate "dont's" around me.
It will be interesting late tomorrow afternoon when they have gone how much rubbish is left around their camping area.
Gday Dougwe,
Take some before and after photos (make sure you get regos) to shame these buggers into cleaning up after themselves. Should be an interesting exercise.
Haope you are well old mate.
SouthernComfort said
12:58 PM Mar 12, 2017
Vince wrote:
SouthernComfort wrote:
At the risk of sounding pompous, there are two groups of humans in the world: Those who care and those who don't.
The attitude of the "don'ts" pervades everything they do, usually evidenced by lack of manners, courtesy, consideration and accountability, having no concern about other people, wildlife or environment. It's all about them, nothing else counts. They may be a minority group but they have an uncanny ability to crap all over the rest of us with their trail of inconsiderate behaviours - littering being just one of them. They aren't going away, they won't be educated to change their entire psyche, and unfortunately this thread isn't on their radar to bother reading. I doubt there is an answer beyond their occasional / rare apprehension. The opposite group will just continue to be ever more frustrated by them whilst continually finding creative ways of doing the right thing.
Not pompous at all
Couldn't agree more on your analogy of this topic. I deal with the described "don'ts" on a daily basis in the majority as opposed to the opposites.
Authorities can erect as much signage as they like but it will be ignored through the selfish attitude of many who are consumed within themselves.
Putting bins in is the attraction to leave the rubbish rather than to take it out with you which is the lesson needed to learn.
In the article GNT 142 War With Litter many wrote in on how they clean up sites after others, this being commendable still wont stop the arrogance of others
but also will go a long way in local authorities in maybe not closing the area, do I or don't I?
Just look at everywhere we go and rubbish is littered everywhere, I would have thought that years of Clean Up Australia would have lowered it, but it seems to have not.
Cheers
Vince
It's true, ignorance and arrogance are intrinsic characteristics of the type and they won't change. So in the case of littering we clean up after them for our own benefit and maybe we'll prevent areas from being closed down. I agree bins would be a logistical nightmare for councils to manage in many outlying areas and IMHO the onus should be on the camper, it's not always someone else's job to clean up!
The Clean Up Australia message falls into the category of Don't Speed, Don't Drink & Drive etc. etc. If the knuckleheads who put everyone's enjoyment and safety at risk NEED to be told due to a deficiency in basic common sense, then it's highly unlikely a message will have any effect.
Tony Bev said
02:12 PM Mar 12, 2017
The following is my opinion, so I could be wrong But... until I learn otherwise then this particular opinion of mine, is set in stone
I can see a potential problem, where those who would like to see the free camps closed, can use the argument of rubbish left behind to scatter in the wind, as ammunition for their guns
Unfortunately, we the Grey Nomads who are on this forum, are tarred with the same brush as those (travellers/grey nomads in name only type people), who leave their rubbish behind, as a monument to themselves
Also unfortunately, we the Grey Nomads who use the facilities of the free camps, will be at a disadvantage, if we can not afford to stop at paid camps, when/if the free camps close down
I believe that it is to the advantage of us responsible Grey Nomads, who like to use the facilities of the free camps, to try and keep them in a clean state That is the end of the part of my opinion, which is set in stone
I do not know what the answer is, but I hope that by having this problem out in the open, then we the responsible Grey Nomads, can use our combined brain power to come up with some practical solution/s So thanks to Phil C for the article in the Grey Nomads Times issue 142, and also to Rob Mac, for starting this topic, hopefully this topic will stay as a war with litter, and not become a flame war
I will throw four ideas into the ring, but in all honesty I do not know if any one of them will work I will not mention to take some other people rubbish with you, as we do not have an A frame on our RV, and other people rubbish in our RV is a no, no
While staying at a free camp, purchase locally, and thank the shop keeper for having a free camp Hopefully this will filter down to the council, and entice them to keep the free camp open
Pick up rubbish and fill all the bins on site to about three quarters full, to leave room for others If the bins are over three quarters full, then take our own rubbish with us
In the free camps close to a town, consider using a bird proof sack, to pick up the rubbish and leave it, (with the neck tied closed), near the rubbish bin. If anyone knows where to get these types of sacks, then please say so, as I can not seem to find any
In the more remote camps such as Baxter Rest Area on the Nullarbor, (as Phil C has already said, two bins emptied monthly, and I assume, no room for extra sacks full of rubbish, on whatever rubbish vehicle they use), perhaps arrange a Grey Nomads meet up If enough of us can get there at the same time, we may be able to pick up and then burn the rubbish, that is scattered on the ground
Please feel free to pick holes in my ideas, as I have said, I do not know if they will work
Lancelot Link said
01:30 AM Mar 13, 2017
If you are so concerned about your footprint, then stop driving around Australia with rubber tyres. The amount of rubber under the southern ice fields from rubber tyres is incredible. In fact it may be the largest dumping ground of human waste yet! Me, I am not here for a long time, but it will be a good time. Oh, forgot to tell you, if your council does not have a recycling centre, the three bins are a waste of time! It all goes into land fill!
Tony Bev said
02:33 PM Mar 13, 2017
If you are so concerned about your footprint, then stop driving around Australia with rubber tyres
Hello Lancelot Link, no offence intended
The solution you have mentioned, is not really practical
It would be like the execution a single person, using a battery of anti-aircraft guns It gets the job done, but with a bit of overkill
Phil C said
05:13 PM Mar 13, 2017
Hi again.
Time for a position check...
There are as many opinions out there regarding this subject as there are grey nomads, I hesitate to say. This mean we all need to take stock of what we do. No way in the world will folks stop driving about the place creating all forms of atmospheric and ground pollution, however, we can all be a little more diligent when the disposal of rubbish becomes the subject.
I appreciate the differences of opinions and the important emotions attached to the preservation of our planet. IN OUR SMALL CORNER we can make a difference if we take care. So, lets be nice please... I would prefer this thread to remain open..Rant Over.
Philw said
09:00 PM Mar 17, 2017
Agree there are some really interesting comments on here. As stated we are preaching to the converted here however we can make a change by spreading the message in our actions. Every time we stop, morning tea, lunch or an overnighter, we wander around and do a litter collection. Its our country and I am proud of it and value this land enough to want to keep it pristine. So if I see litter, I pick I t up and make a point of talking to the other grey nomads nearbye about this issue. In this way, I hope in a small way that people get the idea that its not difficult to make this small effort. Messages can spread in this manner.
apart from all that, I find it remarkable that there are people who are happy to call themselves Australians yet are quite willing to trash their land. These people seem to not have a sense of stewardship to this land that we share.
Santa said
10:04 PM Mar 17, 2017
Philw wrote:
Agree there are some really interesting comments on here. As stated we are preaching to the converted here however we can make a change by spreading the message in our actions. Every time we stop, morning tea, lunch or an overnighter, we wander around and do a litter collection. Its our country and I am proud of it and value this land enough to want to keep it pristine. So if I see litter, I pick I t up and make a point of talking to the other grey nomads nearbye about this issue. In this way, I hope in a small way that people get the idea that its not difficult to make this small effort. Messages can spread in this manner. apart from all that, I find it remarkable that there are people who are happy to call themselves Australians yet are quite willing to trash their land. These people seem to not have a sense of stewardship to this land that we share.
Evening Phil, I hear what your saying, not sure I agree, whilst your efforts in picking up other peoples litter is admirable, I wonder if you and others doing this will ultimately send the message that it's OK to litter, someone else will pick up after me.
Some never seem to grow out of the teenage assumption that mum is always there to pick/clean up after them.
Not sure what the solution is, human nature being what it is I'm not even sure there is a solution, there will always be grubs as there will always be neat freaks.
Hi All
The purpose of this post is Not to stir the pot but to understand your thoughts of how to demonstrate to authorities to provide either bins or more bins at various camp and day use sites.
I have read the artical above and agree with all comments. I have notice that this occurs at suburban picnic grounds also.
What are your calm and considered thoughts?
Rob
I haven't read the article so please excuse me if I'm missing something.
No bins in the bush. None. Not one.
Bins simply educate people that they *can* leave their rubbish in the bush and if they happen to be at a site without bins they'll leave rubbish anyway and blame the authorities for not providing bins.
If you can carry it in you can carry it out.
Rob Mac welcome to the forum, this is a great place to be.
Im sure there are a number of differing opinions on this topic. I wrote the article to make us more aware of the way some folks treat our wonderful country and to raise awareness of the danger of closed free camps.
When I was a kid my Mother would encourage me to drop my litter in the gutter, she would tell me there are people paid to pick that up. Im ever so pleased that attitude didnt follow me into adult life. At one stage the scouts taught bushcraft in terms of burn, bash and bury the trash, well that has gone by the board because wildlife dig up the burnt and bashed items.
I fear we will never overcome the pigs of this world and they will continue to dump anyplace they choose. Our duty (as I see it) as responsible grey nomads is to do a few minutes of clean up and shame the pigs into being a bit tidier. Alas, the problem may never go away, however we can start a revolution in peoples minds by being tidy, cleaning up and taking any rubbish we generate away, as well as one orange bag filled with other peoples junk.
As far as the authorities go, I would seriously doubt they will spend the money on extra bins and employees to keep them empty. I visited a representative of the Dundas council when I was at Esperance and spoke to him about Baxter camp. He told me they just cant afford or justify a truck to visit the site weekly as it is over a 500KM round trip. Currently the bins (all two) are emptied once a month. Extra bins are also out of the question for a similar reason.
Therefore I firmly believe the onus is on us to clean up just a little of others rubbish, take it with us to dispose of properly and keep this attitude going.....
BRING IT IN, TAKE IT OUT, leave no trace, only your footprints.
I hope this clarifies my item in GNT.
Cheers
-- Edited by Phil C on Saturday 11th of March 2017 11:31:47 AM
It seams the onus is on us to - Bring it in,take it out, leave no trace, only your foot print.
Cheers
Rob
Education is part of the solution, unfortunately some people simply either refuse to hear the message or just don't care.
I always have a plastic bag on a hook for rubbish. ALL my rubbish goes into it.
If there are no bins around, I take it out with me and pop it in the first public bin I find.
Don't understand why everyone can't do the same.
I do the same thing Marj. There's no excuse for littering.
When the kids were young we always went on camping holidays and we had a little sign in the camper that said:
"Take nothing but photographs...
Leave nothing but footprints".
I still live like that.
Also bought some plastic picker uppers and a rake. More than happy to do my bit
Unfortunately a minority of people are pigs and leave their rubbish for someone else to pick up. If you don't believe me go and have lunch at one of the big shopping centres food court. there you will see people when they finish their lunch just get up and leave their mess for others to collect even though a rubbish bin is less than 10m away.
-- Edited by Umpie1 on Saturday 11th of March 2017 06:46:13 PM
I can, to some extent, excuse the newly arrived boat people in Footscray who I used to see while taking shortcuts to avoid the red lights on trips to Victoria Barracks for meetings at 8 o'clock in the morning, defecating in the gutters, but there is no excuse for garbage left, thrown out windows or just blatant laziness!
I watched a guy chuck his cigarette butts over the side of an outdoor eating area in the main street. There were three or four butts by the time he received his meal. He was probably quarter the way through it when I walked up and suggested he should have used the ash tray on his table rather than throw his butts in the gutter. I then bent down, picked up his butts and dropped them on his plate with the uneaten food, bade him good day and hoped he enjoyed his cigarette butts and left. I walked off with a sense of achievement with the guys wife yelling and screaming at him!
Short of nigh on terrorism like this, what is the answer?
The attitude of the "don'ts" pervades everything they do, usually evidenced by lack of manners, courtesy, consideration and accountability, having no concern about other people, wildlife or environment. It's all about them, nothing else counts. They may be a minority group but they have an uncanny ability to crap all over the rest of us with their trail of inconsiderate behaviours - littering being just one of them. They aren't going away, they won't be educated to change their entire psyche, and unfortunately this thread isn't on their radar to bother reading. I doubt there is an answer beyond their occasional / rare apprehension. The opposite group will just continue to be ever more frustrated by them whilst continually finding creative ways of doing the right thing.
It will be interesting late tomorrow afternoon when they have gone how much rubbish is left around their camping area.
Not pompous at all
Couldn't agree more on your analogy of this topic. I deal with the described "don'ts" on a daily basis in the majority as opposed to the opposites.
Authorities can erect as much signage as they like but it will be ignored through the selfish attitude of many who are consumed within themselves.
Putting bins in is the attraction to leave the rubbish rather than to take it out with you which is the lesson needed to learn.
In the article GNT 142 War With Litter many wrote in on how they clean up sites after others, this being commendable still wont stop the arrogance of others
but also will go a long way in local authorities in maybe not closing the area, do I or don't I?
Just look at everywhere we go and rubbish is littered everywhere, I would have thought that years of Clean Up Australia would have lowered it, but it seems to have not.
Cheers
Vince
Gday Dougwe,
Take some before and after photos (make sure you get regos) to shame these buggers into cleaning up after themselves. Should be an interesting exercise.
Haope you are well old mate.
It's true, ignorance and arrogance are intrinsic characteristics of the type and they won't change. So in the case of littering we clean up after them for our own benefit and maybe we'll prevent areas from being closed down. I agree bins would be a logistical nightmare for councils to manage in many outlying areas and IMHO the onus should be on the camper, it's not always someone else's job to clean up!
The Clean Up Australia message falls into the category of Don't Speed, Don't Drink & Drive etc. etc. If the knuckleheads who put everyone's enjoyment and safety at risk NEED to be told due to a deficiency in basic common sense, then it's highly unlikely a message will have any effect.
The following is my opinion, so I could be wrong
But... until I learn otherwise then this particular opinion of mine, is set in stone
I can see a potential problem, where those who would like to see the free camps closed, can use the argument of rubbish left behind to scatter in the wind, as ammunition for their guns
Unfortunately, we the Grey Nomads who are on this forum, are tarred with the same brush as those (travellers/grey nomads in name only type people), who leave their rubbish behind, as a monument to themselves
Also unfortunately, we the Grey Nomads who use the facilities of the free camps, will be at a disadvantage, if we can not afford to stop at paid camps, when/if the free camps close down
I believe that it is to the advantage of us responsible Grey Nomads, who like to use the facilities of the free camps, to try and keep them in a clean state
That is the end of the part of my opinion, which is set in stone
I do not know what the answer is, but I hope that by having this problem out in the open, then we the responsible Grey Nomads, can use our combined brain power to come up with some practical solution/s
So thanks to Phil C for the article in the Grey Nomads Times issue 142, and also to Rob Mac, for starting this topic, hopefully this topic will stay as a war with litter, and not become a flame war
I will throw four ideas into the ring, but in all honesty I do not know if any one of them will work
I will not mention to take some other people rubbish with you, as we do not have an A frame on our RV, and other people rubbish in our RV is a no, no
Hopefully this will filter down to the council, and entice them to keep the free camp open
If the bins are over three quarters full, then take our own rubbish with us
If anyone knows where to get these types of sacks, then please say so, as I can not seem to find any
If enough of us can get there at the same time, we may be able to pick up and then burn the rubbish, that is scattered on the ground
Please feel free to pick holes in my ideas, as I have said, I do not know if they will work
Hello Lancelot Link, no offence intended
The solution you have mentioned, is not really practical
It would be like the execution a single person, using a battery of anti-aircraft guns
It gets the job done, but with a bit of overkill
Time for a position check...
There are as many opinions out there regarding this subject as there are grey nomads, I hesitate to say. This mean we all need to take stock of what we do. No way in the world will folks stop driving about the place creating all forms of atmospheric and ground pollution, however, we can all be a little more diligent when the disposal of rubbish becomes the subject.
I appreciate the differences of opinions and the important emotions attached to the preservation of our planet. IN OUR SMALL CORNER we can make a difference if we take care. So, lets be nice please... I would prefer this thread to remain open..Rant Over.
Evening Phil, I hear what your saying, not sure I agree, whilst your efforts in picking up other peoples litter is admirable, I wonder if you and others doing this will ultimately send the message that it's OK to litter, someone else will pick up after me.
Some never seem to grow out of the teenage assumption that mum is always there to pick/clean up after them.
Not sure what the solution is, human nature being what it is I'm not even sure there is a solution, there will always be grubs as there will always be neat freaks.