"I DON'T know anyone who would happily camp for that extortion, and furthermore willingly spend their dollar in other retail businesses".
northernstar.com.au
Hey Jim said
10:11 PM Jan 13, 2017
Hi Jules,
No wonder why we love to free camp.
We used to stay at Yamba 20 years back with our kids. The big foreshore park was sold to a Japanese company for 6m back then, with the owners having to stay on for a few years to manage as part of the deal. Back then it was big $$$.
It is most likely the same park. Land values there have gone through the roof. Try rent a property over Xmas New Year. $$$$$$
Jim
brickies said
10:25 PM Jan 13, 2017
I think that would be for a cabin , Not a site price a quick for a site at the Big4 at Yamba is $39 a night .
rockylizard said
10:50 PM Jan 13, 2017
Gday...
These two sites refer to the $144/night caravan park fee -
The original story which is the letter of complaint. Not to the van park, or the Chamber of Commerce, or the local Tourist Authority apparently, but to the Northern Star newspaper -
The newspaper's 'survey' of the prices being charged by the parks in the area is illuminating.
Wonder if we will ever know the full story
Cheers - John
diggerop said
11:20 PM Jan 13, 2017
It maybe exorbitant but it's not extortion.
Desert Dweller said
05:45 AM Jan 14, 2017
With thousands of baby boomers now hitting the road & in the near future that will probably be the going rate for all caravan parks.
PeterD said
09:49 AM Jan 14, 2017
It's often referred to as rationing. The growth in van sales is far outstripping the growth in caravan park sites so some form of control in the demand for parks in the busy season.
$144 is not bad in the scheme of things when you consider that one woman I was talking to was claiming she paid around $80 for a tent site in Coconut Palms @ Cairns 15 years ago (herself and 4 kids.)
You must also remember that land prices has also rocketed in those places as well. If the return on investments does not reflect the profit available for the capital price they may as well flog the place off for housing and bank the proceeds. Then there would be no park there at reasonable rates for us off season.
Umpie1 said
10:18 AM Jan 14, 2017
Unfortunately there are those who will pay $144.50 [did it include a butler?] for a site. However some of these parks do not realise that they are missing out on the bread and butter market and will either go out of business or make it difficult for low cost camping to be in their area.
-- Edited by Umpie1 on Saturday 14th of January 2017 10:19:10 AM
The Belmont Bear said
11:37 AM Jan 14, 2017
Here is a link to some statistics on RV usage in Australia -
A couple of interesting points 1) the main RV market in Australia is the 35 to 54 age group with 50% of the market, 55 to 70 year olds make up only 25% 2) there are 170,000 powered and unpowered sites available in Australia every night with 86,000 of them going unused.
DD you might think that baby boomers are the cause of crowding and excessive prices in the coastal caravan parks such as Yamba, but it's more likely the families who flock there during holiday periods that drive the prices higher. Most baby boomers moving into retirement are going to avoid the coastal parks during holiday periods because of the increased cost and the fact that they are not restricted on when they can travel. Caravan park owners like others in the tourism industry need a return on their investment and if the avg. occupancy rate for the rest of the year is less than 50% it's no wonder that they take advantage of the holiday season to charge more. Personally I feel sorry for the working families who by having to take their vacations when there's a high demand for camp sites are subsidising the cheaper rates paid during the quieter times of the year.
Goldfinger said
11:53 AM Jan 14, 2017
Local Government Planning Laws/Zonings used to protect CV sites as Commercial sites which could not just be ""cashed in"" and subdivided into housing sites at the whim of the owner or potential developer...with vested interests on Councils and corruption many CV sites are indeed being lost to developers....before allowing a CV site to be removed from an area, Council Planners should allocate/re-zone adjacent alternate Rural land as potential CV sites BEFORE allowing/approving/developing housing divisions on existing CV sites....its a potential win/win situation for all, however Australia is now driven by greed not pragmatism ...further increasing the great divide between the wealthy and the ever growing 'rest' of us....fairness has no place in the new Australia IMO....
One developer who had purchased a coastal CV in S.A. with the express intention of developing a CV site as a coastal Housing Site told me "they go IN on wheels and they go OUT on wheels" as he had to remove the so called 'permanents' problem first....he forbid the current owners from further mentioning the word 'permanents'.....during the 6 months transistion period of removing them al,l and making application for housing development....
With most Commercial Operations driven by Accountants these days with increasing profitability being the only goal/acceptable outcome, anyone who is waiting for CV site fees to reduce in the future I suggest is unfortunately now living in a fools paradise......
We need advocates to make representations and present planning alternatives to Local Council Planners i.e. Rural land close to Town's/City's rezoning to provide alternative and additional potential low key CV type sites for the ever growing baby boomer demographic...monopoly's in total control will only continue to exascerbate 'Our' problems....additional suitable zoned lands will remove their monopolistic control.....BUT...don't hold your breath for any fairness in this regard in the near future....
Before the usual inevitable 'nay sayers'/vested interests tell me to 'suck eggs'..my experience is based in my former life as 22 years Commercial and Rural Bank Manager, and Certified Business Broker/Registered Real Estate Agent for 20 plus years, which included selling CV parks so I have an understanding of owners and developers motivations...and Planning Laws
Australia can accommodate all current demographic/stake holders for the better future for all if greed/corruption/vested interests can first be contained/identified/exposed and transparency with all Planning Decisions and re-Zonings of land for intelligent future use.....Hoo Roo
-- Edited by Goldfinger on Saturday 14th of January 2017 11:56:32 AM
msg said
02:36 PM Jan 14, 2017
A day at the beach is fast becoming a no no. Not for the general public anyway. Those that own waterfront properties block everyone from parking anywhere near. ""Not in our back yard"" is their catch cry.
Mutley said
02:55 PM Jan 14, 2017
The owners are sending a message loud & clear to me! We don't want caravans! Cabins must be their mainstay?
jules47 said
03:45 PM Jan 14, 2017
This is a quote from the article - Brickies the price is for a powered site for a motorhome -
" pleasure of visiting the Clarence area in our motorhome and found some beautiful and fantastic facilities.
Our visit brought to attention one particular concern that we feel needs immediate investigation and discussion. POLL: How much would you pay for a caravan site?
Upon contacting a caravan park in Yamba, we were floored speechless when we enquired about booking a stay on a powered site.
The quote was $289!
That is $144.50 per night (we were also instructed there was a two night minimum stay, which is fair enough during peak times"
- there is more - but no need to print any further, I thought.
-- Edited by jules47 on Saturday 14th of January 2017 03:48:33 PM
The Belmont Bear said
08:00 PM Jan 14, 2017
msg wrote:
A day at the beach is fast becoming a no no. Not for the general public anyway. Those that own waterfront properties block everyone from parking anywhere near. ""Not in our back yard"" is their catch cry.
I live in NSWs 2nd largest city and we probably have 60kms of surfing beaches stretching from Catherine Hill Bay all the way up to Port Stephens. I don't know of too many where you can't park your car and spend the day - maybe Newcastle Beach which is in the middle of the CBD and probably has metered parking. There are beachside caravan parks in places like Stockton, Redhead, Blacksmith etc. which I don't doubt in peak season will charge you more to stay (nothing like $147).
Hey Jim is 100% correct try renting a holiday house somewhere on the north coast in the off season and then do it again in the peak season and see if there is a difference. I would be surprised if in the peak times it's not at least 4 or 5 times dearer. I don't hear of too many people wanting to boycott these places because of what these "extortionists" are charging them in fact you probably have to book 12 months in advance to get one.
msg said
08:11 PM Jan 14, 2017
Holiday House Batemans Bay Area is roughly $1000 per week. But divided by the six or eight persons you can have there, its not too bad. Quite good actually.
The Belmont Bear said
01:22 PM Jan 15, 2017
Msg, if staying with a bigger group reduces the cost of your holiday that's great, I know plenty of people who do that but it doesn't alter the fact that you will pay more for the same accommodation at different times of the year especially in the higher demand areas along the coast.
The price goes up when the supply is less than the demand, the price goes down when the supply is more than the demand that's how market driven economies work. If it gets to a point where people are not willing to pay $147/night to stay at the big 4 in Yamba their supply will eventually outstrip their demand and in order to fill the park they will have to drop their prices. I wouldn't hold my breath waiting though because working people with families still have to take their holidays at certain times of the year and they have no choice but to pay these higher prices. The advantage for those of us who have retired is that we have more flexibility on when we go to these places. If you read the figures in my original post working families make up 50% of all RV owners so you don't have to be Einstein to work out when there is going to be the highest demand for sites and therefore the highest charges. In order to reduce the rates during the peak season you could build more parks but then they would risk going broke in the off season trying to share an already low occupancy rate.
A market economy - is an economic system where decisions regarding investment, production, and distribution are based on the interplay of supply and demand, which determines the prices of goods and services. (wikipedia)
msg said
05:23 PM Jan 15, 2017
Belmont Bear, put a sock in it. I have a degree in economics.
TheHeaths said
07:55 PM Jan 15, 2017
Gee MSG, and you just put a post about that sort of reply in another thread.
msg said
08:19 PM Jan 15, 2017
Yeah, wonder why
The Belmont Bear said
09:22 PM Jan 15, 2017
Post removed - maybe best not to make any further comment other wise it could escalate.
-- Edited by The Belmont Bear on Sunday 15th of January 2017 09:47:46 PM
madaboutled said
11:34 PM Jan 15, 2017
Mutley wrote:
The owners are sending a message loud & clear to me! We don't want caravans! Cabins must be their mainstay?
You might be onto something there Mutley.... Perhaps Caravan Park/s are trying to price out sites in a hope no one will book & stay in order to justify to the local council that there's no more demand for powered or unpowered sites so they can get approval for more cabins ???
Goldfinger said
11:06 AM Jan 16, 2017
There is one Caravan Park in S.A. owned by a non main stream Religious Body, that is now 100% cabins and privately owned "Removeable/Relocatable Homes" all happened by osmosis....NOT one Caravan site is now available.......no beg your pardons...local Council has allowed this to happen....a change under Zoning Use has occurred by stealth....no other land has been re-zoned to replace this lost Caravan Park...this should be mandatory if Councils are to oversee the demise in the number of available true Caravan Parks....won't be the last either......Australia today.......Hoo Roo
-- Edited by Goldfinger on Monday 16th of January 2017 10:59:08 PM
RosieW said
11:17 AM Jan 16, 2017
If we MUST stay in a park (prefer showgrounds), we would be looking to pay under $50 - most we have ever paid is $37, we were desperate because of mechanical issues. Only stayed one night.
If people want to pay that much, then that is their look-out. It's the same with everything, if someone can get away with sky-high rates, they will.
Bryan said
12:28 PM Jan 16, 2017
I would never pay that much for a caravan site, even if I could afford it but if I owned a caravan site where some people where prepared to pay that amount, I would gladly charge it and more if I could get away with it.
If I was the owner and I price myself into bankruptcy that's my affair, conversely if I find myself a niche market, I would exploit to the full.
the rocket said
04:12 PM Jan 16, 2017
Yep. Thanks. Put it on my "do not go there list"
Phillipn said
04:16 PM Jan 16, 2017
Goldfinger wrote:
There is one Caravan Park in S.A. owned by a non main stream Religious Body, that is now 100% cabins and privately owned "Removeable Homes" all happened by osmosis....NOT one Caravan site is now available.......no beg your pardons...local Council has allowed this to happen either by sheer stupidity of not knowing what was happening, or is complicit......a change under Zoning has occurred by stealth....no other land has been re-zoned to replace this lost Caravan Park...this should be mandatory if Councils are to oversee the demise in the number of available true Caravan Parks....won't be the last either......Australia today.......Hoo Roo
Is that at Victor Harbor?????
Goldfinger said
05:58 PM Jan 16, 2017
Gawler/Evanston Gardens, was formerly The Evanston Gardens Caravan Park.
Wizardofoz said
08:56 AM Jan 17, 2017
msg wrote:
A day at the beach is fast becoming a no no. Not for the general public anyway. Those that own waterfront properties block everyone from parking anywhere near. ""Not in our back yard"" is their catch cry.
Not so, I own a beachfront and I can't park in the street because of beach goers as we have a public beach access 2 doors away and it is a lot closer that the huge car park the council built just up from the surf club, that car park has a 100 metre beach conservation walk to go through so the public parks in the surrounding streets. these streets are so narrow that it only allows cars to drive one way at a time as 2 vehicles can't fit through.
It's so bad at Christmas and Easter that I stay in Sydney with the kids, so don't blame us, these properties have been here for 100 years, albeit old cottages in those days. Today you are not allowed to build on natural waterfront land as it has to be left for public parkland which is not a bad idea.
At least we pay for the privelidged position with rates alone exceeding $6000 pa. and only reside here for 4 months a year as we caravan and travel the rest.
North Wollongong Beach is a classic example of parkland beach access, if you don't get there before 9am you are lucky to find a car parking space as the park road is parked out by hundreds of cars, so even the locals can't find a parking space...proof positive, it is not always the locals at fault as the public is the bigger hog of street parking!
-- Edited by Wizardofoz on Tuesday 17th of January 2017 08:57:17 AM
-- Edited by Wizardofoz on Tuesday 17th of January 2017 09:07:44 AM
sandsmere said
09:54 AM Jan 17, 2017
Bryan wrote:
I would never pay that much for a caravan site, even if I could afford it but if I owned a caravan site where some people where prepared to pay that amount, I would gladly charge it and more if I could get away with it.
If I was the owner and I price myself into bankruptcy that's my affair, conversely if I find myself a niche market, I would exploit to the full.
Sorry - tried to copy it over, but this is what a person on another forum was quoted for a night in Yamba at a CP - with a minimum of 2 nights!!!!!!
Hi Jules,
No wonder why we love to free camp.
We used to stay at Yamba 20 years back with our kids. The big foreshore park was sold to a Japanese company for 6m back then, with the owners having to stay on for a few years to manage as part of the deal. Back then it was big $$$.
It is most likely the same park. Land values there have gone through the roof. Try rent a property over Xmas New Year. $$$$$$
Jim
Gday...
These two sites refer to the $144/night caravan park fee -
The original story which is the letter of complaint. Not to the van park, or the Chamber of Commerce, or the local Tourist Authority apparently, but to the Northern Star newspaper -
http://www.northernstar.com.au/news/144-a-night-at-caravan-park-is-absolutely-appallin/3130300/
Interesting no mention of the van park name ... just that they rang, asked for quote and received this in response.
and a follow-up story by the Northern Star -
http://www.northernstar.com.au/news/northern-rivers-caravan-parks-less-than-half-the-p/3131442/
The newspaper's 'survey' of the prices being charged by the parks in the area is illuminating.
Wonder if we will ever know the full story
Cheers - John
With thousands of baby boomers now hitting the road & in the near future that will probably be the going rate for all caravan parks.
$144 is not bad in the scheme of things when you consider that one woman I was talking to was claiming she paid around $80 for a tent site in Coconut Palms @ Cairns 15 years ago (herself and 4 kids.)
You must also remember that land prices has also rocketed in those places as well. If the return on investments does not reflect the profit available for the capital price they may as well flog the place off for housing and bank the proceeds. Then there would be no park there at reasonable rates for us off season.
Unfortunately there are those who will pay $144.50 [did it include a butler?] for a site. However some of these parks do not realise that they are missing out on the bread and butter market and will either go out of business or make it difficult for low cost camping to be in their area.
-- Edited by Umpie1 on Saturday 14th of January 2017 10:19:10 AM
www.caravanindustry.com.au/research
A couple of interesting points 1) the main RV market in Australia is the 35 to 54 age group with 50% of the market, 55 to 70 year olds make up only 25% 2) there are 170,000 powered and unpowered sites available in Australia every night with 86,000 of them going unused.
DD you might think that baby boomers are the cause of crowding and excessive prices in the coastal caravan parks such as Yamba, but it's more likely the families who flock there during holiday periods that drive the prices higher. Most baby boomers moving into retirement are going to avoid the coastal parks during holiday periods because of the increased cost and the fact that they are not restricted on when they can travel. Caravan park owners like others in the tourism industry need a return on their investment and if the avg. occupancy rate for the rest of the year is less than 50% it's no wonder that they take advantage of the holiday season to charge more. Personally I feel sorry for the working families who by having to take their vacations when there's a high demand for camp sites are subsidising the cheaper rates paid during the quieter times of the year.
Local Government Planning Laws/Zonings used to protect CV sites as Commercial sites which could not just be ""cashed in"" and subdivided into housing sites at the whim of the owner or potential developer...with vested interests on Councils and corruption many CV sites are indeed being lost to developers....before allowing a CV site to be removed from an area, Council Planners should allocate/re-zone adjacent alternate Rural land as potential CV sites BEFORE allowing/approving/developing housing divisions on existing CV sites....its a potential win/win situation for all, however Australia is now driven by greed not pragmatism ...further increasing the great divide between the wealthy and the ever growing 'rest' of us....fairness has no place in the new Australia IMO....
One developer who had purchased a coastal CV in S.A. with the express intention of developing a CV site as a coastal Housing Site told me "they go IN on wheels and they go OUT on wheels" as he had to remove the so called 'permanents' problem first....he forbid the current owners from further mentioning the word 'permanents'.....during the 6 months transistion period of removing them al,l and making application for housing development....
With most Commercial Operations driven by Accountants these days with increasing profitability being the only goal/acceptable outcome, anyone who is waiting for CV site fees to reduce in the future I suggest is unfortunately now living in a fools paradise......
We need advocates to make representations and present planning alternatives to Local Council Planners i.e. Rural land close to Town's/City's rezoning to provide alternative and additional potential low key CV type sites for the ever growing baby boomer demographic...monopoly's in total control will only continue to exascerbate 'Our' problems....additional suitable zoned lands will remove their monopolistic control.....BUT...don't hold your breath for any fairness in this regard in the near future....
Before the usual inevitable 'nay sayers'/vested interests tell me to 'suck eggs'..my experience is based in my former life as 22 years Commercial and Rural Bank Manager, and Certified Business Broker/Registered Real Estate Agent for 20 plus years, which included selling CV parks so I have an understanding of owners and developers motivations...and Planning Laws
Australia can accommodate all current demographic/stake holders for the better future for all if greed/corruption/vested interests can first be contained/identified/exposed and transparency with all Planning Decisions and re-Zonings of land for intelligent future use.....Hoo Roo
-- Edited by Goldfinger on Saturday 14th of January 2017 11:56:32 AM
This is a quote from the article - Brickies the price is for a powered site for a motorhome -
" pleasure of visiting the Clarence area in our motorhome and found some beautiful and fantastic facilities.
Our visit brought to attention one particular concern that we feel needs immediate investigation and discussion.
POLL: How much would you pay for a caravan site?
Upon contacting a caravan park in Yamba, we were floored speechless when we enquired about booking a stay on a powered site.
The quote was $289!
That is $144.50 per night (we were also instructed there was a two night minimum stay, which is fair enough during peak times"
- there is more - but no need to print any further, I thought.
-- Edited by jules47 on Saturday 14th of January 2017 03:48:33 PM
I live in NSWs 2nd largest city and we probably have 60kms of surfing beaches stretching from Catherine Hill Bay all the way up to Port Stephens. I don't know of too many where you can't park your car and spend the day - maybe Newcastle Beach which is in the middle of the CBD and probably has metered parking. There are beachside caravan parks in places like Stockton, Redhead, Blacksmith etc. which I don't doubt in peak season will charge you more to stay (nothing like $147).
Hey Jim is 100% correct try renting a holiday house somewhere on the north coast in the off season and then do it again in the peak season and see if there is a difference. I would be surprised if in the peak times it's not at least 4 or 5 times dearer. I don't hear of too many people wanting to boycott these places because of what these "extortionists" are charging them in fact you probably have to book 12 months in advance to get one.
Msg, if staying with a bigger group reduces the cost of your holiday that's great, I know plenty of people who do that but it doesn't alter the fact that you will pay more for the same accommodation at different times of the year especially in the higher demand areas along the coast.
The price goes up when the supply is less than the demand, the price goes down when the supply is more than the demand that's how market driven economies work. If it gets to a point where people are not willing to pay $147/night to stay at the big 4 in Yamba their supply will eventually outstrip their demand and in order to fill the park they will have to drop their prices. I wouldn't hold my breath waiting though because working people with families still have to take their holidays at certain times of the year and they have no choice but to pay these higher prices. The advantage for those of us who have retired is that we have more flexibility on when we go to these places. If you read the figures in my original post working families make up 50% of all RV owners so you don't have to be Einstein to work out when there is going to be the highest demand for sites and therefore the highest charges. In order to reduce the rates during the peak season you could build more parks but then they would risk going broke in the off season trying to share an already low occupancy rate.
A market economy - is an economic system where decisions regarding investment, production, and distribution are based on the interplay of supply and demand, which determines the prices of goods and services. (wikipedia)
Post removed - maybe best not to make any further comment other wise it could escalate.
-- Edited by The Belmont Bear on Sunday 15th of January 2017 09:47:46 PM
You might be onto something there Mutley.... Perhaps Caravan Park/s are trying to price out sites in a hope no one will book & stay in order to justify to the local council that there's no more demand for powered or unpowered sites so they can get approval for more cabins ???
There is one Caravan Park in S.A. owned by a non main stream Religious Body, that is now 100% cabins and privately owned "Removeable/Relocatable Homes" all happened by osmosis....NOT one Caravan site is now available.......no beg your pardons...local Council has allowed this to happen....a change under Zoning Use has occurred by stealth....no other land has been re-zoned to replace this lost Caravan Park...this should be mandatory if Councils are to oversee the demise in the number of available true Caravan Parks....won't be the last either......Australia today.......Hoo Roo
-- Edited by Goldfinger on Monday 16th of January 2017 10:59:08 PM
If people want to pay that much, then that is their look-out. It's the same with everything, if someone can get away with sky-high rates, they will.
If I was the owner and I price myself into bankruptcy that's my affair, conversely if I find myself a niche market, I would exploit to the full.
Yep. Thanks. Put it on my "do not go there list"
Is that at Victor Harbor?????
Not so, I own a beachfront and I can't park in the street because of beach goers as we have a public beach access 2 doors away and it is a lot closer that the huge car park the council built just up from the surf club, that car park has a 100 metre beach conservation walk to go through so the public parks in the surrounding streets. these streets are so narrow that it only allows cars to drive one way at a time as 2 vehicles can't fit through.
It's so bad at Christmas and Easter that I stay in Sydney with the kids, so don't blame us, these properties have been here for 100 years, albeit old cottages in those days. Today you are not allowed to build on natural waterfront land as it has to be left for public parkland which is not a bad idea.
At least we pay for the privelidged position with rates alone exceeding $6000 pa. and only reside here for 4 months a year as we caravan and travel the rest.
North Wollongong Beach is a classic example of parkland beach access, if you don't get there before 9am you are lucky to find a car parking space as the park road is parked out by hundreds of cars, so even the locals can't find a parking space...proof positive, it is not always the locals at fault as the public is the bigger hog of street parking!
-- Edited by Wizardofoz on Tuesday 17th of January 2017 08:57:17 AM
-- Edited by Wizardofoz on Tuesday 17th of January 2017 09:07:44 AM
Me too. And 95% of normal people.