Seen too many vans with an unbelievable amount of stuff added to the a-frame at the front and a rack on the back - 100kg worth of motorbike and some extra fuel hanging off the back cannot be good.
Also, too many without towing mirrors.
OwenK said
07:40 PM Nov 25, 2016
Hi John, very interesting article. Thank you , I wonder how many manufacturers would be willing to issue an updated compliance plate (not many) I would think .
Cheers Owen .
Tony Bev said
11:20 PM Nov 25, 2016
A very interesting read John
Up until now, I had never realised that, Caveat emptor or let the buyer beware, would have been applicable to new tugs and caravans
Also on the same web page, I noticed a link to an article about the new
Cut-price Chinese campervans coming
That page was also interesting reading
mezza56 said
08:09 AM Nov 26, 2016
This article reads like a paid advert to me , from what I have seen on this forum there have been more Jayco people going on about incorrect weights on their van than any others.
montie said
08:16 AM Nov 26, 2016
How many posters on this forum have heard of RVMAP? It was formerly the RVMAA which was taken over by the national industry body the CRVA.
It is an accreditation program that manufacturers are required to adhere to to set compliancing standards for the vans they build. These manufacturers are subject to audit by RVMAP and are allowed to display the badge on their products.
Problem is the average punter has never heard of RVMAP so the badge means nothing to them when they go shopping for a new caravan. The CRVA spend large amounts of our dollars on fancy tourism ads where I believe they should be spending these dollars marketing the significance of the RVMAP badge and what it means to potential buyers. Buyers should be looking for this badge on any RV they are considering purchasing and if it's not there walk away.
The other problem is RVMAP have no enforcement powers to make manufacturers comply and recalcitrant builders thumb their noses at them. This would not be the case if the badge had some significance to potential buyers because it would hit these bodgy builders where it hurts most....their bank accounts.
Montie
-- Edited by montie on Saturday 26th of November 2016 08:44:36 AM
Bushpie said
09:56 AM Nov 26, 2016
So pleased that the odds of us getting a lemon are so high whe we take the plunge.
I will not be able to say I was un informed thats for sure.
PeterInSa said
10:13 AM Nov 26, 2016
Re from above: Is your caravan Legal
Comment ( the distance between the gas cylinder and their regulator.)
Some time ago someone posted on this Forum or Candm the Gas Reg for caravans, I have tried to find this write up to no avail as I would like to see the answer to the above and also what (legal?) height the the Regulator should be as compared to the gas bottles.
Thanks
Peter
Possum3 said
10:39 AM Nov 26, 2016
Copy of list of Lemon Caravans and Dealers from Lemon Site;
LEMON CARAVANS IN AUS
List of reported manufacturers who have manufactured a lemon RV and who
are alleged to have not abided by the Australian Consumer Law.
List of reported dealers who have sold a lemon RV and who are alleged to
have not abided by the Australian Consumer Law.
Version Two 17 November 2016
DISCLAIMER
The veracity of claims by members is not fully checked by the administration
of Lemon Laws in Aus. This list is based on reports on the page with some
evidence provided and an agreement of the rules of the site to be truthful.
These lists are intended to be a starting point for your own research into the
most suitable brand of RV for your purposes and the most suitable dealer to
purchase from. They are not definitive. There may be manufacturers not listed
who are also producing lemons. There may be dealers listed who are not
treating their customers properly under Australian Consumer Law. As always,
buyer beware.
If evidence is provided that a named manufacturer or dealer has voluntarily
entered into a satisfactory rectification program for all lemon owners of their
brand this will be noted. When all known lemon owners are satisfied, the
named manufacturer or dealer will be removed from the list.
RV manufacturers
Lotus Caravans
Sunland
Elite
JB
Crusader
Jayco
Masterpiece (Owned by former JB part owner and manager who reportedly
denied consumer rights. No known lemons in the MP brand reported to date.)
Euro
Free Spirit
Kimberley Group including Kruiser and Kamper
Goldstar
Avan/Golf
Otron
Retreat
Spaceland
Nova
Billabong
Coromal
Supreme
Avida
Millard
New Age
Track Trailer
Wirraway Motor Homes (Coastzone Pty Ltd and Jangalan Pty Ltd)
MDC (Market Direct Campers)
Dealers
Caravan World Chevallum QLD
River City RV QLD
Country Motors, Shoalhaven NSW
Green RV Gympie and Clontarf
Choice Caravans Melrose Park SA
montie said
11:34 AM Nov 26, 2016
First of all who are Lemon Laws of Australia?
I wasn't aware we had lemon laws in Aus. By whose authority were these companies placed on this list, other than the author.
If this is the person (author) I think it is there is big chance she will be sued for defamation very shortly.
Not sure where that might leave this forum from a legal standpoint for publishing the list.
She has already been removed from another forum for legal reasons.
There are no Lemon Laws in Australia....she made that bit up.
One of the manufacturers on that list is about to start legal proceedings.
Montie
Possum3 said
12:15 PM Nov 26, 2016
I think that is the reason for the site's existence they are lobbying ACCC to create "Lemon Laws" to enforce manufacturers and dealers to follow Australian Standards, to act ethically and produce quality products.
Any manufacturer or dealer on the list only has to honour their warranty to be taken of the list . Simples.
montie said
12:25 PM Nov 26, 2016
Possum3 wrote:
I think that is the reason for the site's existence they are lobbying ACCC to create "Lemon Laws" to enforce manufacturers and dealers to follow Australian Standards, to act ethically and produce quality products. Any manufacturer or dealer on the list only has to honour their warranty to be taken of the list . Simples.
Ah yes, but who decides what dealer or manufacturer goes on the list......she does!
She is about to be asked to prove her case in court. You can't be judge, jury and executioner.
There are no Lemon Laws in Australia.....that's why we have a Consumer Act where both sides of the story can be presented.....not just one!
Montie
Vince said
12:41 PM Nov 26, 2016
Reading through the article my conclusion would be that the industry needs to be regulated in a number of ways, especially in compliance to build under regulation.
having had a good look at VSB1 it is a bit of a minefield as to the many sub clauses, appendix and aside reading, however I don't find it contradictory or confusing.
The "Self Certification" is just one good reason to have manufacture under a regulatory body, that is a real worry.
The comments at the end of the article as always draws a number of different opinions.
Desert Dweller said
04:42 PM Nov 26, 2016
There are lots of dodgy rigs out there. Don't overload your rig by trying to take everything with you.
-- Edited by Desert Dweller on Saturday 26th of November 2016 07:02:01 PM
warhorse said
05:51 PM Nov 26, 2016
if you look on her facebook page there are many pics of caravans with major faults,there is another site called shonky caravan builders...dealers,both very enlightening if you are in the market for a new van. regards ray
adreamer said
06:19 PM Nov 26, 2016
warhorse wrote:
if you look on her facebook page there are many pics of caravans with major faults,there is another site called shonky caravan builders...dealers,both very enlightening if you are in the market for a new van. regards ray
Who is 'her', 'she'??????????
warhorse said
08:41 PM Nov 26, 2016
adreamer, her name is Tracy Leigh who started the facebook group,see possum3's post, re facebook site regards ray
Motherhen said
08:38 PM Sep 30, 2017
Does anyone have any news about how Tracy is going with Lotus's court case against her? A very brave lady.
TheHeaths said
09:51 PM Sep 30, 2017
These comments taken from the Facebook site I assume, are interesting, and a little disturbing, to me:
"DISCLAIMER The veracity of claims by members is not fully checked by the administration of Lemon Laws in Aus. This list is based on reports on the page with some evidence provided and an agreement of the rules of the site to be truthful."(my highlighting)
"List of reported manufacturers who have manufactured a lemon RV and who are alleged to have not abided by the Australian Consumer Law. List of reported dealers who have sold a lemon RV and who are alleged to have not abided by the Australian Consumer Law." (my highlighting)
So they put this up, but don't bother to check accuracy about the claims for the RV being a lemon, do not clarify if they have breached consumer law, and crucify the manufacturer, while supposedly taking the high moral ground.
As always in this type of situation, remember there are 3 stories. The complainants story, the defendants story and the true story, and generally all are a little different to each other!
Gday...
I offer the following article without comment, as most members of this forum would find very little surprising within.
However, take the time to read it all the way through - it is food for thought.
http://www.caravancampingsales.com.au/editorial/news/2016/is-your-caravan-legal-58254
Cheers - John
Also, too many without towing mirrors.
Hi John, very interesting article. Thank you , I wonder how many manufacturers would be willing to issue an updated compliance plate (not many) I would think .
Cheers Owen .
A very interesting read John
Up until now, I had never realised that, Caveat emptor or let the buyer beware, would have been applicable to new tugs and caravans
Also on the same web page, I noticed a link to an article about the new
That page was also interesting reading
This article reads like a paid advert to me , from what I have seen on this forum there have been more Jayco people going on about incorrect weights on their van than any others.
How many posters on this forum have heard of RVMAP?
It was formerly the RVMAA which was taken over by the national industry body the CRVA.
It is an accreditation program that manufacturers are required to adhere to to set compliancing standards for the vans they build. These manufacturers are subject to audit by RVMAP and are allowed to display the badge on their products.
Problem is the average punter has never heard of RVMAP so the badge means nothing to them when they go shopping for a new caravan. The CRVA spend large amounts of our dollars on fancy tourism ads where I believe they should be spending these dollars marketing the significance of the RVMAP badge and what it means to potential buyers. Buyers should be looking for this badge on any RV they are considering purchasing and if it's not there walk away.
The other problem is RVMAP have no enforcement powers to make manufacturers comply and recalcitrant builders thumb their noses at them. This would not be the case if the badge had some significance to potential buyers because it would hit these bodgy builders where it hurts most....their bank accounts.
Montie
-- Edited by montie on Saturday 26th of November 2016 08:44:36 AM
I will not be able to say I was un informed thats for sure.
Comment ( the distance between the gas cylinder and their regulator.)
Some time ago someone posted on this Forum or Candm the Gas Reg for caravans, I have tried to find this write up to no avail as I would like to see the answer to the above and also what (legal?) height the the Regulator should be as compared to the gas bottles.
Thanks
Peter
LEMON CARAVANS IN AUS
List of reported manufacturers who have manufactured a lemon RV and who
are alleged to have not abided by the Australian Consumer Law.
List of reported dealers who have sold a lemon RV and who are alleged to
have not abided by the Australian Consumer Law.
Version Two 17 November 2016
DISCLAIMER
The veracity of claims by members is not fully checked by the administration
of Lemon Laws in Aus. This list is based on reports on the page with some
evidence provided and an agreement of the rules of the site to be truthful.
These lists are intended to be a starting point for your own research into the
most suitable brand of RV for your purposes and the most suitable dealer to
purchase from. They are not definitive. There may be manufacturers not listed
who are also producing lemons. There may be dealers listed who are not
treating their customers properly under Australian Consumer Law. As always,
buyer beware.
If evidence is provided that a named manufacturer or dealer has voluntarily
entered into a satisfactory rectification program for all lemon owners of their
brand this will be noted. When all known lemon owners are satisfied, the
named manufacturer or dealer will be removed from the list.
RV manufacturers
Lotus Caravans
Sunland
Elite
JB
Crusader
Jayco
Masterpiece (Owned by former JB part owner and manager who reportedly
denied consumer rights. No known lemons in the MP brand reported to date.)
Euro
Free Spirit
Kimberley Group including Kruiser and Kamper
Goldstar
Avan/Golf
Otron
Retreat
Spaceland
Nova
Billabong
Coromal
Supreme
Avida
Millard
New Age
Track Trailer
Wirraway Motor Homes (Coastzone Pty Ltd and Jangalan Pty Ltd)
MDC (Market Direct Campers)
Dealers
Caravan World Chevallum QLD
River City RV QLD
Country Motors, Shoalhaven NSW
Green RV Gympie and Clontarf
Choice Caravans Melrose Park SA
I wasn't aware we had lemon laws in Aus. By whose authority were these companies placed on this list, other than the author.
If this is the person (author) I think it is there is big chance she will be sued for defamation very shortly.
Not sure where that might leave this forum from a legal standpoint for publishing the list.
Montie
I know where the source is.
She has already been removed from another forum for legal reasons.
There are no Lemon Laws in Australia....she made that bit up.
One of the manufacturers on that list is about to start legal proceedings.
Montie
Any manufacturer or dealer on the list only has to honour their warranty to be taken of the list . Simples.
Ah yes, but who decides what dealer or manufacturer goes on the list......she does!
She is about to be asked to prove her case in court. You can't be judge, jury and executioner.
There are no Lemon Laws in Australia.....that's why we have a Consumer Act where both sides of the story can be presented.....not just one!
Montie
having had a good look at VSB1 it is a bit of a minefield as to the many sub clauses, appendix and aside reading, however I don't find it contradictory or confusing.
The "Self Certification" is just one good reason to have manufacture under a regulatory body, that is a real worry.
The comments at the end of the article as always draws a number of different opinions.
There are lots of dodgy rigs out there. Don't overload your rig by trying to take everything with you.
-- Edited by Desert Dweller on Saturday 26th of November 2016 07:02:01 PM
Who is 'her', 'she'??????????
These comments taken from the Facebook site I assume, are interesting, and a little disturbing, to me:
"DISCLAIMER
The veracity of claims by members is not fully checked by the administration
of Lemon Laws in Aus. This list is based on reports on the page with some
evidence provided and an agreement of the rules of the site to be truthful."(my highlighting)
"List of reported manufacturers who have manufactured a lemon RV and who
are alleged to have not abided by the Australian Consumer Law.
List of reported dealers who have sold a lemon RV and who are alleged to
have not abided by the Australian Consumer Law." (my highlighting)
So they put this up, but don't bother to check accuracy about the claims for the RV being a lemon, do not clarify if they have breached consumer law, and crucify the manufacturer, while supposedly taking the high moral ground.
As always in this type of situation, remember there are 3 stories. The complainants story, the defendants story and the true story, and generally all are a little different to each other!