I have been thinking about this for a while..
In SA the state government introduced some time ago a levy (read tax) on boat registrations to provide funding for boat ramps and for upgrading some existing facilities.
The funds were applied for by local councils and were generally a dollar for dollar contribution.
If this applied to caravan and Rv rego's in each state it would provide some funding for upgrading, building and maintaining these areas.
Obviously the funding provided would need to go to sites other than council owned parks and some obvious policing of expenditures would be required.
Tenting would not be accepted in these areas.
The funding would not necessarily extend the time limitations either but mainly to supply reasonable facilities for overnight stops.
The levy would be fair at $10 to $20 and would not break the bank for most Rv ers.
Just my thoughts!!
brickies said
06:31 PM Nov 13, 2016
This program for Boat ramps is because the boat pay a registration to use the Waterways so the boat ramps give them access to the water , We pay registration for our caravan to use the roads not for camp sites .
rockylizard said
07:03 PM Nov 13, 2016
Gday...
I can understand your thought process Geoff. In some ways it could have merit ..... but I can see such a scheme attracting a fairly large 'admin cost' to all those needed to 'police' and/or monitor the scheme.
Restricting those who 'tent' it would be a bit of a problem and probably a bit discriminatory given those people have access to these 'rest areas' now in most cases.
On the other hand, we all pay registration for our vans/RVs and it does not cover the cost if we use van parks/national parks/state parks/farm stays/campgrounds etc over and above any registration fees on our vehicles.
So why is it such a problem for all us old phart RV-ers to simply pay a token $5/$10 to utilise these 'rest areas' at the time we need/visit them?
There is no such thing as a 'free' anything - someone has to pay for it. In the instances of these 'rest areas' then it is either ratepayers/local or state government etc.
Someone had to provide the land, any facilities on that land and the maintenance of those facilities. In many cases it is the local businesses covering the expenses of 'volunteers' out of what they hope will be increased business to their enterprises.
Cheers - John
Bryan said
10:24 PM Nov 13, 2016
With regards to tenting not being accepted, there's a lot of camper trailers out there, most of them can be described as tents on wheels who also pay rego fees. But its a good thought starter.
msg said
11:33 PM Nov 13, 2016
A FREE camper doesn't need facilities just a patch of ground to park on. If you need more, go to a caravan park and pay for them.
The Belmont Bear said
06:28 AM Nov 14, 2016
Sounds good but .In 1989 the NSW government introduced a 3x3 levy on fuel (3cents/litre for 3 years) as a way of funding much needed road repairs. Although not popular most motorists could accept it due to it only being short-term and there was going to be a real gain for them. In 2000 (11 years later) they stopped calling it the 3x3 levy and just absorbed it into the total fuel tax as it had become an essential part of the governments income stream. Don't give these guys ideas like levies otherwise the tax will last forever, it will continually increase and the government will conveniently forget what the money was originally meant to be used for. The other difficulty would be getting all the state and territory governments to administer this levy in the same way as this would be a ground breaking first for them if they did.
Dickodownunder said
08:02 AM Nov 14, 2016
I dont own a boat any more but I am lead to believe the levy is still being collected.
I am not personally in favour of levys generally but many small communities benefited greatly from the boat ramp facilities being provided in those country areas. Shops, accomodation outlets, etc gained from extra boaties visiting their regions. Thirty years ago SA seriously lacked safe boat ramp facilities in many regional areas.
I do understand that some vanners only stay in van parks and some do only require a patch of dirt to set up on but the ongoing argument between the trucking industry and camping nomads and others would be one area where this funding could be used.
Many councils welcome the caravanner / RVrs for the benefit of their local retailers and may just welcome the funding as well.
Many travellers will not just set up on a patch of dirt due to security reasons hence the reason why many all collect in a roadside stop or a truck parking bay.
While these parking bays may have been adequate thirty years ago, most are clearly inadequate today with the added volume of users or at least potential users, on the road.
Someone said there is no such thing as "free" camping and that is so true. Honesty boxes only work with the "honest" and the analogy of "user pays" comes to mind.
In my original post I may have went a little over the top re policing these areas bit with adequate facilities provided, policing may just become a lesser requirement.
Anyway there has been some interesting input so far...thank you.
Tony Bev said
07:21 PM Nov 14, 2016
I feel that it would be too hard for a levy on the rego of a RV, to be distributed towards free camps, and would eventually end up as a tax
Agree with rockylizard
There is no such thing as a 'free' anything - someone has to pay for it. In the instances of these 'rest areas' then it is either ratepayers/local or state government etc.
Someone had to provide the land, any facilities on that land and the maintenance of those facilities. In many cases it is the local businesses covering the expenses of 'volunteers' out of what they hope will be increased business to their enterprises.
My opinion is, so I could be wrong, is that if we are not prepared to spend, in the towns close to the free camps, then there will be no incentive to keep the free camps open
TheHeaths said
08:05 PM Nov 14, 2016
MSG,
free campers do require some minimal facilities to enjoy their lifestyle.
As you say, firstly a patch of ground to park on. Then a water refill facility, and a dump point to empty their black water/grey water tanks. They often require a laundry facility at some stage, especially if they do not have an on board washing machine. They also require a waste station/rubbish bins to get rid of their hard waste, and perhaps a recycling facility for those items that can be recycled.
So, while it is minimal, it is not correct to say they require nothing more than a patch of ground. All of those other facilities require someone to provide and maintain them.
I guess you will be going to caravan parks in future if you do not already use them.
Incidentally Dicko, I think the idea of some form of funding levy is good, but I think it would be very difficult, if not impossible to administer, due to the size of the country, the remoteness of many Freedom Camps, and the possible conflict with commercial interests, which doesn't generally exist with the boating levy in SA.
-- Edited by TheHeaths on Monday 14th of November 2016 08:09:57 PM
brickies said
08:22 PM Nov 14, 2016
Levy would be also unfair for those who use caravan park .
rockylizard said
08:27 PM Nov 14, 2016
TheHeaths wrote:
MSG,
free campers do require some minimal facilities to enjoy their lifestyle.
As you say, firstly a patch of ground to park on. Then a water refill facility, and a dump point to empty their black water/grey water tanks. They often require a laundry facility at some stage, especially if they do not have an on board washing machine. They also require a waste station/rubbish bins to get rid of their hard waste, and perhaps a recycling facility for those items that can be recycled.
~~~SNIP
Gday...
Interestingly, in reality, given how so many are set up these days, those facilities do not necessarily have to be attached to that 'camp spot'
Refill water next time you go to town. Most carry plastic water jerry cans. Or when you next pass through a town when moving on;
Use dump point in the nearby town. Ya could always dig a sensible hole for disposal. Or empty it when you next pass through a town when moving on;
Wash ya clobber by hand - it isn't that difficult actually;
Keep ya waste/rubbish in bags and dispose of when you go to town - or when you next pass through a town when moving on; and
Same for anything that could/should be recycled.
Over the years, like thousands of others, I have camped in the bush for weeks without the need for anything other than the piece of ground, a tree or two for some shade and even better if a lake or creek/river is nearby. I still do camp that way - except the canvas tent is now a big aluminum tent.
That's what camping is - getting away from it all and enjoying the 'basics' of life.
Cheers - John
Dickodownunder said
08:29 PM Nov 14, 2016
As was the boat levy for moored craft and for those who did not travel with their boats to regional areas and for those who were happy to launch their boats across a beach etc...
but, the levy was applied and the facilities were built and upgraded as required.
A levy is never popular but is generally fair if it targets users and potential users of the developed facility.
Dickodownunder said
08:32 PM Nov 14, 2016
Post above refers to brick IRS post.
Sorry on my phone with no edit function
Dickodownunder said
08:33 PM Nov 14, 2016
Post above refers to brickies post.
Sorry on my phone with no edit function
brickies said
08:37 PM Nov 14, 2016
Bush and out of town camping is always available to us , But the problem is lots of RV want to be able to camp on Coast line and townships for free and if they cant they jump up and down .
TheHeaths said
08:47 PM Nov 14, 2016
Rocky,
I agree that the facility does not need to be at the camp site, and a plot of ground is all that is required at the moment of the camping.
However, for the items I mentioned, ie water tank refilling, waste disposal, generally grey and black water removal, and often laundry, a facility is required by free campers at some location, at some time in their travels. At that location, someone has funded the provision and maintenance of the facility for the use of campers. That was the point of my post. To all intents and purposes, no one is truly totally self sufficient.
Some use caravan parks, for these services, others look for community provided facilities for water etc.
For MSG to make a comment that free campers require nothing more than a plot of ground is incorrect, and to say that if you do require more, stay in caravan parks and pay for them, is uncalled for. That is what prompted my comment.
Brickies, I also agree that those who use caravan parks exclusively would be impacted unfairly by a levy.
msg said
08:11 AM Nov 15, 2016
dickdownunder and the heaths. I think this thread deserves the same reaction it got on the other forum
TheHeaths said
08:19 AM Nov 15, 2016
Post deleted
-- Edited by TheHeaths on Tuesday 15th of November 2016 08:22:42 AM
Dickodownunder said
09:04 AM Nov 15, 2016
msg wrote:
dickdownunder and the heaths. I think this thread deserves the same reaction it got on the other forum
MSG thank you for your input.
I thought that the comments on here generally reflect the varying thoughts and views of many nomads and travellers.
My OP was not posted to insight any argument but rather to see how others thought.
I am as against more taxes as anyone else but all our levels of government in this country seem to manage to spend money (our taxes) on the projects with the "squeaky wheel" or where they think they will get the majority of support (votes).
We all post on various forums but we can not make anyone reply to those posts.....it is the individuals choice.
I must go over there and check.
Dickodownunder said
09:10 AM Nov 15, 2016
MSG
I just went over and checked My topic.
In my opinion the comment was a constructive opinion of the member....nothing wrong with that...after all it is a forum.
Gday...
I can understand your thought process Geoff. In some ways it could have merit ..... but I can see such a scheme attracting a fairly large 'admin cost' to all those needed to 'police' and/or monitor the scheme.
Restricting those who 'tent' it would be a bit of a problem and probably a bit discriminatory given those people have access to these 'rest areas' now in most cases.
On the other hand, we all pay registration for our vans/RVs and it does not cover the cost if we use van parks/national parks/state parks/farm stays/campgrounds etc over and above any registration fees on our vehicles.
So why is it such a problem for all us old phart RV-ers to simply pay a token $5/$10 to utilise these 'rest areas' at the time we need/visit them?
There is no such thing as a 'free' anything - someone has to pay for it. In the instances of these 'rest areas' then it is either ratepayers/local or state government etc.
Someone had to provide the land, any facilities on that land and the maintenance of those facilities. In many cases it is the local businesses covering the expenses of 'volunteers' out of what they hope will be increased business to their enterprises.
Cheers - John
With regards to tenting not being accepted, there's a lot of camper trailers out there, most of them can be described as tents on wheels who also pay rego fees. But its a good thought starter.
I am not personally in favour of levys generally but many small communities benefited greatly from the boat ramp facilities being provided in those country areas. Shops, accomodation outlets, etc gained from extra boaties visiting their regions. Thirty years ago SA seriously lacked safe boat ramp facilities in many regional areas.
I do understand that some vanners only stay in van parks and some do only require a patch of dirt to set up on but the ongoing argument between the trucking industry and camping nomads and others would be one area where this funding could be used.
Many councils welcome the caravanner / RVrs for the benefit of their local retailers and may just welcome the funding as well.
Many travellers will not just set up on a patch of dirt due to security reasons hence the reason why many all collect in a roadside stop or a truck parking bay.
While these parking bays may have been adequate thirty years ago, most are clearly inadequate today with the added volume of users or at least potential users, on the road.
Someone said there is no such thing as "free" camping and that is so true. Honesty boxes only work with the "honest" and the analogy of "user pays" comes to mind.
In my original post I may have went a little over the top re policing these areas bit with adequate facilities provided, policing may just become a lesser requirement.
Anyway there has been some interesting input so far...thank you.
I feel that it would be too hard for a levy on the rego of a RV, to be distributed towards free camps, and would eventually end up as a tax
Agree with rockylizard
My opinion is, so I could be wrong, is that if we are not prepared to spend, in the towns close to the free camps, then there will be no incentive to keep the free camps open
MSG,
free campers do require some minimal facilities to enjoy their lifestyle.
As you say, firstly a patch of ground to park on. Then a water refill facility, and a dump point to empty their black water/grey water tanks. They often require a laundry facility at some stage, especially if they do not have an on board washing machine. They also require a waste station/rubbish bins to get rid of their hard waste, and perhaps a recycling facility for those items that can be recycled.
So, while it is minimal, it is not correct to say they require nothing more than a patch of ground. All of those other facilities require someone to provide and maintain them.
I guess you will be going to caravan parks in future if you do not already use them.
Incidentally Dicko, I think the idea of some form of funding levy is good, but I think it would be very difficult, if not impossible to administer, due to the size of the country, the remoteness of many Freedom Camps, and the possible conflict with commercial interests, which doesn't generally exist with the boating levy in SA.
-- Edited by TheHeaths on Monday 14th of November 2016 08:09:57 PM
Gday...
Interestingly, in reality, given how so many are set up these days, those facilities do not necessarily have to be attached to that 'camp spot'
Over the years, like thousands of others, I have camped in the bush for weeks without the need for anything other than the piece of ground, a tree or two for some shade and even better if a lake or creek/river is nearby. I still do camp that way - except the canvas tent is now a big aluminum tent.
That's what camping is - getting away from it all and enjoying the 'basics' of life.
Cheers - John
I agree that the facility does not need to be at the camp site, and a plot of ground is all that is required at the moment of the camping.
However, for the items I mentioned, ie water tank refilling, waste disposal, generally grey and black water removal, and often laundry, a facility is required by free campers at some location, at some time in their travels. At that location, someone has funded the provision and maintenance of the facility for the use of campers. That was the point of my post. To all intents and purposes, no one is truly totally self sufficient.
Some use caravan parks, for these services, others look for community provided facilities for water etc.
For MSG to make a comment that free campers require nothing more than a plot of ground is incorrect, and to say that if you do require more, stay in caravan parks and pay for them, is uncalled for. That is what prompted my comment.
Brickies, I also agree that those who use caravan parks exclusively would be impacted unfairly by a levy.
Post deleted
-- Edited by TheHeaths on Tuesday 15th of November 2016 08:22:42 AM
MSG thank you for your input.
I thought that the comments on here generally reflect the varying thoughts and views of many nomads and travellers.
My OP was not posted to insight any argument but rather to see how others thought.
I am as against more taxes as anyone else but all our levels of government in this country seem to manage to spend money (our taxes) on the projects with the "squeaky wheel" or where they think they will get the majority of support (votes).
We all post on various forums but we can not make anyone reply to those posts.....it is the individuals choice.
I must go over there and check.
MSG
I just went over and checked My topic.
In my opinion the comment was a constructive opinion of the member....nothing wrong with that...after all it is a forum.