We are needing to get a gas cert. and safety cert. to sell our 2007 Jayco Sterling that we had purchased in Qld in Dec 2012. When we purchased it, it already had a 12v/240v HWS in the front boot along with the gas bottle attached to all the gear eg;regulator etc. Wondering where I can find out when the rule came in about not having anything electrical in the same area as the gas connections. We were very green and thought it was all legal then. Just not sure when the rules changed.
Kim
madaboutled said
08:16 PM Nov 10, 2016
Rather than wade through all the gas reg's, if it was me I'd just book it in for a Gas cert. and see if anything comes of it. You might be worrying over nothing.
adrian foley said
08:30 PM Nov 10, 2016
The regulations don't say anything about not being allowed in the boot area.As long as the unit is installed to manufactures specs and directly wired I cannot see you having any problems.The areas I would be looking at would be ventilation,switching,pressure testing and fire proofing etc.regards Adrian.
macka17 said
09:09 PM Nov 10, 2016
Email or ring, or visit. Registry dep't,
They'll tell you OR point you to wherever.
rickeng said
01:10 AM Nov 11, 2016
I was told by an "expert" that My 240volt electrics would have to run through an r.c.d (earth leakage detector) switch but for that to work, I would have to drive an earth pin three feet into the ground and connect it to the vehicle every time I plugged in the power, or am I wrong?............Rick
gandk said
07:55 AM Nov 11, 2016
It is actually in the Jayco yard as we speak trying to get the gas cert. They are the same ones who sold it to us with the HWS next to gas bottle and are now saying it has to be moved to get a gas cert. They are saying the regulations have "probably" changed since then (Dec 2012) which they may have. That's why I am trying to find out when the regs changed other wise I feel they should pay for the upgrade as it shouldn't have been sold like it in the first place. I did go and see the rego dept and found the person totally unhelpful. Surprise surprise.
The gas compliance fellow says not even allowed on other side of partition.
oldbloke said
12:33 AM Nov 12, 2016
At bottom of page 3 of the gas guide says 1,5 meters from ignition source, so should be ok to relocate bottle to far side of the boot.Otherwise move to draw bar.
I would be having words with the dealer. These requirements hardly ever change. Perhaps go else where.
Lancelot Link said
02:41 AM Nov 12, 2016
Try suggesting fitting a gas fuse, all new caravans require one apparently.
-- Edited by Lancelot Link on Saturday 12th of November 2016 02:54:04 AM
adrian foley said
08:13 PM Nov 14, 2016
If it was installed to regulations at the time and has not been altered in any way regulations are not grand fathered.It is a moot point by dealer. regards Adrian.
adrian foley said
08:21 PM Nov 14, 2016
Ignition source to me would be a naked flame,electrical switching etc .The question that needs to be asked is the hws electrical connections sealed or insulated !
gandk said
06:37 AM Nov 15, 2016
Good point Adrian. Will look into that re: no actual ignition source as it is a sealed unit.
adrian foley said
08:34 PM Nov 15, 2016
If it is a sealed unit I would suggest the dealer is talking BS.He is not the authorised person who does the inspection.I have been personally involved in the gas industry as an inspector,trainer and licensed gafitter for nearly 40 years.The fact that it is a sealed unit means that it is separate from the boot.A sealed unit is not considered a source of ignition in any installation domestic commercial or industrial.In queensland the dept of minerals and energy are the state inspectors. regards Adrian.
Retiredatlast said
11:05 PM Nov 15, 2016
Hi All
All auto gas installations in most states require the gas cylinder and fittings around it to be sealed from other parts of the car or vehicle and vented to the outside atmosphere. This is usually a hole in the floor of the gas installation with a short length of pipe to the outside. This is because LPG if it leaks, is heavier and will dissipate through the hole. LPG cannot build up. My campervan is set up like this.
This is the same for cars with a LPG tank in the boot. They are sealed from the boot or internal parts of the car and vented externally. SO LEAKS ESCAPE.
In a van or campervan piping then goes to the stove or fridge. It is still a good idea to vent these areas.
However if you are talking about have car or van wiring or any electrical fittings (ignition sources) inside a sealed LPG unit or box, for LPG that is a big "NO NO" as any LPG leaks can find a spark, it will explode causing massive damage. LPG cylinders, hot water services "must be" separate and on their own vented to the outside atmosphere.
One 9kg LPG cylinder has more than enough gas to blow a house to pieces and has done so before. So for a van nothing would be left. LPG gas leaking under a depression with a house on top found a ignition source in Victoria, lifted the timber house up one meter and then dropped it. Such is the power of LPG mixed with oxygen.
And for Rick re the RCD question.
For a RCD to work properly you have to have an earth. Yes you are correct. They trip out at 30mA. Enough to give you a "boot" but not kill you.
If you do not have an earth it will not work as it has to see equal currents flowing in the active and neutral wires at all times or if it passes through you to earth it senses that its not equal and turns off.
However caravan parks and the like have earth leakage by law and will trip off. The same setup as your house.
However if you have a small generator plugged into your van 240v inlet socket its a different matter as small generators have what is called a "floating voltage" that is there is no earth. So you have to grab hold of the active and neutral wires at the same time to get a shock. So installing a earth leakage in this instance is a waste of money.
Former Safework SA Inspector and Dangerous Goods Inspector and still an electronics hobbyist. Retirement is great !!
CC Bear said
02:28 AM Nov 16, 2016
Are you a resident of Queensland and what area ? Each state is different. In Queensld you will have to obtain a RWS and gas certificate.
My van was done by a mobile bloke who does all areas of the SEQ. If interested PM for phone number and you could ask him.
adrian foley said
08:31 PM Nov 16, 2016
Where does it state in the gasfitting regulations that it cannot be installed there.A sealed unit is not regarded as a source of ignition. Regards Adrian.
adrian foley said
08:37 PM Nov 16, 2016
Regs are slighty different for Caravans.They come under the non propulsive purposes.AS/NZS5601.2:2013.
Peter_n_Margaret said
06:46 PM Nov 17, 2016
Retiredatlast wrote:
However if you have a small generator plugged into your van 240v inlet socket its a different matter as small generators have what is called a "floating voltage" that is there is no earth. So you have to grab hold of the active and neutral wires at the same time to get a shock. So installing a earth leakage in this instance is a waste of money.
In this case (and in the case of an inverter) you need an RVD (Residual Voltage Devise).
Hi All
We are needing to get a gas cert. and safety cert. to sell our 2007 Jayco Sterling that we had purchased in Qld in Dec 2012. When we purchased it, it already had a 12v/240v HWS in the front boot along with the gas bottle attached to all the gear eg;regulator etc. Wondering where I can find out when the rule came in about not having anything electrical in the same area as the gas connections. We were very green and thought it was all legal then. Just not sure when the rules changed.
Kim
Rather than wade through all the gas reg's, if it was me I'd just book it in for a Gas cert. and see if anything comes of it. You might be worrying over nothing.
The regulations don't say anything about not being allowed in the boot area.As long as the unit is installed to manufactures specs and directly wired I cannot see you having any problems.The areas I would be looking at would be ventilation,switching,pressure testing and fire proofing etc.regards Adrian.
They'll tell you OR point you to wherever.
It is actually in the Jayco yard as we speak trying to get the gas cert. They are the same ones who sold it to us with the HWS next to gas bottle and are now saying it has to be moved to get a gas cert. They are saying the regulations have "probably" changed since then (Dec 2012) which they may have. That's why I am trying to find out when the regs changed other wise I feel they should pay for the upgrade as it shouldn't have been sold like it in the first place. I did go and see the rego dept and found the person totally unhelpful. Surprise surprise.
Shift the gas bottle to the other side of the partision
Dragonfly1
This contains info that may help.
The gas compliance fellow says not even allowed on other side of partition.
I would be having words with the dealer. These requirements hardly ever change. Perhaps go else where.
Try suggesting fitting a gas fuse, all new caravans require one apparently.
-- Edited by Lancelot Link on Saturday 12th of November 2016 02:54:04 AM
If it was installed to regulations at the time and has not been altered in any way regulations are not grand fathered.It is a moot point by dealer. regards Adrian.
Ignition source to me would be a naked flame,electrical switching etc .The question that needs to be asked is the hws electrical connections sealed or insulated !
Good point Adrian. Will look into that re: no actual ignition source as it is a sealed unit.
If it is a sealed unit I would suggest the dealer is talking BS.He is not the authorised person who does the inspection.I have been personally involved in the gas industry as an inspector,trainer and licensed gafitter for nearly 40 years.The fact that it is a sealed unit means that it is separate from the boot.A sealed unit is not considered a source of ignition in any installation domestic commercial or industrial.In queensland the dept of minerals and energy are the state inspectors. regards Adrian.
Hi All
All auto gas installations in most states require the gas cylinder and fittings around it to be sealed from other parts of the car or vehicle and vented to the outside atmosphere. This is usually a hole in the floor of the gas installation with a short length of pipe to the outside. This is because LPG if it leaks, is heavier and will dissipate through the hole. LPG cannot build up. My campervan is set up like this.
This is the same for cars with a LPG tank in the boot. They are sealed from the boot or internal parts of the car and vented externally. SO LEAKS ESCAPE.
In a van or campervan piping then goes to the stove or fridge. It is still a good idea to vent these areas.
However if you are talking about have car or van wiring or any electrical fittings (ignition sources) inside a sealed LPG unit or box, for LPG that is a big "NO NO" as any LPG leaks can find a spark, it will explode causing massive damage. LPG cylinders, hot water services "must be" separate and on their own vented to the outside atmosphere.
One 9kg LPG cylinder has more than enough gas to blow a house to pieces and has done so before. So for a van nothing would be left. LPG gas leaking under a depression with a house on top found a ignition source in Victoria, lifted the timber house up one meter and then dropped it. Such is the power of LPG mixed with oxygen.
And for Rick re the RCD question.
For a RCD to work properly you have to have an earth. Yes you are correct. They trip out at 30mA. Enough to give you a "boot" but not kill you.
If you do not have an earth it will not work as it has to see equal currents flowing in the active and neutral wires at all times or if it passes through you to earth it senses that its not equal and turns off.
However caravan parks and the like have earth leakage by law and will trip off. The same setup as your house.
However if you have a small generator plugged into your van 240v inlet socket its a different matter as small generators have what is called a "floating voltage" that is there is no earth. So you have to grab hold of the active and neutral wires at the same time to get a shock. So installing a earth leakage in this instance is a waste of money.
Former Safework SA Inspector and Dangerous Goods Inspector and still an electronics hobbyist. Retirement is great !!
My van was done by a mobile bloke who does all areas of the SEQ. If interested PM for phone number and you could ask him.
Where does it state in the gasfitting regulations that it cannot be installed there.A sealed unit is not regarded as a source of ignition. Regards Adrian.
Regs are slighty different for Caravans.They come under the non propulsive purposes.AS/NZS5601.2:2013.
In this case (and in the case of an inverter) you need an RVD (Residual Voltage Devise).
Cheers,
Peter