Earlier in this section, there is a question about attaching panels to the top of a van. These were screwed via aluminium brackets.
I was in at the local "Road Track Marine" store yesterday & they have stick-on HD plastic corners plus side pieces. They are designed to not block the wind, to overcome the need to drill the roof & not to pull off . See their new catalogue page 194 (part numbers TES151, 154 & 157. The panels are screwed to the mounts BUT could one trust the glue not to give way in the heat of the tropics?
Warren
robol said
07:20 PM Nov 6, 2016
Or, could you trust the surface the glue is stuck to ??
Mine are bolted.
Rob.
Colin Penrose said
02:03 PM Nov 7, 2016
I stuck my 200w panel to the roof with the plastic mounts with Sikaflex 11 FC. Has not moved and the Sikaflex is not cracked. Just make sure the surfaces are clean. I used a degreasing agent that leaves NO residue and also scuffed the roof surface where the mounts were to fit. Col P
macka17 said
05:52 PM Nov 7, 2016
All my panels are sikaflexed to Ally Angle Ally angle sika'd to roof.
Then all 4 connection angles are pop rivetted to each other.
First decent wind. OR cyclone will float glued on only ones.
Real quick I reckon.
I for one, not game to find out.
T1 Terry said
07:10 PM Nov 7, 2016
As you are fitting solar to a pop top I'm assuming you are using the light weight flexible panels rather than the heavy weight rigid panels. Semi flexible panels have come a long way in the last 10 to 12 yrs, the 60w on the roof of my Kombi poptop are still there, haven't blown off, but they take up near the whole roof area. The new 100w panels are small enough to get 300w in the same area and seem to work really well. There have been a few issues with some of the flexible panels, aluminium backed ones were a complete failure due to differences in expansion, some had issues with surface clouding but a coat of polish when new appears to have solved that problem, the latest type are a bit bigger and have 8 eyelets rather than 6 and we are trialling a totally different fixing method to allow for easy removal if needed yet plenty of ventilation and insulation to prevent the heat passing through the roof, I guess it will be 12 mths or more before we know if we have a winner or not as most of the panel problems appeared at around the 12 mth mark.
Only had one blow off, the cables kept it attached :lol: This was the first lesson regarding what glue to use, Sikaflex 11FC lets go at 60*C and the semi flexible panels can get up over 70*C, changed glue type and later the mounting method and have had no further blow offs and we have some real big winds at times in Mannum SA, they even blew power cable towers over but the panels remained attached :lol:
T1 Terry
Peter_n_Margaret said
09:00 PM Nov 7, 2016
Sikaflex 11FC has a maximum service temperature of 80C, so it is quite adequate for Warren's application. www.arconsupplies.co.uk/uploads/pdfs/sikaflex-11fc.pdf
Flexible panels are different proposition and I would suggest something with a higher heat capability plus care needs to be used in order to avoid differential expansion problems if they are glued directly to the roof. The glue joint must have a minimum thickness that allows flexibility for expansion and contraction a temperature range of at least -20C to 80C+.
Cheers,
Peter
madaboutled said
08:41 PM Nov 10, 2016
Warren, being a pop top if the top is lifted with gas struts you may need to get the struts re-gassed to cater for the additional weight of the panels.
As others have said, sikaflex is ideal for gluing down solar panels, my 3 panels are fixed down with sikaflex & we've been right round the counrty is all sorts of conditions. Also you don't need to buy brackets, you can easily make your own with an 1800mm lenght of 50 x 50 x 1.6mm Aluminium Angle.
Simply cut the angle into 6 300mm lengths. For the corners, cut a 45 degree mitre out of the middle of four pieces then bend them to a right angle. Position the brackets on the panel so there's about a 20mm gap between the panel frame edge and the roof, (some offcuts of 2x1 pine is ideal to create the spacing) then fix the brackets to the panel frame with some rivets. Hope this makes sense.
Regards Steve.
-- Edited by madaboutled on Thursday 10th of November 2016 08:42:52 PM
T1 Terry said
01:54 PM Nov 11, 2016
As I said in the previous post, Sikaflex 11FC is not suitable for glueing semi flexible panels and this comes from actual experience, been doing this stuff for fair while now. Having said that, Sika 11FC is fine for mounting aluminium angle to the roof for mounting rigid solar panels, the exposed surface does yellow in the sun but only an issue in regards to looks, it doesn't effect the holding power. If you want a glue that doesn't yellow then Simson 70-03 or Selleys Armourflex or Sudal T Rex, all excellent adhesives but the latter ones don't yellow and withstand higher temps. If proof is required regarding Sika11Fc letting go in the heat, I can attach photos
T1 Terry
madaboutled said
08:22 PM Nov 11, 2016
T1 Terry wrote:
As I said in the previous post, Sikaflex 11FC is not suitable for glueing semi flexible panels and this comes from actual experience, been doing this stuff for fair while now. Having said that, Sika 11FC is fine for mounting aluminium angle to the roof for mounting rigid solar panels, the exposed surface does yellow in the sun but only an issue in regards to looks, it doesn't effect the holding power. If you want a glue that doesn't yellow then Simson 70-03 or Selleys Armourflex or Sudal T Rex, all excellent adhesives but the latter ones don't yellow and withstand higher temps. If proof is required regarding Sika11Fc letting go in the heat, I can attach photos
T1 Terry
Just for clarification, I used Sikaflex 252
macka17 said
05:49 PM Nov 12, 2016
Jeeez.
Why worry about whether your panels will blow off or not.
Just put a coupla rivets along each side and go do something else.
T1 Terry said
09:46 AM Nov 13, 2016
macka17 wrote:
Jeeez.
Why worry about whether your panels will blow off or not. Just put a coupla rivets along each side and go do something else.
The semi flexible panels aren't real good after you put a rivet through them macka :lol:
Peter_n_Margaret said
09:41 PM Nov 13, 2016
Terry, the OP never mentioned semi flexible panels. The mounting parts he proposes are only suitable for conventional panels and Sikaflex 11FC is quite suitable for the plastic mounts for them.
Cheers,
Peter
T1 Terry said
09:54 AM Nov 14, 2016
Peter_n_Margaret wrote:
Terry, the OP never mentioned semi flexible panels. The mounting parts he proposes are only suitable for conventional panels and Sikaflex 11FC is quite suitable for the plastic mounts for them.
Cheers, Peter
Agreed Peter, I was posting about what I had posted regarding the light weight panels eliminating the weight problem and then went on to recommend suitable adhesives for light weight panel mounting.
T1 Terry
Aus-Kiwi said
12:09 PM Nov 14, 2016
I guess if it's a flexable roof ? I would fit plastic or flexable hard wearing strips each side of roof . Then stainless bolt or screw with plenty of sealant . Or an alloy sub frame to attack it to ? More than one way to skin a cat .
Dick0 said
06:39 PM Nov 14, 2016
Hi Warren,
I have 2 x 200w panels on my pop top roof.
I used 40mm aluminium angle. 4 x 20cm bracket lengths on sides front and rear and 2 x 10cm bracket lengths at side centres.
They are tech screwed to the panels and glued to the roof with Sikaflex 221, which is a newer Sika adhesive/sealant and advised to use by a Sika rep.
Before gluing to roof I drilled 2 x 1cm holes in brackets on glue side so when glued the adhesive comes through the holes and you get a firmer bond.
Also, I cleaned the roof surface prior to fitting by using soapy water and steel wool lightly rubbing surface until fibreglass surface clean and then rinsed off.
A 30mm gap is under panels for ventilation.
No problem!
I can supply pics if you want.
Warren-Pat_01 said
04:35 PM Nov 16, 2016
Hello & thanks to everyone who responded to my query.
I raised the point of buying the Sikaflex product with my local hardware store (for those in Townsville, it is Leather's at Aitkenvale). Peter suggested a new item that all of the tradies are raving about called Soudal Fix All. When one looks up their website soudal.com.au/fixall/ , it is amazing & can even be applied under water.
Sikaflex 11FC (the FC is for fast cure) is $19 at the "Green Shed", Peter Leather was slightly cheaper but the Fix All was $14.95 minus the "local" or regular "shopper's" discount.
I've bought some plastic mounts from Jaycar/RTM & will glue them to the roof after using a wax & grease remover.
Incidentally I searched high & low in the Green Shed looking for some nylon clips to secure some items in the van's boot - none found. So I checked in at Leather's Hardware - yes they had them & I bought all that I needed (two sizes).
PS - We tried the van out in Cairns last weekend. Everything worked ok BUT I have some not-so-nice feelings about what is in (or is not) the roof!! Pat noticed a LED light "flashing" so I removed it only to find a very thin layer of plywood for the ceiling, some insulation wool & a "plastic"(??) skin on the outside. The flashing LED was the sunlight coming down through the roof & being interrupted by a palm frond!!
I discovered with a stud finder that there is some timber in the roof near the TV antenna but elsewhere??
Any other comments on Jayco pop-top roofs?
Warren
Tony Bev said
05:28 PM Nov 16, 2016
I can not comment on the Jayco pop top roof
But...
I can comment on the 2006 Jayco Conquest roof
The roof is made up of some sort of fibreglass, while removing my roof aerial to turn the base, after removing the screws, I thought that I had managed to cut all the adhesive which held it on When giving the aerial base a good tug, and leverage with a paint scraper, some (about 150mm square) piece of laminated fibreglass, came with it.
The ceiling is made of some sort of stiff cardboard - In between the ceiling and roof is about 40mm of nothing - There is some wood which looks like a bit of an old pine pallet, supporting the air conditioner I can see no other support in the roof
To fit my solar panel, I made a frame which connects to the edge of the roof, as I do not believe that my roof is actually strong enough to support the solar panel, while travelling at the legal speed, in windy conditions
The two metre long 40x40x6 aluminium angle, on both edges are screwed and plenty of Sikaflex 11 FC holding them to the roof
Jaahn said
05:31 PM Nov 16, 2016
Warren-Pat_01 wrote:
Hello & thanks to everyone who responded to my query.
I raised the point of buying the Sikaflex product with my local hardware store (for those in Townsville, it is Leather's at Aitkenvale). Peter suggested a new item that all of the tradies are raving about called Soudal Fix All. When one looks up their website soudal.com.au/fixall/ , it is amazing & can even be applied under water. Sikaflex 11FC (the FC is for fast cure) is $19 at the "Green Shed", Peter Leather was slightly cheaper but the Fix All was $14.95 minus the "local" or regular "shopper's" discount. ----------- Any other comments on Jayco pop-top roofs?
Warren
Hi Warren-Pat_01
Forgive me but perhaps the only thing I have learnt over my time is to ignore the latest item everyone is raving about, and buy the tried and trusted one. While you may have absolute trust in Peter has he actually used that stuff. Or used anything to stick solar panels down. Otherwise it is just second hand trade talk, and you are part of the testing team. Cheaper too is not a recommendation for me either when I never want to have to look at the panels ever again !
Just my two cents worth !
Jaahn
-- Edited by Jaahn on Wednesday 16th of November 2016 05:34:22 PM
macka17 said
09:39 PM Nov 16, 2016
Sorry.
But I reckon. Peace of mind......
Half a doz holes drilled. half a doz pops and you KNOWWWWWWW.
It ain't gonna come off.
Why all the fuss. Do it right. Do it ONCE...
ALL Panels are supposed to have breathing space t'ween it and surface below.
to prevent overheating. and HENCE.. Loss of output. It does happen.
Don't know about those flexy ones. But do know. after the "rage" on them settled down
yrs ago in the live aboard yachtties (me incl)
I never noticed too many around after first couple of yrs or so.
Warren-Pat_01 said
10:37 PM Nov 16, 2016
Jaahn, as I said the tradies working at the Stockland Shopping Centre in Townsville are raving about this stuff. Did you look up the website & video?
It is guaranteed to hold 320Kg over a 10cm square panel. The section of "roof" I saw on Saturday afternoon definitely wouldn't hold screws/bolts unless they were cyclone bolts like my house has - where the roof is bolted to the foundation.
macka, I thought about the flexi panels but could not see how I could mount them securely to the front or top of the van. My panel that I'm adding to the roof has 25mm between the bottom of the frame to the top of the van so overheating should not be an issue.
Cheers
T1 Terry said
05:17 PM Nov 19, 2016
Soudal also make a product called T Rex, amazing stuff and it comes in clear/transparent. The Soudal T Rex and the Selleys Armourflex and the Simson 70-03 far exceed the Sikaflex 11FC as an adhesive and I've used a lot of both products. My big bus conversion has the outside skin and walls attached with 11FC, never had a problem.... till I came to South Aust, it's a lot hotter over here and some of the 11FC has let go and I have had a few semi flexible solar panels let go of their under skirt Lexan Thermoclear, but I haven't had any of those attached with the other 3 products let go.... yet ;)
T1 Terry
mr glassies said
07:54 PM Nov 19, 2016
How it stick to ya arm hairs terry hmmmmm. hahahahahahahahahahahahahah lmdo
Dibs
Dick0 said
08:25 PM Feb 19, 2017
Warren-Pat_01 wrote:
Hello & thanks to everyone who responded to my query.
I raised the point of buying the Sikaflex product with my local hardware store (for those in Townsville, it is Leather's at Aitkenvale). Peter suggested a new item that all of the tradies are raving about called Soudal Fix All. When one looks up their website soudal.com.au/fixall/ , it is amazing & can even be applied under water. Sikaflex 11FC (the FC is for fast cure) is $19 at the "Green Shed", Peter Leather was slightly cheaper but the Fix All was $14.95 minus the "local" or regular "shopper's" discount.
I've bought some plastic mounts from Jaycar/RTM & will glue them to the roof after using a wax & grease remover.
Incidentally I searched high & low in the Green Shed looking for some nylon clips to secure some items in the van's boot - none found. So I checked in at Leather's Hardware - yes they had them & I bought all that I needed (two sizes).
PS - We tried the van out in Cairns last weekend. Everything worked ok BUT I have some not-so-nice feelings about what is in (or is not) the roof!! Pat noticed a LED light "flashing" so I removed it only to find a very thin layer of plywood for the ceiling, some insulation wool & a "plastic"(??) skin on the outside. The flashing LED was the sunlight coming down through the roof & being interrupted by a palm frond!! I discovered with a stud finder that there is some timber in the roof near the TV antenna but elsewhere??
Any other comments on Jayco pop-top roofs?
Warren
I have a Jayco Freedom pop top.
When I drilled the cable hole for the solar cable I found the roof cavity to be a solid polystyrene type insulation.
Earlier in this section, there is a question about attaching panels to the top of a van. These were screwed via aluminium brackets.
I was in at the local "Road Track Marine" store yesterday & they have stick-on HD plastic corners plus side pieces. They are designed to not block the wind, to overcome the need to drill the roof & not to pull off . See their new catalogue page 194 (part numbers TES151, 154 & 157. The panels are screwed to the mounts BUT could one trust the glue not to give way in the heat of the tropics?
Warren
Mine are bolted.
Rob.
I stuck my 200w panel to the roof with the plastic mounts with Sikaflex 11 FC. Has not moved and the Sikaflex is not cracked. Just make sure the surfaces are clean. I used a degreasing agent that leaves NO residue and also scuffed the roof surface where the mounts were to fit. Col P
Then all 4 connection angles are pop rivetted to each other.
First decent wind. OR cyclone will float glued on only ones.
Real quick I reckon.
I for one, not game to find out.
Only had one blow off, the cables kept it attached :lol: This was the first lesson regarding what glue to use, Sikaflex 11FC lets go at 60*C and the semi flexible panels can get up over 70*C, changed glue type and later the mounting method and have had no further blow offs and we have some real big winds at times in Mannum SA, they even blew power cable towers over but the panels remained attached :lol:
T1 Terry
www.arconsupplies.co.uk/uploads/pdfs/sikaflex-11fc.pdf
Flexible panels are different proposition and I would suggest something with a higher heat capability plus care needs to be used in order to avoid differential expansion problems if they are glued directly to the roof. The glue joint must have a minimum thickness that allows flexibility for expansion and contraction a temperature range of at least -20C to 80C+.
Cheers,
Peter
Warren, being a pop top if the top is lifted with gas struts you may need to get the struts re-gassed to cater for the additional weight of the panels.
As others have said, sikaflex is ideal for gluing down solar panels, my 3 panels are fixed down with sikaflex & we've been right round the counrty is all sorts of conditions. Also you don't need to buy brackets, you can easily make your own with an 1800mm lenght of 50 x 50 x 1.6mm Aluminium Angle.
Simply cut the angle into 6 300mm lengths. For the corners, cut a 45 degree mitre out of the middle of four pieces then bend them to a right angle. Position the brackets on the panel so there's about a 20mm gap between the panel frame edge and the roof, (some offcuts of 2x1 pine is ideal to create the spacing) then fix the brackets to the panel frame with some rivets. Hope this makes sense.
Regards Steve.
-- Edited by madaboutled on Thursday 10th of November 2016 08:42:52 PM
T1 Terry
Just for clarification, I used Sikaflex 252
Why worry about whether your panels will blow off or not.
Just put a coupla rivets along each side and go do something else.
The semi flexible panels aren't real good after you put a rivet through them macka :lol:
Cheers,
Peter
Agreed Peter, I was posting about what I had posted regarding the light weight panels eliminating the weight problem and then went on to recommend suitable adhesives for light weight panel mounting.
T1 Terry
Hi Warren,
I have 2 x 200w panels on my pop top roof.
I used 40mm aluminium angle. 4 x 20cm bracket lengths on sides front and rear and 2 x 10cm bracket lengths at side centres.
They are tech screwed to the panels and glued to the roof with Sikaflex 221, which is a newer Sika adhesive/sealant and advised to use by a Sika rep.
Before gluing to roof I drilled 2 x 1cm holes in brackets on glue side so when glued the adhesive comes through the holes and you get a firmer bond.
Also, I cleaned the roof surface prior to fitting by using soapy water and steel wool lightly rubbing surface until fibreglass surface clean and then rinsed off.
A 30mm gap is under panels for ventilation.
No problem!
I can supply pics if you want.
I raised the point of buying the Sikaflex product with my local hardware store (for those in Townsville, it is Leather's at Aitkenvale). Peter suggested a new item that all of the tradies are raving about called Soudal Fix All. When one looks up their website soudal.com.au/fixall/ , it is amazing & can even be applied under water.
Sikaflex 11FC (the FC is for fast cure) is $19 at the "Green Shed", Peter Leather was slightly cheaper but the Fix All was $14.95 minus the "local" or regular "shopper's" discount.
I've bought some plastic mounts from Jaycar/RTM & will glue them to the roof after using a wax & grease remover.
Incidentally I searched high & low in the Green Shed looking for some nylon clips to secure some items in the van's boot - none found. So I checked in at Leather's Hardware - yes they had them & I bought all that I needed (two sizes).
PS - We tried the van out in Cairns last weekend. Everything worked ok BUT I have some not-so-nice feelings about what is in (or is not) the roof!! Pat noticed a LED light "flashing" so I removed it only to find a very thin layer of plywood for the ceiling, some insulation wool & a "plastic"(??) skin on the outside. The flashing LED was the sunlight coming down through the roof & being interrupted by a palm frond!!
I discovered with a stud finder that there is some timber in the roof near the TV antenna but elsewhere??
Any other comments on Jayco pop-top roofs?
Warren
I can not comment on the Jayco pop top roof
But...
I can comment on the 2006 Jayco Conquest roof
The roof is made up of some sort of fibreglass, while removing my roof aerial to turn the base, after removing the screws, I thought that I had managed to cut all the adhesive which held it on
When giving the aerial base a good tug, and leverage with a paint scraper, some (about 150mm square) piece of laminated fibreglass, came with it.
The ceiling is made of some sort of stiff cardboard - In between the ceiling and roof is about 40mm of nothing - There is some wood which looks like a bit of an old pine pallet, supporting the air conditioner
I can see no other support in the roof
To fit my solar panel, I made a frame which connects to the edge of the roof, as I do not believe that my roof is actually strong enough to support the solar panel, while travelling at the legal speed, in windy conditions
The two metre long 40x40x6 aluminium angle, on both edges are screwed and plenty of Sikaflex 11 FC holding them to the roof
Hi Warren-Pat_01
Forgive me but perhaps the only thing I have learnt over my time is to ignore the latest item everyone is raving about, and buy the tried and trusted one. While you may have absolute trust in Peter has he actually used that stuff. Or used anything to stick solar panels down. Otherwise it is just second hand trade talk, and you are part of the testing team. Cheaper too is not a recommendation for me either when I never want to have to look at the panels ever again !
Just my two cents worth !
Jaahn
-- Edited by Jaahn on Wednesday 16th of November 2016 05:34:22 PM
But I reckon. Peace of mind......
Half a doz holes drilled. half a doz pops and you KNOWWWWWWW.
It ain't gonna come off.
Why all the fuss. Do it right. Do it ONCE...
ALL Panels are supposed to have breathing space t'ween it and surface below.
to prevent overheating. and HENCE.. Loss of output. It does happen.
Don't know about those flexy ones. But do know. after the "rage" on them settled down
yrs ago in the live aboard yachtties (me incl)
I never noticed too many around after first couple of yrs or so.
It is guaranteed to hold 320Kg over a 10cm square panel. The section of "roof" I saw on Saturday afternoon definitely wouldn't hold screws/bolts unless they were cyclone bolts like my house has - where the roof is bolted to the foundation.
macka, I thought about the flexi panels but could not see how I could mount them securely to the front or top of the van. My panel that I'm adding to the roof has 25mm between the bottom of the frame to the top of the van so overheating should not be an issue.
Cheers
T1 Terry
Dibs
I have a Jayco Freedom pop top.
When I drilled the cable hole for the solar cable I found the roof cavity to be a solid polystyrene type insulation.