I have just completed 14500 Km`s on a trip from Perth to Central Australia via the Pilbara/Kimberly's/into NT then down to Alice Springs and reverse, to home in Perth.
I have a 200 Series Landcruiser towing my tandem axle van weighing 2500 Kg`s.
Once out of towns, I engaged cruise control and set it at 100Km`s/Hr. My average fuel consumption was 18.5 Lts/100 Km`s.
Had a discussion in my local last friday with a new Prado owner who tows his 2000 kg van (Pop up, single axle) in 4th gear; sports mode, to take the pressure of the gear box bearings! Stated fuel consummation 12 its/100km`s.
Can any members shed some light/recommendations on the gear box/pressure/bearings thinking.
I have not heard mention of this senerio before.
Looking forward to discussions.
Regards.
Hetho.
iana said
08:39 PM Jul 17, 2016
I use cruise control, because my GPS yells at me if I go over 90Kph
OwenK said
10:07 PM Jul 17, 2016
Hi Hetho, I tow a heavy van (most times 3500kg) Toyota dealer told me to tow in 4th (5 speed auto 100 series landcruiser turbo diesel).
Fuel economy about the same as towing in drive (5th). Apparently a lot less strain on transmission.
Cheers Owen.
Hey Jim said
10:50 PM Jul 17, 2016
Hi Hetho,
We will be hitting the road at the end of next week with our 2012 200 GX towing a new Jayco Journey Outback pop top tandem indpendant Undercarriage. Fully loaded total I'm expecting to see 2650kg on the weigh bridge ten minutes after leaving home.
I will be posting new photo's under show us your rig before heading off.
From my owe records pulling our boat to WA return we got best low 16teens, from memory average high 16teens @ 102km on cruise in fifth all the way.
With the van set up right 18 -18.5 I would be very happy.
I have ARB Bull Bar and side rails only. Plus big towing mirrors. I also have my firewood basket mounted also. But it's not mounted where you think.
You will have to wait for the photo's.
It comes down to aero dynamics and a balanced rig. Tyres play a big part with inflation. I will be running 44psi in new BFG A/T 275 / 65 R17 Which will give me an edge with the taque by 1.6%. When I find the sweet spot, that's what I will set the cruise at.
This will make an interesting set of figures, over all traveling conditions. By holding onto 5th with the extra weight and shape.
You don't mention wether you have extra's. Full roof basket, bars and driving lights.
Your mate and loaded Parado @ 12lts odd???? I would like to see.
Stay tuned for Thursday / Friday of this week. Home soon.
Regards Jim & Lambie
Aus-Kiwi said
08:31 AM Jul 18, 2016
If it's a turbo diesel ? The way turbo's work on exhaust . In too high a gear they drive hard to maintain engine torque . What can happen is the turbo gets very overheated . The Prado possibly hasn't got the durability of the Cruiser ? Or maybe different gearing also .. Most modern ECU's adjust to conditions now . But it won't hurt to have it sport mode .. Taller gearing does load up transmission etc ..
mjt57 said
01:04 PM Jul 18, 2016
Interesting topic.
On my first trip I tried cruise but gave up after having to brake and speed up due to traffic, hills, bends and so on. But for about 8 km on the Princes Freeway I was able to do 110 km/h on cruise. The Jeep's 8sp auto handled it well. It has transmission temps and oil temps on the dash display with no real elevated temps (it was also 15 degs out).
PeterD said
02:27 PM Jul 18, 2016
Hetho wrote:Had a discussion in my local last friday with a new Prado owner who tows his 2000 kg van (Pop up, single axle) in 4th gear; sports mode, to take the pressure of the gear box bearings! Stated fuel consummation 12 its/100km`s.
Can any members shed some light/recommendations on the gear box/pressure/bearings thinking.
There are a few things involved. The recommendation is to tow in a direct straight through gear (or so called gear.) In the older 4,5 or 6 speed boxes this was generally the second highest gear. In auto boxes, when this is selected the planets are locked together and no gearing is involved. In manual boxes the input is connected to the output shafts and none of the gears in the box are involved. Also in manual boxes the overdrive gear is often not as strongly constructed. At any rate in either type of box the less gears involved the less wear you get. (I am likely to get corrected a little for particular technology here but in general this is how things work.)
In addition, with auto boxes the higher gearing you use the more the torque converter works (torque convert slip to those who don't understand torque converters.) The more a torque converter works the more heat is generated. The more heat that is lost means there is a greater percentage of the power that is generated by the motor being lost in the radiator that could be used by the drive wheels. Torque converters are not at their most efficient operation until the output revs are around 3000 rpm. Just yesterday I again noted the effect of towing in overdrive. After a rest stop I forgot to switch the overdrive out. After building up road speed I was pulling a slight incline. I noted the engine revs were a little over 3000 rpm and the overdrive was not switched off. I immediately switched it off and the revs only increased a whisker. The slight difference was the showed how much the torque converter was working when I was driving in overdrive.
Ron-D said
03:30 PM Jul 18, 2016
I suppose it depends on the tug your driving,mine has a 2.5 ltr turbo Diesel engine with a five speed auto trans towing a two tonn van.
Locking the transmission in 4th gear it purrs like a kitten, with auto engaged the revs are all over the place ...
With cruise control in the drive position the car does not feel right, with it locked in fourth gear it's better, and I will drive it on dead flat roads like that occasionally , It all comes down to finding that sweet spot with your particular vehicle...
-- Edited by Ron-D on Monday 18th of July 2016 03:42:59 PM
OutbackMK said
07:53 PM Jul 18, 2016
My 70 series is a manual, I have re-flashed the ECU and now runs like hare with more KWs and torque than a 200 twin turbo unit.
I watch my EGT temperatures all the time, in 5th gear which on my truck is a very small increment on direct drive the EGTs will rise indicating the turbo and engine temps are rising at 400c I would change back to 4th. Now more often I run in 4th, the sweet spot for me is 2200 RPM which in 4th is less than 100kph and about 14.5 to 16 L/100km if I go to 5th the speed rises as does wind resistance and fuel consumption. My advise would be to look at your instant L/100 on trip computer and look at the impact on speed and fuel usage its really scary! (I have a scangauge connected to the OBDII port as the 70 series don't have an on-board computer).
I have a pop top but the aerodynamics of the LC76 are similar to a brick so I am pushing a lot of air, I found the best compromise was to run with the the most suitable speed to minimise the impact of wind resistance for me, on the fairly flat roads 80kph in 4th is 12.5 Lt/100 average, 85kph is 14.5 Lt/100 and 95 kph is 18.5 Lt/100. On long runs the cruise control is on 85kph. The auto will probably look to give better average Lt/100 km but as mentioned I would watch the auto transmission temp and EGT's if towing in overdrive, I cooked a few torque convertors on my Jeep.
All the above relates to a common rail turbo diesel not petrol engine and as I don't have an LC200 I'm not sure what the effect of wind resistance has on instant fuel usage is, curious however as a full height van must offer even more wind resistance than a poptop.
Weedpharma said
06:47 PM Jul 19, 2016
I use cruise in 5th at 90kph in my 2016 Hilux diesel manual towing 19'6"" Starcraft when on more or less level roads. With hills I go to 4th gear and manual speed.
Weedpharma
Aus-Kiwi said
07:12 PM Jul 19, 2016
Keep in mind these auto's have lock up torque converters . Often sport mode releases the converter lock up . Most engines need to be runing 100 kph or so to have any good torque to pull a van . My 6.5 GM turbo diesel pulls good at 105 kph ( on speedo) in top . 98 kph on GPS . Head winds tell more than most hills in my case . 2200 cruise at 100 kph or 2800 1D ..second from top . Auto ., I have used cruise crossing Nullabor. Found I get better fuel consumption .. Stays in higher gear longer. The Devels Own water / Meth kit takes care of exhaust temps .
-- Edited by Aus-Kiwi on Tuesday 19th of July 2016 07:18:38 PM
Hetho said
09:23 PM Jul 19, 2016
Hi All Respodees.
Lots of good info provided in all posts. Had a good conversation with a motor mechanic (old school) and he asked about change downs when in cruise.
My 200 series does change back to 5th, then 4th if required; once over the hill it quickly changes back to 6th.
So I think my gear box/pressures/bearing loadings are fine. Have done 103000 plus now and still feels like a new car.
I will be asking my mate with the Prado a few more questions, and offering some advice, as supplied via this forum.
Thank you all for your input.
Regards.
Hetho.
Aus-Kiwi said
09:47 PM Jul 19, 2016
Prado V 200 series is a big difference I suspect in trans engine .
macka17 said
01:31 AM Jul 20, 2016
My D-Max tows in Top (4 spd Auto), 2 ton Coromal and drops down a cog screaming.
b4 it gets to top of nearly all inclines when in AUtopilot.
I always changed down to 3rd b4 getting to that point.
After towing a lot over lots of yrs. Auto and manual.
These modern Auto's are the best. Specially with 2 ton up vans
but if not capable of locking in 3/4/5-4/5/6 etc
I reckon they best having a Torque Converter lock up fitted. Auto or manual
there are several on market.
If nothing else. they keep your Auto Transm, oil temp's a LOT cooler
Kiwi.
I think that 200 toyota thing and D.Max have same Aisin transm in them?.
brickies said
07:06 AM Jul 20, 2016
Lots of people love Cruise control but I am not one of them , Coming into corners and they rev up not for me it feel like driving a dodging car at the fair .
Bill B said
04:07 PM Jul 20, 2016
Hetho wrote:
My 200 series does change back to 5th, then 4th if required; once over the hill it quickly changes back to 6th.
Regards.
Hetho.
If you read your handbook it recommends that you tow in S5 not Drive.
Trevor law said
08:31 PM Jul 20, 2016
We have a 2010 GXL cruiser, always towed in 4 sport towing 3.5 kg van full time ,also have scangauge fitted,we drive to the gauge because if I put it in 5 sport the auto oil temp goes up from average of 60-70 to anywhere up to 90 plus.Also the fuel average is better in 4.Last week had a lock up kit fitted and now it keeps it in 5 better engine revs down to 1800 rpm water temp 85 auto temp 65 if I come to a hill auto temp starts to go up ,drop it down to 4,better fuel economy,the only difference is I can now use cruise control but have to be exceeding 90 for it to stay in 5 because it starts labouring so have to drop it in 4 Hope that make sense I have no affiliation with scangauge but it is the best thing I have put on the cruiser
Safe travels
Hetho said
09:42 PM Jul 20, 2016
Hi Bill B.
I feel the inference in your reply.
I have my handbook in front of me.
Could you please indicate the page number and chapter. (i.e. 1.1, 1.7, or possibly 2.5; and page no 334, maybe ! ) for the recomendation to tow in S5.
Regards.
Hetho
Bill B said
10:02 PM Jul 20, 2016
I'll have a look in the morning Hetho.
It was either in the handbook or in a separate little booklet on trailer towing.
Bill B said
08:50 AM Jul 21, 2016
Under Section 2.5 (Trailer Towing Tips) page 230 it states do not put the transmission into "D"
Like Trevor mentioned above I tow in S4 most of the time. If you use S5/S6 the transmission hunts between gears, unless you can maintain a steady speed of 100 kph, which generates heat and that it what damages gearboxes.
littlenose said
08:49 PM Jul 21, 2016
I was under the impression that cruise control was purely a method of speed control and would endeavor to maintain the set speed regardless of what gear the auto transmission has chosen.
I tow 2.8 Tonne with my BT50 in sports mode but when I reach 97/98 kph it pops itself into overdrive, I am assuming the control module is smarter than me so let it do its thing.
Hello to you all.
I have just completed 14500 Km`s on a trip from Perth to Central Australia via the Pilbara/Kimberly's/into NT then down to Alice Springs and reverse, to home in Perth.
I have a 200 Series Landcruiser towing my tandem axle van weighing 2500 Kg`s.
Once out of towns, I engaged cruise control and set it at 100Km`s/Hr. My average fuel consumption was 18.5 Lts/100 Km`s.
Had a discussion in my local last friday with a new Prado owner who tows his 2000 kg van (Pop up, single axle) in 4th gear; sports mode, to take the pressure of the gear box bearings! Stated fuel consummation 12 its/100km`s.
Can any members shed some light/recommendations on the gear box/pressure/bearings thinking.
I have not heard mention of this senerio before.
Looking forward to discussions.
Regards.
Hetho.
Hi Hetho, I tow a heavy van (most times 3500kg) Toyota dealer told me to tow in 4th (5 speed auto 100 series landcruiser turbo diesel).
Fuel economy about the same as towing in drive (5th). Apparently a lot less strain on transmission.
Cheers Owen.
Hi Hetho,
We will be hitting the road at the end of next week with our 2012 200 GX towing a new Jayco Journey Outback pop top tandem indpendant Undercarriage. Fully loaded total I'm expecting to see 2650kg on the weigh bridge ten minutes after leaving home.
I will be posting new photo's under show us your rig before heading off.
From my owe records pulling our boat to WA return we got best low 16teens, from memory average high 16teens @ 102km on cruise in fifth all the way.
With the van set up right 18 -18.5 I would be very happy.
I have ARB Bull Bar and side rails only. Plus big towing mirrors. I also have my firewood basket mounted also. But it's not mounted where you think.
You will have to wait for the photo's.
It comes down to aero dynamics and a balanced rig. Tyres play a big part with inflation. I will be running 44psi in new BFG A/T 275 / 65 R17 Which will give me an edge with the taque by 1.6%. When I find the sweet spot, that's what I will set the cruise at.
This will make an interesting set of figures, over all traveling conditions. By holding onto 5th with the extra weight and shape.
You don't mention wether you have extra's. Full roof basket, bars and driving lights.
Your mate and loaded Parado @ 12lts odd???? I would like to see.
Stay tuned for Thursday / Friday of this week. Home soon.
Regards Jim & Lambie
On my first trip I tried cruise but gave up after having to brake and speed up due to traffic, hills, bends and so on. But for about 8 km on the Princes Freeway I was able to do 110 km/h on cruise. The Jeep's 8sp auto handled it well. It has transmission temps and oil temps on the dash display with no real elevated temps (it was also 15 degs out).
There are a few things involved. The recommendation is to tow in a direct straight through gear (or so called gear.) In the older 4,5 or 6 speed boxes this was generally the second highest gear. In auto boxes, when this is selected the planets are locked together and no gearing is involved. In manual boxes the input is connected to the output shafts and none of the gears in the box are involved. Also in manual boxes the overdrive gear is often not as strongly constructed. At any rate in either type of box the less gears involved the less wear you get. (I am likely to get corrected a little for particular technology here but in general this is how things work.)
In addition, with auto boxes the higher gearing you use the more the torque converter works (torque convert slip to those who don't understand torque converters.) The more a torque converter works the more heat is generated. The more heat that is lost means there is a greater percentage of the power that is generated by the motor being lost in the radiator that could be used by the drive wheels. Torque converters are not at their most efficient operation until the output revs are around 3000 rpm. Just yesterday I again noted the effect of towing in overdrive. After a rest stop I forgot to switch the overdrive out. After building up road speed I was pulling a slight incline. I noted the engine revs were a little over 3000 rpm and the overdrive was not switched off. I immediately switched it off and the revs only increased a whisker. The slight difference was the showed how much the torque converter was working when I was driving in overdrive.
I suppose it depends on the tug your driving,mine has a 2.5 ltr turbo Diesel engine with a five speed auto trans towing a two tonn van.
Locking the transmission in 4th gear it purrs like a kitten, with auto engaged the revs are all over the place ...
With cruise control in the drive position the car does not feel right, with it locked in fourth gear it's better, and I will drive it on dead flat roads like that occasionally , It all comes down to finding that sweet spot with your particular vehicle...
-- Edited by Ron-D on Monday 18th of July 2016 03:42:59 PM
I watch my EGT temperatures all the time, in 5th gear which on my truck is a very small increment on direct drive the EGTs will rise indicating the turbo and engine temps are rising at 400c I would change back to 4th. Now more often I run in 4th, the sweet spot for me is 2200 RPM which in 4th is less than 100kph and about 14.5 to 16 L/100km if I go to 5th the speed rises as does wind resistance and fuel consumption. My advise would be to look at your instant L/100 on trip computer and look at the impact on speed and fuel usage its really scary! (I have a scangauge connected to the OBDII port as the 70 series don't have an on-board computer).
I have a pop top but the aerodynamics of the LC76 are similar to a brick so I am pushing a lot of air, I found the best compromise was to run with the the most suitable speed to minimise the impact of wind resistance for me, on the fairly flat roads 80kph in 4th is 12.5 Lt/100 average, 85kph is 14.5 Lt/100 and 95 kph is 18.5 Lt/100. On long runs the cruise control is on 85kph. The auto will probably look to give better average Lt/100 km but as mentioned I would watch the auto transmission temp and EGT's if towing in overdrive, I cooked a few torque convertors on my Jeep.
All the above relates to a common rail turbo diesel not petrol engine and as I don't have an LC200 I'm not sure what the effect of wind resistance has on instant fuel usage is, curious however as a full height van must offer even more wind resistance than a poptop.
Weedpharma
Keep in mind these auto's have lock up torque converters . Often sport mode releases the converter lock up . Most engines need to be runing 100 kph or so to have any good torque to pull a van . My 6.5 GM turbo diesel pulls good at 105 kph ( on speedo) in top . 98 kph on GPS . Head winds tell more than most hills in my case . 2200 cruise at 100 kph or 2800 1D ..second from top . Auto ., I have used cruise crossing Nullabor. Found I get better fuel consumption .. Stays in higher gear longer. The Devels Own water / Meth kit takes care of exhaust temps .
-- Edited by Aus-Kiwi on Tuesday 19th of July 2016 07:18:38 PM
Lots of good info provided in all posts. Had a good conversation with a motor mechanic (old school) and he asked about change downs when in cruise.
My 200 series does change back to 5th, then 4th if required; once over the hill it quickly changes back to 6th.
So I think my gear box/pressures/bearing loadings are fine. Have done 103000 plus now and still feels like a new car.
I will be asking my mate with the Prado a few more questions, and offering some advice, as supplied via this forum.
Thank you all for your input.
Regards.
Hetho.
b4 it gets to top of nearly all inclines when in AUtopilot.
I always changed down to 3rd b4 getting to that point.
After towing a lot over lots of yrs. Auto and manual.
These modern Auto's are the best. Specially with 2 ton up vans
but if not capable of locking in 3/4/5-4/5/6 etc
I reckon they best having a Torque Converter lock up fitted. Auto or manual
there are several on market.
If nothing else. they keep your Auto Transm, oil temp's a LOT cooler
Kiwi.
I think that 200 toyota thing and D.Max have same Aisin transm in them?.
If you read your handbook it recommends that you tow in S5 not Drive.
We have a 2010 GXL cruiser, always towed in 4 sport towing 3.5 kg van full time ,also have scangauge fitted,we drive to the gauge because if I put it in 5 sport the auto oil temp goes up from average of 60-70 to anywhere up to 90 plus.Also the fuel average is better in 4.Last week had a lock up kit fitted and now it keeps it in 5 better engine revs down to 1800 rpm water temp 85 auto temp 65 if I come to a hill auto temp starts to go up ,drop it down to 4,better fuel economy,the only difference is I can now use cruise control but have to be exceeding 90 for it to stay in 5 because it starts labouring so have to drop it in 4 Hope that make sense I have no affiliation with scangauge but it is the best thing I have put on the cruiser
Safe travels
Hi Bill B.
I feel the inference in your reply.
I have my handbook in front of me.
Could you please indicate the page number and chapter. (i.e. 1.1, 1.7, or possibly 2.5; and page no 334, maybe ! ) for the recomendation to tow in S5.
Regards.
Hetho
It was either in the handbook or in a separate little booklet on trailer towing.
Like Trevor mentioned above I tow in S4 most of the time. If you use S5/S6 the transmission hunts between gears, unless you can maintain a steady speed of 100 kph, which generates heat and that it what damages gearboxes.
I was under the impression that cruise control was purely a method of speed control and would endeavor to maintain the set speed regardless of what gear the auto transmission has chosen.
I tow 2.8 Tonne with my BT50 in sports mode but when I reach 97/98 kph it pops itself into overdrive, I am assuming the control module is smarter than me so let it do its thing.