Hi to all, Just had the rig over a public weigh bridge and found I'Ve exceeded the tow ball allowance. I've read that RACQ don't recommend you distribute weight to reduce ball weight. Other than jetisoning gear, what other options do I have? Surely adding rear box and transferring stuff from the front boot to the rear box is the smart thing to do?
Anyone had experiences in this area?
cheers
Buck.
rockylizard said
05:24 PM Jun 5, 2016
Gday...
Buckmaria, can you please explain which "tow ball allowance" you have exceeded?
The max tow ball weight stipulated by -
Vehicle manufacturer;
Van manufacturer; or
some other source.
Some information would be helpful in providing some advice.
Personally, depending on what answers you provide above, I would suggest that 'rearranging' the load to 'vary' the tow ball weight would be a sensible solution.
However, I would definitely NOT recommend "adding rear box and transferring stuff from the front boot to the rear box" as a solution.
Before offering any advice about how to overcome your problem, it would also be good to know the ATM of the van over the scales, and some details about the van and the vehicle's weights etc.
cheers - John
-- Edited by rockylizard on Sunday 5th of June 2016 05:26:12 PM
Hey Jim said
05:34 PM Jun 5, 2016
Hi Buck,
Can you top us up with some details of the tow truck and van size.
Your not alone out there with the outfit.
I have my new Jayco Journey Outback in the cave. I have relocated 30kg away from the front to balance total. We are up up and away next month. Delivered with a ball weight of 199kg empty. Max ball weight 240kg. No way.
Even the jack/ mounting plate and brace =6.2kg Gone under the bed towards the tandum wheels. Second spare tyre from A frame cradle 24.3kg gone. Second water tank moved back one complete frame saves 14-15kg away from ball weight.
In place I have a 1200mm x 900mm wire basket =16kg mounted on top of the A frame to carry a bit of F/Wood milk crete with a home brew keg within. My diesel heater Fuel tank= 11kg full, is mounted in the front boot plus genie =23kg.2x water hoses, chocs for van and levellers 10kg total. On the rear have mounted the sat dish. To date I'm at 223kg throw in a few cloths/ linen and that's it.I will be at my maximum ball load.
How the hell can Jayco come up with 240kg Max ball. They are in Lair Lair Land. Towing with 200GX TTD.
Jim
Buckmaria said
06:03 PM Jun 5, 2016
Thanks for reply gents,
Tow vehicle is 2015 XLT Ranger with Ford fitted tow bar with 3500kg tow capacity and tow ball weight maximum of 350kg.
Van is 22' Kingdom Off Road with most options including 2 x 95lt tanks and dual solar panels with dual batteries in front of the dual wheels.
Weigh bridge data =
Car + Van = 5580 kg
Van only while attached to car = 2800 kg
Van only on jockey wheel = 3180 kg
Therefore a ball weight of 380kg. So 30 kg overweight.
I hope this helps with your deliberations.
Bruce and Bev said
06:05 PM Jun 5, 2016
Jim. I don't know about ball weights (lol), but RV manufacturers tend to be very conservative when it comes to things like tow ball weight, ATMs and the like.
My Dmax and its Dealer fitted tow bar is rated to take 350kg tow ball weight and so is my van. But the ATM and other confusing weights for most of us put us over when we just filled up the water tanks and put the genie in the front side compartment.
I asked the Dealer who said "just ask Supreme (in my case) to increase the various weights - give them a phone. I did and spoke to a techo guy there who said yep, we can take all the weights up by another 400kg without compromising the van or your driving safety.
I have my van fully loaded (boy - women know how to fill all the spaces up in an RV - touch one thing and all the other stuff comes out like its on a spring) and my tow ball weight is 230kg and I am about (depends on how much the BOSS packs each time) 50 kg under the other VIN (replacement one) plate numbers.
The guy from Supreme told me that manufacturers like to under rate the weights as people tend to go over them anyway and they do it to cover their bottoms in the event of an accident or whatever
BaupleNut said
06:25 PM Jun 5, 2016
Some how I don't think it would be legal to just make a phone call to alter what your compliance plate states.
-- Edited by BaupleNut on Sunday 5th of June 2016 06:27:13 PM
The Phantom said
06:44 PM Jun 5, 2016
Buck, I figure that if you are that much overloaded with your van, you will be similarly packed to the hilt in your ute. The weight on the tow ball is not the only criteria for towing. It is the whole package.
If you were to set off with 350kgs on the towball, your Ranger is going to be at it's limits from day one.
I would suggest that you have a complete rethink on your arrangement and redo your numbers, then repack accordingly.
The Phantom
mr glassies said
08:48 PM Jun 5, 2016
Brisbane Rv did with mine but was still not enough .
Dibs
DMaxer said
09:45 PM Jun 5, 2016
Phantom, are they really in Africa?
-- Edited by DMaxer on Sunday 5th of June 2016 09:47:21 PM
The Phantom said
10:32 PM Jun 5, 2016
Que?
The Phantom
Desert Dweller said
06:07 AM Jun 6, 2016
You know that you've got too much weight on when you get into your car & can't see over the bonnet. Another warning sign is when everyone flashes their headlights at you because they think that you've got your headlights on high beam. Our Nissan Navara has a sliding scale for ball weight depending on how loaded the vehicle is. 280kg max. with an empty tub reducing to 60kg max. with a 1ton payload. Pretty simple really.
thewayes said
06:44 AM Jun 6, 2016
Buck you need to know a couple of things first and you may do already
1 Your GCM is 6000kg 2 Your GVM is 3200kg 3 Your kerb weight is 2271kg about that depending on your vehicle 4 Your payload should be about 925kg 5 Your tow ball weight is 350Kg
So you need to make sure your combined weight including your vehicle does not go over the 6000kg and your ball weight is no more then 350kg and you already know that so as you said your going to have to rearrange your gear by moving back. At home put your jockey wheel on a set of scales that will do up to 380kg then start moving your gear to the back or to the middle of your van then see how the weight changes you should be able to work out the amount of gear you need to move while watching the scales. If you don't have scales that will do that much move the scales back along the drawbar towards the wheels and using a block of timber at the correct length place it under the drawbar down to the scales and lower the jockey wheel so the timber is on the scales and your getting a weight reading it will be less then the drawbar weight of 380kg but it will be ok to use this to measure the reading as you move stuff towards the back. Hope this is of help to you, you may already know this
Geoff
-- Edited by thewayes on Monday 6th of June 2016 06:46:20 AM
iana said
09:41 AM Jun 6, 2016
Its a real bummer when you take your new vehicle to the caravan sales, that's the vehicle, that the vehicle salesmen said "This vehicle will tow X", and then the caravan salesman says "You can tow anything in this yard", you make your purchase get home and find that the vehicle can't tow "X" and the van is too heavy. I should know, that what happened to me.
My van is on or over the limits and I'm working to make it all fit. Intending to be on the road full time. The vehicle is the cousin of yours a BT50, same weights and pulling power. Reading different articles from the net, I have found that ball weight is not a set figure. In Europe it can be 5% of the van ATM and across to the USA it can be 15% van ATM. Someone in Aus. said 10% but that is not an absolute figure, just a guide.
The articles I have read have said ball weight has less effect on caravan stability than weight distribution. And advise having the heavy weights in the van over the wheels and low down. That's batteries, water, tools etc. Any weight at the extremities of the van will have a pendulum effect and will tend to exacerbate sway.
What I am doing, is I have had the rear springs in the ute replaced with stronger ones, and am transferring as much weight into the ute as possible (as forward as possible). I have the batteries in the van over the axles, and the water tanks each side of the axles. My ball weight is about 7%. It is a variable figure that won't pan out until we hit the road full time.
-- Edited by iana on Monday 6th of June 2016 09:41:45 AM
Izabarack said
09:46 AM Jun 6, 2016
Buckmaria wrote:
Surely adding rear box and transferring stuff from the front boot to the rear box is the smart thing to do?
Weight a long way to the rear of the axle group will create instability. Getting weight as close as practical to the axle group contributes to stability. Moving weight from the van to the vehicle is also a good thing. You have a very heavy van to get under control. Take extra care to consider the benefits of adding around 59 kg of mass to the hitch joint by fitting a WDH.
Iza
iana said
10:05 AM Jun 6, 2016
I forgot to add, I am also installing a water tank in the ute (85lt), and intend to use this rather than have full van tanks. The other bit of info I have gleaned, is that the tow vehicle should be as heavy as possible over the van.
Just remember the combined vehicle mass is the important figure, and that includes passengers, pets and all other stuff you carry. 6 tonne is your limit.
-- Edited by iana on Monday 6th of June 2016 10:12:09 AM
macka17 said
10:45 AM Jun 6, 2016
And on top of the max combined weights.
Check the AXLE weights. Individually. Every axle, Car, and van weight for such.
Has it's own MAX loading.
The mobile units weigh you by the axles and combine figures. BUT.
if he in a bad mood. He can break it down to the individual axles and even though within max. you over on one axle.
That. If he's in a good mood can be rectifies by moving crap around and reweighing.
Bad Mood. You off road and a ticket.
Always have tug heavier than tow and with utes, For safety keep tow under 2.5 ton or so.
As soon as you load ute to give you safer towing weight. You cannot tow as much.
Ute light enuff to stay within weights with larger van.
Look out. It'll control you when things go wrong.
All vehicle have sliding scale of towing/carrying weights. Know yours. combine it with your AXLE weights and drawbar.
You'll be sweet.
Often though. you have too much crap. too big a van, or too small a tug.
Bringing up my favourite subject.
Pretraining and endorsement on licence.
Most new vanners believe sales staff and go BIGGGGGGGGGGGGGg. "You can tow it. No problems"....
Ha Ha.
if people have a basic day or two instruction on towing. loading. handling and reversing.
AND stick to the rules.
there wouldn't be half the problems there are.
The cost of such compared to cost of rig you buying, and insuring.
Is a pittance.
And you go away a lot safer and more grasp on what's what.
I get a truck drivers advanced driving test every 10 yrs or so so keep my bad habits in check.
cost $60 this yr. well worth it.
We ALL accumulate bad habits. Only fools think otherwise.
The only people that would whinge about that. are the ones who have an ulterior reason.
5th wheelers over say 25 ft should have a semi licence. (Truckies have to... Where's the dofference)
And rigs over say 6.5 ton should need a HG licence.
Truckies need a licence for such from around that weight.
Same thing again. What makes a person with NO experience not need a licence.
when commercial drivers that drive all day, Do.
It's what's known as personal responsibilities. Be responsible. Do the right thing.
Most of us Do, try to.
It's the others we have to cover.
Off his box and back under cover.
The Phantom said
11:13 AM Jun 6, 2016
Buck, now that you have read and, hopefully, digested all of the above, how much do you think you will get for the van and Ranger when you sell it?
Hi BaupleNut. In WA, the van manufacturer simply made up a new VIN plate and posted it to me. But to be compliant and have the van rego details changed, I had to have it weighed and inspected by DOT or agent. As the WA DOT inspection pits were about a 2 hour drive away from me, I had an agent do it. It took about half a day and included brake and wheel (rims and tyres) check, frame check, road drive. It cost me $200.
But apparently in some States, you can simply just screw on a new VIN plate and its legal........
macka17 said
10:01 AM Jun 7, 2016
My latest van has max weight 350kg LESS than axle ratings. Builders are sending a new plate out to me he said. After I sent details and vin No of van.
we'll see hey.
-- Edited by macka17 on Tuesday 7th of June 2016 10:01:56 AM
Hi to all, Just had the rig over a public weigh bridge and found I'Ve exceeded the tow ball allowance. I've read that RACQ don't recommend you distribute weight to reduce ball weight. Other than jetisoning gear, what other options do I have? Surely adding rear box and transferring stuff from the front boot to the rear box is the smart thing to do?
Anyone had experiences in this area?
cheers
Buck.
Gday...
Buckmaria, can you please explain which "tow ball allowance" you have exceeded?
The max tow ball weight stipulated by -
Some information would be helpful in providing some advice.
Personally, depending on what answers you provide above, I would suggest that 'rearranging' the load to 'vary' the tow ball weight would be a sensible solution.
However, I would definitely NOT recommend "adding rear box and transferring stuff from the front boot to the rear box" as a solution.
Before offering any advice about how to overcome your problem, it would also be good to know the ATM of the van over the scales, and some details about the van and the vehicle's weights etc.
cheers - John
-- Edited by rockylizard on Sunday 5th of June 2016 05:26:12 PM
Hi Buck,
Can you top us up with some details of the tow truck and van size.
Your not alone out there with the outfit.
I have my new Jayco Journey Outback in the cave. I have relocated 30kg away from the front to balance total. We are up up and away next month. Delivered with a ball weight of 199kg empty. Max ball weight 240kg. No way.
Even the jack/ mounting plate and brace =6.2kg Gone under the bed towards the tandum wheels. Second spare tyre from A frame cradle 24.3kg gone. Second water tank moved back one complete frame saves 14-15kg away from ball weight.
In place I have a 1200mm x 900mm wire basket =16kg mounted on top of the A frame to carry a bit of F/Wood milk crete with a home brew keg within. My diesel heater Fuel tank= 11kg full, is mounted in the front boot plus genie =23kg.2x water hoses, chocs for van and levellers 10kg total. On the rear have mounted the sat dish. To date I'm at 223kg throw in a few cloths/ linen and that's it.I will be at my maximum ball load.
How the hell can Jayco come up with 240kg Max ball.
They are in Lair Lair Land. Towing with 200GX TTD.
Jim
Tow vehicle is 2015 XLT Ranger with Ford fitted tow bar with 3500kg tow capacity and tow ball weight maximum of 350kg.
Van is 22' Kingdom Off Road with most options including 2 x 95lt tanks and dual solar panels with dual batteries in front of the dual wheels.
Weigh bridge data =
Car + Van = 5580 kg
Van only while attached to car = 2800 kg
Van only on jockey wheel = 3180 kg
Therefore a ball weight of 380kg. So 30 kg overweight.
I hope this helps with your deliberations.
My Dmax and its Dealer fitted tow bar is rated to take 350kg tow ball weight and so is my van. But the ATM and other confusing weights for most of us put us over when we just filled up the water tanks and put the genie in the front side compartment.
I asked the Dealer who said "just ask Supreme (in my case) to increase the various weights - give them a phone. I did and spoke to a techo guy there who said yep, we can take all the weights up by another 400kg without compromising the van or your driving safety.
I have my van fully loaded (boy - women know how to fill all the spaces up in an RV - touch one thing and all the other stuff comes out like its on a spring) and my tow ball weight is 230kg and I am about (depends on how much the BOSS packs each time) 50 kg under the other VIN (replacement one) plate numbers.
The guy from Supreme told me that manufacturers like to under rate the weights as people tend to go over them anyway and they do it to cover their bottoms in the event of an accident or whatever
Some how I don't think it would be legal to just make a phone call to alter what your compliance plate states.
-- Edited by BaupleNut on Sunday 5th of June 2016 06:27:13 PM
Buck, I figure that if you are that much overloaded with your van, you will be similarly packed to the hilt in your ute. The weight on the tow ball is not the only criteria for towing. It is the whole package.
If you were to set off with 350kgs on the towball, your Ranger is going to be at it's limits from day one.
I would suggest that you have a complete rethink on your arrangement and redo your numbers, then repack accordingly.
The Phantom
Brisbane Rv did with mine but was still not enough .
Dibs
Phantom, are they really in Africa?
-- Edited by DMaxer on Sunday 5th of June 2016 09:47:21 PM
Que?
The Phantom
You know that you've got too much weight on when you get into your car & can't see over the bonnet.
Another warning sign is when everyone flashes their headlights at you because they think that you've got your headlights on high beam. 
Our Nissan Navara has a sliding scale for ball weight depending on how loaded the vehicle is. 280kg max. with an empty tub reducing to 60kg max. with a 1ton payload. Pretty simple really.
Buck you need to know a couple of things first and you may do already
1 Your GCM is 6000kg
2 Your GVM is 3200kg
3 Your kerb weight is 2271kg about that depending on your vehicle
4 Your payload should be about 925kg
5 Your tow ball weight is 350Kg
So you need to make sure your combined weight including your vehicle does not go over the 6000kg and your ball weight is no more then 350kg and you already know that so as you said your going to have to rearrange your gear by moving back. At home put your jockey wheel on a set of scales that will do up to 380kg then start moving your gear to the back or to the middle of your van then see how the weight changes you should be able to work out the amount of gear you need to move while watching the scales. If you don't have scales that will do that much move the scales back along the drawbar towards the wheels and using a block of timber at the correct length place it under the drawbar down to the scales and lower the jockey wheel so the timber is on the scales and your getting a weight reading it will be less then the drawbar weight of 380kg but it will be ok to use this to measure the reading as you move stuff towards the back. Hope this is of help to you, you may already know this
Geoff
-- Edited by thewayes on Monday 6th of June 2016 06:46:20 AM
Its a real bummer when you take your new vehicle to the caravan sales, that's the vehicle, that the vehicle salesmen said "This vehicle will tow X", and then the caravan salesman says "You can tow anything in this yard", you make your purchase get home and find that the vehicle can't tow "X" and the van is too heavy. I should know, that what happened to me.
My van is on or over the limits and I'm working to make it all fit. Intending to be on the road full time. The vehicle is the cousin of yours a BT50, same weights and pulling power. Reading different articles from the net, I have found that ball weight is not a set figure. In Europe it can be 5% of the van ATM and across to the USA it can be 15% van ATM. Someone in Aus. said 10% but that is not an absolute figure, just a guide.
The articles I have read have said ball weight has less effect on caravan stability than weight distribution. And advise having the heavy weights in the van over the wheels and low down. That's batteries, water, tools etc. Any weight at the extremities of the van will have a pendulum effect and will tend to exacerbate sway.
What I am doing, is I have had the rear springs in the ute replaced with stronger ones, and am transferring as much weight into the ute as possible (as forward as possible). I have the batteries in the van over the axles, and the water tanks each side of the axles. My ball weight is about 7%. It is a variable figure that won't pan out until we hit the road full time.
-- Edited by iana on Monday 6th of June 2016 09:41:45 AM
Weight a long way to the rear of the axle group will create instability. Getting weight as close as practical to the axle group contributes to stability. Moving weight from the van to the vehicle is also a good thing. You have a very heavy van to get under control. Take extra care to consider the benefits of adding around 59 kg of mass to the hitch joint by fitting a WDH.
Iza
I forgot to add, I am also installing a water tank in the ute (85lt), and intend to use this rather than have full van tanks. The other bit of info I have gleaned, is that the tow vehicle should be as heavy as possible over the van.
Just remember the combined vehicle mass is the important figure, and that includes passengers, pets and all other stuff you carry. 6 tonne is your limit.
-- Edited by iana on Monday 6th of June 2016 10:12:09 AM
Check the AXLE weights. Individually. Every axle, Car, and van weight for such.
Has it's own MAX loading.
The mobile units weigh you by the axles and combine figures. BUT.
if he in a bad mood. He can break it down to the individual axles and even though within max. you over on one axle.
That. If he's in a good mood can be rectifies by moving crap around and reweighing.
Bad Mood. You off road and a ticket.
Always have tug heavier than tow and with utes, For safety keep tow under 2.5 ton or so.
As soon as you load ute to give you safer towing weight. You cannot tow as much.
Ute light enuff to stay within weights with larger van.
Look out. It'll control you when things go wrong.
All vehicle have sliding scale of towing/carrying weights. Know yours. combine it with your AXLE weights and drawbar.
You'll be sweet.
Often though. you have too much crap. too big a van, or too small a tug.
Bringing up my favourite subject.
Pretraining and endorsement on licence.
Most new vanners believe sales staff and go BIGGGGGGGGGGGGGg. "You can tow it. No problems"....
Ha Ha.
if people have a basic day or two instruction on towing. loading. handling and reversing.
AND stick to the rules.
there wouldn't be half the problems there are.
The cost of such compared to cost of rig you buying, and insuring.
Is a pittance.
And you go away a lot safer and more grasp on what's what.
I get a truck drivers advanced driving test every 10 yrs or so so keep my bad habits in check.
cost $60 this yr. well worth it.
We ALL accumulate bad habits. Only fools think otherwise.
The only people that would whinge about that. are the ones who have an ulterior reason.
5th wheelers over say 25 ft should have a semi licence. (Truckies have to... Where's the dofference)
And rigs over say 6.5 ton should need a HG licence.
Truckies need a licence for such from around that weight.
Same thing again. What makes a person with NO experience not need a licence.
when commercial drivers that drive all day, Do.
It's what's known as personal responsibilities. Be responsible. Do the right thing.
Most of us Do, try to.
It's the others we have to cover.
Off his box and back under cover.
Buck, now that you have read and, hopefully, digested all of the above, how much do you think you will get for the van and Ranger when you sell it?
The Phantom
________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Some how I don't think it would be legal to just make a phone call to alter what your compliance plate states.
-- Edited by BaupleNut on Sunday 5th of June 2016 06:27:13 PM
________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Hi BaupleNut. In WA, the van manufacturer simply made up a new VIN plate and posted it to me. But to be compliant and have the van rego details changed, I had to have it weighed and inspected by DOT or agent. As the WA DOT inspection pits were about a 2 hour drive away from me, I had an agent do it. It took about half a day and included brake and wheel (rims and tyres) check, frame check, road drive. It cost me $200.
But apparently in some States, you can simply just screw on a new VIN plate and its legal........
My latest van has max weight 350kg LESS than axle ratings.
Builders are sending a new plate out to me he said.
After I sent details and vin No of van.
we'll see hey.
-- Edited by macka17 on Tuesday 7th of June 2016 10:01:56 AM