Oh no, it's that day of the week. Once again I'm off to that great icon of Aussie cultcha, The Club. Personally, I'd rather stay home and have an intelligent conversation with myself, but as a carer, I have to attend to the needs of others. Thankfully they prefer the Chinese buffet, so at least I don't have to stomach meat pies or sausage rolls or whatever passes for food in those other dining areas.
Afterwards we sometimes relax in the lounge area. I say that loosely, because the room is surrounded by wall-to-wall monitors which display a dozen different ways for you to "flutter away" your earnings -- or your savings.
Usually at one corner of the lounge will be a group of pathetic old ducks scratching their tickets while some monotonous robot calls out the numbers that will see them go home with a fortune or a tray of pork chops.
Elsewhere some loser is recycling his pension through a poker machine while lunching on a bag of crisps. Mate, the buffet is that way. --->
At the next table some doddery octogenarian gets up from studying the form guide, stumbles to the bar, orders a schooner, and returns with a midi. After 80 years on the planet he still hasn't learnt that he'll always be a mug punter, and that the only people who make any money out of the nags and hounds are the crooks on the inside and their mates on the outside. At least he no longer has to watch some smarmy faced lowlife telling him that he knows what he wants.
Good old Aussie cultcha. Don't you just love it? Drugs, booze, hounds, nags, pokies and footy. That's life in God's country. Happy Hour anyone?
Hendo said
10:07 AM May 24, 2016
I would reply but I'm lost for words!
KFT said
10:51 AM May 24, 2016
you having a "moment" there Dorian?
or is today just "one of those days"
brickies said
11:22 AM May 24, 2016
What a great carer you must be .
valiant81 said
12:38 PM May 24, 2016
Hi all,
Dorian, Just remember that once these people have left the planet and passed on, soon it will be your turn at the the club, pokes and bingo. I hope you end up with a 'carer' that has the same attatude as you and treats you with the same attention as what you are giveing now, just remember, we all will get old and one day it will be your turn 'for the wrong end of the stick'.
PS, I'm also a carer and i as well as the others that i work with ENJOY OUR WORK.
-- Edited by valiant81 on Tuesday 24th of May 2016 12:53:39 PM
valiant81 said
12:51 PM May 24, 2016
-- Edited by valiant81 on Tuesday 24th of May 2016 12:52:43 PM
Magnarc said
04:09 PM May 24, 2016
This topic is enough to make Oscar Wild Dorian. You have stirred them all up though, including me I suppose!!!
Hey Jim said
06:30 PM May 24, 2016
Hi dorian,
Nup. Doesn't work like that for us.
We go to the club each Thursday night and swip both members cards,Get our ticket each and put in the barrel for the $1000 cash giveaway. We have the coffee club within our club. We get two pots of tea for $4 sit back and wait till our name is pulled out and spin the cash wheel. The mugs playing the pokies pay us.
At the end of each month there is a $5000 giveaway to members. This Thursday night, is that day again.
You just have to love the pokies.
Jim & Lambie
dorian said
06:42 PM May 24, 2016
My piece was intended to express my disdain for the Australian penchant for drinking and gambling, and particularly for the venues in which it occurs. Those who suggest that I resent caring for my loved ones are beneath contempt.
Several years ago, after my father suffered his last heart attack, I quit my job, sold my house, and moved back home to be the live-in carer for my parents. If I had not done so, my father would now be dead and my mother would be in a home. I am doing my best to ensure that they live out their remaining days in the home that my father built.
I admit that I'm far from the perfect carer, but that's not because I don't care. In fact I have serious problems of my own, most of which are due to bad life experiences. There are days when I feel overwhelmed even before I get out of bed.
The reality is that none of us have ever liked clubs. My father has never been to a pub, let alone had a drink in one, nor has my mother. None of us have ever squandered a dollar in a poker machine, or wasted any money on a horse or a hound. The closest I come to gambling is when I purchase a lottery ticket as a gift. As far I'm concerned, the "racing" industry is a mechanism designed to transfer wealth from mug punters to "colourful racing identities". None of us want any part of it.
It is only since my mother began losing her faculties that she has developed a taste for buffets, so whilst I hate clubs, I love to make my mother happy. In fact my father, who does like buffets, would still prefer to have a sandwich at home (his bad back can't cope with a long drive). If we could find a local restaurant with a buffet, then that's where we would go.
dorian said
06:47 PM May 24, 2016
Hey Jim wrote:
Hi dorian,
Nup. Doesn't work like that for us.
We go to the club each Thursday night and swip both members cards,Get our ticket each and put in the barrel for the $1000 cash giveaway. We have the coffee club within our club. We get two pots of tea for $4 sit back and wait till our name is pulled out and spin the cash wheel. The mugs playing the pokies pay us.
At the end of each month there is a $5000 giveaway to members. This Thursday night, is that day again.
You just have to love the pokies.
Jim & Lambie
Well, I guess that makes you the intelligent ones. I know of two women (I think they would be my cousins-in-law) who put their entire personal injury payouts (some several hundred thousand dollars) through poker machines. I don't know whether I should ridicule them or pity them. It does make me wonder about the system that allows it to happen, though.
goldfinger said
07:42 PM May 24, 2016
I liked your post Dorian and you sound pretty 'together' to me mate..... The simple fact that is missed by most Poker machine players is, here in Victoria and likely elsewhere is... they must pay back 87%...hello?.... therefore simple arithmetic means you are DEPRECIATING your money by 13% by playing consistantly.....
If you depreciate your money by 13% how can anyone turn a profit?......unless you play once, hit a big win, and then never play again....of course human nature means if that happens you are even more likely to continue to play consistantly.....and lose a guaranteed 13%.....
Moral: No-one but no-one, has ever made a profit by taking a 13% loss....
An elderly lady friend of mine, late 70's, lost her beloved husband....and she started going to the pokies regularly...she had always been such a sensible lady in life and business through the years...I asked her straight out why when she knew she had to lose at least 13%.....she replied she was so lonely...all the flashing lights, noises, and folk sitting round her, made her feel like a 'happy' person temporarily..not the unhappy lonely person at home....can anyone put a price on that......?....it wasn't about the money......she tragically went through the sale proceeds from her home...leaving just enough to bury herself when she passed in her early 80's......she actually stopped living a fair time before her passing...it was when her beloved husband died....they had always been so close.....
You don't get a rule book with old age....we all react differently...who can say what's right, wrong, or indeed stupid.....no-one... Good post Dorian..you highlighted many questions...without answers.....Hoo Roo
-- Edited by goldfinger on Tuesday 24th of May 2016 07:43:28 PM
-- Edited by goldfinger on Tuesday 24th of May 2016 07:45:16 PM
Trevor law said
07:57 PM May 24, 2016
OMG
Grandad5 said
12:27 PM May 25, 2016
Id like to both reminisce and put forward another point of view on gambling if none of you object. One of my main reasons for frequenting this forum is the opportunity to hear from people my own age or older with similar memories and share some with you.
I arrived in Australia in 1960 from Canada at the age of 10.
Apart from other obvious differences between the two countries (Especially this pounds shillings and pence nonsense) one difference that stood out was the old Ticket in Tatts thing. Almost everyone I knew had one regularly.
Previously, long ago, my Dad had explained the old numbers racket from the 1930s and how this was an illegal activity primarily because of the enormous odds against ever winning. At some point I learnt the odds against ever winning at Tatts were even greater than the old numbers game. As a naïve 10 year old I asked my Dad why was Tatts legal when the numbers racket wasnt. Shouldnt it be banned as well?
My Dad explained that he had never explained the positive part of both methods of gambling.
A very large chunk of the population of both countries lived a life of barely scraping by. Often through no fault of their own they were unable to finish high school and were therefore doomed to a life of struggling to pay the bills and literally living from week to week with no hope of ever substantially improving their life.
Their life certainly wasnt all bad and he pointed out many people who probably lived happier lives on limited income than some he knew in high paying jobs.
However, any hope of having a house of their own, or owning a decent car or sending their kids to university was nil.
But every Saturday they could buy a ticket in Tatts for just a few pence and every week they had a very real chance of winning an amount of money that could literally change their lives forever. The odds may be against them winning may be huge but the chance still existed in a very real sense. And with some people it was the only chance they may ever have. Why would you want to remove that from their lives?
Often we heard people look at something way out of their budget and say, When I win Tatts Ill buy one of them And the possibility of thet happening was very real.
Having a slim chance is immeasurably better than no chance at all.
Ok, things have changed since then. We have more opportunities to gamble than ever before and I personally think weve gone too far.
But that lesson from my Dad all those years ago still remains in my memory and tempers my attitude to gambling to this day.
Jim
goldfinger said
12:47 PM May 25, 2016
Man/Woman is a creature of 'hope'....if you remove 'hope' you often remove the spirit to live......its largely why suicide is now tragically endemic in Australia....individuals who have lost 'hope' in the current/ future.....same with Refugees they must be given a chance/glimmer of' hope' IMO.....Hoo Roo
-- Edited by goldfinger on Wednesday 25th of May 2016 12:52:59 PM
HunnyBunny said
04:07 PM May 25, 2016
I guess I have to look at this from another angle. I spent 23 years of my life involved with the racing industry. This industry fed, clothed & kept a roof over my children's heads. It offered us the opportunity to provide our children with a lifetime surrounded by beautiful horses, living on a lavish property in the beautiful countryside. It also offered my Son employment as a course curator. The racing industry employs thousands of people who are fortunate enough to enjoy & share their love of horses. As far as the punting side of the game goes, that's an individual choice! I also understand that the lonely & the desperate can get caught up in the punting lifestyle. Just as they can with alcohol & drugs. Where do we draw the line though? I guess all we can do is try our best to make sure that there are people to pick up the pieces & help those with addictive natures. Can we lay the paths they choose to take in life? I don't think so! I can only look at the positives that I have experienced & take from that. I guess what I am trying to say is.."you can't paint with a broad brush!"
Desert Dweller said
04:21 PM May 25, 2016
We visit many local clubs in small/medium sized towns along our way. Always good for a decent meal & glass of wine or two at a reasonable price. Never go near the pokies or TAB. Gambling is for mugs.
rockylizard said
06:53 PM May 25, 2016
Gday...
Cheers - John
rockylizard said
09:37 AM May 26, 2016
Gday...
This forum, as all forums should, welcomes a diversity of opinions and viewpoints.
Just because there are posts that express an opinion you disagree with doesn't mean the post/comment was not valid.
Cheers - and happy tolerant travelling - John
-- Edited by Webmaster on Saturday 28th of May 2016 07:53:17 AM
brickies said
04:43 PM May 26, 2016
Maybe the problem is some don't do enough traveling
dorian said
05:37 PM May 26, 2016
If there ever came a time when all I had to look forward to was Happy Hour or a flutter on the pokies, then I'd know that I had reached my expiry date.
When people retire, they should have a nest egg which should provide them with a comfortable lifestyle. At least that's what our governments tell us. At the club you can directly compare the consequences of people's lifestyle choices. On the one hand you have pensioners eating their meal at the buffet, while on the other hand there is the person who is eating crisps and feeding his lunch money to the pokies, hoping that a one-in-a-million windfall will rescue him from the misery of his remaining years. Maybe he should consider anaesthetising himself with a bottle of plonk. It would be a lot cheaper, especially at Aldi.
If you think that clubs exist for the benefit of society, then you have to ask yourself why they resist legislation which would impose betting limits. To me this suggests that they rely on problem gamblers for their continued prosperity.
The suggestion that betting on horses could be considered an investment is just so ludicrous that it beggars belief. However, I'm reminded that some years ago I responded, out of curiosity, to an advertisement in a local newspaper which touted an opportunity for "livestock investment". It turned out to be some scam involving computer software which promised to make you wealthy by "investing" at the racecourse. Why rely on the form guide when you can get inside knowledge via the Rivkin Report of racing?
As for a love of animals, I would rather that horses and dogs not be subjected to the rigours imposed by the racing industry. I especially hate to see horses collapsing on the track (remember the Melbourne Cup?). I also dislike equestrian events for the same reason.
Have you ever thought what happens to greyhounds when they've reached their use-by date? They're not put out to pasture with a nice retirement package -- their owners are not interested in pumping dead money into a depreciated asset. Instead they dump them on the public. In fact the local radio station often tries to convince listeners that [used] greyhounds make great pets.
On the subject of addiction, I had a friend who was barely surviving on a disability pension and who had no other source of income, or any assets. He became a pedestrian after his car was deemed unroadworthy. He survived the silly season of his youth without smoking or doing drugs, but relatively late in life began to smoke and is now hopelessly addicted. This is despite watching his father, who was a life-long chain smoker, eventually waste away from lung cancer. Worse still, he vehemently argues that there is no causal relationship between tobacco and cancer. He has several rotting teeth, but prefers to wait on the government waiting list for free dental care rather than forgo a month of nicotine and visit a dentist.
(Ironically someone very close to me shared first prize in a lottery. That's the limit of his gambling, though.)
It seems that the high price of alcohol at the clubs and bars is pushing young people toward illicit drug use. Oh, the irony.
Australia has some of the world's highest rates of illicit drug use per capita, ranking first for ecstasy, second for opioids, third for amphetamines, fourth for cocaine and seventh for cannabis, according to the UN report.
"Oceania [Australian and New Zealand] is something of an exception among the major consumer markets," the UN report states. Generally, cheaper drugs partner higher levels of use and vice versa.
But Australia is also one of the most expensive countries in which to buy alcohol, making substances such as ecstasy and cannabis a "sensible" economic choice for someone looking for a night on the town, leading Australian researchers say.
Cameron Duff of Monash University's School of Psychology and Psychiatry says young people frequently talk about the price of alcohol when explaining illicit drug use.
"The thing that comes through again and again is that party drugs, particularly ecstasy, are cheaper relative to alcohol," said Dr Duff, who has been researching cultural aspects of drug use for more than a decade.
"Young people are thinking the average night out at a bar can be $100 without even trying, whereas a couple of tablets of ecstasy is $40 or $50."
Greater awareness of the harms associated with alcohol and tobacco was also pushing some people towards ecstasy and cannabis, Dr Duff said.
Webmaster said
09:47 AM May 27, 2016
Hi all, Thanks for your input on this interesting topic but I think I will close this now. I would just like to reiterate that we welcome differing points of view on this forum and we encourage everyone to contribute to discussions in a positive way. However, please keep your comments focused on the topic itself, not on the person who posted it. Thanks.
Oh no, it's that day of the week. Once again I'm off to that great icon of Aussie cultcha, The Club. Personally, I'd rather stay home and have an intelligent conversation with myself, but as a carer, I have to attend to the needs of others. Thankfully they prefer the Chinese buffet, so at least I don't have to stomach meat pies or sausage rolls or whatever passes for food in those other dining areas.
Afterwards we sometimes relax in the lounge area. I say that loosely, because the room is surrounded by wall-to-wall monitors which display a dozen different ways for you to "flutter away" your earnings -- or your savings.
Usually at one corner of the lounge will be a group of pathetic old ducks scratching their tickets while some monotonous robot calls out the numbers that will see them go home with a fortune or a tray of pork chops.
Elsewhere some loser is recycling his pension through a poker machine while lunching on a bag of crisps. Mate, the buffet is that way. --->
At the next table some doddery octogenarian gets up from studying the form guide, stumbles to the bar, orders a schooner, and returns with a midi. After 80 years on the planet he still hasn't learnt that he'll always be a mug punter, and that the only people who make any money out of the nags and hounds are the crooks on the inside and their mates on the outside. At least he no longer has to watch some smarmy faced lowlife telling him that he knows what he wants.
Good old Aussie cultcha. Don't you just love it? Drugs, booze, hounds, nags, pokies and footy. That's life in God's country. Happy Hour anyone?
or is today just "one of those days"
Hi all,
Dorian, Just remember that once these people have left the planet and passed on, soon it will be your turn at the the club, pokes and bingo. I hope you end up with a 'carer' that has the same attatude as you and treats you with the same attention as what you are giveing now, just remember, we all will get old and one day it will be your turn 'for the wrong end of the stick'.
PS, I'm also a carer and i as well as the others that i work with ENJOY OUR WORK.
-- Edited by valiant81 on Tuesday 24th of May 2016 12:53:39 PM
-- Edited by valiant81 on Tuesday 24th of May 2016 12:52:43 PM
This topic is enough to make Oscar Wild Dorian. You have stirred them all up though, including me I suppose!!!
Hi dorian,
Nup. Doesn't work like that for us.
We go to the club each Thursday night and swip both members cards,Get our ticket each and put in the barrel for the $1000 cash giveaway. We have the coffee club within our club. We get two pots of tea for $4 sit back and wait till our name is pulled out and spin the cash wheel. The mugs playing the pokies pay us.
At the end of each month there is a $5000 giveaway to members. This Thursday night, is that day again.
You just have to love the pokies.
Jim & Lambie
Several years ago, after my father suffered his last heart attack, I quit my job, sold my house, and moved back home to be the live-in carer for my parents. If I had not done so, my father would now be dead and my mother would be in a home. I am doing my best to ensure that they live out their remaining days in the home that my father built.
I admit that I'm far from the perfect carer, but that's not because I don't care. In fact I have serious problems of my own, most of which are due to bad life experiences. There are days when I feel overwhelmed even before I get out of bed.
The reality is that none of us have ever liked clubs. My father has never been to a pub, let alone had a drink in one, nor has my mother. None of us have ever squandered a dollar in a poker machine, or wasted any money on a horse or a hound. The closest I come to gambling is when I purchase a lottery ticket as a gift. As far I'm concerned, the "racing" industry is a mechanism designed to transfer wealth from mug punters to "colourful racing identities". None of us want any part of it.
It is only since my mother began losing her faculties that she has developed a taste for buffets, so whilst I hate clubs, I love to make my mother happy. In fact my father, who does like buffets, would still prefer to have a sandwich at home (his bad back can't cope with a long drive). If we could find a local restaurant with a buffet, then that's where we would go.
Well, I guess that makes you the intelligent ones. I know of two women (I think they would be my cousins-in-law) who put their entire personal injury payouts (some several hundred thousand dollars) through poker machines. I don't know whether I should ridicule them or pity them. It does make me wonder about the system that allows it to happen, though.
I liked your post Dorian and you sound pretty 'together' to me mate.....
The simple fact that is missed by most Poker machine players is, here in Victoria and likely elsewhere is... they must pay back 87%...hello?.... therefore simple arithmetic means you are DEPRECIATING your money by 13% by playing consistantly.....
If you depreciate your money by 13% how can anyone turn a profit?......unless you play once, hit a big win, and then never play again....of course human nature means if that happens you are even more likely to continue to play consistantly.....and lose a guaranteed 13%.....
Moral: No-one but no-one, has ever made a profit by taking a 13% loss....
An elderly lady friend of mine, late 70's, lost her beloved husband....and she started going to the pokies regularly...she had always been such a sensible lady in life and business through the years...I asked her straight out why when she knew she had to lose at least 13%.....she replied she was so lonely...all the flashing lights, noises, and folk sitting round her, made her feel like a 'happy' person temporarily..not the unhappy lonely person at home....can anyone put a price on that......?....it wasn't about the money......she tragically went through the sale proceeds from her home...leaving just enough to bury herself when she passed in her early 80's......she actually stopped living a fair time before her passing...it was when her beloved husband died....they had always been so close.....
You don't get a rule book with old age....we all react differently...who can say what's right, wrong, or indeed stupid.....no-one...
Good post Dorian..you highlighted many questions...without answers.....Hoo Roo
-- Edited by goldfinger on Tuesday 24th of May 2016 07:43:28 PM
-- Edited by goldfinger on Tuesday 24th of May 2016 07:45:16 PM
I arrived in Australia in 1960 from Canada at the age of 10.
Apart from other obvious differences between the two countries (Especially this pounds shillings and pence nonsense) one difference that stood out was the old Ticket in Tatts thing. Almost everyone I knew had one regularly.
Previously, long ago, my Dad had explained the old numbers racket from the 1930s and how this was an illegal activity primarily because of the enormous odds against ever winning. At some point I learnt the odds against ever winning at Tatts were even greater than the old numbers game. As a naïve 10 year old I asked my Dad why was Tatts legal when the numbers racket wasnt. Shouldnt it be banned as well?
My Dad explained that he had never explained the positive part of both methods of gambling.
A very large chunk of the population of both countries lived a life of barely scraping by. Often through no fault of their own they were unable to finish high school and were therefore doomed to a life of struggling to pay the bills and literally living from week to week with no hope of ever substantially improving their life.
Their life certainly wasnt all bad and he pointed out many people who probably lived happier lives on limited income than some he knew in high paying jobs.
However, any hope of having a house of their own, or owning a decent car or sending their kids to university was nil.
But every Saturday they could buy a ticket in Tatts for just a few pence and every week they had a very real chance of winning an amount of money that could literally change their lives forever. The odds may be against them winning may be huge but the chance still existed in a very real sense. And with some people it was the only chance they may ever have. Why would you want to remove that from their lives?
Often we heard people look at something way out of their budget and say, When I win Tatts Ill buy one of them And the possibility of thet happening was very real.
Having a slim chance is immeasurably better than no chance at all.
Ok, things have changed since then. We have more opportunities to gamble than ever before and I personally think weve gone too far.
But that lesson from my Dad all those years ago still remains in my memory and tempers my attitude to gambling to this day.
Jim
Man/Woman is a creature of 'hope'....if you remove 'hope' you often remove the spirit to live......its largely why suicide is now tragically endemic in Australia....individuals who have lost 'hope' in the current/ future.....same with Refugees they must be given a chance/glimmer of' hope' IMO.....Hoo Roo
-- Edited by goldfinger on Wednesday 25th of May 2016 12:52:59 PM
I guess I have to look at this from another angle. I spent 23 years of my life involved with the racing industry. This industry fed, clothed & kept a roof over my children's heads. It offered us the opportunity to provide our children with a lifetime surrounded by beautiful horses, living on a lavish property in the beautiful countryside. It also offered my Son employment as a course curator. The racing industry employs thousands of people who are fortunate enough to enjoy & share their love of horses. As far as the punting side of the game goes, that's an individual choice! I also understand that the lonely & the desperate can get caught up in the punting lifestyle. Just as they can with alcohol & drugs. Where do we draw the line though? I guess all we can do is try our best to make sure that there are people to pick up the pieces & help those with addictive natures. Can we lay the paths they choose to take in life? I don't think so! I can only look at the positives that I have experienced & take from that. I guess what I am trying to say is.."you can't paint with a broad brush!"
Gday...
Cheers - John
Gday...
This forum, as all forums should, welcomes a diversity of opinions and viewpoints.
Just because there are posts that express an opinion you disagree with doesn't mean the post/comment was not valid.
Cheers - and happy tolerant travelling - John
-- Edited by Webmaster on Saturday 28th of May 2016 07:53:17 AM
When people retire, they should have a nest egg which should provide them with a comfortable lifestyle. At least that's what our governments tell us. At the club you can directly compare the consequences of people's lifestyle choices. On the one hand you have pensioners eating their meal at the buffet, while on the other hand there is the person who is eating crisps and feeding his lunch money to the pokies, hoping that a one-in-a-million windfall will rescue him from the misery of his remaining years. Maybe he should consider anaesthetising himself with a bottle of plonk. It would be a lot cheaper, especially at Aldi.
If you think that clubs exist for the benefit of society, then you have to ask yourself why they resist legislation which would impose betting limits. To me this suggests that they rely on problem gamblers for their continued prosperity.
The suggestion that betting on horses could be considered an investment is just so ludicrous that it beggars belief. However, I'm reminded that some years ago I responded, out of curiosity, to an advertisement in a local newspaper which touted an opportunity for "livestock investment". It turned out to be some scam involving computer software which promised to make you wealthy by "investing" at the racecourse. Why rely on the form guide when you can get inside knowledge via the Rivkin Report of racing?
As for a love of animals, I would rather that horses and dogs not be subjected to the rigours imposed by the racing industry. I especially hate to see horses collapsing on the track (remember the Melbourne Cup?). I also dislike equestrian events for the same reason.
Have you ever thought what happens to greyhounds when they've reached their use-by date? They're not put out to pasture with a nice retirement package -- their owners are not interested in pumping dead money into a depreciated asset. Instead they dump them on the public. In fact the local radio station often tries to convince listeners that [used] greyhounds make great pets.
On the subject of addiction, I had a friend who was barely surviving on a disability pension and who had no other source of income, or any assets. He became a pedestrian after his car was deemed unroadworthy. He survived the silly season of his youth without smoking or doing drugs, but relatively late in life began to smoke and is now hopelessly addicted. This is despite watching his father, who was a life-long chain smoker, eventually waste away from lung cancer. Worse still, he vehemently argues that there is no causal relationship between tobacco and cancer. He has several rotting teeth, but prefers to wait on the government waiting list for free dental care rather than forgo a month of nicotine and visit a dentist.
(Ironically someone very close to me shared first prize in a lottery. That's the limit of his gambling, though.)
Here's a twist:
http://www.smh.com.au/national/high-price-of-alcohol-drives-demand-for-illegal-drugs-20140810-102eo6.html
It seems that the high price of alcohol at the clubs and bars is pushing young people toward illicit drug use. Oh, the irony.
Hi all,
Thanks for your input on this interesting topic but I think I will close this now. I would just like to reiterate that we welcome differing points of view on this forum and we encourage everyone to contribute to discussions in a positive way. However, please keep your comments focused on the topic itself, not on the person who posted it. Thanks.