Just a warning. I tow a Jayco Westport full van 1998 model and it always felt a bit heavy.
So I emptied it out and sent it to my local registered weighbridge.
Net result is the true tare is 300 kg more than stated on the plate (1880 vs 1577)
How many caravanners have been caught out and fined because they were "overweight" I wonder.
Lucky for me the Westport has 4 braked wheels, but it means I have to instal a breakaway system to comply and maybe get an engineer to certify the true tare so I can carry more than two pairs of underpants to stay legal.
The regulations also note a vehicle including caravan has to include all its standard fitments and fluids apart from fuel and in the case of a van, water, in the tare weight. To me a van should include full gas bottles, battery, spare wheel and matresses in the tare because those are standard fittings.
Cheers
Rick
Hey Jim said
09:02 PM May 15, 2016
Hi Rick,
1998 = 18 years past. ???? Can the law be made Retrospective, to bring you van into todays regulations.
Our van delivered in Dec 2015 never stated that it would be fitted with breakaway system. I could not see it in the documentation. It was quoted as 1994kg. Delivered 2060kg and fitted with a breakaway system.
Dose this mean Jayco had to supply to comply, at their own cost. in our circumstance and then some.
Jim
Hylife said
09:09 PM May 15, 2016
rrakausk wrote:
Just a warning. I tow a Jayco Westport full van 1998 model and it always felt a bit heavy.
So I emptied it out and sent it to my local registered weighbridge.
Net result is the true tare is 300 kg more than stated on the plate (1880 vs 1577)
How many caravanners have been caught out and fined because they were "overweight" I wonder.
Lucky for me the Westport has 4 braked wheels, but it means I have to instal a breakaway system to comply and maybe get an engineer to certify the true tare so I can carry more than two pairs of underpants to stay legal.
The regulations also note a vehicle including caravan has to include all its standard fitments and fluids apart from fuel and in the case of a van, water, in the tare weight. To me a van should include full gas bottles, battery, spare wheel and matresses in the tare because those are standard fittings.
Cheers
Rick
The TARE is as it leaves the factory not as the dealer sold it. What length is yours and is it the lighter full height or the heavier poptop model?
I have a 1996 Westport 16 footer and it is spot on the TARE of 1080kg before I added all sorts of goodies like a microwave or a battery or an inner sprung mattress or a tankful of water.
I would probably think that if someone familiar with a 1998 van would look at yours, they would be able to pick up on all the things that didn't come from the factory back then
Delta18 said
09:55 PM May 15, 2016
Has the van been retro-fitted with battery(s) solar panels, heaters etc? These all will be on top of the factory Tare.
Desert Dweller said
05:32 AM May 16, 2016
The plated tare weight of our Avan poptop is wrong. It's out by the weight of the airconditioner & Dometic awning which were both factory fitted.
-- Edited by Desert Dweller on Monday 16th of May 2016 03:08:21 PM
rrakausk said
01:34 PM May 16, 2016
Thanks for the replies.
Mine is an 18 foot "semi off road" one owner Westport. Has the 6inch chassis and A-frame
I was at an RACQ sponsored weigh-in a few months ago on the Gold Coast and EVERY van was way overweight according to the transport Dept inspectors
conducting the tests (no fines btw just advice given). which is why I decided to check up on things.
Here is the relevant regulation - all states accede to commonwealth legislation for vans it seems
"Tare Mass is the total mass of the trailer when not carrying any load, but when ready for service, unoccupied (if relevant) and with all fluid reservoirs (if fitted) filled to nominal capacity except for fuel, which shall be 10 litres only, and with all standard equipment and any options fitted. This includes any mass imposed onto the drawing vehicle when the combination vehicle is resting on a horizontal supporting plane. (Fluid reservoirs do not include water tanks and waste water tanks fitted to caravans)."
it also refers to anything over 2 tonnes needing 4 braked wheels and a breakaway installed.
Funny how my van has 4 braked wheels as standard when if the ATM of 1977 was accurate, it would only need two.
I can't see Jayco giving away a complete braked axle assembly where a non braked one would suffice.
In my opinion a caravan without a bettery where it is set up to have one, a fridge where it is ready to instal one, a top mount air conditioner where installed
by the factory, gas piping and filled gas tanks, spare wheel and jack and a mattress on the factory fitted double bed is not "ready for service", despite these all being considered "standard equipment and any options fitted" by a sane caravan buyer.
I agree that a rollup awning is an extra, but mine doesn't wiegh in at 300 kg.
If an empty carcase is the true tare weight, then every caravan in Australia has a pretty low carrying capacity for personal "stuff" by the time
it is fitted out "ready for service with all standard equipment and any options fitted".
look I am not grizzling, it's just another minor incovenience and expense to get it sorted so when a scalie sticks me on his machine I don't cop a fine.
But other folks should be aware that understated tare weights can be an issue.
Bill B said
05:34 PM May 16, 2016
Water & Gas (empty bottles are included) aren't included in the tare weight of a caravan.
Bruce and Bev said
06:21 PM May 16, 2016
This topic came up big time on the Forum about 2 years ago and we had just bought a new Supreme van.
We decided to find out exactly what its weight was so took it to our local Regional Council weighbridge and it, like Ricks 'van was exactly 300 kg more than the VIN plate said.
We had emptied the 'van out completely, no water, taken off both 9kg gas bottle, but had fitted an additional 80 watt solar panel and one more battery (the other panels and battery were standard factory fitting for this model).
I'm sure one extra battery and solar panel don't add up to 300 kg.
We had it weighed twice and both times exactly 300kg over.
I bought the vehicle in WA from the largest RV dealer in the State. All their units come from the manufacturers un-registered and are supposed to go over the Dept of Transport "pits" for inspection and on the weighbridge. The Inspector then does the paperwork which goes through to their H/O and the RV is then registered for the 1st time. When I bailed up the salesman about it, he smiled sympathetically and said not many of them actually go over the pits. From that I can only assume that the DOT Inspectors have a very Merry Xmas !
The manufacturer was more than happy to issue a neww VIN plate which took up my ATM by 450kg, but I had to have it re-weighed and have the 'van inspected by a DOT agent who checked the braking systems, tyres and overall condition of the van. Cost to have the rego details changed = $200.
montie said
08:34 PM May 16, 2016
Bill B wrote:
Water & Gas (empty bottles are included) aren't included in the tare weight of a caravan.
The tare weight of a new van when it leaves the factory is the measured dry unladen weight.
The difference between this weight and the rated ATM is the maximum load including water, gas,belongings etc.,that you can put in your van.
ATM upgrades are available in some circumstances on request from the manufacturer when you order your new van at no charge.
Montie
rrakausk said
06:25 PM May 17, 2016
Got an engineer to upgrade to 2400 kg ATM. since the interior layout precludes stacking stuff over the axles in bulk I suspect we will never get near this weight.
Nice to have the flexibilty though.
cheers
Hylife said
08:28 PM May 17, 2016
rrakausk wrote:
Thanks for the replies.
Mine is an 18 foot "semi off road" one owner Westport. Has the 6inch chassis and A-frame
Yep 1500kg is about right for an 18footer tandem full height Westport with that heavier frame. I reckon there has been lots added to the van after it left the factory like shocks, bigger tanks, solar, battery, 2nd gas bottle etc, etc,
Too many mods can seriously use up your weight limits. West ports were made as a seriously "light" van with minimal extras. So many were modified by dealers at purchasers requests and back then dealers really didn't give a d@mn about weight because the plods didn't have the tech to test you out there on the road anyway. Pretty much every plod today still doesn't have the tech to test you and every weigh device I've seen used by plods haven't been tested for months and would fail any accuracy certification test anyway because of their low cost design and construction.
If you use a certified weighbridge you can believe that but under wheel scales are pretty much toys and wouldn't stand up in court should you wish to challenge the readings.
Really the simplest solution is know your tug and van limits and don't load over them, and if you are unsure, head to your local council refuse despoil facility (rubbish tip) for a free weigh-in. Knowing that they charge commercial disposal by weight, their scales have to be certified regularly, so you can be sure of an accurate weight. Drive your combination onto the platform, record the big digital display readout, then you unhook the van and drive the tug back over and record the tug weight. Subtract one from the other. Simple and free.
LLD said
08:55 PM May 17, 2016
My van has one weight etched on the compliance plate as it came off the line and another on the paperwork from the dealer that included options that the dealer had added sometime after it came off the line and before it went on display in the dealer yard.
Just a warning. I tow a Jayco Westport full van 1998 model and it always felt a bit heavy.
So I emptied it out and sent it to my local registered weighbridge.
Net result is the true tare is 300 kg more than stated on the plate (1880 vs 1577)
How many caravanners have been caught out and fined because they were "overweight" I wonder.
Lucky for me the Westport has 4 braked wheels, but it means I have to instal a breakaway system to comply and maybe get an engineer to certify the true tare so I can carry more than two pairs of underpants to stay legal.
The regulations also note a vehicle including caravan has to include all its standard fitments and fluids apart from fuel and in the case of a van, water, in the tare weight. To me a van should include full gas bottles, battery, spare wheel and matresses in the tare because those are standard fittings.
Cheers
Rick
Hi Rick,
1998 = 18 years past.
???? Can the law be made Retrospective, to bring you van into todays regulations.
Our van delivered in Dec 2015 never stated that it would be fitted with breakaway system. I could not see it in the documentation. It was quoted as 1994kg. Delivered 2060kg and fitted with a breakaway system.
Dose this mean Jayco had to supply to comply, at their own cost.
in our circumstance and then some.
Jim
The TARE is as it leaves the factory not as the dealer sold it. What length is yours and is it the lighter full height or the heavier poptop model?
I have a 1996 Westport 16 footer and it is spot on the TARE of 1080kg before I added all sorts of goodies like a microwave or a battery or an inner sprung mattress or a tankful of water.
I would probably think that if someone familiar with a 1998 van would look at yours, they would be able to pick up on all the things that didn't come from the factory back then
Has the van been retro-fitted with battery(s) solar panels, heaters etc? These all will be on top of the factory Tare.
The plated tare weight of our Avan poptop is wrong. It's out by the weight of the airconditioner & Dometic awning which were both factory fitted.
-- Edited by Desert Dweller on Monday 16th of May 2016 03:08:21 PM
Mine is an 18 foot "semi off road" one owner Westport. Has the 6inch chassis and A-frame
I was at an RACQ sponsored weigh-in a few months ago on the Gold Coast and EVERY van was way overweight according to the transport Dept inspectors
conducting the tests (no fines btw just advice given). which is why I decided to check up on things.
Here is the relevant regulation - all states accede to commonwealth legislation for vans it seems
infrastructure.gov.au/roads/vehicle_regulation/bulletin/vsb1/vsb_01_b.aspx
I refer to clause 12.7
"Tare Mass is the total mass of the trailer when not carrying any load, but when ready for service, unoccupied (if relevant) and with all fluid reservoirs (if fitted) filled to nominal capacity except for fuel, which shall be 10 litres only, and with all standard equipment and any options fitted. This includes any mass imposed onto the drawing vehicle when the combination vehicle is resting on a horizontal supporting plane. (Fluid reservoirs do not include water tanks and waste water tanks fitted to caravans)."
it also refers to anything over 2 tonnes needing 4 braked wheels and a breakaway installed.
Funny how my van has 4 braked wheels as standard when if the ATM of 1977 was accurate, it would only need two.
I can't see Jayco giving away a complete braked axle assembly where a non braked one would suffice.
In my opinion a caravan without a bettery where it is set up to have one, a fridge where it is ready to instal one, a top mount air conditioner where installed
by the factory, gas piping and filled gas tanks, spare wheel and jack and a mattress on the factory fitted double bed is not "ready for service", despite these all being considered "standard equipment and any options fitted" by a sane caravan buyer.
I agree that a rollup awning is an extra, but mine doesn't wiegh in at 300 kg.
If an empty carcase is the true tare weight, then every caravan in Australia has a pretty low carrying capacity for personal "stuff" by the time
it is fitted out "ready for service with all standard equipment and any options fitted".
look I am not grizzling, it's just another minor incovenience and expense to get it sorted so when a scalie sticks me on his machine I don't cop a fine.
But other folks should be aware that understated tare weights can be an issue.
We decided to find out exactly what its weight was so took it to our local Regional Council weighbridge and it, like Ricks 'van was exactly 300 kg more than the VIN plate said.
We had emptied the 'van out completely, no water, taken off both 9kg gas bottle, but had fitted an additional 80 watt solar panel and one more battery (the other panels and battery were standard factory fitting for this model).
I'm sure one extra battery and solar panel don't add up to 300 kg.
We had it weighed twice and both times exactly 300kg over.
I bought the vehicle in WA from the largest RV dealer in the State. All their units come from the manufacturers un-registered and are supposed to go over the Dept of Transport "pits" for inspection and on the weighbridge. The Inspector then does the paperwork which goes through to their H/O and the RV is then registered for the 1st time. When I bailed up the salesman about it, he smiled sympathetically and said not many of them actually go over the pits. From that I can only assume that the DOT Inspectors have a very Merry Xmas !
The manufacturer was more than happy to issue a neww VIN plate which took up my ATM by 450kg, but I had to have it re-weighed and have the 'van inspected by a DOT agent who checked the braking systems, tyres and overall condition of the van. Cost to have the rego details changed = $200.
The tare weight of a new van when it leaves the factory is the measured dry unladen weight.
The difference between this weight and the rated ATM is the maximum load including water, gas,belongings etc.,that you can put in your van.
ATM upgrades are available in some circumstances on request from the manufacturer when you order your new van at no charge.
Montie
Nice to have the flexibilty though.
cheers
Yep 1500kg is about right for an 18footer tandem full height Westport with that heavier frame.
I reckon there has been lots added to the van after it left the factory like shocks, bigger tanks, solar, battery, 2nd gas bottle etc, etc,
Too many mods can seriously use up your weight limits. West ports were made as a seriously "light" van with minimal extras. So many were modified by dealers at purchasers requests and back then dealers really didn't give a d@mn about weight because the plods didn't have the tech to test you out there on the road anyway.
Pretty much every plod today still doesn't have the tech to test you and every weigh device I've seen used by plods haven't been tested for months and would fail any accuracy certification test anyway because of their low cost design and construction.
If you use a certified weighbridge you can believe that but under wheel scales are pretty much toys and wouldn't stand up in court should you wish to challenge the readings.
Really the simplest solution is know your tug and van limits and don't load over them, and if you are unsure, head to your local council refuse despoil facility (rubbish tip) for a free weigh-in. Knowing that they charge commercial disposal by weight, their scales have to be certified regularly, so you can be sure of an accurate weight. Drive your combination onto the platform, record the big digital display readout, then you unhook the van and drive the tug back over and record the tug weight. Subtract one from the other. Simple and free.