We have an'84 Jayco popup. Friend gave us one of the above gizmo's. It has 2 bars on each side.
Found very hard to fit...hernia time almost. Now we see a lot of these with only 2 bars.
Q. Must we use all 4 or can we do 2?
hako said
06:11 PM May 5, 2016
If you are talking about the "shepherds crook" type of bars then we use 4 on our Avan Cruiser ATM 1140KG but can get away with 2 or none at all.....to tell the truth the only reason I do use them is because the "experts" say they make it safer, but I notice no difference on/off.....sorry to confuse matters. All WDH's work on the same principle by the way transferring weight from the rear wheels to the front - this means the el cheapo "shepherds crook" will perform basically the same as a Hayman Reese unit costing 8 times as much.
Good Luck.
Philw said
09:33 PM May 5, 2016
Kevin. I had the 4 bar on my Jayco caravan. Was busting my back until I worked out how to make it easier. Firstly wind up the jockey wheel as high as possible (with car and van coupled) . This makes the lift for the bars lighter. The second thing we did was to get a 30cm pipe that just slides over each bar, weld a small grab handle on the end and that gives you extra leverage when lifting each bar. Then use it to help pull up each bar which means your fingers are out of the way. Remember this. The only thing holding you van to the car is the ball and coupling, apart from the safety chains in an emergency. Having the 4 bars on straightens the van and car, if you have the correct tow bar, and it certainly kept our van straight and tracking true. Especially when a semi or a road train roars past. Oh, of course, when fitted, wind down the jocky wheel.lol... I removed them when reversing back up slopes as the bending pressure gets too severe and the bars can dig in. Good luck.
phil
ps use jocky wheel as well to remove. Lifting the van and car whilst coupled takes the weight off the bars as there is less downward pressure.
Snippy said
11:20 AM May 7, 2016
Thanks Denis and Phil W,
We towed from Sydney to Armidale without, van not loaded. Tail wagged the dog a bit. Armidale to Rathdowney, I think they made a difference.
The piece of pipe sounds like a plan.
Thanks guys.
PeterD said
04:20 PM May 7, 2016
Snippy wrote:
We have an'84 Jayco popup. Friend gave us one of the above gizmo's. It has 2 bars on each side.
'84 Jayco Pop-top. I suspect a Jayco of that age could have over-ride brakes. Does it or do you have an electric brake controller in your tug? If it has over-ride brakes then you should not be using shepherds crook bars.
PeterD said
04:30 PM May 7, 2016
hako wrote:
All WDH's work on the same principle by the way transferring weight from the rear wheels to the front - this means the el cheapo "shepherds crook" will perform basically the same as a Hayman Reese unit costing 8 times as much.
They may work on the same principle but they will not perform basically the same as a Hayman Reese unit costing 8 times as much. They only good for vans with ball weights of up to about 90 kg (despite being advertised for higher weights.) The HR bars take over at ball weights where the elcheapos run out of steam. Your comparison is like comparing a Hilux ute with a mack truck.
Maybe you did not notice much difference with bars on to bars off because you were using the wrong equipment.
Olley46 said
07:35 PM May 7, 2016
If you look up the Hayman Reece sight they will tell you the shepperd type are for light trailer single bar twin bar for very small caravan, I had the double bars on a 16ft Jayco Freedom they were not worth having,go the bigger ones.
Lance C
Radar said
08:37 PM May 7, 2016
Snippy wrote:
Thanks Denis and Phil W,
We towed from Sydney to Armidale without, van not loaded. Tail wagged the dog a bit. Armidale to Rathdowney, I think they made a difference.
The piece of pipe sounds like a plan.
Thanks guys.
The van you are towing is a light weight van would you kind enough to tell us the Weight and what type of vehicle you are towing it with so we can give you more help and economy ways to make it a safer tower.
hako said
08:19 AM May 8, 2016
PeterD wrote:
SNIP If it has over-ride brakes then you should not be using shepherds crook bars.
G'Day Peter, I acknowledge your experience but that advice covers all WDH's including Hayman-Reese....from the CaravansPlus site:
"Weight Distribution Hitches will inhibit manual override brakes working properly. You can still use the Hitches but you need to allow for harder braking. Of the more basic hitches, the CA type will allow better braking as the bars also slide in the brackets. The styles with chains will work, provided the chain is not too short when under tension."
Rgeards
Snippy said
09:23 AM May 8, 2016
Hi, yes it has electric brakes with a controller in the vehicle
Snippy said
09:26 AM May 8, 2016
Tare is 960kg, max loaded 2000kg. Weghbridge shows as 1700kg in present state.
Towing with AU Falcon wagon
PeterD said
05:13 PM May 8, 2016
hako wrote:
PeterD wrote:
SNIP If it has over-ride brakes then you should not be using shepherds crook bars.
G'Day Peter, I acknowledge your experience but that advice covers all WDH's including Hayman-Reese....from the CaravansPlus site:
"Weight Distribution Hitches will inhibit manual override brakes working properly. You can still use the Hitches but you need to allow for harder braking. Of the more basic hitches, the CA type will allow better braking as the bars also slide in the brackets. The styles with chains will work, provided the chain is not too short when under tension."
The OP only mentioned the shepherds crook bars so that's all I referred to. I have been around the van scene for many moons including when Tom Olthoff was the guru on the magazines (no internet back then.) His take on the shepherds crook bars were they were only good for a ball weight of 90 kg, he had done some practical tests and compared them with other devices. His advice was that the friction of the bars in the brackets impeded the action of over-ride brakes. Seems that the author of that quote was not in tune with his experience.
The big thing that impedes the action of surge (over-ride) brakes is the extra friction imposed on the sliding section of the surge coupling by the stresses imposed by the bars. This is the same friction that the bas impose on the hitch shank in the hitch receiver. Many users have demonstrated how good this friction is when they have forgotten to put the pin in place when hitching up. They have found that the shank had not moved at all when they arrived at their destination. Hayman Reese used to demonstrate this at Melbourne caravan shows way back. They used to couple up, pull the pin out and then do some manoeuvres with the rig. When they finished their driving demonstration they were able to replace the pin in its hole easily. If you can do that with the shank, how much chance has the surge coupling have of operating easily even if it has been greased?
There is no way I would use WDH of any type with surge brakes.
PeterD said
05:42 PM May 8, 2016
Snippy wrote:
Tare is 960kg, max loaded 2000kg. Weghbridge shows as 1700kg in present state.
Towing with AU Falcon wagon
Thanks for the reply Kevin, many don't reply with answers to our questions and leave us grasping in the dark.
In reply to your original question, I suggest using 4 bars is not enough assistance in the way of weight distribution. With a van of that weight it should have a ball weight much heavier than the capability of shepherds crook bars. You could have around 170 kg on the ball. With a weight like that I think you should consider using an efficient WDH. The industry towing guide states that your rig should be "fitted with Ford levelling kit." The ford levelling kit is a knock off of the HR classic series WDH.
Radar said
09:41 PM May 8, 2016
Snippy wrote:
Tare is 960kg, max loaded 2000kg. Weghbridge shows as 1700kg in present state.
Towing with AU Falcon wagon
Hi Snippy, good day.
I can see you have a budget caravan and a affordable tow vehicle with the bars you have you will improve the towing experience no end and make it more comfortable for you and your passengers.
Now the trick is make using them and to get tension on the same easier. As there is a couple of different version thats the next question to be answered.
The bars you have, are they shepperd hook style or are they straighter bar with a 90 deg bend that attachers to the car and chains hold the bars to the caravans A frame?
I personally use 2 of the 4 bar system but I am using a much heavier tow vehicle 2.6kgs towing a weigh bridged caravan 1970kgs and 180kgs on the ball (I am happy about that). From repeated experiments I happy with using just 2 of the bars, 4 made it to stiff, lost the comfort factor, a car with more flexiable suspension may need the 4 but I don't know, just guessing.
Now I have no degrees in engineering, for that matter any pieces of paper to say I attended any school, my knowledge is gained from real life experiences.
Hope this may help. But get back to us all with type of bars and we may be able to help you with a easier annd safe way of attaching.
Snippy said
07:23 AM May 10, 2016
PeterD wrote:
Snippy wrote:
Tare is 960kg, max loaded 2000kg. Weghbridge shows as 1700kg in present state.
Towing with AU Falcon wagon
Thanks for the reply Kevin, many don't reply with answers to our questions and leave us grasping in the dark.
In reply to your original question, I suggest using 4 bars is not enough assistance in the way of weight distribution. With a van of that weight it should have a ball weight much heavier than the capability of shepherds crook bars. You could have around 170 kg on the ball. With a weight like that I think you should consider using an efficient WDH. The industry towing guide states that your rig should be "fitted with Ford levelling kit." The ford levelling kit is a knock off of the HR classic series WDH.
Thanks Peter D,
This van has been towed by the previous owner for quite a few years with this setup. TJM saw the rig while doing work on the electrics and said all ok, so back to the original question...2 bars or 4.
Tow from Armidale to Rathdowney was stable and without incident. Max ball weight for my setup is 230 kg, actually more like 140 atm.
Snippy said
07:31 AM May 10, 2016
Radar wrote:
Snippy wrote:
Tare is 960kg, max loaded 2000kg. Weghbridge shows as 1700kg in present state.
Towing with AU Falcon wagon
Hi Snippy, good day.
I can see you have a budget caravan and a affordable tow vehicle with the bars you have you will improve the towing experience no end and make it more comfortable for you and your passengers.
Now the trick is make using them and to get tension on the same easier. As there is a couple of different version thats the next question to be answered.
The bars you have, are they shepperd hook style or are they straighter bar with a 90 deg bend that attachers to the car and chains hold the bars to the caravans A frame?
I personally use 2 of the 4 bar system but I am using a much heavier tow vehicle 2.6kgs towing a weigh bridged caravan 1970kgs and 180kgs on the ball (I am happy about that). From repeated experiments I happy with using just 2 of the bars, 4 made it to stiff, lost the comfort factor, a car with more flexiable suspension may need the 4 but I don't know, just guessing.
Now I have no degrees in engineering, for that matter any pieces of paper to say I attended any school, my knowledge is gained from real life experiences.
Hope this may help. But get back to us all with type of bars and we may be able to help you with a easier annd safe way of attaching.
Thanks Radar,
Shepard hook style.
My next tow will be about 300 km so will try it with 2 bars. As I mentioned, towed very nicely, just the hassle of hooking up the bars, but the piece of pipe idea should make life easier.
Radar said
11:42 AM May 10, 2016
Snippy wrote:
Radar wrote:
Snippy wrote:
Tare is 960kg, max loaded 2000kg. Weghbridge shows as 1700kg in present state.
Towing with AU Falcon wagon
Hi Snippy, good day.
I can see you have a budget caravan and a affordable tow vehicle with the bars you have you will improve the towing experience no end and make it more comfortable for you and your passengers.
Now the trick is make using them and to get tension on the same easier. As there is a couple of different version thats the next question to be answered.
The bars you have, are they shepperd hook style or are they straighter bar with a 90 deg bend that attachers to the car and chains hold the bars to the caravans A frame?
I personally use 2 of the 4 bar system but I am using a much heavier tow vehicle 2.6kgs towing a weigh bridged caravan 1970kgs and 180kgs on the ball (I am happy about that). From repeated experiments I happy with using just 2 of the bars, 4 made it to stiff, lost the comfort factor, a car with more flexiable suspension may need the 4 but I don't know, just guessing.
Now I have no degrees in engineering, for that matter any pieces of paper to say I attended any school, my knowledge is gained from real life experiences.
Hope this may help. But get back to us all with type of bars and we may be able to help you with a easier annd safe way of attaching.
Thanks Radar,
Shepard hook style.
My next tow will be about 300 km so will try it with 2 bars. As I mentioned, towed very nicely, just the hassle of hooking up the bars, but the piece of pipe idea should make life easier.
Our rego on van tares reads over 1100kgs, manufactor saids 1640kgs, weighbridged tared at 1710kgs,
Go for 2 but carry the 4 until you are happy with the set up.
Pipe extension will make all the difference fo putting them on and to remove the bars.
Enjoy your travels, glad we all can help with our views and experiences.
We have an'84 Jayco popup. Friend gave us one of the above gizmo's. It has 2 bars on each side.
Found very hard to fit...hernia time almost. Now we see a lot of these with only 2 bars.
Q. Must we use all 4 or can we do 2?
Good Luck.
phil
ps use jocky wheel as well to remove. Lifting the van and car whilst coupled takes the weight off the bars as there is less downward pressure.
We towed from Sydney to Armidale without, van not loaded. Tail wagged the dog a bit. Armidale to Rathdowney, I think they made a difference.
The piece of pipe sounds like a plan.
Thanks guys.
Have a look at the top three items on this page.
'84 Jayco Pop-top. I suspect a Jayco of that age could have over-ride brakes. Does it or do you have an electric brake controller in your tug? If it has over-ride brakes then you should not be using shepherds crook bars.
They may work on the same principle but they will not perform basically the same as a Hayman Reese unit costing 8 times as much. They only good for vans with ball weights of up to about 90 kg (despite being advertised for higher weights.) The HR bars take over at ball weights where the elcheapos run out of steam. Your comparison is like comparing a Hilux ute with a mack truck.
Maybe you did not notice much difference with bars on to bars off because you were using the wrong equipment.
If you look up the Hayman Reece sight they will tell you the shepperd type are for light trailer single bar twin bar for very small caravan, I had the double bars on a 16ft Jayco Freedom they were not worth having,go the bigger ones.
Lance C
The van you are towing is a light weight van would you kind enough to tell us the Weight and what type of vehicle you are towing it with so we can give you more help and economy ways to make it a safer tower.
G'Day Peter, I acknowledge your experience but that advice covers all WDH's including Hayman-Reese....from the CaravansPlus site:
"Weight Distribution Hitches will inhibit manual override brakes working properly. You can still use the Hitches but you need to allow for harder braking. Of the more basic hitches, the CA type will allow better braking as the bars also slide in the brackets. The styles with chains will work, provided the chain is not too short when under tension."
Rgeards
Hi, yes it has electric brakes with a controller in the vehicle
Tare is 960kg, max loaded 2000kg. Weghbridge shows as 1700kg in present state.
Towing with AU Falcon wagon
The OP only mentioned the shepherds crook bars so that's all I referred to. I have been around the van scene for many moons including when Tom Olthoff was the guru on the magazines (no internet back then.) His take on the shepherds crook bars were they were only good for a ball weight of 90 kg, he had done some practical tests and compared them with other devices. His advice was that the friction of the bars in the brackets impeded the action of over-ride brakes. Seems that the author of that quote was not in tune with his experience.
The big thing that impedes the action of surge (over-ride) brakes is the extra friction imposed on the sliding section of the surge coupling by the stresses imposed by the bars. This is the same friction that the bas impose on the hitch shank in the hitch receiver. Many users have demonstrated how good this friction is when they have forgotten to put the pin in place when hitching up. They have found that the shank had not moved at all when they arrived at their destination. Hayman Reese used to demonstrate this at Melbourne caravan shows way back. They used to couple up, pull the pin out and then do some manoeuvres with the rig. When they finished their driving demonstration they were able to replace the pin in its hole easily. If you can do that with the shank, how much chance has the surge coupling have of operating easily even if it has been greased?
There is no way I would use WDH of any type with surge brakes.
Thanks for the reply Kevin, many don't reply with answers to our questions and leave us grasping in the dark.
In reply to your original question, I suggest using 4 bars is not enough assistance in the way of weight distribution. With a van of that weight it should have a ball weight much heavier than the capability of shepherds crook bars. You could have around 170 kg on the ball. With a weight like that I think you should consider using an efficient WDH. The industry towing guide states that your rig should be "fitted with Ford levelling kit." The ford levelling kit is a knock off of the HR classic series WDH.
Hi Snippy, good day.
I can see you have a budget caravan and a affordable tow vehicle with the bars you have you will improve the towing experience no end and make it more comfortable for you and your passengers.
Now the trick is make using them and to get tension on the same easier. As there is a couple of different version thats the next question to be answered.
The bars you have, are they shepperd hook style or are they straighter bar with a 90 deg bend that attachers to the car and chains hold the bars to the caravans A frame?
I personally use 2 of the 4 bar system but I am using a much heavier tow vehicle 2.6kgs towing a weigh bridged caravan 1970kgs and 180kgs on the ball (I am happy about that). From repeated experiments I happy with using just 2 of the bars, 4 made it to stiff, lost the comfort factor, a car with more flexiable suspension may need the 4 but I don't know, just guessing.
Now I have no degrees in engineering, for that matter any pieces of paper to say I attended any school, my knowledge is gained from real life experiences.
Hope this may help. But get back to us all with type of bars and we may be able to help you with a easier annd safe way of attaching.
Thanks Peter D,
This van has been towed by the previous owner for quite a few years with this setup. TJM saw the rig while doing work on the electrics and said all ok, so back to the original question...2 bars or 4.
Tow from Armidale to Rathdowney was stable and without incident. Max ball weight for my setup is 230 kg, actually more like 140 atm.