How many caravans are fully self contained, all the new models are no doubt ,but how about the rest of the caravaning camper trailer society I worry about this fully self contained ,leave no trace , a huge amount of the caravanning society can't comply, the motor home automatically complies with this push !! Works out good for them,so what about everyone else !!! And that's a massive amount of good decent folk that will suffer from this ...
This is probably my last post as Iwill no doubt be torn apart by the pack..
Regards Ron...
The Phantom said
06:45 PM Apr 18, 2016
Maybe the ignorant will Ron but it is always best to identify and disregard them.
Following on from your comment, I rue the day we see the last of the oldtimers at out of the way beach campsites with their 15 or 16 footer with the canvas annex and bath towels on a home made rack along the side.
These people were/are the salt of the earth and have been caravanning forever. Each year they head off to their favorite spot and return when things begin to heat up.
I always enjoyed having a yarn with them.
No toilets or showers in their vans but the areas they camp in are a testament to the way they have looked after them for many years.
Long may they reign.
The Phantom
rockylizard said
06:56 PM Apr 18, 2016
Gday...
Ron, I am open to be corrected.....BUT ..... I very much doubt "all the new models" of caravan are 'grey-water tank equipped'.
Some maybe ... but not all.
When you see rest areas such as this used as "free camps" ... night after night after night ... then you can understand why communities are following the CMCA line of "Leave no Trace" and restrict the areas to "self-contained only" accordingly.
Ultimately, the need for these restrictions/limitations by councils and communities suffering this annual, and increasing, inundation is understandable.
Hopefully, the places I travel to, and camp in, will continue to not be as popular to the GN throng ... and I can enjoy "my style" of camping - in tranquil, relaxing and unrestricted camping areas.
Cheers - John
hako said
07:02 PM Apr 18, 2016
Just because a van is "fully self contained" does not mean that it will "leave no trace" or cause irritation to others when camped. Many run their generators all night, dump their holding tank contents where they wish, fill to overflowing council provided rubbish bins etc.
As always it depends on the individual and just because your van meets the requirements may be no guide to how you treat the environment.
Good post Ron.
Good Luck.
rockylizard said
07:13 PM Apr 18, 2016
Gday...
You are quite correct hako. That is the exact problem.
Despite what the good folk on this forum, and other fora like this one, think, there are still many who may be "self-contained" regarding grey and black water, but definitely don't "leave no trace".
The way too many leave the rest areas they "camp" at, makes one shake one's melon.
Cheers - John
Ron-D said
09:21 PM Apr 18, 2016
As a new member here you never know how people will react to your posts ,especially if the subject is divisive, but looks like Iam not the only one concerned about this push, Free camping in our great country is for everyone .
Just because you use a shower tent and a porta potie does not mean your environmental bandit
I have enjoyed reading the above posts very sensible and level Headed in my view...
Cheers Ron...
-- Edited by Ron-D on Monday 18th of April 2016 09:21:56 PM
-- Edited by Ron-D on Monday 18th of April 2016 09:24:00 PM
Hey Jim said
09:32 PM Apr 18, 2016
Hi Ron D,
Those that you feel, what to tear you apart. Are just bored,IMO with nothing better to do with their key pad.
Self contained is , in most new Rv's are an extra cost. We paid to go this way for the long haul and take advantage of a few less low cost council options.
If our tank fills to the limit, I can drain off an extra 20lts at a time, and dispose of in a proper manner.
I can't see why those who have a pota poti, plus one or two 20lt drums Eg: The type that pool colrine comes in, can't be used. And disposed of in the same way at the next drop point.
If its contained. Its Contained. How a council is going to govern this, is up in the clouds.
Regards Jim & Lambie
Ron-D said
09:57 PM Apr 18, 2016
Yeah Jim The shower tent and the porta potty are thing of the past for us as well ,last year I bought a new Nova caravan,with two 80 liter tanks.
No grey water as my ATM is on the limit . We carry drums to take care of this but who knows maybe this won't be good enough for some people (well they can go to hell )
Hey Jim said
10:09 PM Apr 18, 2016
Ron-D wrote:
Yeah Jim The shower tent and the porta potty are thing of the past for us as well ,last year I bought a new Nova caravan,with two 80 liter tanks.
No grey water as my ATM is on the limit . We carry drums to take care of this but who knows maybe this won't be good enough for some people (well they can go to hell )
Hi Ron D,
I would take the Councils on. IF. They issued an infringement and you were showen, to be doing the right thing.(Take a Photo for the point at hand) Where one has contained their grey /black water into a lockable container.
Where does it start and stop. If we were to knock over a half a can of golden necktor and a few mm hit the earth.
Ron-D said
11:29 PM Apr 18, 2016
Yeah taking your waste away to the dump point in the tug probably won't be good enough for some,but is this a storm in a tea cup, I have never come across a campsite that policed waste water and I don't know of anyone else that has...
No doubt there around but I wonder how many people have come across them...
It sort of reminds me about people being worried about being pulled over to have there rig weighed for being over the limit its probably never likely to happen.
Free camping is for all of us no matter what sort of rig we can afford , most people do the right thing , Ijust wish some of these well meaning groups would but out..
Ron...
Peter_n_Margaret said
11:24 AM Apr 19, 2016
It is good that this subject gets talked about a lot.
There are now many times more rigs out on the road than there ever were in the past and the number is still growing.
If we keep making a mess of our country like many have in the past, it will be intolerable.
We need to change our ways.
Some can see that, others can't. Those that can't will be increasingly unwelcome in more places.
We all have a choice.
Cheers,
Peter
Ron-D said
12:44 PM Apr 19, 2016
Your dead right as long as the powers that be realize there a lot of good people like my old mate doing the best they can to camp in a tidy manner, he can't afford the fancy new caravan or the paradise motor home but he's a better man then most of em !!,,
Is this fully self contained lets thin the excess amount of vans in free camps down attitude going to be at his expense think outside the square...
Ron...
Tony Bev said
05:24 PM Apr 19, 2016
Hello everyone I have no axes to grind, for or against being self contained. I have previously travelled in an old (no inbuilt grey water tank) caravan, and now have a second hand, self contained motorhome.
I fully agree with Peter n Margaret. Set out below are my own first hand observations.
My opinion (and I could be wrong), is that rules are made because there are normal people, and then there are people, who for whatever reason, do not do the right thing.
My first lap (2013/14) was towing an old caravan, without a grey water tank. But... I did have a bucket, funnel, and empty 15 litre water container. I personally never stopped at any paid sites. If I had been forced to stop at a self contained site, then I would have obeyed the rules, by having a basin bath, inside the caravan, instead of an outside shower in the pop up shower tent, with the grey water going into the water container. My sink water would have also found its way into the water container, via the funnel and bucket. As I was never in a self contained site, I distributed my grey water equally to nearby trees/bushes
At the Tamworth festival in January 2015, I spotted an old 21 seat bus type motorhome, with WA plates, in a bitumen car park, discharging shower water, (with plenty of soap bubbles) onto the bitumen. As another WA traveller, I was going to let them know that what they were doing was a NO, NO, (perhaps they had a broken pipe). By the time I had parked up, and walked back, an official (in khaki uniform), had got to them first. (I have no idea what the outcome was)
I have stopped at sites where I could plainly see that the travellers before me, had swept the floor of their vehicle, and left their rubbish, where it had fallen, on the ground, outside their door
In February 2014, I was camping at Beady Creek (near Glen Innes). The drop toilet smelled putrid. Other travellers told me that some undesirable, must have emptied their porta loo into it. There was a dump point at Glen Innes, nine kilometres away.
In July 2015 I camped at West Peawah River and ditto as above. The nearest dump point, (if you did not have a shovel), would have been Port Hedland 92 kilometres away.
My interpretation of the free camping rules, are that when the local councils get fed up of cleaning up after us travellers, or when we stop spending in their towns, they will close their free sites, due to economic restraints.
Just as some of us travellers, can not afford the cost of a caravan park each night, and therefore give them a miss. Some councils, will not be able to afford to keep sending staff to clean up the free sites, if we keep abusing them.
I think that Peter n Margaret have said it much better than I could, therefore ditto to that
Desert Dweller said
05:09 AM Apr 20, 2016
Leave only footprints, take only photos. We've seen lots of ''fully self contained'' campers armed with chainsaws hacking into the bush, their dogs running around disturbing the wildlife etc etc.
Totally agree that many ''free camping'' areas will be closed down in the future purely because of the massive number of retired people on the road travelling.
Friar Park said
10:06 PM Apr 21, 2016
Its not that difficult or expensive to make an old van compliant with most councils requirements. My van is 20 years old was not built with a toilet and shower inbuilt no grey or black water retention tanks. I put my own in (no I'm not bragging I just cannot afford for someone else to do the job). It cost about $300.00. I may not have the capacity to stay as long in some places as others can, but I can comply while I'm there. Therefore I too get very annoyed when I find others doing the wrong thing and, giving weak excuses for doing so.
Friar
Aus-Kiwi said
05:53 PM Apr 22, 2016
Ours is fully contained . But if it wasn't ? I do it myself . 20 -30 litre grey water container and empty regular with bucket etc ..
How many caravans are fully self contained, all the new models are no doubt ,but how about the rest of the caravaning camper trailer society I worry about this fully self contained ,leave no trace , a huge amount of the caravanning society can't comply, the motor home automatically complies with this push !! Works out good for them,so what about everyone else !!! And that's a massive amount of good decent folk that will suffer from this ...
This is probably my last post as Iwill no doubt be torn apart by the pack..
Regards Ron...
Maybe the ignorant will Ron but it is always best to identify and disregard them.
Following on from your comment, I rue the day we see the last of the oldtimers at out of the way beach campsites with their 15 or 16 footer with the canvas annex and bath towels on a home made rack along the side.
These people were/are the salt of the earth and have been caravanning forever. Each year they head off to their favorite spot and return when things begin to heat up.
I always enjoyed having a yarn with them.
No toilets or showers in their vans but the areas they camp in are a testament to the way they have looked after them for many years.
Long may they reign.
The Phantom
Gday...
Ron, I am open to be corrected.....BUT ..... I very much doubt "all the new models" of caravan are 'grey-water tank equipped'.
Some maybe ... but not all.
When you see rest areas such as this used as "free camps" ... night after night after night ... then you can understand why communities are following the CMCA line of "Leave no Trace" and restrict the areas to "self-contained only" accordingly.
Ultimately, the need for these restrictions/limitations by councils and communities suffering this annual, and increasing, inundation is understandable.
Hopefully, the places I travel to, and camp in, will continue to not be as popular to the GN throng ... and I can enjoy "my style" of camping - in tranquil, relaxing and unrestricted camping areas.
Cheers - John
As always it depends on the individual and just because your van meets the requirements may be no guide to how you treat the environment.
Good post Ron.
Good Luck.
Gday...
You are quite correct hako. That is the exact problem.
Despite what the good folk on this forum, and other fora like this one, think, there are still many who may be "self-contained" regarding grey and black water, but definitely don't "leave no trace".
The way too many leave the rest areas they "camp" at, makes one shake one's melon.
Cheers - John
As a new member here you never know how people will react to your posts ,especially if the subject is divisive, but looks like Iam not the only one concerned about this push, Free camping in our great country is for everyone .
Just because you use a shower tent and a porta potie does not mean your environmental bandit
I have enjoyed reading the above posts very sensible and level Headed in my view...
Cheers Ron...
-- Edited by Ron-D on Monday 18th of April 2016 09:21:56 PM
-- Edited by Ron-D on Monday 18th of April 2016 09:24:00 PM
Hi Ron D,
Those that you feel, what to tear you apart. Are just bored,IMO with nothing better to do with their key pad.
Self contained is , in most new Rv's are an extra cost. We paid to go this way for the long haul and take advantage of a few less low cost council options.
If our tank fills to the limit, I can drain off an extra 20lts at a time, and dispose of in a proper manner.
I can't see why those who have a pota poti, plus one or two 20lt drums Eg: The type that pool colrine comes in, can't be used. And disposed of in the same way at the next drop point.
If its contained. Its Contained. How a council is going to govern this, is up in the clouds.
Regards Jim & Lambie
Yeah Jim The shower tent and the porta potty are thing of the past for us as well ,last year I bought a new Nova caravan,with two 80 liter tanks.
No grey water as my ATM is on the limit . We carry drums to take care of this but who knows maybe this won't be good enough for some people (well they can go to hell
)
Hi Ron D,
I would take the Councils on. IF. They issued an infringement and you were showen, to be doing the right thing.(Take a Photo for the point at hand) Where one has contained their grey /black water into a lockable container.
Where does it start and stop. If we were to knock over a half a can of golden necktor and a few mm hit the earth.
Yeah taking your waste away to the dump point in the tug probably won't be good enough for some,but is this a storm in a tea cup, I have never come across a campsite that policed waste water and I don't know of anyone else that has...
No doubt there around but I wonder how many people have come across them...
It sort of reminds me about people being worried about being pulled over to have there rig weighed for being over the limit its probably never likely to happen.
Free camping is for all of us no matter what sort of rig we can afford , most people do the right thing , Ijust wish some of these well meaning groups would but out..
Ron...
There are now many times more rigs out on the road than there ever were in the past and the number is still growing.
If we keep making a mess of our country like many have in the past, it will be intolerable.
We need to change our ways.
Some can see that, others can't. Those that can't will be increasingly unwelcome in more places.
We all have a choice.
Cheers,
Peter
Your dead right as long as the powers that be realize there a lot of good people like my old mate doing the best they can to camp in a tidy manner, he can't afford the fancy new caravan or the paradise motor home but he's a better man then most of em !!,,
Is this fully self contained lets thin the excess amount of vans in free camps down attitude going to be at his expense think outside the square...
Ron...
Hello everyone
I have no axes to grind, for or against being self contained.
I have previously travelled in an old (no inbuilt grey water tank) caravan, and now have a second hand, self contained motorhome.
I fully agree with Peter n Margaret. Set out below are my own first hand observations.
My opinion (and I could be wrong), is that rules are made because there are normal people, and then there are people, who for whatever reason, do not do the right thing.
My first lap (2013/14) was towing an old caravan, without a grey water tank. But... I did have a bucket, funnel, and empty 15 litre water container.
I personally never stopped at any paid sites.
If I had been forced to stop at a self contained site, then I would have obeyed the rules, by having a basin bath, inside the caravan, instead of an outside shower in the pop up shower tent, with the grey water going into the water container.
My sink water would have also found its way into the water container, via the funnel and bucket.
As I was never in a self contained site, I distributed my grey water equally to nearby trees/bushes
At the Tamworth festival in January 2015, I spotted an old 21 seat bus type motorhome, with WA plates, in a bitumen car park, discharging shower water, (with plenty of soap bubbles) onto the bitumen. As another WA traveller, I was going to let them know that what they were doing was a NO, NO, (perhaps they had a broken pipe). By the time I had parked up, and walked back, an official (in khaki uniform), had got to them first. (I have no idea what the outcome was)
I have stopped at sites where I could plainly see that the travellers before me, had swept the floor of their vehicle, and left their rubbish, where it had fallen, on the ground, outside their door
In February 2014, I was camping at Beady Creek (near Glen Innes). The drop toilet smelled putrid. Other travellers told me that some undesirable, must have emptied their porta loo into it.
There was a dump point at Glen Innes, nine kilometres away.
In July 2015 I camped at West Peawah River and ditto as above. The nearest dump point, (if you did not have a shovel), would have been Port Hedland 92 kilometres away.
My interpretation of the free camping rules, are that when the local councils get fed up of cleaning up after us travellers, or when we stop spending in their towns, they will close their free sites, due to economic restraints.
Just as some of us travellers, can not afford the cost of a caravan park each night, and therefore give them a miss. Some councils, will not be able to afford to keep sending staff to clean up the free sites, if we keep abusing them.
I think that Peter n Margaret have said it much better than I could, therefore ditto to that
Totally agree that many ''free camping'' areas will be closed down in the future purely because of the massive number of retired people on the road travelling.
Its not that difficult or expensive to make an old van compliant with most councils requirements. My van is 20 years old was not built with a toilet and shower inbuilt no grey or black water retention tanks. I put my own in (no I'm not bragging I just cannot afford for someone else to do the job). It cost about $300.00. I may not have the capacity to stay as long in some places as others can, but I can comply while I'm there. Therefore I too get very annoyed when I find others doing the wrong thing and, giving weak excuses for doing so.
Friar