Found this re batteries. "A multimeter cannot provide you accurate enough information, as it's main function is to give you a volt reading at any point in time and that is all it is capable of doing. So we have a problem here, is there a REAL way of knowing if your battery is performing properly?
YES! These devices are know as Coolum Counters or Current Counters and may go by other names too. The way that these devices work is they connect in-line between your battery and ALL of the appliances you use. Effectively, all current and volts (in and out) of your battery are monitored and calculated. By using an algorithm that measures battery volts and current draw (amps) and then calculating these two important factors based on time, these devices can determine whether your battery is running optimally or whether it's health has deteriorated and by how much.
Having a device that can count the amps in and out of your battery and report its health in real time gives you a much better picture of what is actually going on with your power system. It can help you determine any issues, help you gauge whether you may need additional batteries and can also help determine if your chargers and solar panel are working properly, therefore providing clear and concise information about your battery and power system."
Aussie Paul.
greyhoundtom said
12:58 PM Mar 8, 2016
Bugger I don't want to know.
Before joining this site I used to tow a caravan all over the place with never a care or worry about weights, compliance plates, weight and load distribution all in blissfull ignorance.
That blissfull ignorance included not worrying about the size or quality of the inverter I was using, or state of the batteries. Twenty years worth of traveling every winter getting out of bloody cold Victoria, and other than a shredded tire every three or four years, and a few speeding tickets, never a problem.
Now I'm a nervous wreck trying to get the whole rig legal, ensuring there is enough solar to keep the batteries charged, and adjusting the loading of the van to reduce the weight front and back.
Still undecided about grey water storage facility, but I really can't afford the weight of even the tank itself. Now there is a bit of pressure on me to make sure the aircon can be turned on if required when free camping, but then where do I put the generator and if I take it is this going to make me the most disliked camper in the free camp?
it sounds like a great idea Paul, bu as I said ...... bugger, I don't want to know or want anything else I need to monitor, look at or worry about.
aussie_paul said
02:10 PM Mar 8, 2016
Yeah, I know how you feel Tom!!!!!!
Aussie Paul.
oldtrack123 said
10:06 PM Mar 8, 2016
Hi It would be great If they could get the name right
But really does not tell you any more than Amphr meter[except the numbers will be a lot bigger]
"Coulomb's law, or Coulomb's inverse-square law, is a law of physics describing the electrostatic interaction between electrically charged particles. The law was first published in 1785 by French physicist Charles Augustin de Coulomb and was essential to the development of the theory of electromagnetism "
-- Edited by oldtrack123 on Tuesday 8th of March 2016 10:09:05 PM
dorian said
10:12 AM Mar 9, 2016
A Coulomb is the unit of charge, not energy. The Joule is the unit of energy.
The coulomb (unit symbol: C) is the International System of Units (SI) unit of electric charge. It is the charge (symbol: Q or q) transported by a constant current of one ampere in one second.
1C is equivalent to the charge of approximately 6.242×10^18 electrons.
The coulomb (symbolized C) is the standard unit of electric charge in the International System of Units (SI). It is a dimensionless quantity [WRONG], sharing this aspect with the mole [the mole IS dimensionless]. A quantity of 1 C is equal to approximately 6.24 x 1018, or 6.24 quintillion. [WRONG]
oldtrack123 said
11:12 AM Mar 9, 2016
Hi
YES correct it is not a unit of Electrical energy as that requires voltage in the equation
Which ever way it goes ,a simple Amphr or Watthr meter is more practical.
But for most users a good Voltmeter connected direct to the battery on it's own circuit & understanding what the readings mean is good enough !!
-- Edited by oldtrack123 on Wednesday 9th of March 2016 11:20:57 AM
brickies said
11:15 AM Mar 9, 2016
I am with Tom I brought my caravan new ask the dealer to set up the tow bar and WDH , They also set up the in house battery and charger , I felt good vibe in our talks about what we need in the build of the caravan and just trusted the the man , We have had the caravan for 8 years don't look for faults , If it breaks just fix it and enjoy the caravan , I had the caravan serviced recently by Jacks mobile caravan service in Brisbane and ask him to check the whole thing out and good report I trust him so I will just enjoy the life on the road , And don't feel bad that I don't own a multi meter . Sometime it better to leave it to the expert and have less stress .
A coulomb cannot be expressed in amps per second. The two quantities have dissimilar dimensions.
1 coulomb per second = 1 ampere
oldtrack123 said
11:27 AM Mar 9, 2016
brickies wrote:
I am with Tom I brought my caravan new ask the dealer to set up the tow bar and WDH , They also set up the in house battery and charger , I felt good vibe in our talks about what we need in the build of the caravan and just trusted the the man , We have had the caravan for 8 years don't look for faults , If it breaks just fix it and enjoy the caravan , I had the caravan serviced recently by Jacks mobile caravan service in Brisbane and ask him to check the whole thing out and good report I trust him so I will just enjoy the life on the road , And don't feel bad that I don't own a multi meter . Sometime it better to leave it to the expert and have less stress .
Hi
How do you know the state of charge of your batteries?
How do you know if they have seriously lost capacity?
If you bush camp , how do you know when the batteries are getting too low in charge & may be permanently damaged by further use?
Of course if you mainly use MAINS power /Cps the above may not present any problems
Yes I have found that with a good voltmeter and a bit of experience i can see what my batteries are doing at a glance. My wife can too
I have an expensive one which has a(2) row of LED lights, 15 I think and different colours not just a couple, and it is easy to see at a glance. A digital meter is accurate but needs some brain conversion when you look at it and most do not really understand it.
Jaahn
aussie_paul said
12:26 PM Mar 9, 2016
Last night I disconnected the solar from the controller at around 9pm. The voltage was 13.0. At midday today the voltage was 12.8. The only current being drawn was for a couple of digital volt meters and the LCD controller scrolling. How does this stack up?
Aussie Paul.
03_Troopy said
02:57 PM Mar 9, 2016
Coolum is a beach in QLD
oldtrack123 said
04:37 PM Mar 9, 2016
aussie_paul wrote:
Last night I disconnected the solar from the controller at around 9pm. The voltage was 13.0. At midday today the voltage was 12.8. The only current being drawn was for a couple of digital volt meters and the LCD controller scrolling. How does this stack up?
Aussie Paul.
HI Paul
That would indicate that whatever capacity the Battery has ,THAT capacity is FULLY charged.
aussie_paul said
05:09 PM Mar 9, 2016
oldtrack123 wrote:
aussie_paul wrote:
Last night I disconnected the solar from the controller at around 9pm. The voltage was 13.0. At midday today the voltage was 12.8. The only current being drawn was for a couple of digital volt meters and the LCD controller scrolling. How does this stack up?
Aussie Paul.
HI Paul
That would indicate that whatever capacity the Battery has ,THAT capacity is FULLY charged.
Thanks oldtrack, can I assume that the batteries are in reasonable condition?
Aussie Paul.
oldtrack123 said
12:13 PM Mar 10, 2016
Hi Paul
That is the catch.
It lies with"That would indicate that whatever capacity the Battery has ,THAT capacity is FULLY charged"
It purely indicates that WHAT EVER CAPACITY THE BATTERY MAY NOW HAVE is fully charged.
As a battery ages it looses capacity [that can be due to many reasons]so a 100Ahr battery when new can slowly loose charge capacity until it becomes useless [say now only 10Ahrs capacity] but that will still charge up fully by voltage.
aussie_paul said
03:17 PM Mar 10, 2016
oldtrack123 wrote:
Hi Paul That is the catch. It lies with"That would indicate that whatever capacity the Battery has ,THAT capacity is FULLY charged"
It purely indicates that WHAT EVER CAPACITY THE BATTERY MAY NOW HAVE is fully charged. As a battery ages it looses capacity [that can be due to many reasons]so a 100Ahr battery when new can slowly loose charge capacity until it becomes useless [say now only 10Ahrs capacity] but that will still charge up fully by voltage.
Ok oldtrack123, today it is still 12.8. If battery is getting stuffed would it lose voltage unloaded?
Aussie Paul.
oldtrack123 said
03:38 PM Mar 10, 2016
aussie_paul wrote:
oldtrack123 wrote:
Hi Paul That is the catch. It lies with"That would indicate that whatever capacity the Battery has ,THAT capacity is FULLY charged"
It purely indicates that WHAT EVER CAPACITY THE BATTERY MAY NOW HAVE is fully charged. As a battery ages it looses capacity [that can be due to many reasons]so a 100Ahr battery when new can slowly loose charge capacity until it becomes useless [say now only 10Ahrs capacity] but that will still charge up fully by voltage.
Ok oldtrack123, today it is still 12.8. If battery is getting stuffed would it lose voltage unloaded?
Aussie Paul.
Hi Paul
No, Not quickly, if it has only lost capacity
It will loose voltage with no load, IF it has high internal electrical leakage
A shorted or partially shorted plate
Excess sludge in the bottom ,again partially shorting plates
aussie_paul said
03:50 PM Mar 10, 2016
Hi Paul
No, Not quickly, if it has only lost capacity
It will loose voltage with no load, IF it has high internal electrical leakage
A shorted or partially shorted plate
Excess sludge in the bottom ,again partially shorting plates
Like a I'm sure a lot of people are, I was under the impression that if a battery, after having been fully charged lost voltage quickly, it was time to start looking for a replacement.
While that is still obviously an indicator, I was not aware that a battery could hold voltage for a period of time and still be stuffed due to the fact that it had lost CAPACITY.
oldtrack123 said
12:03 PM Mar 11, 2016
greyhoundtom wrote:
There you go ...... more very useful information.
Like a I'm sure a lot of people are, I was under the impression that if a battery, after having been fully charged lost voltage quickly, it was time to start looking for a replacement.
While that is still obviously an indicator, I was not aware that a battery could hold voltage for a period of time and still be stuffed due to the fact that it had lost CAPACITY.
Hi Tom
I think there are of lot of people who do not understand lost capacity
Just a little bit more on THAT
It is quite common with sulphated batteries ,where the active area is reduced by heavy sulphation
also batteries which have lost active material from the plates
Phil C said
11:09 AM Mar 14, 2016
Gday gang
When I was in the RAAF the best way to test a battery was on load (eg 10 hour rate) measure the voltage after a time and calculate the state of health of the battery. The very best way was a constant load until the battery was flat or a preset low voltage, that gave us a percentage capacity of the battery.
I do believe there are such devices available today to test the on load state of the battery and calculate the health of it. Just saying....
Found this re batteries. "A multimeter cannot provide you accurate enough information, as it's main function is to give you a volt reading at any point in time and that is all it is capable of doing. So we have a problem here, is there a REAL way of knowing if your battery is performing properly?
YES! These devices are know as Coolum Counters or Current Counters and may go by other names too. The way that these devices work is they connect in-line between your battery and ALL of the appliances you use. Effectively, all current and volts (in and out) of your battery are monitored and calculated. By using an algorithm that measures battery volts and current draw (amps) and then calculating these two important factors based on time, these devices can determine whether your battery is running optimally or whether it's health has deteriorated and by how much.
Having a device that can count the amps in and out of your battery and report its health in real time gives you a much better picture of what is actually going on with your power system. It can help you determine any issues, help you gauge whether you may need additional batteries and can also help determine if your chargers and solar panel are working properly, therefore providing clear and concise information about your battery and power system."
Aussie Paul.
Bugger I don't want to know.
Before joining this site I used to tow a caravan all over the place with never a care or worry about weights, compliance plates, weight and load distribution all in blissfull ignorance.
That blissfull ignorance included not worrying about the size or quality of the inverter I was using, or state of the batteries. Twenty years worth of traveling every winter getting out of bloody cold Victoria, and other than a shredded tire every three or four years, and a few speeding tickets, never a problem.
Now I'm a nervous wreck trying to get the whole rig legal, ensuring there is enough solar to keep the batteries charged, and adjusting the loading of the van to reduce the weight front and back.
Still undecided about grey water storage facility, but I really can't afford the weight of even the tank itself. Now there is a bit of pressure on me to make sure the aircon can be turned on if required when free camping, but then where do I put the generator and if I take it is this going to make me the most disliked camper in the free camp?
it sounds like a great idea Paul, bu as I said ...... bugger, I don't want to know or want anything else I need to monitor, look at or worry about.
Yeah, I know how you feel Tom!!!!!!
Aussie Paul.
Hi
It would be great If they could get the name right
"Coulomb"
It is a basic unit of energy
http://www.convertunits.com/
But really does not tell you any more than Amphr meter[except the numbers will be a lot bigger]
"Coulomb's law, or Coulomb's inverse-square law, is a law of physics describing the electrostatic interaction between electrically charged particles. The law was first published in 1785 by French physicist Charles Augustin de Coulomb and was essential to the development of the theory of electromagnetism
"
-- Edited by oldtrack123 on Tuesday 8th of March 2016 10:09:05 PM
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coulomb
BTW, Google's first result is seriously wrong.
whatis.techtarget.com/definition/coulomb
Hi
YES correct it is not a unit of Electrical energy as that requires voltage in the equation
Which ever way it goes ,a simple Amphr or Watthr meter is more practical.
But for most users a good Voltmeter connected direct to the battery on it's own circuit & understanding what the readings mean is good enough !!
www.convertunits.com/from/ampere/to/coulomb/second
-- Edited by oldtrack123 on Wednesday 9th of March 2016 11:20:57 AM
A coulomb cannot be expressed in amps per second. The two quantities have dissimilar dimensions.
1 coulomb per second = 1 ampere
Hi
How do you know the state of charge of your batteries?
How do you know if they have seriously lost capacity?
If you bush camp , how do you know when the batteries are getting too low in charge & may be permanently damaged by further use?
Of course if you mainly use MAINS power /Cps the above may not present any problems
Note, I corrected that 9 minutes before your reply
-- Edited by oldtrack123 on Wednesday 9th of March 2016 11:34:01 AM
Hi,
Yes I have found that with a good voltmeter and a bit of experience i can see what my batteries are doing at a glance. My wife can too
I have an expensive one which has a(2) row of LED lights, 15 I think and different colours not just a couple, and it is easy to see at a glance. A digital meter is accurate but needs some brain conversion when you look at it and most do not really understand it.
Jaahn
Last night I disconnected the solar from the controller at around 9pm. The voltage was 13.0. At midday today the voltage was 12.8. The only current being drawn was for a couple of digital volt meters and the LCD controller scrolling. How does this stack up?
Aussie Paul.
HI Paul
That would indicate that whatever capacity the Battery has ,THAT capacity is FULLY charged.
Thanks oldtrack, can I assume that the batteries are in reasonable condition?
Aussie Paul.
Hi Paul
That is the catch.
It lies with"That would indicate that whatever capacity the Battery has ,THAT capacity is FULLY charged"
It purely indicates that WHAT EVER CAPACITY THE BATTERY MAY NOW HAVE is fully charged.
As a battery ages it looses capacity [that can be due to many reasons]so a 100Ahr battery when new can slowly loose charge capacity until it becomes useless [say now only 10Ahrs capacity] but that will still charge up fully by voltage.
Ok oldtrack123, today it is still 12.8. If battery is getting stuffed would it lose voltage unloaded?
Aussie Paul.
Hi Paul
No, Not quickly, if it has only lost capacity
It will loose voltage with no load, IF it has high internal electrical leakage
A shorted or partially shorted plate
Excess sludge in the bottom ,again partially shorting plates
Thanks oldtrack123.
Aussie Paul.
There you go ...... more very useful information.
Like a I'm sure a lot of people are, I was under the impression that if a battery, after having been fully charged lost voltage quickly, it was time to start looking for a replacement.
While that is still obviously an indicator, I was not aware that a battery could hold voltage for a period of time and still be stuffed due to the fact that it had lost CAPACITY.
Hi Tom
I think there are of lot of people who do not understand lost capacity
Just a little bit more on THAT
It is quite common with sulphated batteries ,where the active area is reduced by heavy sulphation
also batteries which have lost active material from the plates
When I was in the RAAF the best way to test a battery was on load (eg 10 hour rate) measure the voltage after a time and calculate the state of health of the battery. The very best way was a constant load until the battery was flat or a preset low voltage, that gave us a percentage capacity of the battery.
I do believe there are such devices available today to test the on load state of the battery and calculate the health of it. Just saying....
Cheers from Esperance WA on our way to Perth