I am looking at the "Fiamma Roll Tank", would these pass at "Self contained" free camping sites?, they are wheeled plastic tanks that sit on the ground to collect the grey water. Is there any up-dated info. on what or what not to have to satisfy the requirements?
Hey Jim said
09:35 PM Feb 27, 2016
iana wrote:
I am looking at the "Fiamma Roll Tank", would these pass at "Self contained" free camping sites?, they are wheeled plastic tanks that sit on the ground to collect the grey water. Is there any up-dated info. on what or what not to have to satisfy the requirements?
Hi Ian,
We have shares in a number of associated Companies that our broker put us onto that may be of interest to you and others here.
They are the Union Can Company.
British Perforated Tissue Paper.
Metropolitan Gas Co Ltd.
Metrolitan Water Co.
Due to uncertain conditions of the Grey Water market at present, they would advise GN's to sit on your Union Can, hold your water, and let your gas go.
You will no doubt be interested to know that British Tissue touched a new bottom to-day and thousands were wiped clean.
I hope this helps.
Regards Hey Jim
OwenK said
09:47 PM Feb 27, 2016
Hi Ian, I have one of those grey water tanks, yeah they're all you need and so handy.
Cheers Owen.
OwenK said
09:58 PM Feb 27, 2016
Sorry Ian, I was interrupted by my beautiful wife (Robyn). Well I was going to get a grey water tank fitted to our van but was advised not to (expense, smell coming from drains in the van plus if you want to empty grey tank it means moving your van). I'm more than happy with the portable one.
Cheers Owen.
daffyfrancis said
10:18 PM Feb 27, 2016
Hi,
We have had one for over 3 years & although you have to take it to a dump point if staying at self contained sites this has never been a problem to transport in our mercedes sprinter campervan as they seal completely watertight. When staying elsewhere just empty as you would with a grey water hose.
The campervan & motorhome leave no trace approve them with conditions (needs a secure connecting fitting to your grey water outlet & with an on/off valve)
David
Hey Jim said
11:10 PM Feb 27, 2016
iana wrote:
I am looking at the "Fiamma Roll Tank", would these pass at "Self contained" free camping sites?, they are wheeled plastic tanks that sit on the ground to collect the grey water. Is there any up-dated info. on what or what not to have to satisfy the requirements?
Hi Ian,
Correct me if I am wrong. You have a factory fitted grey tank at the rear in your Silverline. It is fitted with a brass **** handle to open and close now. If you are in a self contained RV stop you just close the valve handle and you are self contained =82lt tank, = 2 people x two days stay at most the same as ours. You could drain 15-20 at a time and take a walk.
Unless you are going to remove the GW tank and move one of your existing water tanks to the same location why would you need a portable unit. In some locations they would accept it. and yet others don't allow. I'm not up to speed with Fiamma roll Tanks.
As for draing the tank in an outback area the trees and plants will love you both. That what We plan to do most of the time.
PS: that's why I am looking for Sink Strainers to stop the heavy bits and body hair going into the tank first up.
Regards Jim
The Phantom said
11:38 PM Feb 27, 2016
Ian, don't go overboard with this self contained bull sh!t.
I think it is a naive reaction to an agenda being pushed by the CMCA people.
I travelled Oz for 18 months, staying at a combination of free camps, caravan parks, front yards and on the side of a deserted road. I never had a "roll tank" but always collected the grey water in a bucket and disposed of it responsibly.
Not once was I questioned about what I was doing or why I did it.
Consider this. If the CMCA crowd can reduce the number of people in free camps, it is better for them as a lobby group.
I do not, for one minute, endorse irresponsible behaviour with regard to grey water but people need to consider their impact on the environment and act accordingly. If you wish to purchase a "roll tank" by all means do so but it is not a pre-requisite for having a good time.
Do not be a victim to scaremongering or people pushing an agenda.
Just get out there and enjoy yourself without falling victim to the bullsh!t.
The Phantom
iana said
11:48 PM Feb 27, 2016
hey jim,
As you know I have weight and balance problems with the van. This has been caused by 1/ the removal of the club lounge at the front of the van, and 2/ the installation of the factory fitted grey water tank in the position normally where the 2nd water tank is fitted.
The second water tank is now fitted well up forward and so increases ball weight un-necessarily when filled. By putting the water tanks either side of the axles (fore and aft), when filled the ball weight won't chance much, but the all up weight of the van will increase, in other word the trim is not effected.
One of my thoughts is to remove the grey water tank (supplied as a bonus FOC) and move the front water tank back where it should be. But I still need to have a grey water tank. I have looked at the space between the axles, and wondered about fitting the GW tank there, but the tank would be mounted in a N S as opposed to a E W position across the van. I thought mounting the tank this way and having no baffles in the tank would not be a good thing.
Now I am wondering about using a portable wheeled tank for this purpose when needed, and am after information from those who have experience from "Free Camping" to give me their opinion. So far this thread has had some positive and interesting replies.
iana said
11:51 PM Feb 27, 2016
OK Mr Phantom, it can be a container, a tank or what ever sitting on the ground.
The Phantom said
11:59 PM Feb 27, 2016
Of course it can.
Just remember that more than 90% of free camps do not have a grey water stipulation.
But if you want to set up in the middle of Bunbury or Bendigo or Brisbane you may need some form of capture for grey water.
You certainly will not need it at Leycesters Rest Area in the Kimberleys (http://www.caravanontour.com/free-campsites-and-low-cost-camping/western-australia/rest-area-and-places-to-pull-over-when-tired/2855-leycesters-rest-area-24-hour-limit.html)
A bucket to feed the plants in the area is sufficient.
The Phantom
daffyfrancis said
09:22 AM Feb 28, 2016
HI Phantom,
It may be bullsh!t in your opinion but a more & more of old & new RV Friendly Towns are requiring self contained requirements if you wish to stay & as I mentioned previously if you have the correct container & fittings as per CMCA guidelines it will qualify. In the overall scheme of things considering the cost & convenience of a rolling container I still would recommend one even if not overnighting in self contained areas but why limit your future options.
David.
brickies said
09:22 AM Feb 28, 2016
I do think the only problem is when some RVS drop grey waste on black tar which has food particle in it which then starts to smell and attract flys , There always a tree a short walk away that would like a drink .
Dav4Cris said
10:53 AM Feb 28, 2016
We have a 40litre roll tank, which is fitted to our outlet pipe via some plumbing I made up. We only use it when we are in areas that state self contained, otherwise we use a grey water hose with a stocking over the end, this catches all the crap and then all I have to do is put the stocking in the bin. Stocking is held on with some tie wire or zip clip. Only problem with the 40 litre tank is you really need to empty it every day or it gets very heavy to pick up and put in back of ute to take and empty if you have any distance to travel to empty.
rockylizard said
10:58 AM Feb 28, 2016
brickies wrote:
I do think the only problem is when some RVS drop grey waste on black tar which has food particle in it which then starts to smell and attract flys , There always a tree a short walk away that would like a drink .
Gday...
And the other problem, brickies, is that many 'modern' vans/Rvs are 'self-contained' insomuch they have not only a toilet but also a shower.
Increasingly, those who are travelling want to use their shower each night - even when parked within a town at what is really just a rest area. Add to that the volume of travellers with a 'self-contained' van and you have a real problem with the volume of grey water that ends up on the ground. It is usually just either straight from the van's outlet pipe or via a sullage hose in close proximity of the van.
Even if it is a grassed area, which all too often is quite a small area, it will quickly become a sodden, greasy mess with 10 or so 'self-contained' RVs discharging their ablutions for following users of the patch - night after night after night.
It is because of those who stay at 'rest stops' doing this, that gives validity to the excellent picture painted by CMCA, in their representations to communities, to overcome the community's image of what RVers should be like ... that is driving the impetus of declaring 'rest stops' as "self-contained only".
Perhaps Phantom put the case in a way that is confronting to some. However, he is quite correct. In the greater majority of situations, "self-contained only" sites, to spend a night or perhaps two, are within cities/towns which are little more than 'rest areas' - very close to said cities/towns. Councils/communities have allowed the travelling RVer to sleep at what are usually community picnic areas etc used on weekends by the local community. The community does not want their picnic area to become sodden, greasy messes.
I have been a full-time traveller for seven years now. I camp away from towns/van parks at least 80% of the time. At the places I camp I have yet to find a campground, or overnighter, with 'self-contained only' status.
If I need to be within a city/town for some reason, I find it far better to patronise a local van park. If I really MUST be in such an environment surrounded with population and other vans, I would prefer to pay for the amenity of a van park or showground.
Obviously, we are all different with different preferences, needs, wants and expectations. Thankfully there are choices - a low-cost or no-cost campground in an environment that is relaxing and enjoyable, a low-cost or no-cost crowded 'rest area' with little facility within a city/town, or a van park/showground with some facility and 'order'.
Personally, this seemingly pressing need to be provided with the ability to sleep for free at a place within/near populations escapes me. I consider that paying for a comfortable place to rest far outweighs staying at a free crowded and restricted rest area.
Cheers - see ya on the road praps - John
Phil C said
11:14 AM Feb 28, 2016
Hi gang,
This discussion will go on forever and attract all sorts of posts.
IMHO if grey water is good for plants let's water them. If its a requirement to be self contained at a site then be self contained. I bought a 30 liter drum from the big green toolbox (bunnings) and modified with a hole for a sealed entry point and a breather hole, I strap it to a sack truck and bingo Im self contained.
We stayed at a caravan park at Elliston on the Eyre Peninsular and I asked the usual question about grey water, I was informed to put it on the lush green grass. In another free camp we were advised that no water was to be put on the dust. See my point?
If we as nomads have to comply with a few rules, so be it. I am of the opinion that some are overkill by political types who like the sound of their own voices BUT rules is rules.
Cheers
rockylizard said
11:18 AM Feb 28, 2016
Gday...
well summed up Phil
cheers m- John
Bruce and Bev said
11:40 AM Feb 28, 2016
John and Phil have nailed this on-going issue. It really depends on Shire requirements and also the accumulation of grease from soaps and dish washing that builds up on the ground from just not one RV, but potentially 100's each month in the area.
brickies said
12:03 PM Feb 28, 2016
And seem to happen in towns not out in the country ,Has John said if you want to stay in a town stay at a local caravan park .
iana said
01:55 PM Feb 28, 2016
O Dear what happened? go back to the first posts and start again. I was getting some useful info for a while.
Dav4Cris, I thought the 40 lt. would get a bit heavy, was angling towards the 23lt. Large lid for cleaning, the various ports, heavy plastic and of course the wheels.
How much grey water would a Husband & Wife team create over a 24hr stay. I know how long is a piece of string. No funny comments please, I really had to think when composing that line.
We went and explored a couple of free or pay a small fee camps, and the maximum stay was two nights. Is that the norm. So we only need capacity for two nights?
And yes one advertised site was not very welcoming.
Phil C said
02:05 PM Feb 28, 2016
iana wrote:
O Dear what happened? go back to the first posts and start again. I was getting some useful info for a while.
Dav4Cris, I thought the 40 lt. would get a bit heavy, was angling towards the 23lt. Large lid for cleaning, the various ports, heavy plastic and of course the wheels.
How much grey water would a Husband & Wife team create over a 24hr stay. I know how long is a piece of string. No funny comments please, I really had to think when composing that line.
We went and explored a couple of free or pay a small fee camps, and the maximum stay was two nights. Is that the norm. So we only need capacity for two nights?
And yes one advertised site was not very welcoming.
oooopppsssss my bad...
greyhoundtom said
04:55 PM Feb 28, 2016
I was all for fitting something on the van permanently to catch the grey water but got talked out of it by several experienced travelers as not being necessary, and at times a damn nuisance.
So far the two 25 litre rectangular plastic water containers I carry have done the job very well, and believe you me because of me hobbling around as a result of some spinal problems they get emptied when they are only about half full and I do have a trolley I can carry them on. To this time in only one location they needed to go in the back of the tug to be taken to an other location to be emptied.
daffyfrancis said
06:24 PM Mar 2, 2016
Hi again,
Sorry for the delay in following up (we have been away with friends for three terrific nights camping on the lake front at Wayatinah Caravan park here in Tassie).
I don't know if all R/V Friendly towns require the same rules as the CMCA Leave No Trace Programe but their requirement is for grey water holdings capacity of 5litres per person per day or 15 litres per person per day if fitted with a shower, so if getting a tote tank consider getting a 40litre one so you would comply but if camping elsewhere you don't have to fill it up before emptying. We don't carry a sullage hose & if camping where you could use one it's not much trouble wheeling our 40 litre tote tank the length of a sullage hose to empty
David
iana said
05:30 AM Mar 3, 2016
Thankyou David and Tom for that, it looks as though the 23 litre tank is on the small side, and the 40 litre tank could be a bit hard to manage. Do these parks have a stay limit on them, i.e. over night stay, or two night stay maximum?
daffyfrancis said
07:11 AM Mar 3, 2016
From what I have seen the stay limits seem to vary between 24 to 72 hours & you then need the holding capacity for your intended time staying.
If you are going to remove your grey water tank to reposition your fresh water tank is it possible to replumb your current or another type of grey water tank to where the fresh water tank is now You would then be complying in all situations but you could control weight by how much you let accumulate before emptying, either on the ground, dump point or 23/40lt wheelie tank. ie: you don't have to use 15lt per day per person if there is a shower on board only have that capacity available to comply & thats why I suggested a 40lt wheelie tank if you do away with a fixed grey water tank.
Also some venues like clubs/hotels that allow self contained stayovers have toilets/showers available during opening hours.
David.
-- Edited by daffyfrancis on Thursday 3rd of March 2016 07:18:58 AM
I am looking at the "Fiamma Roll Tank", would these pass at "Self contained" free camping sites?, they are wheeled plastic tanks that sit on the ground to collect the grey water. Is there any up-dated info. on what or what not to have to satisfy the requirements?
Hi Ian,
We have shares in a number of associated Companies that our broker put us onto that may be of interest to you and others here.
They are the Union Can Company.
British Perforated Tissue Paper.
Metropolitan Gas Co Ltd.
Metrolitan Water Co.
Due to uncertain conditions of the Grey Water market at present, they would advise GN's to sit on your Union Can, hold your water, and let your gas go.
You will no doubt be interested to know that British Tissue touched a new bottom to-day and thousands were wiped clean.
I hope this helps.
Regards Hey Jim
Cheers Owen.
Cheers Owen.
Hi,
We have had one for over 3 years & although you have to take it to a dump point if staying at self contained sites this has never been a problem to transport in our mercedes sprinter campervan as they seal completely watertight. When staying elsewhere just empty as you would with a grey water hose.
The campervan & motorhome leave no trace approve them with conditions (needs a secure connecting fitting to your grey water outlet & with an on/off valve)
David
Hi Ian,
Correct me if I am wrong. You have a factory fitted grey tank at the rear in your Silverline. It is fitted with a brass **** handle to open and close now. If you are in a self contained RV stop you just close the valve handle and you are self contained =82lt tank, = 2 people x two days stay at most the same as ours. You could drain 15-20 at a time and take a walk.
Unless you are going to remove the GW tank and move one of your existing water tanks to the same location why would you need a portable unit. In some locations they would accept it. and yet others don't allow. I'm not up to speed with Fiamma roll Tanks.
As for draing the tank in an outback area the trees and plants will love you both. That what We plan to do most of the time.
PS: that's why I am looking for Sink Strainers to stop the heavy bits and body hair going into the tank first up.
Regards Jim
Ian, don't go overboard with this self contained bull sh!t.
I think it is a naive reaction to an agenda being pushed by the CMCA people.
I travelled Oz for 18 months, staying at a combination of free camps, caravan parks, front yards and on the side of a deserted road. I never had a "roll tank" but always collected the grey water in a bucket and disposed of it responsibly.
Not once was I questioned about what I was doing or why I did it.
Consider this. If the CMCA crowd can reduce the number of people in free camps, it is better for them as a lobby group.
I do not, for one minute, endorse irresponsible behaviour with regard to grey water but people need to consider their impact on the environment and act accordingly. If you wish to purchase a "roll tank" by all means do so but it is not a pre-requisite for having a good time.
Do not be a victim to scaremongering or people pushing an agenda.
Just get out there and enjoy yourself without falling victim to the bullsh!t.
The Phantom
As you know I have weight and balance problems with the van. This has been caused by 1/ the removal of the club lounge at the front of the van, and 2/ the installation of the factory fitted grey water tank in the position normally where the 2nd water tank is fitted.
The second water tank is now fitted well up forward and so increases ball weight un-necessarily when filled. By putting the water tanks either side of the axles (fore and aft), when filled the ball weight won't chance much, but the all up weight of the van will increase, in other word the trim is not effected.
One of my thoughts is to remove the grey water tank (supplied as a bonus FOC) and move the front water tank back where it should be. But I still need to have a grey water tank. I have looked at the space between the axles, and wondered about fitting the GW tank there, but the tank would be mounted in a N S as opposed to a E W position across the van. I thought mounting the tank this way and having no baffles in the tank would not be a good thing.
Now I am wondering about using a portable wheeled tank for this purpose when needed, and am after information from those who have experience from "Free Camping" to give me their opinion. So far this thread has had some positive and interesting replies.
Of course it can.
Just remember that more than 90% of free camps do not have a grey water stipulation.
But if you want to set up in the middle of Bunbury or Bendigo or Brisbane you may need some form of capture for grey water.
You certainly will not need it at Leycesters Rest Area in the Kimberleys (http://www.caravanontour.com/free-campsites-and-low-cost-camping/western-australia/rest-area-and-places-to-pull-over-when-tired/2855-leycesters-rest-area-24-hour-limit.html)
A bucket to feed the plants in the area is sufficient.
The Phantom
HI Phantom,
It may be bullsh!t in your opinion but a more & more of old & new RV Friendly Towns are requiring self contained requirements if you wish to stay & as I mentioned previously if you have the correct container & fittings as per CMCA guidelines it will qualify. In the overall scheme of things considering the cost & convenience of a rolling container I still would recommend one even if not overnighting in self contained areas but why limit your future options.
David.
Gday...
And the other problem, brickies, is that many 'modern' vans/Rvs are 'self-contained' insomuch they have not only a toilet but also a shower.
Increasingly, those who are travelling want to use their shower each night - even when parked within a town at what is really just a rest area. Add to that the volume of travellers with a 'self-contained' van and you have a real problem with the volume of grey water that ends up on the ground. It is usually just either straight from the van's outlet pipe or via a sullage hose in close proximity of the van.
Even if it is a grassed area, which all too often is quite a small area, it will quickly become a sodden, greasy mess with 10 or so 'self-contained' RVs discharging their ablutions for following users of the patch - night after night after night.
It is because of those who stay at 'rest stops' doing this, that gives validity to the excellent picture painted by CMCA, in their representations to communities, to overcome the community's image of what RVers should be like ... that is driving the impetus of declaring 'rest stops' as "self-contained only".
Perhaps Phantom put the case in a way that is confronting to some. However, he is quite correct. In the greater majority of situations, "self-contained only" sites, to spend a night or perhaps two, are within cities/towns which are little more than 'rest areas' - very close to said cities/towns. Councils/communities have allowed the travelling RVer to sleep at what are usually community picnic areas etc used on weekends by the local community. The community does not want their picnic area to become sodden, greasy messes.
I have been a full-time traveller for seven years now. I camp away from towns/van parks at least 80% of the time. At the places I camp I have yet to find a campground, or overnighter, with 'self-contained only' status.
If I need to be within a city/town for some reason, I find it far better to patronise a local van park. If I really MUST be in such an environment surrounded with population and other vans, I would prefer to pay for the amenity of a van park or showground.
Obviously, we are all different with different preferences, needs, wants and expectations. Thankfully there are choices - a low-cost or no-cost campground in an environment that is relaxing and enjoyable, a low-cost or no-cost crowded 'rest area' with little facility within a city/town, or a van park/showground with some facility and 'order'.
Personally, this seemingly pressing need to be provided with the ability to sleep for free at a place within/near populations escapes me. I consider that paying for a comfortable place to rest far outweighs staying at a free crowded and restricted rest area.
Cheers - see ya on the road praps - John
This discussion will go on forever and attract all sorts of posts.
IMHO if grey water is good for plants let's water them. If its a requirement to be self contained at a site then be self contained. I bought a 30 liter drum from the big green toolbox (bunnings) and modified with a hole for a sealed entry point and a breather hole, I strap it to a sack truck and bingo Im self contained.
We stayed at a caravan park at Elliston on the Eyre Peninsular and I asked the usual question about grey water, I was informed to put it on the lush green grass. In another free camp we were advised that no water was to be put on the dust. See my point?
If we as nomads have to comply with a few rules, so be it. I am of the opinion that some are overkill by political types who like the sound of their own voices BUT rules is rules.
Cheers
Gday...
cheers m- John
Dav4Cris, I thought the 40 lt. would get a bit heavy, was angling towards the 23lt. Large lid for cleaning, the various ports, heavy plastic and of course the wheels.
How much grey water would a Husband & Wife team create over a 24hr stay. I know how long is a piece of string. No funny comments please, I really had to think when composing that line.
We went and explored a couple of free or pay a small fee camps, and the maximum stay was two nights. Is that the norm. So we only need capacity for two nights?
And yes one advertised site was not very welcoming.
oooopppsssss my bad...
So far the two 25 litre rectangular plastic water containers I carry have done the job very well, and believe you me because of me hobbling around as a result of some spinal problems they get emptied when they are only about half full and I do have a trolley I can carry them on. To this time in only one location they needed to go in the back of the tug to be taken to an other location to be emptied.
Hi again,
Sorry for the delay in following up (we have been away with friends for three terrific nights camping on the lake front at Wayatinah Caravan park here in Tassie).
I don't know if all R/V Friendly towns require the same rules as the CMCA Leave No Trace Programe but their requirement is for grey water holdings capacity of 5litres per person per day or 15 litres per person per day if fitted with a shower, so if getting a tote tank consider getting a 40litre one so you would comply but if camping elsewhere you don't have to fill it up before emptying. We don't carry a sullage hose & if camping where you could use one it's not much trouble wheeling our 40 litre tote tank the length of a sullage hose to empty
David
From what I have seen the stay limits seem to vary between 24 to 72 hours & you then need the holding capacity for your intended time staying.
If you are going to remove your grey water tank to reposition your fresh water tank is it possible to replumb your current or another type of grey water tank to where the fresh water tank is now You would then be complying in all situations but you could control weight by how much you let accumulate before emptying, either on the ground, dump point or 23/40lt wheelie tank. ie: you don't have to use 15lt per day per person if there is a shower on board only have that capacity available to comply & thats why I suggested a 40lt wheelie tank if you do away with a fixed grey water tank.
Also some venues like clubs/hotels that allow self contained stayovers have toilets/showers available during opening hours.
David.
-- Edited by daffyfrancis on Thursday 3rd of March 2016 07:18:58 AM