Sorry if this subject has been covered before. The RTA in Qld say that there is a need to check with the rulings in other Australian States when travelling interstate. So what do we do when the gcvm is illegal? I realise this may seem a silly question, but I genuinely need to know. I really don't want to be throwing away necessities, I would greatly appreciate your help. Ruth
KFT said
12:28 PM Feb 15, 2016
Hi ruth,
from my understanding the Gross Combination Mass(GCM) is set by the vehicle maker.
I would consider that as long as you do not exceed that rating you will be legal in all states and territories of Australia.
Frank
montie said
12:29 PM Feb 15, 2016
Ruth,
Tge GCM (Gross Combination Mass) is a rating set by the vehicle manufacturer and the combined measured weight of your tug and van attached must not exceed this rating.
If your GCM is illegal in Qld it will be illegal in all other states as well.
Montie
greyhoundtom said
08:44 PM Feb 15, 2016
This Gross Combination Mass can certainly be a worrying situation depending on the type of vehicle you buy to tow your van with, and unfortunately the rated towing in Kg does not nessecarely mean that the vehicle is actually allowed to tow that weight when you look at the GCM.
For instance in my situation my tug is a MU-X that rated to tow 3000 Kg with an allowable ball weight of 300 Kg.
In this case the Gross Vehicle Mass is allowed to be 2.750 Kg and the Gross Combination Mass 5.750 Kg
Justifying the ability of the vehicle towing 3000 Kg.
Looking at their Dmax crew cab ute, it has a rated towing of 3500 Kg or 500 Kg more than the MU-X however it has a Gross Vehicle Mass of 2950 Kg and a Gross Combination Mass of 5950 Kg which means that with this vehicle at the maximum GVM it can only tow 3000 Kg not the rated 3500 Kg.
That situation where the loading of the tow vehicle with equipment starts to come close to or even exceed the maximum GVM it can play havoc with the ability of it to then tow the chosen van safely and legally.
greyhoundtom said
09:23 PM Feb 15, 2016
Further to the above:
The other interesting problem for those towing a van including me, is that AFAIK in every state a vehicle where the Gross Combenation Mass exceeds 4.5 ton or 4500 Kg is considered a heavy vehicle, and where requested by signage is required to pull into a weighbridge controlled by a Roads Authority.
To date I have never yet done so even though I have passed weighbridges that required vehicles 4.5 ton and over to stop at that weighbridge knowing damn well that my tug and van has a combined weight of a tick over 5000 Kg.
I'm not sure how long I will be able to keep dodging that bullet before someone wearing a uniform is going to clip me around the ear and dips their hand in my wallet.
Peter_n_Margaret said
12:39 PM Feb 16, 2016
greyhoundtom wrote:
The other interesting problem for those towing a van including me, is that AFAIK in every state a vehicle where the Gross Combenation Mass exceeds 4.5 ton or 4500 Kg is considered a heavy vehicle, and where requested by signage is required to pull into a weighbridge controlled by a Roads Authority.
I think you will find that GVM is the decider regarding light, medium and heavy vehicles, not GCM.
The weigh stations only require those with a GVM of over 4.5T to be weighed (irrespective of what they actually weigh at the time) and many specify only those over GVM 8T GVM.
Light vehicles (under GVM 4.5T) are not obliged to be weighed, even if their GCM and actual weight is over 4.5T.
If you do voluntarily go in and get weighed though and are found to be over weight, you will not be permitted to proceed until you are legal.
Cheers,
Peter
greyhoundtom said
05:05 PM Feb 16, 2016
Peter_n_Margaret wrote:
I think you will find that GVM is the decider regarding light, medium and heavy vehicles, not GCM.
The weigh stations only require those with a GVM of over 4.5T to be weighed (irrespective of what they actually weigh at the time) and many specify only those over GVM 8T GVM.
Light vehicles (under GVM 4.5T) are not obliged to be weighed, even if their GCM and actual weight is over 4.5T.
If you do voluntarily go in and get weighed though and are found to be over weight, you will not be permitted to proceed until you are legal.
Cheers,
Peter
Mate I certainly hope you are right as that will be weight off my mind, (no pun intended) and would explain why I have not got into trouble to date as a result of ignoring those few weighbridges that require vehicles over 4.5 ton to enter.
Vince said
11:59 AM Feb 18, 2016
I'm in big trouble here
We are off to QLD in the next fortnight for a five week trip and....
.....and the problem is....
Weighed the van at the weigh bridge on its own --- 2280KG laden with water, gas, food and clothing + only essentials for the trip
Combined weigh - Mav and Van = 5001Kg (Laden - Mav 2721Kg = 29Kg below NSW Rego GVM - without us occupants)
Tow Ball weight 165Kg
There is no GCM in the handbook of the Mav only towing capacity braked at 2500Kg
We bought this van July 2014 and only added food and clothing + BBQ webber + table + sullage hose + water hose + tools and spares (10Kg) +ground cover
I am now thinking this van was over weight when we purchased it.
The compliance plate may have been correct in 2004 so between then and now I have no idea why the increase as what we have added of our own would only total 120Kg +/- a kilo
Only thing that seems OK is the Axle/Axle Load Capacity ??
-- Edited by Vince on Thursday 18th of February 2016 12:00:03 PM
Ford Maverick is not listed in the Towing Mass Guide but should be the same as a Nissan Patrol which has a GCM rating of 5600/6200kg so you are OK there.
Was the van hooked up to the tug when you weighed it?
Montie
Jaahn said
04:00 PM Feb 18, 2016
Hi Vince
The trouble is the b*st*rds in this business have been corrupt for many years and have regularly cheated on weights and figures. They thought no-one cared if things were "a bit over" which was largely true and with some people still is a fact. That is why the state transport authorities are actually weighing vans and MHs now. Taken them a long time to get around to it.
Perhaps the current trend for GNs to travel at the maximum limits has made the situation worse too.
Sorry that you have got caught out. Looks like a visit to an engineer for a revision of the plate weights.
I think I would take a trip to a weighbridge first up when I buy something now.
Jaahn
-- Edited by Jaahn on Thursday 18th of February 2016 04:03:13 PM
-- Edited by Jaahn on Thursday 18th of February 2016 04:03:48 PM
Peter_n_Margaret said
05:08 PM Feb 18, 2016
Because the axle group capacity has plenty of spare, it may be possible to get the ATM increased.
Does it have electric brakes?
Cheers,
Peter
TheHeaths said
07:35 PM Feb 18, 2016
Vince,
Not doubting you at all, but what I suggest is this.
Empty the van totally, including water tanks and HWS if fitted, but don't worry about the gas. List the various options fitted like Aircon, Awning etc, then go and get van weighed at a certified weighbridge. When you get it home, refill the van, but weigh each and every thing you put in the van. Load it as if you were going away, and keep a sheet with all the items and their weight on. Then you will need to add the weight of water (1 kg per litre, so 2 tanks if you have them could add 160kg or thereabouts), the HWS (possible 23 kg if a storage unit), gas if full would be 9 kg per bottle, and then see what the total weight is.
Certainly the weighbridge figure will give you a good idea how much the Tare is understated, if at all, and it may surprise you, especially if aircon, awning and other options were added by the dealer instead of the factory.
When you have all the information, then approach the builder and see if the ATM can be increased to better reflect what you will weigh when travelling.
Good luck.
PS we weighed everything when we first filled our van to get an accurate figure, then added water etc to get a good guide. Then we did get an ATM upgrade from JAyco to 600 kg load which gave us plenty of wriggle room, as with 2 full tanks we cart about 460 kg of "necessary" (at least Kathy tells me it is) stuff!
Vince said
12:59 AM Feb 19, 2016
Hi
Montie - Weighed on its own unhooked and I was taking it that a 4.2 GU has a GCM listed and as mine is similar hopefully it will be right.
Jaahn - That is what I will most likely do - Get it re-engineered to the new weights revisions
Peter - Yes has electric brakes and it now will have to have a breakaway system added - got a quote of $700 which seems a bit extravagant
TheHeaths - Yep I will do as you have posted before getting it re evaluated for weight revision by an engineer - costly exercise but we love the van and so be it
Thanks for replies and advice
Cheers
Vince
montie said
08:07 AM Feb 19, 2016
Vince, As Peter said you have a good opportunity to upgrade the ATM to the axle group rating. You will probably require the services of an engineer as Regal is now under different ownership. I would need to know the exact model to get the correct GCM rating because this could become an issue when you upgrade.
At the end of the day the only weight that matters is the fully laden measured weight ready to travel which must not exceed the ATM rating or the tow capacity of the tug. In your case you will be restricted to 2500kg which you say is the Maverick tow capacity.
Montie (keep forgetting my new handle)
-- Edited by montie on Friday 19th of February 2016 08:09:33 AM
ruth said
09:48 AM Feb 28, 2016
Thank you to all the dear people who replied to my query!! I am very appreciative of your responses. Ruthie
ruth said
09:54 AM Feb 28, 2016
Hi everyone, thank you dear people for responding to my query. Your help is very much appreciated! Safe and happy travels, Ruthie
from my understanding the Gross Combination Mass(GCM) is set by the vehicle maker.
I would consider that as long as you do not exceed that rating you will be legal in all states and territories of Australia.
Frank
Ruth,
Tge GCM (Gross Combination Mass) is a rating set by the vehicle manufacturer and the combined measured weight of your tug and van attached must not exceed this rating.
If your GCM is illegal in Qld it will be illegal in all other states as well.
Montie
For instance in my situation my tug is a MU-X that rated to tow 3000 Kg with an allowable ball weight of 300 Kg.
In this case the Gross Vehicle Mass is allowed to be 2.750 Kg and the Gross Combination Mass 5.750 Kg
Justifying the ability of the vehicle towing 3000 Kg.
Looking at their Dmax crew cab ute, it has a rated towing of 3500 Kg or 500 Kg more than the MU-X however it has a Gross Vehicle Mass of 2950 Kg and a Gross Combination Mass of 5950 Kg which means that with this vehicle at the maximum GVM it can only tow 3000 Kg not the rated 3500 Kg.
That situation where the loading of the tow vehicle with equipment starts to come close to or even exceed the maximum GVM it can play havoc with the ability of it to then tow the chosen van safely and legally.
The other interesting problem for those towing a van including me, is that AFAIK in every state a vehicle where the Gross Combenation Mass exceeds 4.5 ton or 4500 Kg is considered a heavy vehicle, and where requested by signage is required to pull into a weighbridge controlled by a Roads Authority.
To date I have never yet done so even though I have passed weighbridges that required vehicles 4.5 ton and over to stop at that weighbridge knowing damn well that my tug and van has a combined weight of a tick over 5000 Kg.
I'm not sure how long I will be able to keep dodging that bullet before someone wearing a uniform is going to clip me around the ear and dips their hand in my wallet.
I think you will find that GVM is the decider regarding light, medium and heavy vehicles, not GCM.
The weigh stations only require those with a GVM of over 4.5T to be weighed (irrespective of what they actually weigh at the time) and many specify only those over GVM 8T GVM.
Light vehicles (under GVM 4.5T) are not obliged to be weighed, even if their GCM and actual weight is over 4.5T.
If you do voluntarily go in and get weighed though and are found to be over weight, you will not be permitted to proceed until you are legal.
Cheers,
Peter
Mate I certainly hope you are right as that will be weight off my mind, (no pun intended) and would explain why I have not got into trouble to date as a result of ignoring those few weighbridges that require vehicles over 4.5 ton to enter.
I'm in big trouble here
We are off to QLD in the next fortnight for a five week trip and....
.....and the problem is....
Weighed the van at the weigh bridge on its own --- 2280KG laden with water, gas, food and clothing + only essentials for the trip
Combined weigh - Mav and Van = 5001Kg (Laden - Mav 2721Kg = 29Kg below NSW Rego GVM - without us occupants)
Tow Ball weight 165Kg
There is no GCM in the handbook of the Mav only towing capacity braked at 2500Kg
We bought this van July 2014 and only added food and clothing + BBQ webber + table + sullage hose + water hose + tools and spares (10Kg) +ground cover
I am now thinking this van was over weight when we purchased it.
The compliance plate may have been correct in 2004 so between then and now I have no idea why the increase as what we have added of our own would only total 120Kg +/- a kilo
Only thing that seems OK is the Axle/Axle Load Capacity ??
-- Edited by Vince on Thursday 18th of February 2016 12:00:03 PM
Ford Maverick is not listed in the Towing Mass Guide but should be the same as a Nissan Patrol which has a GCM rating of 5600/6200kg so you are OK there.
Was the van hooked up to the tug when you weighed it?
Montie
Hi Vince
The trouble is the b*st*rds in this business have been corrupt for many years and have regularly cheated on weights and figures. They thought no-one cared if things were "a bit over" which was largely true and with some people still is a fact. That is why the state transport authorities are actually weighing vans and MHs now. Taken them a long time to get around to it.
Perhaps the current trend for GNs to travel at the maximum limits has made the situation worse too.
Sorry that you have got caught out. Looks like a visit to an engineer for a revision of the plate weights.
I think I would take a trip to a weighbridge first up when I buy something now.
Jaahn
-- Edited by Jaahn on Thursday 18th of February 2016 04:03:13 PM
-- Edited by Jaahn on Thursday 18th of February 2016 04:03:48 PM
Does it have electric brakes?
Cheers,
Peter
Not doubting you at all, but what I suggest is this.
Empty the van totally, including water tanks and HWS if fitted, but don't worry about the gas. List the various options fitted like Aircon, Awning etc, then go and get van weighed at a certified weighbridge. When you get it home, refill the van, but weigh each and every thing you put in the van. Load it as if you were going away, and keep a sheet with all the items and their weight on. Then you will need to add the weight of water (1 kg per litre, so 2 tanks if you have them could add 160kg or thereabouts), the HWS (possible 23 kg if a storage unit), gas if full would be 9 kg per bottle, and then see what the total weight is.
Certainly the weighbridge figure will give you a good idea how much the Tare is understated, if at all, and it may surprise you, especially if aircon, awning and other options were added by the dealer instead of the factory.
When you have all the information, then approach the builder and see if the ATM can be increased to better reflect what you will weigh when travelling.
Good luck.
PS we weighed everything when we first filled our van to get an accurate figure, then added water etc to get a good guide. Then we did get an ATM upgrade from JAyco to 600 kg load which gave us plenty of wriggle room, as with 2 full tanks we cart about 460 kg of "necessary" (at least Kathy tells me it is) stuff!
Hi
Montie - Weighed on its own unhooked and I was taking it that a 4.2 GU has a GCM listed and as mine is similar hopefully it will be right.
Jaahn - That is what I will most likely do - Get it re-engineered to the new weights revisions
Peter - Yes has electric brakes and it now will have to have a breakaway system added - got a quote of $700 which seems a bit extravagant
TheHeaths - Yep I will do as you have posted before getting it re evaluated for weight revision by an engineer - costly exercise but we love the van and so be it
Thanks for replies and advice
Cheers
Vince
Vince,
As Peter said you have a good opportunity to upgrade the ATM to the axle group rating. You will probably require the services of an engineer as Regal is now under different ownership. I would need to know the exact model to get the correct GCM rating because this could become an issue when you upgrade.
At the end of the day the only weight that matters is the fully laden measured weight ready to travel which must not exceed the ATM rating or the tow capacity of the tug. In your case you will be restricted to 2500kg which you say is the Maverick tow capacity.
Montie (keep forgetting my new handle)
-- Edited by montie on Friday 19th of February 2016 08:09:33 AM