We are investigating caravans for when we retire later this year and are considering Bailey & Paramount vans around 22' long.
I would be interested in your thoughts.
Bill
brickies said
03:04 PM Jan 22, 2016
Hi what we did was to kick every caravan tyre you can , Make a list of what you want out of your caravan , Visit has many caravan outlets has you can, Sit down in the caravan and workout how you could live in the caravan , Remember if you are on the road and you have rain for days remember it is your home , We spent 6 month looking and ticking our list , When you get to that point you will know which caravan is right for you . Don't just walk through the caravan pretend to be living init . We also found caravan show are not the right place to look for caravan has you don't get time to get the reel feel of the caravan , You and you alone can make the choice we are all different good luck and take your time .
Bill Brealey said
03:15 PM Jan 22, 2016
Thank you, that's about what I thought we might need to do, starting this weekend we are off looking through a range of caravans with liveability in mind.
Plendo said
03:24 PM Jan 22, 2016
I would have to agree with Brickies, everyone is different, different things are important to each of us.
You owe it to yourself to be thorough, establish what you need first, then add on what you want, build a good picture of your ideal van. Then as Brickies says apply the wet day test, imagine what it would be like being in the van for a wet couple of days. Think also what it will be like in the middle of summer.
When we looked, we spent about a year looking, keeping changing our mind, finding something better to the point where we were utterly confused. We then sat down and wrote it out, and that was important for us. That convinced us that what we wanted did not exist. So then we set about creating it.
We chose a base we were happy with, then designed the solution on top of that.
We landed up with a solution that really does fit our needs, but it took three years.
I am not sure how set you are on the brands you mention, but we found we could not go past Retreat, their package suited us, and we like the way they handle customer service.
Bill Brealey said
03:35 PM Jan 22, 2016
Thanks Plendo, I will take heed of your advice, we've got plenty of time and I will check out Retreat.
Thanks again,
Bruce and Bev said
04:14 PM Jan 22, 2016
Hi Bill. Welcome to the Forum and hope you get plenty of info and help from others here and that you can contribute back to keep the site alive and interesting :)
As you only joined a few days ago, you wont have read the many and varied problems that people have had with different makes of Australian made caravans - believe me - there have been plenty.
There seems to be a general consensus that Australian made RV's are poorly constructed. Hopefully you will be one of those lucky enough to buy an orange and not a lemon lol.
If you have the time, go visit a few independent caravan repairers in your area and ask them what they think of the brand of van you are considering and also do a google search under the brand name and see if theres a site for customer feedback (independent from the one put up by the maker). Many vans have websites called "XXXX customer comment" or "xxxxx customer feedback". These can be useful.
When you buy your van take it away for about a week, preferably over some bumpy metalled roads (not mountain goat tracks) and use ALL the facilities that come with your new purchase. Have with you an exercise book and write down all the problems. Then when you get back, get in touch with the Dealer. Always make your complaints in writing (email) - never verbally, so you have an on-going record of the complaints. By law, the Dealer is responsible for all warranty repairs and cannot pass you on to the van manufacturer or a parts supplier (like your fridge or stove supplier).
But, hopefully, you will buy an orange and enjoy the great times of travelling !!!
Bill Brealey said
04:26 PM Jan 22, 2016
Hi Bruce,
Thank you for responding, I am already receiving good ideas from the membership.
Out of interest what van do you have?
Cheers,
Bil
Felicia said
06:49 PM Jan 22, 2016
Bill,
Have you ever owned a caravan before? My 2nd last van took me 2 years to find, my new van took 18 months. Have owned caravans for years.
Lynda
Desert Dweller said
06:54 PM Jan 22, 2016
Just go out & buy one you like from a reputable maker/dealer, it's as simple as that. Too much information will just confuse you. Naturally everyone will recommend the brand they currently own. We shopped around a lot & decided on a suitable van for our requirements, all good after 4 years. It's not ''rocket science''.
deverall11 said
07:56 PM Jan 22, 2016
Bill, All caravans are crap. The whole industry is agricultural and vans are sold by dealers who would have difficulties reaching a double digit IQ level. It comes down to what after sale service the dealer and manufacturer is prepared to offer in terms of support. After having all sorts of problem with our first van, we went and got a custom built Golden Eagle. Same factory as Paramount. We thought we were dealing with a reputable dealer. This was our dream van. They built it to our floor plan and we were stoked. They even liked it so much they indicated it would be part of their standard offering. We have had nothing but problems with this van. Every warrantable issue is a dispute. At this point in time we are so disillusioned that we don't want anything else to do with vans any longer. Should things change in the future and we off load this lemon, a Jayco is on the cards. I hate Jaycos with a passion (as much as Holden cars) however, Jayco will support you with unwritten unlimited warranty to the original owner. That is a good enough excuse to buy one.
Having said that, if you have unlimited funds and are happy to keep throwing money at your pride and joy, buy the first van you come across.
Larry
TAJ said
08:16 PM Jan 22, 2016
HI WELCOME have to agree with DESERT DWELLER we are on our third van took about 30 minutes
to buy does not matter what you buy or how much time you spend after a while you think
you should have changed a few things thats why people up date vans to change designsget
i have a supreme but would probably get a jayco after sales service 1st class
have one complaint DO NOT NEED FRONT WINDOW
TAJ
brickies said
08:42 PM Jan 22, 2016
Bill has I said everyone is different so take all all advice and use your gut instinct .
Cupie said
12:31 AM Jan 23, 2016
brickies wrote:
Bill has I said everyone is different so take all all advice and use your gut instinct .
I agree that we are all different.
For my part I would not be comfortable in making a major expenditure like buying a Caravan without undertaking serious research.
It was much easier when we brought our first (& only) caravan. The number of makers in Aus in 1999 was much less than the confusing range that there is today.
We first borrowed a couple of years issues of Caravan World from a neighbor & studied them in detail.
Went to Caravan Shows & talked to lots of sales persons.
Talked to every caravan owner that we knew. (No caravanner forums in those days & only one magazine available)
Visited all of the Van Yards within easy driving distance of where we lived & assessed not only their product but how they conducted themselves & the business in general.
After all this we had a good idea of what we thought we wanted in a caravan.
It was then a much easier job in narrowing down the dealers that we wanted to do business with and the preferred manufacturers.
In the end we chose the Jayco product because of their dominant market position and the perceived professionalism of their Brisbane dealer, Camperland.
Mind you there was a bit of gut feel in it too. When we were sitting in a 21'6" van doing the paper work for a 20' van, I stopped the proceedings with the news that I had changed my mind!
After a prolonged pause in proceedings, I informed SWMBO & the Sales person that I wanted the 21'6" van that we were sitting in. It turned out to be a great decision as we very much prefer the rear en-suite rather than the corner shower & toilet of the 20' model. The Jayco was one of very few that at that time offered that floor layout, but which seems to be an offering of most makers these days.
Good luck with your choice. I hope that it turns out to be as successful as ours was.
-- Edited by Cupie on Saturday 23rd of January 2016 12:32:42 AM
banjo said
08:07 AM Jan 23, 2016
Just remember a dealer or salesperson will tell you almost anything to get the sale ! do your homework well, visit van parks, ask the hard questions, look at fit and finish, and try and view it all past the "bling factor".
Wives love bling, dealers and manufacturers know this, so look at practicality instead of prettiness. It's a minefield out there be aware. Oh and forget glossy magazines, they are all advertorials paid by manufacturers to give that rosy glossy image of anything.
Just a few hints before parting with your hard earned cash.
littledick said
08:08 AM Jan 23, 2016
We had 5 in 7 years, all new, starting with the Jayco Eagle, used once. Then 16ft Fulcher pop top. Then 18ft Fulcher full van. Then 19.6ft Nova Vita. Now have the best, (my opinion) Concept 22.6 Ascot. This the last.
Don't talk about cars, that's another story.
Dick.
Brownie2 said
08:27 AM Jan 23, 2016
Easy solution. Just go and buy a Kimberley Kruiser!!
villatranquilla said
09:00 AM Jan 23, 2016
I'd suggest starting with a second hand van with the layout you think you like. This van will either be the first and last (you may hate caravanning after a few trips) or it will be the first of several vans because after living in it for a while you might find the layout doesn't quite suit. (been there done that)
I agree with several other posters re Jayco - very good warranty service and lots of dealers around the country. Yes there are lots of complaints but that's to be expected given they have the biggest market share.
We've had 2 Jayco's in the last few years (currently have a Roma) and if we were up-grading again it would probably be a Jayco.
Bushpie said
10:43 AM Jan 23, 2016
Great to see so many respnses to this thread......... As someone in the same boat we too have .....probably to much time before our purchase........ So we will be well and truly confused.
Good luck with your research Bill ....we look forward to seeing the end result
Looking forward to Perth caravan show in March..... Should be fun
Cupie said
11:37 AM Jan 23, 2016
banjo wrote:
Just remember a dealer or salesperson will tell you almost anything to get the sale ! do your homework well, visit van parks, ask the hard questions, look at fit and finish, and try and view it all past the "bling factor".
Wives love bling, dealers and manufacturers know this, so look at practicality instead of prettiness. It's a minefield out there be aware. Oh and forget glossy magazines, they are all advertorials paid by manufacturers to give that rosy glossy image of anything.
Just a few hints before parting with your hard earned cash.
Good advice ....
If a Salesman knocks the opposition rather than emphasising the virtues of his own product ... try elsewhere, he's one of the 'baddies'. You can often judge the organisation by the attitude/training of their employees.
In our experience with Brisbane Camperland the Sales person went through a long process to find out what we knew about vans & what thought we wanted. He gave his views & suggested that we consider certain alternatives before making a decision. It took some time to get round to looking at the sorts of vans that he had to show us, that might suit including suggestions for some changes during construction that might be appropriate. After delivery, several visits later, because I had never pulled a large van he drove home with us even reversed it into the difficult parking place beside the house. He had to get his boss to pick him up after the 'Welcome Home' party that followed.
-- Edited by Cupie on Saturday 23rd of January 2016 11:45:02 AM
03_Troopy said
08:08 PM Jan 23, 2016
Find a forum, that has dedicated owners subforums and do a bit of research there. If you googled something like "caravaners forum" you should come up with one or two. Then ask plenty of questions of people that own those types of vans.
As has been suggested try hiring a van first and see if you like it. You may not, but at least you'll find out before spending squillions on something, then having to sell at a big loss.
Only a fool would go out and invest such a large sum of money in something without any research..
Personally, I have an Avan 2011 model, smaller than what you're looking for. As far as I'm concerned, they aren't badly built. Not super solid, but then not many vans are. From mine, and a few others that I've looked at, the only real problem that I've seen, is the electrical wiring. None of it looks like it was installed by a tradesman, very poor workmanship, using amateurish techniques.
rockylizard said
10:01 AM Jan 24, 2016
Gday...
I agree with most of the comments in this thread.
It is quite a bit like buying a car/4x4 ultimately it is what YOU want from the purchase. Most of the things that we use to determine what we buy in a van/car/4x4 will come down to emotional decisions.
Usually that is after the technical things but, as I say, ultimately it will be YOUR choices/likes/preferences/needs and budget that will make the final decision.
It took me the last three years of my working life to decide on the van I ultimately bought. And the requirements and must-haves evolved, in twists and turns, over that time.
I have been living in that van for the past seven years and enjoying it immensely probably not perfect but it still suits me. Only a few minor things I would have included, but interestingly, most of those things were not available in a van when I bought seven years ago.
I have taken the following responses from this thread that I think (my personal opinion ) best sum up the problem of deciding which van is the best for you. These are the comments I most agree with personally, and feel could be the most helpful in the process of BUYING a van.
BRICKIES said:
everyone is different so take all advice and use your gut instinct.
PLENDO said:
I would have to agree with Brickies, everyone is different, different things are important to each of us.
You owe it to yourself to be thorough, establish what you need first, then add on what you want, build a good picture of your ideal van. Then as Brickies says apply the wet day test, imagine what it would be like being in the van for a wet couple of days. Think also what it will be like in the middle of summer.
When we looked, we spent about a year looking, keeping changing our mind, finding something better to the point where we were utterly confused. We then sat down and wrote it out, and that was important for us. That convinced us that what we wanted did not exist. So then we set about creating it.
We chose a base we were happy with, then designed the solution on top of that.
DESERT DWELLER said:
Just go out & buy one you like from a reputable maker/dealer, it's as simple as that. Too much information will just confuse you. Naturally everyone will recommend the brand they currently own. We shopped around a lot & decided on a suitable van for our requirements, all good after 4 years. It's not ''rocket science''.
VILLATRANQUILA said:
I'd suggest starting with a second hand van with the layout you think you like. This van will either be the first and last (you may hate caravanning after a few trips) or it will be the first of several vans because after living in it for a while you might find the layout doesn't quite suit.
03_TROOPY said:
Find a forum, that has dedicated owners sub-forums and do a bit of research there. If you googled something like "caravaners forum" you should come up with one or two. Then ask plenty of questions of people that own those types of vans.
Cheers - John
Treecrest14 said
11:27 AM Jan 24, 2016
Gday Bill
Firstly, are you planning on using your existing vehicle to tow the van?
If yes, then check what the tow bar download and tow strength is (usually attached to the tow bar), then what you vehicle is capable of towing. No sense in looking at or buying a van which you vehicle can't tow!
If not, then ensure you take a note of the van's weights etc as you will need this info when selecting your tow vehicle.
another point of interest - if you are going to park the van at your house, will you have to turn it around - Tandem vans take a lot of area to turn. That is why we stay with single axle vans as they can turn in the length of the van.
Once you have these decisions over, then start checking the vans...
chooknphil said
03:56 PM Jan 25, 2016
Totally agree. After 18 months of searching for a van (we had prev written off KK because of cost). Hubby decided on a van. By the time he added the necessary solar/water etc it became too heavy for what we wanted. We even went to 2 factories to look at the 2 vans on our short list. So we started the search again & luckily for us a used KK was for sale & after some negotiations, we paid the same as what we would have paid for the 'other' brand new, BUT have so much more for our money. Can't wait ti retire in late 2016
Greetings fellow vanners,
We are investigating caravans for when we retire later this year and are considering Bailey & Paramount vans around 22' long.
I would be interested in your thoughts.
Bill
Thank you, that's about what I thought we might need to do, starting this weekend we are off looking through a range of caravans with liveability in mind.
I would have to agree with Brickies, everyone is different, different things are important to each of us.
You owe it to yourself to be thorough, establish what you need first, then add on what you want, build a good picture of your ideal van. Then as Brickies says apply the wet day test, imagine what it would be like being in the van for a wet couple of days. Think also what it will be like in the middle of summer.
When we looked, we spent about a year looking, keeping changing our mind, finding something better to the point where we were utterly confused. We then sat down and wrote it out, and that was important for us. That convinced us that what we wanted did not exist. So then we set about creating it.
We chose a base we were happy with, then designed the solution on top of that.
We landed up with a solution that really does fit our needs, but it took three years.
I am not sure how set you are on the brands you mention, but we found we could not go past Retreat, their package suited us, and we like the way they handle customer service.
Thanks again,
As you only joined a few days ago, you wont have read the many and varied problems that people have had with different makes of Australian made caravans - believe me - there have been plenty.
There seems to be a general consensus that Australian made RV's are poorly constructed. Hopefully you will be one of those lucky enough to buy an orange and not a lemon lol.
If you have the time, go visit a few independent caravan repairers in your area and ask them what they think of the brand of van you are considering and also do a google search under the brand name and see if theres a site for customer feedback (independent from the one put up by the maker). Many vans have websites called "XXXX customer comment" or "xxxxx customer feedback". These can be useful.
When you buy your van take it away for about a week, preferably over some bumpy metalled roads (not mountain goat tracks) and use ALL the facilities that come with your new purchase. Have with you an exercise book and write down all the problems. Then when you get back, get in touch with the Dealer. Always make your complaints in writing (email) - never verbally, so you have an on-going record of the complaints. By law, the Dealer is responsible for all warranty repairs and cannot pass you on to the van manufacturer or a parts supplier (like your fridge or stove supplier).
But, hopefully, you will buy an orange and enjoy the great times of travelling !!!
Thank you for responding, I am already receiving good ideas from the membership.
Out of interest what van do you have?
Cheers,
Bil
Have you ever owned a caravan before? My 2nd last van took me 2 years to find, my new van took 18 months. Have owned caravans for years.
Lynda
Having said that, if you have unlimited funds and are happy to keep throwing money at your pride and joy, buy the first van you come across.
Larry
HI WELCOME have to agree with DESERT DWELLER we are on our third van took about 30 minutes
to buy does not matter what you buy or how much time you spend after a while you think
you should have changed a few things thats why people up date vans to change designsget
i have a supreme but would probably get a jayco after sales service 1st class
have one complaint DO NOT NEED FRONT WINDOW
TAJ
I agree that we are all different.
For my part I would not be comfortable in making a major expenditure like buying a Caravan without undertaking serious research.
It was much easier when we brought our first (& only) caravan. The number of makers in Aus in 1999 was much less than the confusing range that there is today.
We first borrowed a couple of years issues of Caravan World from a neighbor & studied them in detail.
Went to Caravan Shows & talked to lots of sales persons.
Talked to every caravan owner that we knew. (No caravanner forums in those days & only one magazine available)
Visited all of the Van Yards within easy driving distance of where we lived & assessed not only their product but how they conducted themselves & the business in general.
After all this we had a good idea of what we thought we wanted in a caravan.
It was then a much easier job in narrowing down the dealers that we wanted to do business with and the preferred manufacturers.
In the end we chose the Jayco product because of their dominant market position and the perceived professionalism of their Brisbane dealer, Camperland.
Mind you there was a bit of gut feel in it too. When we were sitting in a 21'6" van doing the paper work for a 20' van, I stopped the proceedings with the news that I had changed my mind!
After a prolonged pause in proceedings, I informed SWMBO & the Sales person that I wanted the 21'6" van that we were sitting in. It turned out to be a great decision as we very much prefer the rear en-suite rather than the corner shower & toilet of the 20' model. The Jayco was one of very few that at that time offered that floor layout, but which seems to be an offering of most makers these days.
Good luck with your choice. I hope that it turns out to be as successful as ours was.
-- Edited by Cupie on Saturday 23rd of January 2016 12:32:42 AM
Wives love bling, dealers and manufacturers know this, so look at practicality instead of prettiness. It's a minefield out there be aware. Oh and forget glossy magazines, they are all advertorials paid by manufacturers to give that rosy glossy image of anything.
Just a few hints before parting with your hard earned cash.
We had 5 in 7 years, all new, starting with the Jayco Eagle, used once. Then 16ft Fulcher pop top. Then 18ft Fulcher full van. Then 19.6ft Nova Vita. Now have the best, (my opinion) Concept 22.6 Ascot.
This the last.
Don't talk about cars, that's another story.
Dick.
I agree with several other posters re Jayco - very good warranty service and lots of dealers around the country. Yes there are lots of complaints but that's to be expected given they have the biggest market share.
We've had 2 Jayco's in the last few years (currently have a Roma) and if we were up-grading again it would probably be a Jayco.
Good luck with your research Bill ....we look forward to seeing the end result
Looking forward to Perth caravan show in March..... Should be fun
Good advice ....
If a Salesman knocks the opposition rather than emphasising the virtues of his own product ... try elsewhere, he's one of the 'baddies'. You can often judge the organisation by the attitude/training of their employees.
In our experience with Brisbane Camperland the Sales person went through a long process to find out what we knew about vans & what thought we wanted. He gave his views & suggested that we consider certain alternatives before making a decision. It took some time to get round to looking at the sorts of vans that he had to show us, that might suit including suggestions for some changes during construction that might be appropriate. After delivery, several visits later, because I had never pulled a large van he drove home with us even reversed it into the difficult parking place beside the house. He had to get his boss to pick him up after the 'Welcome Home' party that followed.
-- Edited by Cupie on Saturday 23rd of January 2016 11:45:02 AM
As has been suggested try hiring a van first and see if you like it. You may not, but at least you'll find out before spending squillions on something, then having to sell at a big loss.
Only a fool would go out and invest such a large sum of money in something without any research..
Personally, I have an Avan 2011 model, smaller than what you're looking for. As far as I'm concerned, they aren't badly built. Not super solid, but then not many vans are. From mine, and a few others that I've looked at, the only real problem that I've seen, is the electrical wiring. None of it looks like it was installed by a tradesman, very poor workmanship, using amateurish techniques.
Gday...
I agree with most of the comments in this thread.
It is quite a bit like buying a car/4x4 ultimately it is what YOU want from the purchase. Most of the things that we use to determine what we buy in a van/car/4x4 will come down to emotional decisions.
Usually that is after the technical things but, as I say, ultimately it will be YOUR choices/likes/preferences/needs and budget that will make the final decision.
It took me the last three years of my working life to decide on the van I ultimately bought. And the requirements and must-haves evolved, in twists and turns,
over that time.
I have been living in that van for the past seven years and enjoying it immensely probably not perfect but it still suits me. Only a few minor things I would have included, but interestingly, most of those things were not available in a van when I bought seven years ago.
I have taken the following responses from this thread that I think (my personal opinion
) best sum up the problem of deciding which van is the best for you. These are the comments I most agree with personally, and feel could be the most helpful in the process of BUYING a van.
BRICKIES said:
everyone is different so take all advice and use your gut instinct.
PLENDO said:
I would have to agree with Brickies, everyone is different, different things are important to each of us.
You owe it to yourself to be thorough, establish what you need first, then add on what you want, build a good picture of your ideal van. Then as Brickies says apply the wet day test, imagine what it would be like being in the van for a wet couple of days. Think also what it will be like in the middle of summer.
When we looked, we spent about a year looking, keeping changing our mind, finding something better to the point where we were utterly confused. We then sat down and wrote it out, and that was important for us. That convinced us that what we wanted did not exist. So then we set about creating it.
We chose a base we were happy with, then designed the solution on top of that.
DESERT DWELLER said:
Just go out & buy one you like from a reputable maker/dealer, it's as simple as that. Too much information will just confuse you. Naturally everyone will recommend the brand they currently own. We shopped around a lot & decided on a suitable van for our requirements, all good after 4 years. It's not ''rocket science''.
VILLATRANQUILA said:
I'd suggest starting with a second hand van with the layout you think you like. This van will either be the first and last (you may hate caravanning after a few trips) or it will be the first of several vans because after living in it for a while you might find the layout doesn't quite suit.
03_TROOPY said:
Find a forum, that has dedicated owners sub-forums and do a bit of research there. If you googled something like "caravaners forum" you should come up with one or two. Then ask plenty of questions of people that own those types of vans.
Cheers - John
Firstly, are you planning on using your existing vehicle to tow the van?
If yes, then check what the tow bar download and tow strength is (usually attached to the tow bar), then what you vehicle is capable of towing. No sense in looking at or buying a van which you vehicle can't tow!
If not, then ensure you take a note of the van's weights etc as you will need this info when selecting your tow vehicle.
another point of interest - if you are going to park the van at your house, will you have to turn it around - Tandem vans take a lot of area to turn. That is why we stay with single axle vans as they can turn in the length of the van.
Once you have these decisions over, then start checking the vans...
Totally agree. After 18 months of searching for a van (we had prev written off KK because of cost). Hubby decided on a van. By the time he added the necessary solar/water etc it became too heavy for what we wanted. We even went to 2 factories to look at the 2 vans on our short list. So we started the search again & luckily for us a used KK was for sale & after some negotiations, we paid the same as what we would have paid for the 'other' brand new, BUT have so much more for our money. Can't wait ti retire in late 2016