I contend that the Forum is heading in a direction that may well, ultimately, see its demise.
There have been several posts recently about substandard workmanship on a caravan purchased by one of the members. Rightly, or wrongly, the member has chosen to air his grievances on the forum. For this he has garnered some support and sympathy but he has also attracted some criticism for the method in which he has sought to demonstrate his problems.
Both the support and the criticisms are legitimate comments from fellow members.
Unfortunately, a number of the supporters have jumped on a bandwagon and relentlessly "bagged" the few members making critical comments. The attacks on those members have included the words "negative", "nasty comments", "comments being way off mark", "slagged him off" and others of similar ilk.
These comments demonstrate the exact mindset that the supporters are accusing others of. Consider this. I call the OP a fool for posting a topic and others jump to the OP's defense and call me a fool. Are you not now on the same level as the person you are referring to?
We all pride ourselves on living in a country where it is our right to comment freely without defaming others but some are very quick in their endeavours to deny the rights of a person making a comment that some people object to.
A healthy Forum will thrive on diverse opinions and, from that diversity, will continue to thrive and get stronger. A Forum in which every person agrees will die very quickly because there is no interest in the opinions of others.
I think it was George Washington that said "If two men agree on everything, you can be sure that only one is thinking" (or something similar).
A Forum is dependent on it's members to thrive. If members continue to denigrate others for what they have said because said member does not agree with the comment, how long before that member goes elsewhere and all the members that are here to learn something will learn it somewhere else.
Some of you members need to wake up to yourselves before there is only you and 5 others with similar views left here.
Thanks for taking the time to read this. I'll now retire to the Skull Cave with Diana and await the New Year.
Y'all have a nice day.
The Phantom
KFT said
03:58 PM Dec 31, 2015
Quite a considered post from the Phantom
I have no objections whatever to healthy debate. One of the good things about a forum such as this is that healthy debate can take place.
I do object to a personal attack though. This has almost always been a friendly and respectful place to discuss many and varied issues-respectfully.
All members are free to post the things that interest them that also may be of benefit to others but I see no need whatever to personally attack a member because they chose to document some findings about a caravan.
If a post is disagreeable to anyone they have the freedom of choice to ignore it and move on.
I wish everyone a Happy and healthy new year
Frank
Moorey said
04:26 PM Dec 31, 2015
I agree with your post Phanthom and can now understand the answer to the question asked in an earlier post as to where are all the nomads. I joined this group as I intend to travel next year hoping to find answers to problems that may arise prior to and in transit and to meet fellow members along the way. I believe the reason a large number of members do not post is they do not want to be put down and criticised for what appears a legitimate question or reply. Some people have never traveled or only little and a new or used van that takes a large portion of their finance is both daunting and exiting and an openly polite forum is the ideal place to get answers to your questions. There are a lot of members who I am sure would be willing to pass on their knowledge to assist newbies in their quest to travel this great country with as little worry as possible. I hope things change and that the membership, knowledge and friendship grows.
Will I be posting anymore... Probably not
Will I be remaining a member ???????
But I will always be courteous to people I meet during my travels and will always assist where needed.
Dave
The Phantom said
04:35 PM Dec 31, 2015
Moorey, add this to your avatar. It is the sign that The Phantom is a friend. Bad people's knees turn to jelly and run from it. You shouldn't have any more problems.
Phantom !! Really talk about the Pot calling the kettle black !! check your own past history of commenting,! and then show me any credibility, that may be attached to your opinion I followed that post, but did not comment, because it is a rare occassion that I come on here these days, however I praise him for taking the stand that he is !! the whole Caravan Industry is an Incompetent, un-controlled sham, ! that is severely lacking in any form of professionalism or responsibility And a man has a right to point out shoddy practises, after all his money was good enough, !! Shame about the product not being as promoted !! And as for his critics, saying , stop whinning, he can fix most of the problems himself !! He paid good money he deserved good product !
Who killed off this forum, !! NOT posts like you are referring to, ! But it's downfall can be greatly blamed on all the stupid troll like comments and posts by that small minority, that I gave the Label '' 2 % ers years ago make, I am sure I have included you in that group, on many past occassions !!
-- Edited by dazren on Thursday 31st of December 2015 04:52:06 PM
The Phantom said
05:44 PM Dec 31, 2015
dazren wrote:
Phantom !! Really talk about the Pot calling the kettle black !! check your own past history of commenting,! and then show me any credibility, that may be attached to your opinion I followed that post, but did not comment, because it is a rare occassion that I come on here these days, however I praise him for taking the stand that he is !! the whole Caravan Industry is an Incompetent, un-controlled sham, ! that is severely lacking in any form of professionalism or responsibility And a man has a right to point out shoddy practises, after all his money was good enough, !! Shame about the product not being as promoted !! And as for his critics, saying , stop whinning, he can fix most of the problems himself !! He paid good money he deserved good product !
Who killed off this forum, !! NOT posts like you are referring to, ! But it's downfall can be greatly blamed on all the stupid troll like comments and posts by that small minority, that I gave the Label '' 2 % ers years ago make, I am sure I have included you in that group, on many past occassions !!
-- Edited by dazren on Thursday 31st of December 2015 04:52:06 PM
Dazren, thank you for demonstrating to all and sundry the very crux of what I was trying to convey.
I have used the example of the poor workmanship as a way to illustrate the problems with this Forum. Nowhere have I made any judgement as to the rights or wrongs of the thread. I have made no comment regarding the state of the RV Industry in my post.
You have decided that my opinion is unworthy of the Forum and taken it upon yourself to use the Forum as a means of unloading on me. Unfortunately for you, I am not easily intimidated but others may find comments similar to yours to be hurtful and would then make up their mind whether to remain a member of the Forum or leave for a more respectful environment.
Unfortunately you are one of the people referred to in the original post that want to denigrate people that do not subscribe to your opinions and prejudices. Your attitude is a form of bullying that should be called at every opportunity.
Have a great New Year.
The Phantom
usedtobe said
05:47 PM Dec 31, 2015
Reading the thread referred to I was disappointed to read the put downs by some new to the forum, I too was pleased that their comments were deleted by Cindy, I did think though that a reminder could have been made regarding respectful and non derogatory remarks were not to be tolerated as per forum rules. Surely a member is entitled to share their caravan experience with those who read this forum without being bagged for doing so, to the original OP re his van, please keep us informed of your progress, ignorance is no substitute for knowledge.
Maybe we all need to be reminded of the old maxim before we post, that :
It is better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid, rather than open it and remove all doubt.
My wife bought that on a small brass plaque for me to put on my study desk 30 plus years ago....
I'll now wish you all a healthy and safe 2016.
DMaxer said
05:51 PM Dec 31, 2015
I freely admit that I am one of the critics. I don't understand what possesses anyone to jump on to a public forum, post under different headings and have a general meltdown over a problem that could easily have been avoided. I feel sorry for anyone that is disappointed when a purchase does not quite measure up to expectations, but I understood that it was not a case of wheels falling off, roof collapsing, foot through the floor or the fridge installed upside down. It was a few wires and some plastic pipe installed poorly. I don't think this requires a total meltdown and a call to arms by the "I Hate Jayco" lynch mob.
I recall about twelve months ago when a poster purchased his new van and had numerous serious issues. Contrast the way he handled that to the present case.
I have noticed that on this and other occasions if I post something that is contrary to the views of the "Mutual Admiration Society" I am bluntly told that if I don't agree with the post I should ignore it and not make negative comments. I don't quite understand why the makers of these comments don't apply the same rules to themselves. If they don't like my comments, why don't they just ignore them like they insist us of a different view are instructed to do.
I will be updating my van soon and Jayco is still one of my preferred options. One thing for sure, I certainly won't be telling any dealer that I am a member of this forum.
It is nice to know that there are still level headed people like The Phantom on this forum. Thank you for supporting those that choose to have an opinion, even if it differs from the majority.
I hope Jim has his van fixed quickly to his liking so that he may enjoy our great country at his leisure.
Happy New Year to you all.
Phil C said
06:55 PM Dec 31, 2015
Hi Guys
Wow, you know how to dish up a serve Phantom. In some of your points I agree. HOWEVER
What must be remembered is, that we respect opinions, offer helpful and safe advice, encourage people to post AND will the im just about to put up have the risk of being deleted?
A good test for all posts
Have a great new year...
Phil C said
07:01 PM Dec 31, 2015
KFT wrote:
Quite a considered post from the Phantom
I have no objections whatever to healthy debate. One of the good things about a forum such as this is that healthy debate can take place.
I do object to a personal attack though. This has almost always been a friendly and respectful place to discuss many and varied issues-respectfully.
All members are free to post the things that interest them that also may be of benefit to others but I see no need whatever to personally attack a member because they chose to document some findings about a caravan.
If a post is disagreeable to anyone they have the freedom of choice to ignore it and move on.
I wish everyone a Happy and healthy new year
Frank
Frank, you have hit the nail on the head again... Happy new year mate
rockylizard said
08:01 PM Dec 31, 2015
Gday...
Cheers - John
Bushpie said
08:33 PM Dec 31, 2015
I hope all are far more concerned with the "ICE" that seems to be inflicting far more damage on our friends and families than the thin ice floating around here...............
Cruising Cruze said
09:16 PM Dec 31, 2015
I bet that not many members even walked on thin ice
the last time I was around 10 years and I went straight thru it ,was bloody cold to
Have all a good New Year and the best wishes
Cheers John
-- Edited by Cruising Cruze on Thursday 31st of December 2015 10:01:36 PM
WobblyNut said
09:16 PM Dec 31, 2015
seems like "Deja vu"
I'm OUTA Here Again.
WON'T be back this time .
bye.
ballast2 said
11:14 PM Dec 31, 2015
G'day all. Perhaps as the new year approaches it is the time (as another member stated ) to make sure that when you get out of bed tomorrow keep your left foot in the bed. It will ensure that you start the new year on the right foot.
Cheers and all the best in 16.
TheHeaths said
11:45 PM Dec 31, 2015
I must say that I think the posts by Phantom and Dmaxer are very worthwhile and sensible. I agree with what they are trying to convey to everyone here, and suggest it has been done in a most reasonable and respectful manner. If only all posts were done with such consideration and respect, whilst conveying a contrary opinion.
I did leave for a short time, but decided to come back and ignore comments that I felt inappropriate. It shouldn't be that way, as everyone should be able to express their opinion freely and reasonably. I will now be much more selective in what and when I post, but I can assure you that the supposed "2%ers" are not the major issue here.
ballast2 said
01:12 AM Jan 1, 2016
G'day TheHeaths Welcome back. There will always some one who their opinions are better than others. I now read what I want and ignore others.
It is nearly new year here so have the best of 16
the rocket said
10:10 AM Jan 1, 2016
Don't think the demise of the forum will ever happen. People come and go. Happy new year. Stay happy. Rocket n strop
Webmaster said
12:28 PM Jan 1, 2016
First of all, Happy New Year everybody. I hope you’re all gearing up for an exciting and adventure- filled 2016. Yes, the forum is now very large and that inevitably means a variety of opinions will be expressed on what may, at first glance, be the most uncontroversial of subjects. This variety of opinion is what makes the forum strong – as long as people express their views in a respectful, friendly and helpful manner. If anyone feels that someone is resorting to less than respectful language or is simply trying to cause trouble, the best thing to do is to drop me a line and I will try to sort out the issue. We have pretty clear rules relating to forum behaviour and I will be enforcing those strictly over the year (and years) ahead to ensure that this remains a happy, friendly, informative – and enjoyable – place to visit.
I contend that the Forum is heading in a direction that may well, ultimately, see its demise.
There have been several posts recently about substandard workmanship on a caravan purchased by one of the members. Rightly, or wrongly, the member has chosen to air his grievances on the forum. For this he has garnered some support and sympathy but he has also attracted some criticism for the method in which he has sought to demonstrate his problems.
Both the support and the criticisms are legitimate comments from fellow members.
Unfortunately, a number of the supporters have jumped on a bandwagon and relentlessly "bagged" the few members making critical comments. The attacks on those members have included the words "negative", "nasty comments", "comments being way off mark", "slagged him off" and others of similar ilk.
These comments demonstrate the exact mindset that the supporters are accusing others of. Consider this. I call the OP a fool for posting a topic and others jump to the OP's defense and call me a fool. Are you not now on the same level as the person you are referring to?
We all pride ourselves on living in a country where it is our right to comment freely without defaming others but some are very quick in their endeavours to deny the rights of a person making a comment that some people object to.
A healthy Forum will thrive on diverse opinions and, from that diversity, will continue to thrive and get stronger. A Forum in which every person agrees will die very quickly because there is no interest in the opinions of others.
I think it was George Washington that said "If two men agree on everything, you can be sure that only one is thinking" (or something similar).
A Forum is dependent on it's members to thrive. If members continue to denigrate others for what they have said because said member does not agree with the comment, how long before that member goes elsewhere and all the members that are here to learn something will learn it somewhere else.
Some of you members need to wake up to yourselves before there is only you and 5 others with similar views left here.
Thanks for taking the time to read this. I'll now retire to the Skull Cave with Diana and await the New Year.
Y'all have a nice day.
The Phantom
I have no objections whatever to healthy debate. One of the good things about a forum such as this is that healthy debate can take place.
I do object to a personal attack though. This has almost always been a friendly and respectful place to discuss many and varied issues-respectfully.
All members are free to post the things that interest them that also may be of benefit to others but I see no need whatever to personally attack a member because they chose to document some findings about a caravan.
If a post is disagreeable to anyone they have the freedom of choice to ignore it and move on.
I wish everyone a Happy and healthy new year
Frank
Will I be posting anymore... Probably not
Will I be remaining a member ???????
But I will always be courteous to people I meet during my travels and will always assist where needed.
Dave
Moorey, add this to your avatar. It is the sign that The Phantom is a friend. Bad people's knees turn to jelly and run from it. You shouldn't have any more problems.
The Phantom
Who killed off this forum, !! NOT posts like you are referring to, ! But it's downfall can be greatly blamed on all the stupid troll like comments and posts by that small minority, that I gave the Label '' 2 % ers years ago make,
I am sure I have included you in that group, on many past occassions !!
-- Edited by dazren on Thursday 31st of December 2015 04:52:06 PM
Dazren, thank you for demonstrating to all and sundry the very crux of what I was trying to convey.
I have used the example of the poor workmanship as a way to illustrate the problems with this Forum. Nowhere have I made any judgement as to the rights or wrongs of the thread. I have made no comment regarding the state of the RV Industry in my post.
You have decided that my opinion is unworthy of the Forum and taken it upon yourself to use the Forum as a means of unloading on me. Unfortunately for you, I am not easily intimidated but others may find comments similar to yours to be hurtful and would then make up their mind whether to remain a member of the Forum or leave for a more respectful environment.
Unfortunately you are one of the people referred to in the original post that want to denigrate people that do not subscribe to your opinions and prejudices. Your attitude is a form of bullying that should be called at every opportunity.
Have a great New Year.
The Phantom
Maybe we all need to be reminded of the old maxim before we post, that :
It is better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid, rather than open it and remove all doubt.
My wife bought that on a small brass plaque for me to put on my study desk 30 plus years ago....
I'll now wish you all a healthy and safe 2016.
I freely admit that I am one of the critics. I don't understand what possesses anyone to jump on to a public forum, post under different headings and have a general meltdown over a problem that could easily have been avoided. I feel sorry for anyone that is disappointed when a purchase does not quite measure up to expectations, but I understood that it was not a case of wheels falling off, roof collapsing, foot through the floor or the fridge installed upside down. It was a few wires and some plastic pipe installed poorly. I don't think this requires a total meltdown and a call to arms by the "I Hate Jayco" lynch mob.
I recall about twelve months ago when a poster purchased his new van and had numerous serious issues. Contrast the way he handled that to the present case.
I have noticed that on this and other occasions if I post something that is contrary to the views of the "Mutual Admiration Society" I am bluntly told that if I don't agree with the post I should ignore it and not make negative comments. I don't quite understand why the makers of these comments don't apply the same rules to themselves. If they don't like my comments, why don't they just ignore them like they insist us of a different view are instructed to do.
I will be updating my van soon and Jayco is still one of my preferred options. One thing for sure, I certainly won't be telling any dealer that I am a member of this forum.
It is nice to know that there are still level headed people like The Phantom on this forum. Thank you for supporting those that choose to have an opinion, even if it differs from the majority.
I hope Jim has his van fixed quickly to his liking so that he may enjoy our great country at his leisure.
Happy New Year to you all.
Wow, you know how to dish up a serve Phantom. In some of your points I agree. HOWEVER
What must be remembered is, that we respect opinions, offer helpful and safe advice, encourage people to post AND will the im just about to put up have the risk of being deleted?
A good test for all posts
Have a great new year...
Frank, you have hit the nail on the head again... Happy new year mate
Gday...
Cheers - John
I hope all are far more concerned with the "ICE" that seems to be inflicting far more damage on our friends and families than the thin ice floating around here...............
I bet that not many members even walked on thin ice
the last time I was around 10 years and I went straight thru it ,was bloody cold to
Have all a good New Year and the best wishes
Cheers John
-- Edited by Cruising Cruze on Thursday 31st of December 2015 10:01:36 PM
seems like "Deja vu"
I'm OUTA Here Again.
WON'T be back this time .
bye.
Cheers and all the best in 16.
I did leave for a short time, but decided to come back and ignore comments that I felt inappropriate. It shouldn't be that way, as everyone should be able to express their opinion freely and reasonably. I will now be much more selective in what and when I post, but I can assure you that the supposed "2%ers" are not the major issue here.
G'day TheHeaths Welcome back. There will always some one who their opinions are better than others. I now read what I want and ignore others.
It is nearly new year here so have the best of 16
Don't think the demise of the forum will ever happen. People come and go. Happy new year. Stay happy. Rocket n strop
First of all, Happy New Year everybody. I hope you’re all gearing up for an exciting and adventure- filled 2016. Yes, the forum is now very large and that inevitably means a variety of opinions will be expressed on what may, at first glance, be the most uncontroversial of subjects. This variety of opinion is what makes the forum strong – as long as people express their views in a respectful, friendly and helpful manner. If anyone feels that someone is resorting to less than respectful language or is simply trying to cause trouble, the best thing to do is to drop me a line and I will try to sort out the issue. We have pretty clear rules relating to forum behaviour and I will be enforcing those strictly over the year (and years) ahead to ensure that this remains a happy, friendly, informative – and enjoyable – place to visit.