I am new to this forum and hoping for a bit of advise. My Tug 2004 NP Pajero fitted with Air Bags
I recently purchased a new Jürgen's Lunagazer J2403 Van, fitted with a AL-CO Friction Coupling, I have always been a believer in the use of a Weight Distribution Hitch (WDH) so naturally when I arrived at the Dealer to take delivery I was told that the Coupling is not compatible with using a WDH, I feel very uneasy towing the Van without a WDH as my NP Pajero feels very light on the steering with reduced control and braking, so far so good in controlled situations, I have made phone calls and sent several emails to both Jurgens and AL-CO with no response (very disappointing) So I am now thinking of replacing the AL-CO Coupling with a standard 50mm towing hitch and fitting the WDH, the loss of the effect of the Friction Coupling will far out weigh the advantage gained with the WDH.
Any thoughts or comments would be very much appreciated
Regards Poppie
rockylizard said
01:32 PM Dec 21, 2015
Gday...
Poppie - firstly ...
I have no firm knowledge of the Jurgens vans (or other European vans). However, I believe the problem with using a WDH on these vans is that the A-frames are not designed for the extra strain/pressure the WDH applies to the van/A-frame/hitch.
I understand it has been known to bend the A-frame.
Hopefully others will come along with more pertinent experience/knowledge of these vans to elaborate and/or advise I am incorrect.
[edit: perhaps you can re-arrange the way the van is loaded to provide a little less weight on the towball which may assist in regaining front steering.
However, you would be wise to firstly know the ACTUAL ATM of the van (van fully loaded) and the current weight on the towball. The 'rule-of-thumb' is for 8%>12% of ATM to be the ballweight. Another however, European vans are designed to have fairly light towball weights. I think that organising to have the van weighed and then, knowing the actual weights, you begin to search for solutions. The problem may not need a WDH at all - just re-arranging things.]
Cheers - John
-- Edited by rockylizard on Monday 21st of December 2015 01:37:20 PM
poppie said
02:21 PM Dec 21, 2015
Hi John,
Thanks for your quick reply, Every thing that you mentioned I have considered, the later model Lunagazers (including mine) have the A frame strengthened to, I believe accept a WDH, so I don't have a problem in that regards, this strengthening is an extra "C" section welded in to the frame to close it in, it is about 12" long (that's Nomad speak) in the area where the "snap up" bracket is attached. To date I haven't put the rig over the bridge but with an Spec ATM of 2100kg and my actual Ball weight being 160kg's (8%) I think that I do need to mess to much with Van loading,
Thanks for your input.
Ian
Footprints said
03:03 PM Dec 21, 2015
I would think twice about a WDH before fitting. The extra strain would be along the entire length of the A frame from the point of coupling to the van suspension point. i would not think that a small area of reinforcement would be sufficient. Suggest clarification from Jurgens.
Cheers Allen
poppie said
03:23 PM Dec 21, 2015
Thanks Allen
I will take your comments on board, I think I'll try to contact Jurgens again, despite past failures
Regards Ian
Graden said
11:19 PM Dec 21, 2015
Hi, we have a Swift van slightly bigger than yours, but same construction etc made in the UK for Australia. Would not advise fitting a WDH as you will alter the towing characteristics in a negative way. The ALKO system is designed to combat ecxessive "sway" moments and make the van more stable. You must ensure that the van is balanced correctly, ie max of 140kgs on tow ball or whatever the tow vehicle spec says whichever is lower. Do not place heavy items at the front or rear of the van to obtain tow ball weight as you will tend to generate a "pendelum" sway which can be very dangerous, keep heavy items close to the vans centre over the axles. As long as you have a positive tow ball weight of about 60-80kgs minimum you will be OK towing. The WDH is not an antisway system but is a method of distributing excessive ball weight from the rear of the tow vehicle to the front to maintain the steering and braking of the tow vehicles characteristics in a safe way, but it puts additional strain on both chassis that they may not be designed for.
Cheers and safe travels.
poppie said
09:43 AM Dec 22, 2015
Hi Graden,
Thanks for your reply, and a really good reply at that, it was just the type of info I have been searching for.
The compliance plate on my van does state that the ball weight must be between 145kg to a max 225kg, my actual ball load is 160kg, so will take your advise and rearrange my load to achieve 145kg, I am also thinking of renewing my rear springs as being a 2004 Pajero no doubt they would be a bit tired, thinking this may help with the load carrying capabilities
Thanks for your input
Ian
reeb51 said
04:33 PM Dec 23, 2015
Hi Poppie, I have a NP Pajero with a Lunagazer behind. Toe ball weight loaded 190. The Paj has air bags and Pedders heavy duty springs. Have travelled approx 60 thou towing the Luna and never felt unsafe or had any unwanted behavioural problems with the van or Paj. Never felt the need for wdh. Had wdh for the Avan similar weight etc and that needed it.
poppie said
06:22 PM Dec 23, 2015
Thanks for your reply Barry,
Your comment is exactly the feedback I have been waiting for, even better that your rig is the same, great stuff.
So it would seem I will now go ahead with a spring upgrade, I would hope that a heavy duty spring changeover would not lift the rear to much as I am after improved load carrying capability's,
Thanks again
This has been the 1st time that I have used a Forum, have read a lot over the years and I cant help but be impressed with how well this Forum has preformed and the quality of the feedback received,
many thanks to all who have replied and helped me with my inquiry.
Hello Nomads,
I am new to this forum and hoping for a bit of advise. My Tug 2004 NP Pajero fitted with Air Bags
I recently purchased a new Jürgen's Lunagazer J2403 Van, fitted with a AL-CO Friction Coupling, I have always been a believer in the use of a Weight Distribution Hitch (WDH) so naturally when I arrived at the Dealer to take delivery I was told that the Coupling is not compatible with using a WDH, I feel very uneasy towing the Van without a WDH as my NP Pajero feels very light on the steering with reduced control and braking, so far so good in controlled situations, I have made phone calls and sent several emails to both Jurgens and AL-CO with no response (very disappointing) So I am now thinking of replacing the AL-CO Coupling with a standard 50mm towing hitch and fitting the WDH, the loss of the effect of the Friction Coupling will far out weigh the advantage gained with the WDH.
Any thoughts or comments would be very much appreciated
Regards Poppie
Gday...
Poppie - firstly ...
I have no firm knowledge of the Jurgens vans (or other European vans). However, I believe the problem with using a WDH on these vans is that the A-frames are not designed for the extra strain/pressure the WDH applies to the van/A-frame/hitch.
I understand it has been known to bend the A-frame.
Hopefully others will come along with more pertinent experience/knowledge of these vans to elaborate and/or advise I am incorrect.
[edit: perhaps you can re-arrange the way the van is loaded to provide a little less weight on the towball which may assist in regaining front steering.
However, you would be wise to firstly know the ACTUAL ATM of the van (van fully loaded) and the current weight on the towball. The 'rule-of-thumb' is for 8%>12% of ATM to be the ballweight. Another however,
European vans are designed to have fairly light towball weights. I think that organising to have the van weighed and then, knowing the actual weights, you begin to search for solutions. The problem may not need a WDH at all - just re-arranging things.]
Cheers - John
-- Edited by rockylizard on Monday 21st of December 2015 01:37:20 PM
Thanks for your quick reply, Every thing that you mentioned I have considered, the later model Lunagazers (including mine) have the A frame strengthened to, I believe accept a WDH, so I don't have a problem in that regards, this strengthening is an extra "C" section welded in to the frame to close it in, it is about 12" long (that's Nomad speak) in the area where the "snap up" bracket is attached. To date I haven't put the rig over the bridge but with an Spec ATM of 2100kg and my actual Ball weight being 160kg's (8%) I think that I do need to mess to much with Van loading,
Thanks for your input.
Ian
I would think twice about a WDH before fitting. The extra strain would be along the entire length of the A frame from the point of coupling to the van suspension point. i would not think that a small area of reinforcement would be sufficient. Suggest clarification from Jurgens.
Cheers Allen
I will take your comments on board, I think I'll try to contact Jurgens again, despite past failures
Regards Ian
Cheers and safe travels.
Thanks for your reply, and a really good reply at that, it was just the type of info I have been searching for.
The compliance plate on my van does state that the ball weight must be between 145kg to a max 225kg, my actual ball load is 160kg, so will take your advise and rearrange my load to achieve 145kg, I am also thinking of renewing my rear springs as being a 2004 Pajero no doubt they would be a bit tired, thinking this may help with the load carrying capabilities
Thanks for your input
Ian
Your comment is exactly the feedback I have been waiting for, even better that your rig is the same, great stuff.
So it would seem I will now go ahead with a spring upgrade, I would hope that a heavy duty spring changeover would not lift the rear to much as I am after improved load carrying capability's,
Thanks again
This has been the 1st time that I have used a Forum, have read a lot over the years and I cant help but be impressed with how well this Forum has preformed and the quality of the feedback received,
many thanks to all who have replied and helped me with my inquiry.
Ian (AKA) Poppie