This is a very telling article! No wonder local govt is legislating to address the problem, I've always felt there was a strong contingent of so called grey nomads who are in fact little more than fringe dwellers, camping by stealth in and around city/urban area's.
They have nothing in common with grey nomads doing the lap and seeing Australia, what they are doing is making life difficult for people who are trying to do the right thing.
There are almost 10,000 people of no fixed address in Western Australia, many of whom live in their cars, obviously they feel it is their right to camp where and when they please, someone has to tell em it ain't so.
Some people live in their cars or cargo vans because they have no choice not because that's how they want to live. I suppose they could be called the modern homeless, I'seeing more and more of them in our local area particularly in the 24hr free camp.
Kev
the rocket said
12:05 PM Dec 3, 2015
I am a bit perplexed. What is the right thing? Are you suggesting if you own a house (maybe rent it out) and travel for perhaps years stopping in lots of places then you have the right to free camp but the people deciding to stay in the same Area for a period of time should not have that privledge.
Santa said
12:06 PM Dec 3, 2015
What I'm saying here Kev is that there is a definite distinction between grey nomads and people in cities living in vehicles because they have no alternative, authorities seem to lump both groups together.
I imagine my original post will generate a lot of argy bargy.
03_Troopy said
01:31 PM Dec 3, 2015
If they are abiding by the rules of the places they camp in, I don't see a problem. They have the same right to stay in them as anyone else. But flaunting time limit, self contained and no camping rules, or not paying where it is required, is obviously not on.
jules47 said
01:35 PM Dec 3, 2015
I reckon you ae right Santa - your post will most likely stir some up!!!
I know there are homeless people living all over this country - when you travel you see them, some are lucky enough to have a van, so at least they can stretch out, some don't, my son lived in his car for a short while, when he had a relationship breakup, and had disagreements with his dad, so didn't want to come home, we eventually found him and took him home to sort his life out, which he did.
He told me of several others who slept in their cars where he had been sleeping, nobody bothered them, more just avoided them.
We know personally several who have now been moved on in northern NSW, where they had been living in vans, and even a tent, for years, most found other spots to go, some just move around the area constantly, sleeping where they can. Saw a guy in Esperance WA the other day, with what looked like his worldly possessions in several bags on his back, another was in Busselton WA, who slept in a park garden under some trees, or in the shelter in the park, his possesions were in a shopping trolley, both these incidences were in the main streets of the towns.
Some of these people are homeless by choice, others by accident, some do work, others don't. Just because you have a job, doesn't mean you can rent somewhere to live.
-- Edited by jules47 on Thursday 3rd of December 2015 01:38:27 PM
Desert Dweller said
04:14 PM Dec 3, 2015
When the mining boom was in full swing WA was bragging (complaining) that they were supporting the Eastern States. Now the mining boom is over we're supporting them & unemployment in WA has risen considerably resulting in lots of people struggling. Some living in cars.
elliemike said
04:25 PM Dec 3, 2015
Desert Dweller wrote:
When the mining boom was in full swing WA was bragging (complaining) that they were supporting the Eastern States. Now the mining boom is over we're supporting them & unemployment in WA has risen considerably resulting in lots of people struggling. Some living in cars.
Is this correct ? The other states supporting WA that is. I'm not wanting to start an argument just interested in the figures !
-- Edited by elliemike on Thursday 3rd of December 2015 04:30:00 PM
NeilandRaine said
05:51 PM Dec 3, 2015
$800 million would build a lot of houses
Desert Dweller said
06:26 PM Dec 3, 2015
elliemike wrote:
Desert Dweller wrote:
When the mining boom was in full swing WA was bragging (complaining) that they were supporting the Eastern States. Now the mining boom is over we're supporting them & unemployment in WA has risen considerably resulting in lots of people struggling. Some living in cars.
Is this correct ? The other states supporting WA that is. I'm not wanting to start an argument just interested in the figures !
From the point of view of there being lots of people employed in mining, earning big bucks & most of all paying lots of TAX into the Federal Government's coffers it's correct. People out of work pay no tax basically so WA is no longer the ''cash cow'' it once was for the Government.
-- Edited by elliemike on Thursday 3rd of December 2015 04:30:00 PM
Moonraker said
06:35 PM Dec 3, 2015
And I dont know where bragging came from either.
I worked in the steel fabrication industry in WA, thankfully retired now, just in time as it happens!
Of the mining infrastructure boom half of it came in from over seas, of the remainder half again came from the Eastern states. So you lot over there got you share of the boom also.
What is a problem here is that we retain less and less each year of the GST raised here. Dont quote me but I think we retain about 40% of what is collected here. Not to worry though we are one country so you lot over there will have to give it back at some point but I guess you will be calling it a bail out! Call it what you like!
With regards to the topic we grey nomads are fortunate that we can afford our rigs. The poor blue collars as the are called in the topic have just the crumbs to feed off. Perhaps the next time you come across one give them a helping hand and offer them some breakfast or dinner. After all they are some of the next generation that will in the future be responsible for how long our super will last!
Happy travels
Desert Dweller said
07:04 PM Dec 3, 2015
Moonraker wrote:
And I don't know where bragging came from either.
The bragging didn't come from the WA people it came from the WA Premier at a State Premiers Conference a few years back.
jules47 said
08:44 PM Dec 3, 2015
Outside a shopping centre, was a guy leaning agains a wall, smoking, as I approached, he stood up and asked me if I could spare him some money to get some food - I said no, because he was smoking - if you can't afford food, you most certainly cannot afford to smoke in this day and age.
WobblyNut said
08:56 PM Dec 3, 2015
I KNOW , billionaires & millionaires who have lost everything.
And guess what . It Was Not pretty to see how they ended up.
To see anyone down on their luck is Not pretty , whatever their circumstance.
I AM Grateful I have a nice home & when I travel I have a comfortable bed & shelter.
There but for the Grace . Go I.
Phil Owen said
10:41 PM Dec 3, 2015
You are dead right there, Wobblie some of us could easily be in the same situation.
The Phantom said
12:22 AM Dec 4, 2015
I believe that some (formally) rich folks are arriving at Gregson's (local auctioneers) in Porsche's and Mercedes and leaving in taxis. Things ain't what they used to be.
The Phantom
banjo said
08:47 AM Dec 4, 2015
The Wa mining industry doesn't just employ sandgropers, our son in law has been in the mines for 10 years, lots of his workmates live and fly in from the Eastern states !
And the industry may have slowed down but it still produces big $ to the whole Australian economy, not just WA.
Some need to get their facts right.
" Desert Dweller wrote:
When the mining boom was in full swing WA was bragging (complaining) that they were supporting the Eastern States. Now the mining boom is over we're supporting them & unemployment in WA has risen considerably resulting in lots of people struggling. Some living in cars.
Is this correct ? The other states supporting WA that is. I'm not wanting to start an argument just interested in the figures !
From the point of view of there being lots of people employed in mining, earning big bucks & most of all paying lots of TAX into the Federal Government's coffers it's correct. People out of work pay no tax basically so WA is no longer the ''cash cow'' it once was for the Government."
Bryan said
12:25 PM Dec 4, 2015
Desert Dweller wrote:
Moonraker wrote:
And I don't know where bragging came from either.
The bragging didn't come from the WA people it came from the WA Premier at a State Premiers Conference a few years back.
Who cares who brags and who gives what to whom, we are one country after all and the haves need to support the have nots and as the big wheel turns whoever is on top today will eventually hit bottom one day. I also happen to agree with The Rocket, the only difference between the urban nomad and the touring nomad is either a matter of preference or circumstances.
Bruce and Bev said
12:35 PM Dec 4, 2015
I'm a Groper and have been in the resource industry.
While I feel sorry for some who have been laid off (16% of those in this industry are recorded as unemployed), others wasted all the money they were paid.
I'm sure some of you saw on a TV new programme) the female train driver who was made redundant last year. She admitted she spent all her wages (train drivers up North were earning about $180K pa) and didn't invest or save. She did have a rented house. Now she is unemployed, homeless, no vehicle and no money and about to be bankrupted by a Bank for her credit card debt.
I don't feel sorry for her. The major resource companies introduced automated trains about 10 years ago and automated heavy trucks about 12 years or so ago. They made no secret of this and all the workers knew that their jobs would disappear as automated mining was rolled out and new (and labour intensive) sites slowed down.
The smarter ones, used their money with more care and have one or more freehold houses, a vehicle that the Bank doesn't own and money in the Bank so they can afford to re-tool themselves into new work (yep - there is still work available in WA)
Santa said
12:40 PM Dec 4, 2015
Wondering if anyone read and comprehended the original post?
rockylizard said
01:00 PM Dec 4, 2015
Gday...
Santa, the secret is the reading of the linked report - rather than the typed words introducing the link.
I would wager (and probably lose ) that few have read all the news article in the link.
cheers - John
Santa said
02:11 PM Dec 4, 2015
rockylizard wrote:
Gday...
Santa, the secret is the reading of the linked report - rather than the typed words introducing the link.
I would wager (and probably lose ) that few have read all the news article in the link.
This is a very telling article! No wonder local govt is legislating to address the problem, I've always felt there was a strong contingent of so called grey nomads who are in fact little more than fringe dwellers, camping by stealth in and around city/urban area's.
They have nothing in common with grey nomads doing the lap and seeing Australia, what they are doing is making life difficult for people who are trying to do the right thing.
There are almost 10,000 people of no fixed address in Western Australia, many of whom live in their cars, obviously they feel it is their right to camp where and when they please, someone has to tell em it ain't so.
http://www.theage.com.au/wa-news/dont-call-me-homeless-perths-blue-collar-nomads-living-in-their-cars-20151126-gl8lij.html
Kev
I am a bit perplexed. What is the right thing? Are you suggesting if you own a house (maybe rent it out) and travel for perhaps years stopping in lots of places then you have the right to free camp but the people deciding to stay in the same Area for a period of time should not have that privledge.
What I'm saying here Kev is that there is a definite distinction between grey nomads and people in cities living in vehicles because they have no alternative, authorities seem to lump both groups together.
I imagine my original post will generate a lot of argy bargy.
I reckon you ae right Santa - your post will most likely stir some up!!!
I know there are homeless people living all over this country - when you travel you see them, some are lucky enough to have a van, so at least they can stretch out, some don't, my son lived in his car for a short while, when he had a relationship breakup, and had disagreements with his dad, so didn't want to come home, we eventually found him and took him home to sort his life out, which he did.
He told me of several others who slept in their cars where he had been sleeping, nobody bothered them, more just avoided them.
We know personally several who have now been moved on in northern NSW, where they had been living in vans, and even a tent, for years, most found other spots to go, some just move around the area constantly, sleeping where they can. Saw a guy in Esperance WA the other day, with what looked like his worldly possessions in several bags on his back, another was in Busselton WA, who slept in a park garden under some trees, or in the shelter in the park, his possesions were in a shopping trolley, both these incidences were in the main streets of the towns.
Some of these people are homeless by choice, others by accident, some do work, others don't. Just because you have a job, doesn't mean you can rent somewhere to live.
-- Edited by jules47 on Thursday 3rd of December 2015 01:38:27 PM
Is this correct ? The other states supporting WA that is. I'm not wanting to start an argument just interested in the figures !
-- Edited by elliemike on Thursday 3rd of December 2015 04:30:00 PM
I worked in the steel fabrication industry in WA, thankfully retired now, just in time as it happens!
Of the mining infrastructure boom half of it came in from over seas, of the remainder half again came from the Eastern states. So you lot over there got you share of the boom also.
What is a problem here is that we retain less and less each year of the GST raised here. Dont quote me but I think we retain about 40% of what is collected here. Not to worry though we are one country so you lot over there will have to give it back at some point but I guess you will be calling it a bail out! Call it what you like!
With regards to the topic we grey nomads are fortunate that we can afford our rigs. The poor blue collars as the are called in the topic have just the crumbs to feed off. Perhaps the next time you come across one give them a helping hand and offer them some breakfast or dinner. After all they are some of the next generation that will in the future be responsible for how long our super will last!
Happy travels
The bragging didn't come from the WA people it came from the WA Premier at a State Premiers Conference a few years back.
I KNOW , billionaires & millionaires who have lost everything.
And guess what . It Was Not pretty to see how they ended up.
To see anyone down on their luck is Not pretty , whatever their circumstance.
I AM Grateful I have a nice home & when I travel I have a comfortable bed & shelter.
There but for the Grace . Go I.
You are dead right there, Wobblie some of us could easily be in the same situation.
I believe that some (formally) rich folks are arriving at Gregson's (local auctioneers) in Porsche's and Mercedes and leaving in taxis. Things ain't what they used to be.
The Phantom
And the industry may have slowed down but it still produces big $ to the whole Australian economy, not just WA.
Some need to get their facts right.
" Desert Dweller wrote:
When the mining boom was in full swing WA was bragging (complaining) that they were supporting the Eastern States. Now the mining boom is over we're supporting them & unemployment in WA has risen considerably resulting in lots of people struggling. Some living in cars.
Is this correct ? The other states supporting WA that is. I'm not wanting to start an argument just interested in the figures !
From the point of view of there being lots of people employed in mining, earning big bucks & most of all paying lots of TAX into the Federal Government's coffers it's correct. People out of work pay no tax basically so WA is no longer the ''cash cow'' it once was for the Government."
Who cares who brags and who gives what to whom, we are one country after all and the haves need to support the have nots and as the big wheel turns whoever is on top today will eventually hit bottom one day. I also happen to agree with The Rocket, the only difference between the urban nomad and the touring nomad is either a matter of preference or circumstances.
While I feel sorry for some who have been laid off (16% of those in this industry are recorded as unemployed), others wasted all the money they were paid.
I'm sure some of you saw on a TV new programme) the female train driver who was made redundant last year. She admitted she spent all her wages (train drivers up North were earning about $180K pa) and didn't invest or save. She did have a rented house. Now she is unemployed, homeless, no vehicle and no money and about to be bankrupted by a Bank for her credit card debt.
I don't feel sorry for her. The major resource companies introduced automated trains about 10 years ago and automated heavy trucks about 12 years or so ago. They made no secret of this and all the workers knew that their jobs would disappear as automated mining was rolled out and new (and labour intensive) sites slowed down.
The smarter ones, used their money with more care and have one or more freehold houses, a vehicle that the Bank doesn't own and money in the Bank so they can afford to re-tool themselves into new work (yep - there is still work available in WA)
Wondering if anyone read and comprehended the original post?
Gday...
Santa, the secret is the reading of the linked report - rather than the typed words introducing the link.
I would wager (and probably lose
) that few have read all the news article in the link.
cheers - John
Reckon your right John.