Am currently in Sydney and working on the car/caravan hitch problem.
Stopped caravan repairer: WDH 'may' fix problem. We just need to cut away, relocate all on draw bar, to afix. Around $500. Oh, we're booked out until after Xmas.
Pedders: Bring the car in and we'll check the suspension. You may need heavy duty springs, which 'may' help. I ask, 'So if I bring it in for you to look at you can do work needed. 'Probably not, were booked out'.
Tomorrow, I'm going to call the folk here that installed the tow bar on the car to see if they have something that will raise the height of the tow ball.
I do have a water tank question. I have never had water in the tank. I looked under the van, for the first time, today, and I see that the water tank is to the rear of the wheels. If I fill it, would that add weight to the rear end and raise the front?
J.
Moonraker said
08:31 PM Dec 2, 2015
Jamjar,
Assuming your not joking, I note you are a Veteren Member!
Over 40 people have read your posted topic with no replies!
Probably because what you have written suggests you need to find a knowledgeable person in Sydney very quickly to give you good advise once they have seen your rig and setup.
They will be able to see what vehicle you are towing with, the van being towed. Quckly determine if they are suited. They can check weights of the van including the ball weight. If the vehicle is legally capable of towing the van, the vehicles condition can be checked.
I strongly suggest you do nothing until you get good advise that I dont think you can possibly get from a forum unless there is somebody on this forum who has the knowledge and is close to your location. In which case ask with another posted topic. Otherwise may be a caravan tow training school should be able to advise you or a good caravan sales yard should be able to provide you with recommendations or even somebody you can contact.
Good luck
Jamjar said
08:45 PM Dec 2, 2015
No I'm not joking. My post is an update on an earlier one.
The van and car are suited. Just a little 13' poptop 620 tare, towed buy a Holden Calais. The problem is drop of rear of car - raising front - when caravan attached.
The caravan was attached to the car when I stopped at Camden Caravans and the owner looked at it.
It was pointed out that the van's tires have started to perish, which is interesting as I only got the blue slip in October. So, new tires will be on, on Saturday morning, before I leave for Qld.
J.
-- Edited by Jamjar on Wednesday 2nd of December 2015 08:46:29 PM
Moonraker said
10:57 PM Dec 2, 2015
I would say most of what I have written still applies.
Questions I would be asking if I were you are, is the tow vehicle in good condition and serviced. It will need to be capable of carrying the van ball weight plus the weight of anything else that is loaded into the car. You can probably check the ball weight of your van with bathroom scales if they can weight up to around 100kg. Also check the carrying and towing capacity of the car, should be in the handbook.
The van ball weight should be around 10% of the vans GVM, when loaded. The van should have a GVM max weight stated on it along with the tare weight. You should ensure the van is not overloaded.
The car and van should be almost level when connected up. It obviously isn't, so I would guess that either the van is over weight or the ball weight is excessive. Additionally the cars suspension could be tired and not capable of its stated tow and carrying weights.
A WDH will help level the rig but should not be used to compensate for tired suspension or too high a ball weight or overloaded van.
My advise is find an experienced person to check it for you.
Tyre's should be replaced at about 5 years of age even if they have lots of tread and covered few kms. Also ensure you have correct tyre pressures on both the van and car.
Good luck.
reglynn said
11:10 PM Dec 2, 2015
Did you by the van first or after, is the axles above or below the springs, what size are the tyres of the car to the van.
There is an option that you could put air bags in the coils to bring the back up or WDH bars to move some weight on the front.
The blue slip well means ?????(nothing) to me, the water tank full might lift the front a bit.
Hope it's helpful to you, i know there is are a lot of more knowable people out there.
Cheers reg.
Jamjar said
11:41 PM Dec 2, 2015
Thank you, Moonraker and Reg.
I have been doing more internet reading since posting this and yes, it has been said that water behind axles should lower ball weight.
The car itself is very well maintained, but shocks and springs haven't been checked as there weren't any signs they needed to be.
Blue slip, Reg, is inspection in NSW needed when registering interstate vehicle and the caravan came to NSW from QLD. I specifically asked the mechanic if the tyres were all good at time of inspection and he said yes, so I didn't get down there to look at them myself.
Tomorrow morn, I'll measure the height of coupling on A frame and height of ball on car. The car's tow bar looks low to me. If this is the case it could be a cheaper fix.
Moonraker, the point of my first post here was to show that even if you seek help of the professionals, you still can't get the work done when needed. In fact I had to get quite angry with the folk at the caravan centre, as they weren't even going to have a look and give me an opinion. The conversation began with, 'did you buy the van from us'? I pointed out that I didn't, but that I had bought all my accessories for my first van and for this one from their onsite shop.
The car and van tow extremely well, but I am very aware that having the front of car raised affects breaking - have been lucky only to have towed on dry road and no sudden braking thus far - and having the back low will not be good for rear suspension and tires over the long term.
Funny isn't it how even if you're prepared to spend the money you can't get the work done.
I'll be in Maroochydore next Tuesday and if what I try here, by Friday, doesn't lift it, I'll call Maroochydore ahead and get something sorted there.
J.
Jamjar said
11:45 PM Dec 2, 2015
reglynn wrote:
Did you by the van first or after, is the axles above or below the springs, what size are the tyres of the car to the van.
There is an option that you could put air bags in the coils to bring the back up or WDH bars to move some weight on the front.
The blue slip well means ?????(nothing) to me, the water tank full might lift the front a bit.
Hope it's helpful to you, i know there is are a lot of more knowable people out there.
Cheers reg.
Reg, the tyre sizes I can't recall, but will be discussing this on Saturday when getting the new ones. I don't know whether the axels are above or below the springs, but whichever they are, they won't be changed.
Yes, could have the airbags, but at this stage the WDH won't happen if it will cost $500.
J.
Delta18 said
12:44 AM Dec 3, 2015
Jamjar wrote:
Funny isn't it how even if you're prepared to spend the money you can't get the work done.
J.
You have to remember it is 3 weeks to Christmas, maybe 2 weeks to school holidays. Many people will be trying to get servicing done on vehicles at the last minute prior to travelling.
Be very careful adding weight (water) to the rear of the van to lift the front until you have got weights of the van AND ball weight. You may create a monster.
greyhoundtom said
04:56 AM Dec 3, 2015
Jamjar wrote
Reg, the tyre sizes I can't recall, but will be discussing this on Saturday when getting the new ones. I don't know whether the axels are above or below the springs, but whichever they are, they won't be changed.
Yes, could have the airbags, but at this stage the WDH won't happen if it will cost $500.
J.
The best way to fix the towing problems you are having is with a weight distribution hitch, and $500 to have one fitted seems a fair price to me.
Rasty said
08:31 AM Dec 3, 2015
Hi Jamjar,
A little hint they may help after 40 yrs in auto industry ,apart from the previously mentioned items that are you first steps,
Some cars don't have a particularly strong rears ,in fact years ago a particular model actually bent the rear end of the car from under the rear window area back when towing which was seen as the start of the "tow paks for cars",hence this has mostly been sorted over the years .
One of the areas you can work on with the car is a set of quality air shocks fitted by someone that knows what they are doing,ie an Auto Technician (mechanic).No matter how many Wdh's you fit, if the std shocks are weak it will l sag .No don't go to P-----s for the shocks ,buy good ones ,I suggest ARB then you have availability to warranty work nearly any where .
In regard to this and your van ,I have just purchased a Kingswood Kensington ,the previous owner towed it since new with a BF Falcon his only mod to the car was a set of air shocks so that he could control the car and a WDH on the van,this is a 1900kg tare van probably well on or just over towball capacity.I have seen the car on the 21 ft van and its perfectly level. So apply the correct weights to your equation car and van then tweek it to suit a happy and level tow.
Rasty
Jamjar said
09:01 AM Dec 3, 2015
Yes, Rasty, I will definitely be looking at the car's rear suspension.
As another member mentioned it is a bad time of year to be looking at getting work done.
I know Pedders get a bad rap but I live in a village in Central West NSW and Pedders or their authorised dealers are accessible.
J.
PeterInSa said
09:22 AM Dec 3, 2015
Jamjar, do you have Torsion Bars fitted now?
Why I ask is that years ago when we were towing a 17ft van with our Statesmen. I had a fitting that went under the tow ball with 2 round slots in it and 2 torsion bars that looked like hockey sticks that fitted into the slots from underneath and held on by clips, the other end of the Torsion bars went to the A frame and when lifted up was help in place by J type pieces connected to either side of the A frame.
To me a similar step up that you could install would do the job. I would think a Caravan Spares shop should be able to advise what is required and how to install.
Peter
Roving-Dutchy said
11:02 AM Dec 3, 2015
Hi Jamjar
Just what is the tow ball weight? If you don't know this, why bother looking at a solution to your problem, it's very easy to ascertain you only need a set of bathroom scales and you have the answer and you then proceed to a solution to your problem. Your tow ball weight should be in the vicinity of 75kgs.
Cheers
David
rockylizard said
11:19 AM Dec 3, 2015
Gday...
Sorry if this may be telling you how to suck eggs, but are you aware of these sites?
There is considerable information for the caravanner within those sites and hopefully these will assist..
I think it is very difficult for explicit, directly pertinent advice to be given on a forum by people who, despite the extent of their knowledge and experience, are unable to actually SEE the vehicle and van.
Additionally, without actual weights of of the van (ATM and Towball weight) and having a look at how the van is loaded, it can become a muddled barrage of 'advice'.
cheers - and happy and safe travelling - John
Jamjar said
11:25 AM Dec 3, 2015
Yes, David, I am now going to wait until I get to Qld and will get it to Suncoast Caravan service, booking ahead, and they can check the towball weight etc.
Meanwhile, I have been speaking to a chap who is towing a 3 ton 5th wheeler, in the park, this morn. He looked at the car and agrees the shocks are fine; also said to try the water in the tank, which I've just filled; I will get the heavy duty springs done.
I leave on Saturday, so will see how it is sitting when I rehitch.
Just looked at tyre size on van and car. Car = 215/60R 16, Van = 185/R 14C. Will be stopping in at Bridgestone shortly, to discuss the size difference and any potential issues, as they are fitting the new tyres on the van on Saturday morn.
J.
Jamjar said
11:28 AM Dec 3, 2015
PeterInSa wrote:
Jamjar, do you have Torsion Bars fitted now?
Why I ask is that years ago when we were towing a 17ft van with our Statesmen. I had a fitting that went under the tow ball with 2 round slots in it and 2 torsion bars that looked like hockey sticks that fitted into the slots from underneath and held on by clips, the other end of the Torsion bars went to the A frame and when lifted up was help in place by J type pieces connected to either side of the A frame.
To me a similar step up that you could install would do the job. I would think a Caravan Spares shop should be able to advise what is required and how to install.
Peter
No, Peter, I haven't. I've just begun looking at the options.
It was a caravan shop that wanted $500 to fit. It was their 'may help' that has me questioning fitting.
J.
Jamjar said
11:39 AM Dec 3, 2015
rockylizard wrote:
Gday...
Sorry if this may be telling you how to suck eggs, but are you aware of these sites?
There is considerable information for the caravanner within those sites and hopefully these will assist..
I think it is very difficult for explicit, directly pertinent advice to be given on a forum by people who, despite the extent of their knowledge and experience, are unable to actually SEE the vehicle and van.
Additionally, without actual weights of of the van (ATM and Towball weight) and having a look at how the van is loaded, it can become a muddled barrage of 'advice'.
cheers - and happy and safe travelling - John
Yes, John I know it is all guesswork. I have looked at the websites and many others. The caravan weights are in my previous post which is on page 2 or 3.
The van load is fine, with hardly anything added to the inside. There is nothing heavy that has been added and nothing to be moved. I even put the microwave - the heaviest item in the van, on the bed at the rear when On the move. No telly etc. It's just light kitchen things for 1 person and clothes.
Yes, I thought mini or intermediate at best and given they a cheap to purchase it is why I see the $500 as excessive. Of course they can charge what they like as there are limited caravan servicing places about.
J.
PeterInSa said
12:54 PM Dec 3, 2015
Hi Jamjar
I was thinking along the lines of the setup below. That you could fit yourself. To me should cover a van with an ATM of around 820Kg
Rather than the chains to hold up the Torsion bars I prefer the J Steeripts they provide some sway restrictions as well.
Talk to Caravans Plus and other Caravan parts suppliers.
Peter
Yes, Peter, that is the one I was thinking of. The problem being that I have a short draw bar and so there are obstructions where the brackets need to go. Therefore angle griding, moving and welding required.
Meanwhile, I've been to Bridgestone to check difference in tyre sizes and it's not a problem. The chap said that heavy duty springs are the go as it's a common problem with Commodore independent suspension.
Also, went to tow bar place and now have a tongue piece which is two inches higher than my current one. I had a ball put on it. So, for $90 it's a cheap way of finding out if my towball is too low.
J.
Jamjar said
09:40 PM Dec 5, 2015
Problem solved.
Filled the water tank, two new tyres on wheels and new spare on rear of van. Now the car and van are level.
I thought it handled well before, but now there is even less bounce of van over uneven road.
J.
revemike said
09:47 AM Dec 6, 2015
Jamjar wrote:
Problem solved.
Filled the water tank, two new tyres on wheels and new spare on rear of van. Now the car and van are level.
I thought it handled well before, but now there is even less bounce of van over uneven road.
J.
good to hear you have it sorted.... well done
Jamjar said
12:14 PM Dec 6, 2015
revemike wrote:
Jamjar wrote:
Problem solved.
Filled the water tank, two new tyres on wheels and new spare on rear of van. Now the car and van are level.
I thought it handled well before, but now there is even less bounce of van over uneven road.
J.
good to hear you have it sorted.... well done
Thank you, Mike.
It was a relief to have an inexpensive fix, to be sure.
Am currently in Sydney and working on the car/caravan hitch problem.
Stopped caravan repairer: WDH 'may' fix problem. We just need to cut away, relocate all on draw bar, to afix. Around $500. Oh, we're booked out until after Xmas.
Pedders: Bring the car in and we'll check the suspension. You may need heavy duty springs, which 'may' help. I ask, 'So if I bring it in for you to look at you can do work needed. 'Probably not, were booked out'.
Tomorrow, I'm going to call the folk here that installed the tow bar on the car to see if they have something that will raise the height of the tow ball.
I do have a water tank question. I have never had water in the tank. I looked under the van, for the first time, today, and I see that the water tank is to the rear of the wheels. If I fill it, would that add weight to the rear end and raise the front?
J.
Assuming your not joking, I note you are a Veteren Member!
Over 40 people have read your posted topic with no replies!
Probably because what you have written suggests you need to find a knowledgeable person in Sydney very quickly to give you good advise once they have seen your rig and setup.
They will be able to see what vehicle you are towing with, the van being towed. Quckly determine if they are suited. They can check weights of the van including the ball weight. If the vehicle is legally capable of towing the van, the vehicles condition can be checked.
I strongly suggest you do nothing until you get good advise that I dont think you can possibly get from a forum unless there is somebody on this forum who has the knowledge and is close to your location. In which case ask with another posted topic. Otherwise may be a caravan tow training school should be able to advise you or a good caravan sales yard should be able to provide you with recommendations or even somebody you can contact.
Good luck
No I'm not joking. My post is an update on an earlier one.
The van and car are suited. Just a little 13' poptop 620 tare, towed buy a Holden Calais. The problem is drop of rear of car - raising front - when caravan attached.
The caravan was attached to the car when I stopped at Camden Caravans and the owner looked at it.
It was pointed out that the van's tires have started to perish, which is interesting as I only got the blue slip in October. So, new tires will be on, on Saturday morning, before I leave for Qld.
J.
-- Edited by Jamjar on Wednesday 2nd of December 2015 08:46:29 PM
Questions I would be asking if I were you are, is the tow vehicle in good condition and serviced. It will need to be capable of carrying the van ball weight plus the weight of anything else that is loaded into the car. You can probably check the ball weight of your van with bathroom scales if they can weight up to around 100kg. Also check the carrying and towing capacity of the car, should be in the handbook.
The van ball weight should be around 10% of the vans GVM, when loaded. The van should have a GVM max weight stated on it along with the tare weight. You should ensure the van is not overloaded.
The car and van should be almost level when connected up. It obviously isn't, so I would guess that either the van is over weight or the ball weight is excessive. Additionally the cars suspension could be tired and not capable of its stated tow and carrying weights.
A WDH will help level the rig but should not be used to compensate for tired suspension or too high a ball weight or overloaded van.
My advise is find an experienced person to check it for you.
Tyre's should be replaced at about 5 years of age even if they have lots of tread and covered few kms. Also ensure you have correct tyre pressures on both the van and car.
Good luck.
Did you by the van first or after, is the axles above or below the springs, what size are the tyres of the car to the van.
There is an option that you could put air bags in the coils to bring the back up or WDH bars to move some weight on the front.
The blue slip well means ?????(nothing) to me, the water tank full might lift the front a bit.
Hope it's helpful to you, i know there is are a lot of more knowable people out there.
Cheers reg.
I have been doing more internet reading since posting this and yes, it has been said that water behind axles should lower ball weight.
The car itself is very well maintained, but shocks and springs haven't been checked as there weren't any signs they needed to be.
Blue slip, Reg, is inspection in NSW needed when registering interstate vehicle and the caravan came to NSW from QLD. I specifically asked the mechanic if the tyres were all good at time of inspection and he said yes, so I didn't get down there to look at them myself.
Tomorrow morn, I'll measure the height of coupling on A frame and height of ball on car. The car's tow bar looks low to me. If this is the case it could be a cheaper fix.
Moonraker, the point of my first post here was to show that even if you seek help of the professionals, you still can't get the work done when needed. In fact I had to get quite angry with the folk at the caravan centre, as they weren't even going to have a look and give me an opinion. The conversation began with, 'did you buy the van from us'? I pointed out that I didn't, but that I had bought all my accessories for my first van and for this one from their onsite shop.
The car and van tow extremely well, but I am very aware that having the front of car raised affects breaking - have been lucky only to have towed on dry road and no sudden braking thus far - and having the back low will not be good for rear suspension and tires over the long term.
Funny isn't it how even if you're prepared to spend the money you can't get the work done.
I'll be in Maroochydore next Tuesday and if what I try here, by Friday, doesn't lift it, I'll call Maroochydore ahead and get something sorted there.
J.
Reg, the tyre sizes I can't recall, but will be discussing this on Saturday when getting the new ones. I don't know whether the axels are above or below the springs, but whichever they are, they won't be changed.
Yes, could have the airbags, but at this stage the WDH won't happen if it will cost $500.
J.
You have to remember it is 3 weeks to Christmas, maybe 2 weeks to school holidays. Many people will be trying to get servicing done on vehicles at the last minute prior to travelling.
Be very careful adding weight (water) to the rear of the van to lift the front until you have got weights of the van AND ball weight. You may create a monster.
The best way to fix the towing problems you are having is with a weight distribution hitch, and $500 to have one fitted seems a fair price to me.
Hi Jamjar,
A little hint they may help after 40 yrs in auto industry ,apart from the previously mentioned items that are you first steps,
Some cars don't have a particularly strong rears ,in fact years ago a particular model actually bent the rear end of the car from under the rear window area back when towing which was seen as the start of the "tow paks for cars",hence this has mostly been sorted over the years .
One of the areas you can work on with the car is a set of quality air shocks fitted by someone that knows what they are doing,ie an Auto Technician (mechanic).No matter how many Wdh's you fit, if the std shocks are weak it will l sag .No don't go to P-----s for the shocks ,buy good ones ,I suggest ARB then you have availability to warranty work nearly any where .
In regard to this and your van ,I have just purchased a Kingswood Kensington ,the previous owner towed it since new with a BF Falcon his only mod to the car was a set of air shocks so that he could control the car and a WDH on the van,this is a 1900kg tare van probably well on or just over towball capacity.I have seen the car on the 21 ft van and its perfectly level. So apply the correct weights to your equation car and van then tweek it to suit a happy and level tow.
Rasty
As another member mentioned it is a bad time of year to be looking at getting work done.
I know Pedders get a bad rap but I live in a village in Central West NSW and Pedders or their authorised dealers are accessible.
J.
Why I ask is that years ago when we were towing a 17ft van with our Statesmen. I had a fitting that went under the tow ball with 2 round slots in it and 2 torsion bars that looked like hockey sticks that fitted into the slots from underneath and held on by clips, the other end of the Torsion bars went to the A frame and when lifted up was help in place by J type pieces connected to either side of the A frame.
To me a similar step up that you could install would do the job. I would think a Caravan Spares shop should be able to advise what is required and how to install.
Peter
Just what is the tow ball weight? If you don't know this, why bother looking at a solution to your problem, it's very easy to ascertain you only need a set of bathroom scales and you have the answer and you then proceed to a solution to your problem. Your tow ball weight should be in the vicinity of 75kgs.
Cheers
David
Gday...
Sorry if this may be telling you how to suck eggs, but are you aware of these sites?
http://www.towingguide.com.au/index.html
http://www.haymanreese.com.au/products/weight-distribution-systems (perhaps you only need the Mini System shown here)
There is considerable information for the caravanner within those sites and hopefully these will assist..
I think it is very difficult for explicit, directly pertinent advice to be given on a forum by people who, despite the extent of their knowledge and experience, are unable to actually SEE the vehicle and van.
Additionally, without actual weights of of the van (ATM and Towball weight) and having a look at how the van is loaded, it can become a muddled barrage of 'advice'.
cheers - and happy and safe travelling - John
Meanwhile, I have been speaking to a chap who is towing a 3 ton 5th wheeler, in the park, this morn. He looked at the car and agrees the shocks are fine; also said to try the water in the tank, which I've just filled; I will get the heavy duty springs done.
I leave on Saturday, so will see how it is sitting when I rehitch.
Just looked at tyre size on van and car. Car = 215/60R 16, Van = 185/R 14C. Will be stopping in at Bridgestone shortly, to discuss the size difference and any potential issues, as they are fitting the new tyres on the van on Saturday morn.
J.
No, Peter, I haven't. I've just begun looking at the options.
It was a caravan shop that wanted $500 to fit. It was their 'may help' that has me questioning fitting.
J.
Yes, John I know it is all guesswork. I have looked at the websites and many others. The caravan weights are in my previous post which is on page 2 or 3.
The van load is fine, with hardly anything added to the inside. There is nothing heavy that has been added and nothing to be moved. I even put the microwave - the heaviest item in the van, on the bed at the rear when On the move. No telly etc. It's just light kitchen things for 1 person and clothes.
Yes, I thought mini or intermediate at best and given they a cheap to purchase it is why I see the $500 as excessive. Of course they can charge what they like as there are limited caravan servicing places about.
J.
I was thinking along the lines of the setup below. That you could fit yourself. To me should cover a van with an ATM of around 820Kg
caravansplus.com.au/catalog/product_info.php
Rather than the chains to hold up the Torsion bars I prefer the J Steeripts they provide some sway restrictions as well.
Talk to Caravans Plus and other Caravan parts suppliers.
Peter
Yes, Peter, that is the one I was thinking of. The problem being that I have a short draw bar and so there are obstructions where the brackets need to go. Therefore angle griding, moving and welding required.
Meanwhile, I've been to Bridgestone to check difference in tyre sizes and it's not a problem. The chap said that heavy duty springs are the go as it's a common problem with Commodore independent suspension.
Also, went to tow bar place and now have a tongue piece which is two inches higher than my current one. I had a ball put on it. So, for $90 it's a cheap way of finding out if my towball is too low.
J.
Filled the water tank, two new tyres on wheels and new spare on rear of van. Now the car and van are level.
I thought it handled well before, but now there is even less bounce of van over uneven road.
J.
good to hear you have it sorted.... well done
Thank you, Mike.
It was a relief to have an inexpensive fix, to be sure.
J.