I have always liked the idea of having the capability to weld whilst travelling for may be small emergency jobs. I saw the Cullinane chap on tv welding using 2 batteries and thought thats pretty cool but I already carry a 2Kv Honda Generator with me. Has anyone out there actually ran a small arc welder powered off the said generator.
gemmybob said
07:43 AM Dec 2, 2015
I'm not an expert mate, but I believe most welders need at least 3 1/2 KVA to run properly. So, back to the batteries I think.
-- Edited by gemmybob on Wednesday 2nd of December 2015 07:43:30 AM
hako said
09:18 AM Dec 2, 2015
Small welders usually have a 15amp plug fitted though it is not unknown for them to be replaced with a 10amp plug (officially no) - this enables them to be used on a 10 amp power outlet usually with no problems as long as the rods used are smaller than 3.2mm. I have done this many times using a Honda power Dunlite 2.4Kva generator.
Problems occur when people weld using welder amp settings over about 80amps like when using 4.0mm rods @140amps....in this instance the welder will be pull 15amps from the 240Vac power outlet and if used on a 10amp power outlet it will overload the switch and burn it out or melt etc.
The welder only pulls from the power outlet the power it needs according to the amperage setting you set on the welder - set under 80amps I reckon you'd be OK (based on my personal experiences)
Good Luck.
Peter_n_Margaret said
09:36 AM Dec 2, 2015
It is unlikely that you will be able to weld from a 2kva generator. We carry one of these in the OKA. www.readywelder.com.au/readywelders/ Brilliant piece of kit!
Over 200A of mig welding power from 2 12V batteries.
Cheers, Peter
-- Edited by Peter_n_Margaret on Wednesday 2nd of December 2015 09:38:42 AM
Aus-Kiwi said
10:02 PM Dec 2, 2015
Start up current will be too high .. Be very hard to get arch to start welding .. Unless very small rod at very low amps..
If welder is adjustable ?
KFT said
10:26 PM Dec 2, 2015
What about an inverter welder
10 amp plug and 2.5-3mm rods DC
must try it and see if it will do the job
Frank
oldtrack123 said
11:07 PM Dec 2, 2015
Hi Most of the small 240V stick welders draw well over 10A They get away with a 10a plug based on the short duty cycle. Typical current with 3mm stick is around 25A = 6KVA[poor power factor]
PeterQ
-
-- Edited by oldtrack123 on Wednesday 2nd of December 2015 11:10:37 PM
Tomcat said
11:18 PM Dec 2, 2015
All good Thank You. Tom
Phil C said
10:55 AM Dec 4, 2015
A 2KVA generator wont deliver the required current IMHO, way too much current. Must remember things like power factor, and the fact that its only apparent power these beasts are rated in so the I x V formula is out the door, from memory its I x V x PF (or phase angle??) Good lord I've forgotten a lot...
Im very disappointed in my 2KVA honda, its only good for small appliances and recharging the house batts on a dull day. Again IMHO not worth the big money I spent on it.
Cheers
03_Troopy said
12:21 PM Dec 4, 2015
Phil, we once used a pair of Honda EU20i's on rotation of 2 weeks each. That is, using one while the other was being serviced. From one generator we had running: a full size domestic fridge, a small tuckerbox freezer, a 68cm old school TV, an Xbox, and a couple of lights at night time. The only time we had a problem was when both fridges kicked in while the TV was running, so we'd turn off the telly reset the genny and connect the fridges one at a time, then all good again.
Sometimes of a night we'd disconnect the fridges and the telly so we could run a 700W microwave for a few minutes. With the microwave we had the eco throttle off and only used it at full power. Being an old style MWO, if you tried lower power settings, the genny didn't like it when the magnetron cycled on and off. But for the rest of the time we had the genny on eco throttle.
I reckon you may be able to run a small inverter welder on the genny at low currents for 2.5mm sticks. I have one and might give it a go later to see. I'll post up the results when I do.
oldtrack123 said
03:49 PM Dec 4, 2015
Hi Troopy
If you set the engine to high speed ,not on eco,you may be JUST able to run them @ min Amps [60] for a short time, perhaps just ONE electrode
Although it would depend on the machine & it's PF
Lower open circuit, harder ac striking ,but lower current draw
PeterQ
-- Edited by oldtrack123 on Friday 4th of December 2015 03:51:40 PM
KFT said
04:08 PM Dec 4, 2015
Hi PeterQ,
from your comments I am getting the impression you are not familiar with the very light weight and compact Inverter DC welders?
wonderful machine, especially good for when you need a welder up on the roof or on a scaffold.
OK, I stand corrected. Having tried very hard to weld at one stage (looked like brail morse code) I gave it up but from what has been said technology has sure surpassed my fading knowledge so I bow to greater knowledge. I think we underestimate what our generators can do, i ran ours on the caravan on a very hot day, the air con struggled when the compressor kicked in but the genny didnt give up.
Guys, have a great Xmas, its been a good year
PhilC
oldtrack123 said
12:52 PM Dec 5, 2015
KFT wrote:
Hi PeterQ,
from your comments I am getting the impression you are not familiar with the very light weight and compact Inverter DC welders?
wonderful machine, especially good for when you need a welder up on the roof or on a scaffold.
I have not used one but I would still expect the kVA demand with a 2.5mm [current range 60 to 80+amps ]electrode to be pushing a HONDA hard .
That would be about the smallest electrode for general use
Not much other than sheet metal that you can Stick weld with under 60A
Shame they do not post max demand
Of course the 10A plug does not mean that 10A is the max demand
It will be interesting to see Troopy's results
My calc are based on 2.5 mm electrode, arc voltage by current plus losses & PF which takes me well over 1.6kva.
PeterQ
-- Edited by oldtrack123 on Saturday 5th of December 2015 01:03:58 PM
landy said
07:45 PM Dec 6, 2015
I have just done a test with my 2kva Honda and an Ozito 80 amp invert-er welder, that i keep for small jobs about the place. I ran a good 2 inch stitch weld between 2 pieces of box section with a 3mm wall, with no problems at all using a 2.5 mm rod. hope this helps. Landy PS welder cost about $120. 00 from Bunnings.
-- Edited by landy on Sunday 6th of December 2015 07:49:06 PM
KFT said
09:49 PM Dec 6, 2015
landy wrote:
I have just done a test with my 2kva Honda and an Ozito 80 amp invert-er welder, that i keep for small jobs about the place. I ran a good 2 inch stitch weld between 2 pieces of box section with a 3mm wall, with no problems at all using a 2.5 mm rod. hope this helps. Landy PS welder cost about $120. 00 from Bunnings.
-- Edited by landy on Sunday 6th of December 2015 07:49:06 PM
G'day Landy
got mine from the same place.
mate how hard was the honda working while you were "arcing"?
Frank
landy said
10:23 PM Dec 6, 2015
Hi frank, It did not seem to bad it took a few scratches with the rod to get it started but as soon as the revs came up on the motor it ran free and smooth. obviously it made the motor work but no worse than the microwave in our van. all round I was very impressed. Landy
KFT said
10:29 PM Dec 6, 2015
Many thanks Landy
Handy to know it does work ok.
Frank
DeBe said
11:19 PM Dec 6, 2015
When welding it would be better not to have the generator running on ECO.
Tomcat said
03:07 AM Dec 7, 2015
landy wrote:
I have just done a test with my 2kva Honda and an Ozito 80 amp invert-er welder, that i keep for small jobs about the place. I ran a good 2 inch stitch weld between 2 pieces of box section with a 3mm wall, with no problems at all using a 2.5 mm rod. hope this helps. Landy PS welder cost about $120. 00 from Bunnings.
-- Edited by landy on Sunday 6th of December 2015 07:49:06 PM
It looks like I have found something to buy with my last fathers day gift voucher from bunnings.
03_Troopy said
09:48 AM Dec 7, 2015
OK, seeing as landy has already tried 3mm, I gave it a go with 5mm just to see how it would go.
Welder is a cheap Chinese "140A" Inverter welder.
Honda Genny set with Eco Throttle OFF
5mm mild steel with a bevel ground on the edge.
I had the welder set at about 75A according to the dial on the front, found it hard to strike an arc as the genny loads down under the current draw. For run 1 I ran about 25mm of bead till I lost the arc (part of the run was cut off to show the cross section).Tried to carry the bead on with a second strike at run 2 but lost the arc again after about 10mm. The bead looked pretty good though.
I dropped the current down to 60A, harder to strike a decent arc, as can be seen on run 3, where the arc was weak and favoured one edge. The bead looked good although slightly more rounded, but I lost the arc after only a short run.
Back to up to 80A ish for run 4, but the genny struggled and it was hard to strike a decent arc again till the genny settled down, and I lost the arc after only a short run.
As can be seen from the section cut through run 1, the weld didn't fully reach the bottom of the bevel which was about 2mm deep.
So, in conclusion, I'd say if you bevelled both sides, and made a pass on each side, the weld would hold. But 5mm is probably out of the limits, especially with the amount of heat required to overcome the heat sink effect of the mass of metal.
As for the Honda EU20i generator being able to supply the required current, I don't think it's really big enough and struggles to supply enough current to make a decent weld for any length of run. I'd say 3KVA would be a much better option. Interestingly, CIG recommend a 5KVA generator for their Weldskill 100 Inverter Welder.
That is pretty much as I expected, with a decent thickness of PLATE.
03_Troopy said
11:01 AM Dec 7, 2015
oldtrack123 wrote:
Hi Troopy
That is pretty much as I expected, with a decent thickness of PLATE.
Yeah, I think possibly 2mm electrodes, if you can get them, and maybe 3mm steel is the limit. I'm glad I checked it out though because I had wondered myself how it would go.
landy said
11:27 AM Dec 7, 2015
Good on ya Troopy shows I must of been near the limits of what the geny can push out. Personally I don't travel with a welder and would use a couple of batteries if I needed an emergency repair, But I am still impressed with what the Honda and the little welder could do and in most cases would get you out of trouble. Landy
Tomcat said
03:01 PM Dec 17, 2015
I just bought a small inverter welder at bunnings i will be trying it out soon. Thanks for all the info guys.
So its about 3-4 hrs after i bought the welder. I tried it out and was pleasantly surprised. Plugged in to the power point no problem using a 2.5mm satin craft and the welder turned up full doing a simple butt weld.
Then I started the 2Kv Honda and plugged into there and halfway through the weld the Geni overloaded. I restarted the Geni and turned the Control on the welder from 80 amp to 55 amp. It then did a 90 deg weld without overloading the Geni. This is the first picture.
Tomorrow I will get some 2mm electrodes and try them with the welder turned up full. All in all it looks promising.
Just another point I noticed the Geni did not ramp up while making the arc but only after the weld was well and truly underway.
I would not have gone out and bought the welder if not for the info from you guys so thanks for that. Tom PS Im a crappy welder.
-- Edited by Tomcat on Thursday 17th of December 2015 06:16:57 PM
Hello all.
I have always liked the idea of having the capability to weld whilst travelling for may be small emergency jobs. I saw the Cullinane chap on tv welding using 2 batteries and thought thats pretty cool but I already carry a 2Kv Honda Generator with me. Has anyone out there actually ran a small arc welder powered off the said generator.
I'm not an expert mate, but I believe most welders need at least 3 1/2 KVA to run properly. So, back to the batteries I think.
-- Edited by gemmybob on Wednesday 2nd of December 2015 07:43:30 AM
Problems occur when people weld using welder amp settings over about 80amps like when using 4.0mm rods @140amps....in this instance the welder will be pull 15amps from the 240Vac power outlet and if used on a 10amp power outlet it will overload the switch and burn it out or melt etc.
The welder only pulls from the power outlet the power it needs according to the amperage setting you set on the welder - set under 80amps I reckon you'd be OK (based on my personal experiences)
Good Luck.
It is unlikely that you will be able to weld from a 2kva generator.
We carry one of these in the OKA. www.readywelder.com.au/readywelders/ Brilliant piece of kit!
Over 200A of mig welding power from 2 12V batteries.
Cheers,
Peter
-- Edited by Peter_n_Margaret on Wednesday 2nd of December 2015 09:38:42 AM
If welder is adjustable ?
10 amp plug and 2.5-3mm rods DC
must try it and see if it will do the job
Frank
Hi
Most of the small 240V stick welders draw well over 10A
They get away with a 10a plug based on the short duty cycle.
Typical current with 3mm stick is around 25A = 6KVA[poor power factor]
PeterQ
-
-- Edited by oldtrack123 on Wednesday 2nd of December 2015 11:10:37 PM
Im very disappointed in my 2KVA honda, its only good for small appliances and recharging the house batts on a dull day. Again IMHO not worth the big money I spent on it.
Cheers
Phil, we once used a pair of Honda EU20i's on rotation of 2 weeks each. That is, using one while the other was being serviced. From one generator we had running: a full size domestic fridge, a small tuckerbox freezer, a 68cm old school TV, an Xbox, and a couple of lights at night time. The only time we had a problem was when both fridges kicked in while the TV was running, so we'd turn off the telly reset the genny and connect the fridges one at a time, then all good again.
Sometimes of a night we'd disconnect the fridges and the telly so we could run a 700W microwave for a few minutes. With the microwave we had the eco throttle off and only used it at full power. Being an old style MWO, if you tried lower power settings, the genny didn't like it when the magnetron cycled on and off. But for the rest of the time we had the genny on eco throttle.
I reckon you may be able to run a small inverter welder on the genny at low currents for 2.5mm sticks. I have one and might give it a go later to see. I'll post up the results when I do.
Hi Troopy
If you set the engine to high speed ,not on eco,you may be JUST able to run them @ min Amps [60] for a short time, perhaps just ONE electrode
Although it would depend on the machine & it's PF
Lower open circuit, harder ac striking ,but lower current draw
PeterQ
-- Edited by oldtrack123 on Friday 4th of December 2015 03:51:40 PM
from your comments I am getting the impression you are not familiar with the very light weight and compact Inverter DC welders?
wonderful machine, especially good for when you need a welder up on the roof or on a scaffold.
details here: www.supercheapauto.com.au/online-store/products/SCA-Welding-Arc-Inverter-140-Amp.aspx
Frank
Guys, have a great Xmas, its been a good year
PhilC
-- Edited by oldtrack123 on Saturday 5th of December 2015 01:03:58 PM
I ran a good 2 inch stitch weld between 2 pieces of box section with a 3mm wall, with no problems at all using a 2.5 mm rod.
hope this helps. Landy
PS welder cost about $120. 00 from Bunnings.
-- Edited by landy on Sunday 6th of December 2015 07:49:06 PM
G'day Landy
got mine from the same place.
mate how hard was the honda working while you were "arcing"?
Frank
Landy
Handy to know it does work ok.
Frank
When welding it would be better not to have the generator running on ECO.
It looks like I have found something to buy with my last fathers day gift voucher from bunnings.
OK, seeing as landy has already tried 3mm, I gave it a go with 5mm just to see how it would go.
Welder is a cheap Chinese "140A" Inverter welder.
Honda Genny set with Eco Throttle OFF
5mm mild steel with a bevel ground on the edge.
I had the welder set at about 75A according to the dial on the front, found it hard to strike an arc as the genny loads down under the current draw. For run 1 I ran about 25mm of bead till I lost the arc (part of the run was cut off to show the cross section).Tried to carry the bead on with a second strike at run 2 but lost the arc again after about 10mm. The bead looked pretty good though.
I dropped the current down to 60A, harder to strike a decent arc, as can be seen on run 3, where the arc was weak and favoured one edge. The bead looked good although slightly more rounded, but I lost the arc after only a short run.
Back to up to 80A ish for run 4, but the genny struggled and it was hard to strike a decent arc again till the genny settled down, and I lost the arc after only a short run.
As can be seen from the section cut through run 1, the weld didn't fully reach the bottom of the bevel which was about 2mm deep.
So, in conclusion, I'd say if you bevelled both sides, and made a pass on each side, the weld would hold. But 5mm is probably out of the limits, especially with the amount of heat required to overcome the heat sink effect of the mass of metal.
As for the Honda EU20i generator being able to supply the required current, I don't think it's really big enough and struggles to supply enough current to make a decent weld for any length of run. I'd say 3KVA would be a much better option. Interestingly, CIG recommend a 5KVA generator for their Weldskill 100 Inverter Welder.
Hi Troopy
That is pretty much as I expected, with a decent thickness of PLATE.
Yeah, I think possibly 2mm electrodes, if you can get them, and maybe 3mm steel is the limit. I'm glad I checked it out though because I had wondered myself how it would go.
a couple of batteries if I needed an emergency repair, But I am still impressed with what the Honda and the little welder could do and in most cases
would get you out of trouble.
Landy
I just bought a small inverter welder at bunnings i will be trying it out soon. Thanks for all the info guys.
So its about 3-4 hrs after i bought the welder. I tried it out and was pleasantly surprised. Plugged in to the power point no problem using a 2.5mm satin craft and the welder turned up full doing a simple butt weld.
Then I started the 2Kv Honda and plugged into there and halfway through the weld the Geni overloaded. I restarted the Geni and turned the Control on the welder from 80 amp to 55 amp. It then did a 90 deg weld without overloading the Geni. This is the first picture.
Tomorrow I will get some 2mm electrodes and try them with the welder turned up full. All in all it looks promising.
Just another point I noticed the Geni did not ramp up while making the arc but only after the weld was well and truly underway.
I would not have gone out and bought the welder if not for the info from you guys so thanks for that. Tom PS Im a crappy welder.
-- Edited by Tomcat on Thursday 17th of December 2015 06:16:57 PM
Ha Ha good one I'll remember that.... : )