I know that there are a lot of old farts on this forum, and this could be of help to a few. I stress that this is not applicable to everyone and you should consult your GP and then a specialist to see if it is applicable to you.
I had Atrial Fibrilation. The research I did on the subject said that up to 25% of people over 75 may have it and not know. That is scary, because the side effects can be devastating....
The heart has 4 chambers - the Left and right Ventricles and the Left and Right Atriums. The Atriums load up the heart to fill the ventricles with blood before the muscles contract and thus pump the blood to the appropriate destinations in the body. In order for the heart muscles to pump the blood, they have to be activated by electrical signals. Located on the R Atrium is what is loosely called the pacemaker. This sends signals out to various parts of the heart and the muscles contract accordingly. It sends signals to the L and R Atriums, and also to the Sino Atrial Node, roughly in the centre of the heart. This causes a slight delay in the signals reaching the ventricular muscles, allowing the ventricles to fill with blood from the Atriums above. The ventricles then contract, sending blood either to the lungs and brain, or around the body.
Atrial Fibrilation (AF) occurs when some of the electrical signals either get scrambled or short-circuit, causing the heart to beat rapidly (often in excess of 200 BPM), or for the ventricular muscles not to contract properly. End result is less than optimal output from the heart, but more importantly, some blood may not actually leave the heart and eventually a clot can form. If this clot does eventually dislodge, it can go directly to the brain, causing a stroke.
I had bouts of AF, which I used to manage by sitting up in a recliner chair and deep breathing. Eventually I would resume normal heart rhythm - after about 4 hours or so. However, it was getting worse and I used to have to go to the local hospital - normally about 2:00 AM, typically on a Sunday morning. Result - an overnight stay in hospital - not nice. I was being treated by a specialist (he prescribed heart medications), but the bouts kept getting worse and more frequent. Eventually, I was referred to an electro-cardiologist, who actually practices in Adelaide, but visits once a month to Canberra - our nearest major centre. The Cardio man listened to my story and then told me the statistics about Ablation. Believe me - that was scary, but at the time it seemed the logical approach. Amongst others, he said that 1 in 2000 ablations could cause complications (I had to hope that he wasn't up to number 1999 already)! Short story made long, I headed off to Adelaide for the procedure.
I arrived in Adelaide on a Sunday, had a Catscan on Monday morning, was admitted to the Flinders Private Hospital Monday afternoon for more tests and Tuesday morning they did the job. Finished by 1:30 pm. They kept me in overnight all plugged into a remote monitor to check that I wasn't acting funny, and Wednesday after lunch I walked out the front door of the hospital with a heart that was beating like it hadn't done for quite a while. Easy as that! The Technician and the specialist explained what they had done to me.
They entered the veins through the groin - both legs. They then fed instruments up the veins and through the Right Atrial valve and into the Right Atrium. They bored a hole through the septum (the membrance dividing the 2 halves) and entered the L Atrium. They went through the valve and then placed a sensor ring against the wall of the incoming vein. They were in another room, looking at a screen. When the sensor detected a place where stray electrical activity was happening, they zapped it with high frequency radio waves and cauterised it until they got flat lines on the screen. They then moved it around and eventually cauterised all of the naughty areas. This part of the procedure took over 3 hours in my case. When finished, they removed their stuff and a small bandaid was placed over the groin areas where they went in. Over the next few days, I had the blackest bruises I have ever seen - each one the size of an A4 sheet of paper, but that was the only (very minor) side effect.
I asked what caused AF. They said that there are a variety of causes, but the common ones are smoking and stimulants such as alcohol and caffeine (tea and coffee). I don't drink any of these and I have never smoked, so I guess that I must be lucky. Apparently endurance type athletes develop AF at a higher rate in their later lives than the standard population. I used to do a lot of cycling, so maybe that had some effect.
I also asked "Why Adelaide?" What was so special about Flinders Cardiac Institute? The answer was that Ablations are done in all the major Capital cities in Oz, but Adelaide was one with a dedicated Ablation team. More importantly, they have a robot which places their tools in a specific spot and it doesn't move. That reduces the chances of accidentally making a wrong move. Also, it gets them away from the X-Ray machine and therefore reduces their epxosure to radiation. Anyway, Adelaide is a nice place to visit...
Six months later, I have stopped all heart medication and have not had the slightest hint of AF again. The difference is amazing. My wife couldn't believe the difference when she arrived to pick me up. Nor can my local GP - even to this day he comments on the difference. I still have respiratory and other problems, but at least the Cardio stuff has gone. Yeah!
If you are interested, Google 'Atrial Fibrilation'. This will bring up pages of stuff. There is an entry near the bottom of the first page, which refers to an ABC Catalyst program. This is worth watching. It explains it fairly well. Now, I stress that this is not applicable to everyone, and a GP and then a specialist consultation is an absolute must before even thinking about it, but if you are having trouble with rapid heartbeat, short of energy etc, check it out. You may avoid having a stroke and that is most certainly desirable.
jonathan said
07:57 AM Nov 27, 2015
A very good presentation Robert .. No doubt there are many out there unaware of the existence of AF.
but .. "old farts" ? .. hehe ! .. where do you fit in .. born in '76 ..
.. jokes aside now, the problems linked with people suffering AF are widespread but "ablations", although an excellent procedure, are not necessarily suitable to all due their individual circumstances.
Each ones condition will be personally addressed to merit that individual attention ..
So .. I agree .. when you next visit with your (or a) doctor, ask about your current health status and how it might relate to Atrial Fibrilation .. very important !
I was first treated for AF nearly 10 years ago at age 55 .. went through the use of Warfrin for a short time before moving on to another prescribed daily medication
which has been most beneficial and my yearly health check keeps me informed ..
iana said
08:06 AM Nov 27, 2015
Yeah I have "AF" and take a variety of tablets each day to help. I'm not too worried about my body, so the "AF" hasn't worried me at all. When I discuss my medication with the GP I say I'm on rat-sack and snail bait. The idea of zapping a couple of nerves in my heart was deemed unsuitable for me, age perhaps. Although they did stop may heart (and re-started it) a couple of times, but the treatment didn't work.
I used to know a guy that came to our workplace to do vehicle repairs, he was big, fit and the job gave him plenty of heavy exercise. One day and that was a day after I had seen him, he was found dead in his home toilet. Everyone said poor so & so, I said what a lucky guy. I have seen a few of my relations have long and agonising deaths, and I know which I would choose.
Once you've done your bit, I fail to see the point in living forever.
erad said
09:56 AM Nov 27, 2015
I did stress that the procedure was not for everyone. Yes - I was taking Xarelto for a while as a precaution against forming a clot and then to the brain. I do recall the first Cardio man I was seeing comment when he did the angiogram prior to prescribing Xarelto "Oh I am so pleased - there are no blockages". I thought at the time 'You're pleased! What about me'1
As for old farts - yes I am one. I turned 71 recently, and was mid 70 when I had the Ablation done. The point of raising this issue was to alert people to the fact that a lot of older people (and I am not one of them) may have AF and not know it. That could lead to a stroke and that is worse than actually dying as far as I am concerned. Simply ask the question of your GP.
As an aside, I had quite a few checks and no AF was noted. It was only when I had a turn that I was aware of the rapid heartbeat. Then it was graphed at the hospital as AF. However, I was unable to do any form of sustained exertion such as gardening. Now, I can do it for hours and indeed I have to to catch up on what was not done when I was crook.
Chicken strangler said
08:21 PM Dec 9, 2015
Hi ya. Just a bit curious, do you remember any of the doctors names who cared for you?
Ralph
chicken strangler
erad said
10:06 PM Dec 11, 2015
Chicken strangler wrote:
Hi ya. Just a bit curious, do you remember any of the doctors names who cared for you?
Ralph
chicken strangler
Ralph:
The guy who did my ablation was Cameron Singleton. Top guy. He works with Andrew McGivigan (?). The procedure normally takes 2.5 hours or so after they set everything up. In my case, they took 3 hours. Apparently this takes a lot of concentration (they don't want to burn a hole through the wall of the heart of the veins), and one guy takes the lead and the other backs him up. Singleton lead for my procedure (on a Tuesday) and apparently on Thursdays McGivigan leads with Singleton as backup. I didn't meet Andrew, but if you google Atrial Fibrilation Singleton, that should get you a link to the FLinders Cardiac Centre page. Further down the google page, you will come across a link to ABC Catalyst program hich describes the procedure in good detail. The case described in that link was done by McGivigan. Incidentally, that case took 5 hours to do the job.
Before I walked out of the hospital, the technician (John was his name) explained what they did to me, and showed me some animations of the procedure. I asked him 'Why Adelaide?' Answer " We have a robot to do the work". My comment 'With a robot, nothing can go wrong can go wrong can go wrong'. His reply was that the robot was closely controlled by a human, and when the probe was put in a certain location, it stayed exactly there, whereas with a direct human control, slight movements can occur. Operating a robot also means that the operators can get away from the Xray machine and that helps them avoid excess radiation. I guess when dealing with something like this, you need the best you can get. Singleton also said that they have a dedicated team who do this type of work all the time. Ablations can be done in any capital city these days, although not with a robot.
Interstingly, my wife is being treated for cancer. Her oncologist in Canberra said that for the time being she need not have any more Chemo so we could get away for a holiday. "Some Holiday" says my wife. When queried further, she explained that we were going to Adelaide for an Ablation procedure on me. He immediately replied that Adelaide was THE centre for Cardiac work, so that gave me some reassurance that I was doing to the best place. Believe me - when they start talking about thumping around inside your heart, you start to get worried, but at the time it was the obvious choice. And it turned out to be a good choice - my heart has not skipped a beat or gone into AF once since then.
If you are interested, look up Flinders Cardiac Centre. They have a listing of all their key staff. I know when I saw the experience behind the front men, if anything went wrong whilst they were doing it, I reckoned they had good backup to get me out of trouble.
Phil C said
01:17 PM Dec 15, 2015
You may have met my daughter there as well. She is a Phd scientist doing research into all heart conditions. She may have performed an echo on you to start. Her name is Dr Rebecca Perry. Great news on the positive recovery.
Agree, Adelaide is a top spot.
Cheers
brickies said
03:08 PM Dec 15, 2015
On the tv news on ch 9 last night , They talking about a break through with treating AF by using a clip , They have done the first one in Australia in a sydney Hospital , But have been doing it overseas for sometime
erad said
09:34 AM Jan 19, 2016
Last night on the tele program RPA, they had a bloke who had a Ablation done by RPA team using freezing techniques. Same result, about the same time taken as well. The froze the ablated areas down to -40 Deg C, so it was very cold. They had to repeat on one of the veins because there was still some residual electrical activity.
-- Edited by erad on Tuesday 19th of January 2016 09:35:52 AM
I know that there are a lot of old farts on this forum, and this could be of help to a few. I stress that this is not applicable to everyone and you should consult your GP and then a specialist to see if it is applicable to you.
I had Atrial Fibrilation. The research I did on the subject said that up to 25% of people over 75 may have it and not know. That is scary, because the side effects can be devastating....
The heart has 4 chambers - the Left and right Ventricles and the Left and Right Atriums. The Atriums load up the heart to fill the ventricles with blood before the muscles contract and thus pump the blood to the appropriate destinations in the body. In order for the heart muscles to pump the blood, they have to be activated by electrical signals. Located on the R Atrium is what is loosely called the pacemaker. This sends signals out to various parts of the heart and the muscles contract accordingly. It sends signals to the L and R Atriums, and also to the Sino Atrial Node, roughly in the centre of the heart. This causes a slight delay in the signals reaching the ventricular muscles, allowing the ventricles to fill with blood from the Atriums above. The ventricles then contract, sending blood either to the lungs and brain, or around the body.
Atrial Fibrilation (AF) occurs when some of the electrical signals either get scrambled or short-circuit, causing the heart to beat rapidly (often in excess of 200 BPM), or for the ventricular muscles not to contract properly. End result is less than optimal output from the heart, but more importantly, some blood may not actually leave the heart and eventually a clot can form. If this clot does eventually dislodge, it can go directly to the brain, causing a stroke.
I had bouts of AF, which I used to manage by sitting up in a recliner chair and deep breathing. Eventually I would resume normal heart rhythm - after about 4 hours or so. However, it was getting worse and I used to have to go to the local hospital - normally about 2:00 AM, typically on a Sunday morning. Result - an overnight stay in hospital - not nice. I was being treated by a specialist (he prescribed heart medications), but the bouts kept getting worse and more frequent. Eventually, I was referred to an electro-cardiologist, who actually practices in Adelaide, but visits once a month to Canberra - our nearest major centre. The Cardio man listened to my story and then told me the statistics about Ablation. Believe me - that was scary, but at the time it seemed the logical approach. Amongst others, he said that 1 in 2000 ablations could cause complications (I had to hope that he wasn't up to number 1999 already)! Short story made long, I headed off to Adelaide for the procedure.
I arrived in Adelaide on a Sunday, had a Catscan on Monday morning, was admitted to the Flinders Private Hospital Monday afternoon for more tests and Tuesday morning they did the job. Finished by 1:30 pm. They kept me in overnight all plugged into a remote monitor to check that I wasn't acting funny, and Wednesday after lunch I walked out the front door of the hospital with a heart that was beating like it hadn't done for quite a while. Easy as that! The Technician and the specialist explained what they had done to me.
They entered the veins through the groin - both legs. They then fed instruments up the veins and through the Right Atrial valve and into the Right Atrium. They bored a hole through the septum (the membrance dividing the 2 halves) and entered the L Atrium. They went through the valve and then placed a sensor ring against the wall of the incoming vein. They were in another room, looking at a screen. When the sensor detected a place where stray electrical activity was happening, they zapped it with high frequency radio waves and cauterised it until they got flat lines on the screen. They then moved it around and eventually cauterised all of the naughty areas. This part of the procedure took over 3 hours in my case. When finished, they removed their stuff and a small bandaid was placed over the groin areas where they went in. Over the next few days, I had the blackest bruises I have ever seen - each one the size of an A4 sheet of paper, but that was the only (very minor) side effect.
I asked what caused AF. They said that there are a variety of causes, but the common ones are smoking and stimulants such as alcohol and caffeine (tea and coffee). I don't drink any of these and I have never smoked, so I guess that I must be lucky. Apparently endurance type athletes develop AF at a higher rate in their later lives than the standard population. I used to do a lot of cycling, so maybe that had some effect.
I also asked "Why Adelaide?" What was so special about Flinders Cardiac Institute? The answer was that Ablations are done in all the major Capital cities in Oz, but Adelaide was one with a dedicated Ablation team. More importantly, they have a robot which places their tools in a specific spot and it doesn't move. That reduces the chances of accidentally making a wrong move. Also, it gets them away from the X-Ray machine and therefore reduces their epxosure to radiation. Anyway, Adelaide is a nice place to visit...
Six months later, I have stopped all heart medication and have not had the slightest hint of AF again. The difference is amazing. My wife couldn't believe the difference when she arrived to pick me up. Nor can my local GP - even to this day he comments on the difference. I still have respiratory and other problems, but at least the Cardio stuff has gone. Yeah!
If you are interested, Google 'Atrial Fibrilation'. This will bring up pages of stuff. There is an entry near the bottom of the first page, which refers to an ABC Catalyst program. This is worth watching. It explains it fairly well. Now, I stress that this is not applicable to everyone, and a GP and then a specialist consultation is an absolute must before even thinking about it, but if you are having trouble with rapid heartbeat, short of energy etc, check it out. You may avoid having a stroke and that is most certainly desirable.
A very good presentation Robert .. No doubt there are many out there unaware of the existence of AF.
but .. "old farts" ? .. hehe ! .. where do you fit in .. born in '76 ..
.. jokes aside now, the problems linked with people suffering AF are widespread but "ablations", although an excellent procedure, are not necessarily suitable to all due their individual circumstances.
Each ones condition will be personally addressed to merit that individual attention ..
So .. I agree .. when you next visit with your (or a) doctor, ask about your current health status and how it might relate to Atrial Fibrilation .. very important !
I was first treated for AF nearly 10 years ago at age 55 .. went through the use of Warfrin for a short time before moving on to another prescribed daily medication
which has been most beneficial and my yearly health check keeps me informed ..
I used to know a guy that came to our workplace to do vehicle repairs, he was big, fit and the job gave him plenty of heavy exercise. One day and that was a day after I had seen him, he was found dead in his home toilet. Everyone said poor so & so, I said what a lucky guy. I have seen a few of my relations have long and agonising deaths, and I know which I would choose.
Once you've done your bit, I fail to see the point in living forever.
I did stress that the procedure was not for everyone. Yes - I was taking Xarelto for a while as a precaution against forming a clot and then to the brain. I do recall the first Cardio man I was seeing comment when he did the angiogram prior to prescribing Xarelto "Oh I am so pleased - there are no blockages". I thought at the time 'You're pleased! What about me'1
As for old farts - yes I am one. I turned 71 recently, and was mid 70 when I had the Ablation done. The point of raising this issue was to alert people to the fact that a lot of older people (and I am not one of them) may have AF and not know it. That could lead to a stroke and that is worse than actually dying as far as I am concerned. Simply ask the question of your GP.
As an aside, I had quite a few checks and no AF was noted. It was only when I had a turn that I was aware of the rapid heartbeat. Then it was graphed at the hospital as AF. However, I was unable to do any form of sustained exertion such as gardening. Now, I can do it for hours and indeed I have to to catch up on what was not done when I was crook.
Hi ya. Just a bit curious, do you remember any of the doctors names who cared for you?
Ralph
chicken strangler
Agree, Adelaide is a top spot.
Cheers
Last night on the tele program RPA, they had a bloke who had a Ablation done by RPA team using freezing techniques. Same result, about the same time taken as well. The froze the ablated areas down to -40 Deg C, so it was very cold. They had to repeat on one of the veins because there was still some residual electrical activity.
-- Edited by erad on Tuesday 19th of January 2016 09:35:52 AM