Just brought a 24ft van, and am wondering how to level it. Two jacking points on the chassis behind the wheels, but they are 500mm off the ground. The supplier has supplied a modified scissor type jack indicated by the salesman as inadequate. Dual wheels each side. I'm just wondering what others do to level and stabilize their vans?
KFT said
10:24 PM Nov 13, 2015
G'day Iana
I use plastic ramps and sometimes timber blocks to level side to side. Fore and aft I use my Trailamate jockey jack and put the corner stabilisers down.
I try to get the van as level as possible depending on the site and then decide if I need to add the ramps or blocks.
frank
iana said
10:40 PM Nov 13, 2015
Going on the fact I will have to have a jack capable of jacking one side of the van off the ground (to change a tyre), I was thinking about getting two axle stands, and cutting the heads off, welding a plate onto each that allows me to bolt a jack onto each. Hence I end up with a jack bolted to a stand. This would allow me to level East West and then use the jockey wheel for north south. Then lowering the corner stabilisers to add the last bit of stability. I'll have enough trouble backing this thing into a site let alone also leveling it with ramps.
Second hand axle stands $40 a pair, the jacks $70 each second hand. Looking at Toyota screw type jacks.
Sound feasible ?
-- Edited by iana on Friday 13th of November 2015 10:40:43 PM
New Wanderers said
10:40 PM Nov 13, 2015
Our sequence is to level the van using the plastic levellers with the aid of a sprit level, un hitch the van using the trail mate jack, then wind down the stabilisation jacks, this works for us.
The Phantom said
11:12 PM Nov 13, 2015
iana wrote:
Going on the fact I will have to have a jack capable of jacking one side of the van off the ground (to change a tyre), I was thinking about getting two axle stands, and cutting the heads off, welding a plate onto each that allows me to bolt a jack onto each. Hence I end up with a jack bolted to a stand. This would allow me to level East West and then use the jockey wheel for north south. Then lowering the corner stabilisers to add the last bit of stability. I'll have enough trouble backing this thing into a site let alone also leveling it with ramps.
Second hand axle stands $40 a pair, the jacks $70 each second hand. Looking at Toyota screw type jacks.
Sound feasible ?
-- Edited by iana on Friday 13th of November 2015 10:40:43 PM
Ian, I suspect you are going overboard a bit.If you think through what you are proposing, it will take some considerable time to level the van at the end of the day. You should be cracking a coldie, not messing around underneath.
I use the plastic ramp, as mentioned previously. You only need to run one wheel (usually the front one of the tandem) until you are roughly level. There is no need to be perfectly level. I lay my spirit level across the drawbar at a convenient location and determine the low side. I then place the ramp and get my wife to check the spirit level as I drive slowly forward. I stop when she yells. I then place chocks and engage the handbrake on the van to stop it rolling off. Disconnect the van from the ute and level N/S with the jockey wheel, as you mentioned. Lower the stabiliser jacks and open a beer.
The process takes, roughly, 15 minutes and all done.
The Phantom
Possum3 said
12:29 AM Nov 14, 2015
I have fitted a small bubble "T" level to front draw bar (Super Cheap $4.90) makes it easy for Child-Bride to advise when to stop, go forward, back, etc. - I use polypropylene (plastic) ramps and Timber Dunnage blocks to level East-West, then the Jockey wheel to level front to back. Only once in many years have I had to utilise Screw-jack to raise one side, because of no leeway to back up on ramps and blocks. (Sapphire Qld next to Botanical Gardens.
Dougwe said
06:05 AM Nov 14, 2015
Ian, I do the same as others have mentioned. I reverse onto the ramps and usually put the back wheel of the tandem up as even when I take the black bit off my plastic ramp the red bit won't fit between the wheels. I am talking about those red ramps with a loose black section made for tandem wheels.
I also agree that you should be sitting down enjoying your location instead of stuffing around with jacks etc. Minimum fuss is the key to enjoying the playground.
-- Edited by Dougwe on Saturday 14th of November 2015 06:06:51 AM
sandsmere said
07:42 AM Nov 14, 2015
Plastic ramps, chocks, spirit level, Trailormate.
All over in 5 minutes.
rockylizard said
07:43 AM Nov 14, 2015
Gday...
Like everyone has said, Ian, it is a simple thing to level the van if you end up on a site that is not very level.
These are the sort of ramps they have mentioned.
Simply place the "thin edge of the wedge" against the wheel on the side that needs to be raised, and reverse (or drive) the wheel up onto the ramp as far as required.
Takes less than a minute. Like The Ghost Who Walks said, then you will have time to open that coldie
There's even a video on how to use them on that website
Cheers - and it is always good to stay on the level mate - John
-- Edited by rockylizard on Saturday 14th of November 2015 07:46:51 AM
deverall11 said
11:43 AM Nov 14, 2015
iana wrote:
Going on the fact I will have to have a jack capable of jacking one side of the van off the ground (to change a tyre), I was thinking about getting two axle stands, and cutting the heads off, welding a plate onto each that allows me to bolt a jack onto each. Hence I end up with a jack bolted to a stand. This would allow me to level East West and then use the jockey wheel for north south. Then lowering the corner stabilisers to add the last bit of stability. I'll have enough trouble backing this thing into a site let alone also leveling it with ramps.
Second hand axle stands $40 a pair, the jacks $70 each second hand. Looking at Toyota screw type jacks.
Sound feasible ?
-- Edited by iana on Friday 13th of November 2015 10:40:43 PM
Way too much work. You will get jack of it after a few times. We do as others have said, use plastic ramps with a spirit level.
Larry
iana said
08:43 PM Nov 14, 2015
Thanks guys, I will give it ago.
Hylife said
09:15 PM Nov 14, 2015
Used a tape measure to measure the height (ground to chassis fore and aft to level the van) in my garage when I purchased it.
Then purchased a cheapo T shape spirit level (yes, Supercheap Auto)
Liquid nail it to the draw bar.
Wind up or down jockey wheel to fore and aft.
Small foldup spade to dig small hole ahead of or behind wheels for left and right. (Yes "on the cheap" van park owners, if you can't get your sites level I have no respect for your grass/gravel/dirt/etc)
-- Edited by Hylife on Saturday 14th of November 2015 09:16:19 PM
Cupie said
11:53 AM Nov 15, 2015
My approach is similar to Possum3's.
ie. T level fixed to the A frame, initially calibrated against a spirit level on the floor near the fridge.
I reverse just past my preferred final van resting spot & if not level I place a single plastic ramp on the spot & slowly move forward to pull a wheel onto the ramp. SWMBO tells me when to stop. I have on occasion used both ramps.
Sometimes the preferred wheel spot has a slight depression from repeated use, so I top that up with a bit of soil & tamp it down.
Check level .. if OK fit chock, if too high roll back off the ramp a bit & chock, if it's not high enough roll back off the ramp & put the ramp on a lump of wood & repeat the procedure.
I don't get too carried away with 100% accuracy.
Finish with the jockey wheel for NS level. If the jockey wheel won't go down far enough to get it level I wind it up & rest the A frame on an axle stand while I dig out a hole to lower the jockey wheel, remove the stand & try again.
The corner steadies, do as their name suggests & just steady the van. They are never to be used to help level the van. I tried to do that on one of my first trips a decade or more ago & ended up breaking the phosphor bronze pin in the winding mechanism. Fortunately a mechanic across the road had a spare in his bits bin & loaned me a drift & hammer to fix the problem. It was a Sunday in a small country village & he just happened to be in working on a couple of quad bikes for local property owners. (no charge, he wouldn't take payment .. but I left a six pack for his trouble when I returned the hammer & drift)
03_Troopy said
12:06 PM Nov 15, 2015
As well as all the above comments, a jack welded on top of a jack stand is dangerous. Jack stands are usually barely stable at their maximum height. Extending the max height will make them unstable at the least, and deadly at the worst. Even if you don't go beyond the maximum overall height of the jack stand, any inherent play in the jack mechanism will be magnified by the extension.
Edit:
Another thing to consider is that jack stands are meant to be used under a reasonably level vehicle. When you have a jack attached to the top of the stand, you can have a situation where the tilt of the van while jacking, will put excessive lateral loading on the stand, causing it to fall sideways.
-- Edited by 03_Troopy on Sunday 15th of November 2015 12:11:34 PM
iana said
09:49 PM Nov 15, 2015
Thanks Troopy, taking your concerns into consideration, I carefully jacked the low side of the van up. However I got no where near being level, the lawn slops away a bit. A trolley jack sinking into the ground and three half bricks is much safer.
And if it's really steep, you could always dig a hole on the high side to drop the wheels in, just remember to fill it in when you leave
mjt57 said
11:17 AM Nov 16, 2015
Why haven't the van manufacturers designed the stabilisation jacks to take the weight of the van? To me they sounds the ideal way of levelling it.
As for spirit levels we have a trailer here with a bubble level on the drawbar. When the bubble is in the centre then it's level from all aspects. Wonder why these things aren't standard on vans, either.
KFT said
11:50 AM Nov 16, 2015
mjt57 wrote:
Why haven't the van manufacturers designed the stabilisation jacks to take the weight of the van? To me they sounds the ideal way of levelling it.
If you wish to spend some money you can get hydraulic systems that will automatically level the rig. They are often seen on high end motorhomes.
frank
iana said
07:51 AM Nov 17, 2015
mjt57 wrote:
Why haven't the van manufacturers designed the stabilisation jacks to take the weight of the van? To me they sounds the ideal way of levelling it.
This is the part that has me thinking, when picking up both our caravans, new, the salesmen made a point of saying that the stabilizers are just for that, and not for taking the weight of the van.
So if the van is sitting on its own suspension, and the stabilizers are down, won't the suspension drop as more persons enter the van, and the weight is then transferred to the stabilizers?
Without hard jacking the chassis, how do you stop that from happening?
PeterD said
09:57 PM Nov 17, 2015
mjt57 wrote:
Why haven't the van manufacturers designed the stabilisation jacks to take the weight of the van? To me they sounds the ideal way of levelling it.
Because caravan chassis are too flexible to have the van supported primarily in the middle some times and then at the ends on other occasions. The one time principle of Caboolture Caravan Repairs (cabcar) used to frequent one of the other forums. He gave specific warnings about supporting vans by their ends. It does not take much to stress the body of a van by lifting the van at the ends.
I have noticed this edffect in the three side door vans I have had (and one of those was only a 15' van.) In each case I marked a line across from the door to the door jamb near the lock. If I apply too much pressure on the rear steadies the movement in the door shifts the door 2 - 3 mm. The 15' van had the old lock with the toothed wheel striker. The plate on the door jamb had to be very carefully positioned so the door section would not foul the other section when closing the door.
If a heavy handed extension of the rear steadies can flex the chassis that much, just imagine how much the chassis will flex when supported at the ends. I'm sure the continual flexing the body with the chassis flex would do to the sealing of the van. It's hard enough keeping the body waterproof without adding that to your woes.
jomac74 said
10:05 PM Nov 17, 2015
I enquired about fitting q hydraulic system to my sunliner RV quote $8000,oo I use chocks, works well
-- Edited by jomac74 on Tuesday 17th of November 2015 10:05:48 PM
jomac74 said
10:07 PM Nov 17, 2015
Iana - I think using bricks like that is very dangerous and risking a serious accident - get some chocks, lot less worry
-- Edited by jomac74 on Tuesday 17th of November 2015 10:08:55 PM
katenal said
08:55 AM Nov 24, 2015
We use a T level. To set that up; Sit the van somewhere fairly flat and start adjusting van levels with whatever lifting/jacking equipment you have available. Place a spirit level on the floor inside the van and continue to make horizontal adjustments left to right and front to back until you are satisfied you have a level van. the place a generous amount of silicon where you want your T level then bed the T level into the silicon ensuring the bubbles show "level". let the silicon set. When trying to level at a site we use 2 piece plastic ramps, quick easy cheap and safe and if one of these isn't enough we move the van. We do have a shovel if really required but most use that to bury things and the jack only comes out for flat tyre or getting a bit more movement if the jockey wheel is too long or short.
iana said
08:04 PM Nov 24, 2015
Nobody has commented on my last question.
This is the part that has me thinking, when picking up both our caravans, new, the salesmen made a point of saying that the stabilizers are just for that, and not for taking the weight of the van.
So if the van is sitting on its own suspension, and the stabilizers are down, won't the suspension drop as more persons enter the van, and the weight is then transferred to the stabilizers?
Without hard jacking the chassis, how do you stop that from happening?
And Guys n Girls I am not that stupid, I put the picture of the trolley jack in to tease a few people.
Cupie said
12:04 AM Nov 25, 2015
I would have thought that only a percentage of the weight of the people would be taken by the adjacent end stabilizers, depending where they are standing in the van. Of course the extra weight is shared with the van's wheels as well.
Where are all the engineers hiding? I'm sure that they could give a complex reasoned response.
PeterD said
02:34 PM Nov 26, 2015
iana wrote:
So if the van is sitting on its own suspension, and the stabilizers are down, won't the suspension drop as more persons enter the van, and the weight is then transferred to the stabilizers?
Without hard jacking the chassis, how do you stop that from happening?
As I said above and you are alluding to the fact that van chassis are flexible. When the stabilisers are down in place there will a little flexing of the van down in the middle. However even with a few people in the van it will be far less than if you attempt to level the van side to side with the stabilisers. There will be far less damaging stress in this case than there will be by lifting the side with the stabilisers. If you wish to minimise this I suggest you install another pair of stabilisers in the middle.
Oh and by the way, we are not Yanks, they are stabilisers. Australian dictionaries are available for most browsers, install one of these and it will assist with your spelling.
iana said
05:27 PM Nov 26, 2015
Thankyou for the advice Mr D. Perhaps you should look before you leap!
Using an s or a z in the word stabiliser/stabilizer is pretty well optional nowadays, regardless of your choice everyone will know exactly what you mean.
iana said
08:59 PM Dec 1, 2015
Look guys I have taken everything on board on what has been posted, but I think I will continue along the path of setting up a jack. My reasons are:-
1/ The van has independent suspension, and the space between the wheels (tandem) is less than with rocker type springs and axles. I may be able to fit the section wedge in there but:-
2/ I really don't want the wife in amongst the wheels fiddling with wedges and chocks while I'm backing. I can tell you now by the time I get this beast positioned, I will be very warm, so the last thing I will need is extra distractions.
3/ I need a suitable jack one at least for doing wheel changes anyway.
4/ What I didn't mention is that the wife gets migraine headaches, and if she is suffering one of those, and I dare to cause any movement in the van, I get my head chewed off.
5/ I really don't think it will take longer to set up.
So thanks for the comments, just looking at the views of the thread, many people wanted info on this subject.
Just brought a 24ft van, and am wondering how to level it. Two jacking points on the chassis behind the wheels, but they are 500mm off the ground. The supplier has supplied a modified scissor type jack indicated by the salesman as inadequate. Dual wheels each side. I'm just wondering what others do to level and stabilize their vans?
I use plastic ramps and sometimes timber blocks to level side to side. Fore and aft I use my Trailamate jockey jack and put the corner stabilisers down.
I try to get the van as level as possible depending on the site and then decide if I need to add the ramps or blocks.
frank
Going on the fact I will have to have a jack capable of jacking one side of the van off the ground (to change a tyre), I was thinking about getting two axle stands, and cutting the heads off, welding a plate onto each that allows me to bolt a jack onto each. Hence I end up with a jack bolted to a stand. This would allow me to level East West and then use the jockey wheel for north south. Then lowering the corner stabilisers to add the last bit of stability.
I'll have enough trouble backing this thing into a site let alone also leveling it with ramps.
Second hand axle stands $40 a pair, the jacks $70 each second hand. Looking at Toyota screw type jacks.
Sound feasible ?
-- Edited by iana on Friday 13th of November 2015 10:40:43 PM
Ian, I suspect you are going overboard a bit.If you think through what you are proposing, it will take some considerable time to level the van at the end of the day. You should be cracking a coldie, not messing around underneath.
I use the plastic ramp, as mentioned previously. You only need to run one wheel (usually the front one of the tandem) until you are roughly level. There is no need to be perfectly level. I lay my spirit level across the drawbar at a convenient location and determine the low side. I then place the ramp and get my wife to check the spirit level as I drive slowly forward. I stop when she yells. I then place chocks and engage the handbrake on the van to stop it rolling off. Disconnect the van from the ute and level N/S with the jockey wheel, as you mentioned. Lower the stabiliser jacks and open a beer.
The process takes, roughly, 15 minutes and all done.
The Phantom
Ian, I do the same as others have mentioned. I reverse onto the ramps and usually put the back wheel of the tandem up as even when I take the black bit off my plastic ramp the red bit won't fit between the wheels. I am talking about those red ramps with a loose black section made for tandem wheels.
I also agree that you should be sitting down enjoying your location instead of stuffing around with jacks etc. Minimum fuss is the key to enjoying the playground.
-- Edited by Dougwe on Saturday 14th of November 2015 06:06:51 AM
Plastic ramps, chocks, spirit level, Trailormate.
All over in 5 minutes.
Gday...
Like everyone has said, Ian, it is a simple thing to level the van if you end up on a site that is not very level.
These are the sort of ramps they have mentioned.
Simply place the "thin edge of the wedge" against the wheel on the side that needs to be raised, and reverse (or drive) the wheel up onto the ramp as far as required.
Takes less than a minute. Like The Ghost Who Walks said, then you will have time to open that coldie
They aren't very expensive and readily available - http://caravansplus.com.au/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=9457
There's even a video on how to use them on that website
Cheers - and it is always good to stay on the level mate
- John
-- Edited by rockylizard on Saturday 14th of November 2015 07:46:51 AM
Way too much work. You will get jack of it after a few times. We do as others have said, use plastic ramps with a spirit level.
Larry
Used a tape measure to measure the height (ground to chassis fore and aft to level the van) in my garage when I purchased it.
Then purchased a cheapo T shape spirit level (yes, Supercheap Auto)
Liquid nail it to the draw bar.
Wind up or down jockey wheel to fore and aft.
Small foldup spade to dig small hole ahead of or behind wheels for left and right.
(Yes "on the cheap" van park owners, if you can't get your sites level I have no respect for your grass/gravel/dirt/etc)
-- Edited by Hylife on Saturday 14th of November 2015 09:16:19 PM
My approach is similar to Possum3's.
ie. T level fixed to the A frame, initially calibrated against a spirit level on the floor near the fridge.
I reverse just past my preferred final van resting spot & if not level I place a single plastic ramp on the spot & slowly move forward to pull a wheel onto the ramp. SWMBO tells me when to stop. I have on occasion used both ramps.
Sometimes the preferred wheel spot has a slight depression from repeated use, so I top that up with a bit of soil & tamp it down.
Check level .. if OK fit chock, if too high roll back off the ramp a bit & chock, if it's not high enough roll back off the ramp & put the ramp on a lump of wood & repeat the procedure.
I don't get too carried away with 100% accuracy.
Finish with the jockey wheel for NS level. If the jockey wheel won't go down far enough to get it level I wind it up & rest the A frame on an axle stand while I dig out a hole to lower the jockey wheel, remove the stand & try again.
The corner steadies, do as their name suggests & just steady the van. They are never to be used to help level the van. I tried to do that on one of my first trips a decade or more ago & ended up breaking the phosphor bronze pin in the winding mechanism. Fortunately a mechanic across the road had a spare in his bits bin & loaned me a drift & hammer to fix the problem. It was a Sunday in a small country village & he just happened to be in working on a couple of quad bikes for local property owners. (no charge, he wouldn't take payment .. but I left a six pack for his trouble when I returned the hammer & drift)
As well as all the above comments, a jack welded on top of a jack stand is dangerous. Jack stands are usually barely stable at their maximum height. Extending the max height will make them unstable at the least, and deadly at the worst. Even if you don't go beyond the maximum overall height of the jack stand, any inherent play in the jack mechanism will be magnified by the extension.
Edit:
Another thing to consider is that jack stands are meant to be used under a reasonably level vehicle. When you have a jack attached to the top of the stand, you can have a situation where the tilt of the van while jacking, will put excessive lateral loading on the stand, causing it to fall sideways.
-- Edited by 03_Troopy on Sunday 15th of November 2015 12:11:34 PM
As for spirit levels we have a trailer here with a bubble level on the drawbar. When the bubble is in the centre then it's level from all aspects. Wonder why these things aren't standard on vans, either.
If you wish to spend some money you can get hydraulic systems that will automatically level the rig. They are often seen on high end motorhomes.
frank
This is the part that has me thinking, when picking up both our caravans, new, the salesmen made a point of saying that the stabilizers are just for that, and not for taking the weight of the van.
So if the van is sitting on its own suspension, and the stabilizers are down, won't the suspension drop as more persons enter the van, and the weight is then transferred to the stabilizers?
Without hard jacking the chassis, how do you stop that from happening?
Because caravan chassis are too flexible to have the van supported primarily in the middle some times and then at the ends on other occasions. The one time principle of Caboolture Caravan Repairs (cabcar) used to frequent one of the other forums. He gave specific warnings about supporting vans by their ends. It does not take much to stress the body of a van by lifting the van at the ends.
I have noticed this edffect in the three side door vans I have had (and one of those was only a 15' van.) In each case I marked a line across from the door to the door jamb near the lock. If I apply too much pressure on the rear steadies the movement in the door shifts the door 2 - 3 mm. The 15' van had the old lock with the toothed wheel striker. The plate on the door jamb had to be very carefully positioned so the door section would not foul the other section when closing the door.
If a heavy handed extension of the rear steadies can flex the chassis that much, just imagine how much the chassis will flex when supported at the ends. I'm sure the continual flexing the body with the chassis flex would do to the sealing of the van. It's hard enough keeping the body waterproof without adding that to your woes.
I enquired about fitting q hydraulic system to my sunliner RV quote $8000,oo I use chocks, works well
-- Edited by jomac74 on Tuesday 17th of November 2015 10:05:48 PM
Iana - I think using bricks like that is very dangerous and risking a serious accident - get some chocks, lot less worry
-- Edited by jomac74 on Tuesday 17th of November 2015 10:08:55 PM
This is the part that has me thinking, when picking up both our caravans, new, the salesmen made a point of saying that the stabilizers are just for that, and not for taking the weight of the van.
So if the van is sitting on its own suspension, and the stabilizers are down, won't the suspension drop as more persons enter the van, and the weight is then transferred to the stabilizers?
Without hard jacking the chassis, how do you stop that from happening?
And Guys n Girls I am not that stupid, I put the picture of the trolley jack in to tease a few people.
I would have thought that only a percentage of the weight of the people would be taken by the adjacent end stabilizers, depending where they are standing in the van. Of course the extra weight is shared with the van's wheels as well.
Where are all the engineers hiding? I'm sure that they could give a complex reasoned response.
As I said above and you are alluding to the fact that van chassis are flexible. When the stabilisers are down in place there will a little flexing of the van down in the middle. However even with a few people in the van it will be far less than if you attempt to level the van side to side with the stabilisers. There will be far less damaging stress in this case than there will be by lifting the side with the stabilisers. If you wish to minimise this I suggest you install another pair of stabilisers in the middle.
Oh and by the way, we are not Yanks, they are stabilisers. Australian dictionaries are available for most browsers, install one of these and it will assist with your spelling.
Thankyou for the advice Mr D. Perhaps you should look before you leap!
Using an s or a z in the word stabiliser/stabilizer is pretty well optional nowadays, regardless of your choice everyone will know exactly what you mean.
1/ The van has independent suspension, and the space between the wheels (tandem) is less than with rocker type springs and axles. I may be able to fit the section wedge in there but:-
2/ I really don't want the wife in amongst the wheels fiddling with wedges and chocks while I'm backing. I can tell you now by the time I get this beast positioned, I will be very warm, so the last thing I will need is extra distractions.
3/ I need a suitable jack one at least for doing wheel changes anyway.
4/ What I didn't mention is that the wife gets migraine headaches, and if she is suffering one of those, and I dare to cause any movement in the van, I get my head chewed off.
5/ I really don't think it will take longer to set up.
So thanks for the comments, just looking at the views of the thread, many people wanted info on this subject.
But the word size will always be S I Z E .....