In layman terms, please. I have a little poptop, about 13' I think.
The fridge is small and I'm not sure if it works on gas. Will check when I pick van up from repairer.
The stove is gas and I have a microwave.
I don't watch tv, but will charge iPad and phone. Only other things are lighting and possibly heater/fan and electric blanket
What do I need to be self self-sufficient and where would items needed be stored?
Price range including installation costs appreciated.
J.
Dhutime said
11:28 PM Oct 25, 2015
Hi Jamjar ,self sufficient camping is fantastic if you are set up correctly .For your lights and charging phone and iPad you will need a good 12 volt battery and inverter maybe charged from a solar panel.
After that you may be hard pressed if you are looking to use a heater and or electric blanket as they will draw much to much power .
Better off considering a gas or diesal heater can be installed around the $2500 mark
Dhutime
Jamjar said
11:33 PM Oct 25, 2015
Oh my, $2500 is more than I'll be able to afford.
14 solar panels on my roof, with inverter only cost me $7000.
J.
Dhutime said
11:49 PM Oct 25, 2015
I am no expert on this other than running our own 3 x 110 amp battery's with 3 solar panels on our van must say never tried a heater but we can run the microwave .We do need to be super Carefull with use-age
The cost for setting up a caravan is considerably higher than installing solar on a house
Jamjar said
12:06 AM Oct 26, 2015
I don't need a heater/fan electric blanket, just thought it may be useful.
The other thing is where batteries would be placed.
It may be best just to go with the little generator, I guess.
J.
PeterD said
12:09 AM Oct 26, 2015
Jamjar, in a little van like yours there is not much carrying capacity. You will not have the capacity to carry enough batteries to run heating devices. Heating devices include your fridge elements and the heater/fan. You may be able to run your electric blanket on half power both sides for 45 minutes and turn it off as you hop into bed.
The $2500 that Dhutime mentioned was for the cost of a heater and not the solar system. He must have a gold plated one, my Webasto diesel heater was only $1500 installed. You should be able to get a solar system for well under $1,000. If you are going to alternate free camping with a night or three in a powered site you can just add a 100 Ah battery and a battery charger. If you don't intend to run a car fridge or those heating devices you should be able to get a week or two if you only run 12 V chargers for those small items and your lights. You can add the solar panels and regulator some time down the track.
Jamjar said
01:04 AM Oct 26, 2015
Thanking you, Peter and Dhutime
I'll look into options when I'm in Sydney, beginning of December.
J.
Aus-Kiwi said
01:09 AM Oct 26, 2015
Won't require a heater from end of October..
Jamjar said
01:22 AM Oct 26, 2015
True, but was damn freezing in Camden this past winter. I had the leckie blanket on and had to go buy a cheap fan heater. :)
J.
madaboutled said
08:25 AM Oct 26, 2015
You have a gas stove so why not use it as your heating source with a little help. An old camping trick was to use an unglased ceramic flower pot inverted over a gas burner, you would heat the pot to enable it to build up and store heat after which you'd turn off the burner and the pot would radiate heat for a few hours. For us about half an hour on the burner would give about 2 hours heat. Warmed up our 16 foot caravan in no time flat.
We used this little trick in our old caravan til one day I dropped the pot. Never replaced it cause these days we go north for winter. Just a warning, the pots get really hot!
And as far as a lekie blanket goes, consider a hot water bottle or 2 as a low power alternative.
-- Edited by madaboutled on Monday 26th of October 2015 08:27:47 AM
toglhot said
08:29 AM Oct 26, 2015
I have a 100AH battery an 80 watt solar battery (about $800-900 installed or about $600 for self installation) to power phones, lights and TV, it is ample and I can live off the grid indefinitely. Without the TV and just powering lights (LEDs) and phones you could get away with a much smaller system.
Batteries are best stored around the wheel arches in smaller vans, stray too far and the towball weight can vary dramatically. A 100AH battery weighs around 30kgs a 200AH around 50kgs, so as an example if you store the battery at or near the towball you will add 30kgs to towball weight, at or near the wheel centres - zero, half way between towball and wheel centre - 15kgs (100AH)/25kgs (200AH).
If you really want to power a heater and microwave you will have to include an inverter (although some microwaves now have built in inverters I believe) a much larger battery bank and a reasonable array of solar panels, oulay could be substantial.
My advice: get a small system comprised of 100AH battery, a 50 to 80 watt panel, go without a microwave and invest in some warmer clothes. Solar panels are cheaper per watt as they go up in size, same can be said for batteries
03_Troopy said
08:38 AM Oct 26, 2015
We don't have a heater in our small van, and have camped out in the centre in the middle of winter where it gets down to below zero over night. We use hot water bottles and a feather doona on the bed and it seems to be all we need to stay warm while sleeping. We have done the same thing with our old camper trailer and used opened out sleeping bags instead of the doona, and has gotten cold enough to freeze the condensation on the inside of the tent roof a few of times. I don't normally wear pyjamas because I hate the restriction while I sleep, but you could wear a light tracksuit as pyjamas if it gets really cold.
Jaahn said
08:49 AM Oct 26, 2015
Jamjar wrote:
In layman terms, please. I have a little poptop, about 13' I think.
The fridge is small and I'm not sure if it works on gas. Will check when I pick van up from repairer.
The stove is gas and I have a microwave.
I don't watch tv, but will charge iPad and phone. Only other things are lighting and possibly heater/fan and electric blanket
What do I need to be self self-sufficient and where would items needed be stored?
Price range including installation costs appreciated.
J.
Hi Jamjar,
Another suggestion for your modest needs.
Forget the microwave, use the stove. Get a gas heater if necessary, and wear more clothes. Run the fridge on gas only. A fridge is the biggest single user of power as it is on 24/7 so sort that first.
For electricity put a battery, say 100AH into your tow car. Fit a VSR to charge it from the car system when driving. If you do not have a fancy new car this will be OK. Then an anderson plug connection and some decent wiring back to the van. Some LED lights and a power socket for charging the devices. Not sure about the cost fitted as I do all my own work but should be less than $1000 and change. Ask an auto electrician for a quote.
A portable solar panel and regulator would be my step up from that connected to the battery.
Jaahn
-- Edited by Jaahn on Monday 26th of October 2015 08:55:41 AM
Jamjar said
10:16 AM Oct 26, 2015
Thank you all for this excellent info. You have given me food for thought.
Love the planter pot idea. :)
I can honestly say that other than adding a winter coat I couldn't wear anymore clothes than I already do in winter. I even have the woollen thermal underwear. After last winter, I did purchase a mountaineering sleeping bag, which I believe is good to something like -10 degrees.
It doesn't matter how many covers you have on a bed if you have very low body fat and poor circulation. :( Water bottles don't work.
The wheel arches are in cupboards and there isn't any room for a battery etc. There are cupboards under the bed at the back and under the seats at the front dining area.
The answer of course would be to free camp only in the warmer months.
J.
Peter_n_Margaret said
10:33 AM Oct 26, 2015
madaboutled wrote:
An old camping trick was to use an unglased ceramic flower pot inverted over a gas burner,
That is a good way to get DEAD.
Gas stoves emit carbon monoxide which is a poisonous gas.
Putting a pot over a burner will dramatically increase the carbon monoxide gas produced.
DO NOT DO THIS PLEASE.
Cheers,
Peter
Jamjar said
11:09 AM Oct 26, 2015
Yes, they do Peter, but I can't see how having a pot over the flame could increase the CO levels, the gas will escape around the edge the same as if you have a saucepan on it.
I did say I liked it, not that I was going to do it, though. ;)
J.
Santa said
11:45 AM Oct 26, 2015
As Peter said, don't use your stove as a heater, have a read through this.
Yes, they do Peter, but I can't see how having a pot over the flame could increase the CO levels, the gas will escape around the edge the same as if you have a saucepan on it.
Jamjar, it's not whether the plant pot increases the CO level or not. Using any open gas flame for heating is not on. Stoves are permitted to be used as they are operated whilst people are active and they are not used for long periods like heaters are. Heaters are used for lengthy periods so regulations insist that they must draw their combustion air from outside the cabin and the exhaust products must be ducted to the outside air. Santa's link is an example of what can happen. The gas regs have been amended recently to remind that where a gas fridge is on the LHS of the van you must not enclose its vents within an annex. Health and maintaining it is a serious subject.
-- Edited by PeterD on Monday 26th of October 2015 12:50:34 PM
03_Troopy said
01:38 PM Oct 26, 2015
madaboutled wrote:
You have a gas stove so why not use it as your heating source with a little help. An old camping trick was to use an unglased ceramic flower pot inverted over a gas burner, you would heat the pot to enable it to build up and store heat after which you'd turn off the burner and the pot would radiate heat for a few hours. For us about half an hour on the burner would give about 2 hours heat. Warmed up our 16 foot caravan in no time flat.
We used this little trick in our old caravan til one day I dropped the pot. Never replaced it cause these days we go north for winter. Just a warning, the pots get really hot!
And as far as a lekie blanket goes, consider a hot water bottle or 2 as a low power alternative.
-- Edited by madaboutled on Monday 26th of October 2015 08:27:47 AM
The way he describes it, you aren't leaving the gas burner on while heating the van as you sleep. You only use it to warm up the pot. Of course it could be possible to drop off to sleep while heating the pot, but no more than would be likely when you make yourself a cup of coffee or cook dinner.
elliemike said
01:49 PM Oct 26, 2015
Plant Pot Gas Heater
How many times has this come up in the forum over the past years.
As other forum members have stated many time on here This is a DANGEROUS Practice. Even gas heaters have warnings on them "Do Not Use In Tents or Enclosed areas".
Diesel heater $600 on flea-bay, charge everything from your 12v, laptop chargers from Jaycar & everything else has a cig lighter type adapter available. Forget heating & cooling from battery's on such a small set up.
PeterInSa said
07:03 PM Oct 26, 2015
Note Comments below refer to the 12v lighting in your Caravan, some older caravans only have 240volts lights in which case my comments below do NOT Apply.
Years ago we had a 16ft poptop, when connected to the tug, the lights in the caravan were powered via the tugs starting battery. If disconnected from the tug I had a 6m cable that pluged into the 7pin socket on the tug and the plug on the caravan so still could run lights etc.
If you have such a setup, change the interior lights to Led( around $3each from overseas), if you do not have such a setup ie the 12v power, look at installing same. A further extension could be a deep cycle battery (lead acid $150 plus battery frame/mounting) installed in the engine compartment and the battery charged at the same time as the starting battery and supply power to the caravan. Not the nicest but workable.
Run a cable for 12volts ( with cable shielding from Jaycar) from the caravan plug to interior of the caravan and mount a 12v socket to charge the ipad and phone ( less than $40 for cable/shielding and socket) . Could also be used with a small inverter from Repco/Jaycar ( 120watts $50) to run a fan and maybe/not sure of the wattage of an electric blanket for a couple of hours.
If no room is available in the engine bay of the tug a deep cycle battery could be installed in the caravan in which case suggest an AGM battery ( Lead acid batteries produces gas that you do not want in the van)would be required probably around $320 ( plus fuse holder/fuse/battery holder)also charged from the tugs alternator. When the caravan is not being used would look at small sola charger on special at around $20 to charge the AGM battery ie plug into the caravans plug ie will need to connect a socket to the sola cable ($10). Or small battery charger ($30)
To me this is basic, as against Diesel heaters, Sola panels/regulators, Modern dual battery charging systems.
Peter
elliemike said
07:27 PM Oct 26, 2015
03_Troopy wrote:
madaboutled wrote:
You have a gas stove so why not use it as your heating source with a little help. An old camping trick was to use an unglased ceramic flower pot inverted over a gas burner, you would heat the pot to enable it to build up and store heat after which you'd turn off the burner and the pot would radiate heat for a few hours. For us about half an hour on the burner would give about 2 hours heat. Warmed up our 16 foot caravan in no time flat.
We used this little trick in our old caravan til one day I dropped the pot. Never replaced it cause these days we go north for winter. Just a warning, the pots get really hot!
And as far as a lekie blanket goes, consider a hot water bottle or 2 as a low power alternative.
-- Edited by madaboutled on Monday 26th of October 2015 08:27:47 AM
The way he describes it, you aren't leaving the gas burner on while heating the van as you sleep. You only use it to warm up the pot. Of course it could be possible to drop off to sleep while heating the pot, but no more than would be likely when you make yourself a cup of coffee or cook dinner.
You are usually relaxing while heating the van after dinner say. The Happy hour over nice dinner, and a relax with a book. How many times do you do this at home or in the van and nod off for ten minutes.
Using the gas hob to heat the space or a gas appliance is not failsafe.. You are always vigilant and will never leave it on burning too long to make you drowsy. I believe it is a pleasant way to go as you can literally "Drop Off" for Ever. Just like falling into a very deep sleep.
Spend the money and get a Diesel or Gas Heater installed. Or use a gennie and Pi$$ your neighbours off, runninhg a fan heater of some sort.
I favour the Diesel Heater as I use one for heating . And Solar Power for everything else mainly, no problem.
oldtrack123 said
08:25 PM Oct 26, 2015
madaboutled wrote:
You have a gas stove so why not use it as your heating source with a little help. An old camping trick was to use an unglased ceramic flower pot inverted over a gas burner, you would heat the pot to enable it to build up and store heat after which you'd turn off the burner and the pot would radiate heat for a few hours. For us about half an hour on the burner would give about 2 hours heat. Warmed up our 16 foot caravan in no time flat.
We used this little trick in our old caravan til one day I dropped the pot. Never replaced it cause these days we go north for winter. Just a warning, the pots get really hot!
And as far as a lekie blanket goes, consider a hot water bottle or 2 as a low power alternative.
-- Edited by madaboutled on Monday 26th of October 2015 08:27:47 AM
OOh my God
Pot inverted of burner
What a ridiculous suggestion
That has long been recognised as a very dangerous practice by sensible people!
One easy way to get the CO levels up in the van !!
Sleepy bye , never to wake up.
Just do a bit of goggling & you will find lots of warnings against doing that!!!
Yes ,I know you've done it for years & nothing happened., sooo that must mean it's safe & sensible ???
-- Edited by oldtrack123 on Monday 26th of October 2015 08:33:54 PM
Phil C said
06:17 PM Oct 29, 2015
When we decided to get a van and take on the GN lifestyle these very questions would often keep me awake at night. How can we be self sustaining on battery and solar?
Actually the answer was simple and has been spoken of before on this thread.
We ditched the microwave when free camping, the fridge is on gas, we are lucky enough to have all LED lighting and I have installed a 12 volt fan system which keeps us at a good temp on a hot day with some wet washers on the face occasionally. If it gets seriously hot we hitch up and drive on in air conditioning in the ute.
The water for washing is via the tanks and a 12 volt pump, we import our drinking water from the local supermarket, and sleep well on cold nights with the inverter working the electric blankets.
I have to say we have done well so far, touch wood. I expect as the batteries get older a little less time for watching TV etc
BTW I have never used the generator as the solar gets enough charge into the batteries. Works for me, now I sleep well at night.
In layman terms, please. I have a little poptop, about 13' I think.
The fridge is small and I'm not sure if it works on gas. Will check when I pick van up from repairer.
The stove is gas and I have a microwave.
I don't watch tv, but will charge iPad and phone. Only other things are lighting and possibly heater/fan and electric blanket
What do I need to be self self-sufficient and where would items needed be stored?
Price range including installation costs appreciated.
J.
After that you may be hard pressed if you are looking to use a heater and or electric blanket as they will draw much to much power .
Better off considering a gas or diesal heater can be installed around the $2500 mark
Dhutime
Oh my, $2500 is more than I'll be able to afford.
14 solar panels on my roof, with inverter only cost me $7000.
J.
The cost for setting up a caravan is considerably higher than installing solar on a house
I don't need a heater/fan electric blanket, just thought it may be useful.
The other thing is where batteries would be placed.
It may be best just to go with the little generator, I guess.
J.
The $2500 that Dhutime mentioned was for the cost of a heater and not the solar system. He must have a gold plated one, my Webasto diesel heater was only $1500 installed. You should be able to get a solar system for well under $1,000. If you are going to alternate free camping with a night or three in a powered site you can just add a 100 Ah battery and a battery charger. If you don't intend to run a car fridge or those heating devices you should be able to get a week or two if you only run 12 V chargers for those small items and your lights. You can add the solar panels and regulator some time down the track.
Thanking you, Peter and Dhutime
I'll look into options when I'm in Sydney, beginning of December.
J.
True, but was damn freezing in Camden this past winter. I had the leckie blanket on and had to go buy a cheap fan heater. :)
J.
You have a gas stove so why not use it as your heating source with a little help. An old camping trick was to use an unglased ceramic flower pot inverted over a gas burner, you would heat the pot to enable it to build up and store heat after which you'd turn off the burner and the pot would radiate heat for a few hours. For us about half an hour on the burner would give about 2 hours heat. Warmed up our 16 foot caravan in no time flat.
We used this little trick in our old caravan til one day I dropped the pot. Never replaced it cause these days we go north for winter. Just a warning, the pots get really hot!
And as far as a lekie blanket goes, consider a hot water bottle or 2 as a low power alternative.
-- Edited by madaboutled on Monday 26th of October 2015 08:27:47 AM
Batteries are best stored around the wheel arches in smaller vans, stray too far and the towball weight can vary dramatically. A 100AH battery weighs around 30kgs a 200AH around 50kgs, so as an example if you store the battery at or near the towball you will add 30kgs to towball weight, at or near the wheel centres - zero, half way between towball and wheel centre - 15kgs (100AH)/25kgs (200AH).
If you really want to power a heater and microwave you will have to include an inverter (although some microwaves now have built in inverters I believe) a much larger battery bank and a reasonable array of solar panels, oulay could be substantial.
My advice: get a small system comprised of 100AH battery, a 50 to 80 watt panel, go without a microwave and invest in some warmer clothes. Solar panels are cheaper per watt as they go up in size, same can be said for batteries
Hi Jamjar,
Another suggestion for your modest needs.
Forget the microwave, use the stove. Get a gas heater if necessary, and wear more clothes. Run the fridge on gas only. A fridge is the biggest single user of power as it is on 24/7 so sort that first.
For electricity put a battery, say 100AH into your tow car. Fit a VSR to charge it from the car system when driving. If you do not have a fancy new car this will be OK. Then an anderson plug connection and some decent wiring back to the van. Some LED lights and a power socket for charging the devices. Not sure about the cost fitted as I do all my own work but should be less than $1000 and change. Ask an auto electrician for a quote.
A portable solar panel and regulator would be my step up from that connected to the battery.
Jaahn
-- Edited by Jaahn on Monday 26th of October 2015 08:55:41 AM
Love the planter pot idea. :)
I can honestly say that other than adding a winter coat I couldn't wear anymore clothes than I already do in winter. I even have the woollen thermal underwear. After last winter, I did purchase a mountaineering sleeping bag, which I believe is good to something like -10 degrees.
It doesn't matter how many covers you have on a bed if you have very low body fat and poor circulation. :( Water bottles don't work.
The wheel arches are in cupboards and there isn't any room for a battery etc. There are cupboards under the bed at the back and under the seats at the front dining area.
The answer of course would be to free camp only in the warmer months.
J.
That is a good way to get DEAD.
Gas stoves emit carbon monoxide which is a poisonous gas.
Putting a pot over a burner will dramatically increase the carbon monoxide gas produced.
DO NOT DO THIS PLEASE.
Cheers,
Peter
Yes, they do Peter, but I can't see how having a pot over the flame could increase the CO levels, the gas will escape around the edge the same as if you have a saucepan on it.
I did say I liked it, not that I was going to do it, though. ;)
J.
As Peter said, don't use your stove as a heater, have a read through this.
https://www.dhhs.tas.gov.au/news/2014/indoor_gas_poisoning_health_warning_issued
Jamjar, it's not whether the plant pot increases the CO level or not. Using any open gas flame for heating is not on. Stoves are permitted to be used as they are operated whilst people are active and they are not used for long periods like heaters are. Heaters are used for lengthy periods so regulations insist that they must draw their combustion air from outside the cabin and the exhaust products must be ducted to the outside air. Santa's link is an example of what can happen. The gas regs have been amended recently to remind that where a gas fridge is on the LHS of the van you must not enclose its vents within an annex. Health and maintaining it is a serious subject.
-- Edited by PeterD on Monday 26th of October 2015 12:50:34 PM
The way he describes it, you aren't leaving the gas burner on while heating the van as you sleep. You only use it to warm up the pot. Of course it could be possible to drop off to sleep while heating the pot, but no more than would be likely when you make yourself a cup of coffee or cook dinner.
Plant Pot Gas Heater
How many times has this come up in the forum over the past years.
As other forum members have stated many time on here This is a DANGEROUS Practice. Even gas heaters have warnings on them "Do Not Use In Tents or Enclosed areas".
http://www.campertrailers.org/heater_dangers.htm
Years ago we had a 16ft poptop, when connected to the tug, the lights in the caravan were powered via the tugs starting battery. If disconnected from the tug I had a 6m cable that pluged into the 7pin socket on the tug and the plug on the caravan so still could run lights etc.
If you have such a setup, change the interior lights to Led( around $3each from overseas), if you do not have such a setup ie the 12v power, look at installing same. A further extension could be a deep cycle battery (lead acid $150 plus battery frame/mounting) installed in the engine compartment and the battery charged at the same time as the starting battery and supply power to the caravan. Not the nicest but workable.
Run a cable for 12volts ( with cable shielding from Jaycar) from the caravan plug to interior of the caravan and mount a 12v socket to charge the ipad and phone ( less than $40 for cable/shielding and socket) . Could also be used with a small inverter from Repco/Jaycar ( 120watts $50) to run a fan and maybe/not sure of the wattage of an electric blanket for a couple of hours.
If no room is available in the engine bay of the tug a deep cycle battery could be installed in the caravan in which case suggest an AGM battery ( Lead acid batteries produces gas that you do not want in the van)would be required probably around $320 ( plus fuse holder/fuse/battery holder)also charged from the tugs alternator. When the caravan is not being used would look at small sola charger on special at around $20 to charge the AGM battery ie plug into the caravans plug ie will need to connect a socket to the sola cable ($10). Or small battery charger ($30)
To me this is basic, as against Diesel heaters, Sola panels/regulators, Modern dual battery charging systems.
Peter
You are usually relaxing while heating the van after dinner say. The Happy hour over nice dinner, and a relax with a book. How many times do you do this at home or in the van and nod off for ten minutes.
Using the gas hob to heat the space or a gas appliance is not failsafe.. You are always vigilant and will never leave it on burning too long to make you drowsy. I believe it is a pleasant way to go as you can literally "Drop Off" for Ever. Just like falling into a very deep sleep.
Spend the money and get a Diesel or Gas Heater installed. Or use a gennie and Pi$$ your neighbours off, runninhg a fan heater of some sort.
I favour the Diesel Heater as I use one for heating . And Solar Power for everything else mainly, no problem.
OOh my God
Pot inverted of burner
What a ridiculous suggestion
That has long been recognised as a very dangerous practice by sensible people!
One easy way to get the CO levels up in the van !!
Sleepy bye , never to wake up.
Just do a bit of goggling & you will find lots of warnings against doing that!!!
Yes ,I know you've done it for years & nothing happened., sooo that must mean it's safe & sensible ???
-- Edited by oldtrack123 on Monday 26th of October 2015 08:33:54 PM
Actually the answer was simple and has been spoken of before on this thread.
We ditched the microwave when free camping, the fridge is on gas, we are lucky enough to have all LED lighting and I have installed a 12 volt fan system which keeps us at a good temp on a hot day with some wet washers on the face occasionally. If it gets seriously hot we hitch up and drive on in air conditioning in the ute.
The water for washing is via the tanks and a 12 volt pump, we import our drinking water from the local supermarket, and sleep well on cold nights with the inverter working the electric blankets.
I have to say we have done well so far, touch wood. I expect as the batteries get older a little less time for watching TV etc
BTW I have never used the generator as the solar gets enough charge into the batteries. Works for me, now I sleep well at night.
Cheers