Though forums are a powerful and convenient medium, researchers have identified three major problems. First and foremost, forum posts lack cues like facial expression and tone of voice. That makes it difficult for recipients to decode meaning well. Second, the prospect of instantaneous communication creates an urgency that pressures posters to think and write quickly, which can lead to carelessness. Finally, the inability to develop personal rapport over posts makes relationships fragile in the face of conflict.
In effect, posts cannot adequately convey emotion. A recent study focused on how well sarcasm is detected in electronic messages. The conclusion: Not only do posters overestimate their ability to communicate feelings, but forum post recipients also overestimate their ability to correctly decode those feelings.
One reason for this is that people are egocentric. They assume others experience stimuli the same way they do. Also, posts lack body language, tone of voice, and other cues - making it difficult to interpret emotion.
"A typical post has the feature of seeming like face-to-face communication." "It's informal and it's rapid, so you assume you're getting the same paralinguistic cues you get from spoken communication."
To avoid miscommunication, posters need to look at what they write from the recipient's perspective. One strategy: Read it aloud in the opposite way you intend, whether serious or sarcastic. If it doesn't make sense either way, revise. Posts can be ambiguous.
Posts tend to be short and to the point. This may arise from the time pressures we feel when writing them: We know posts arrive as soon as we send, so we feel we should write it quickly, too.
The brevity of posts and the absence of audiovisual cues can endanger personal relationships unless a post is supplemented with the rapport that comes from more personal communication.
"Rapport creates a buffer of positive regard, and when it's not there negotiation becomes brittle, vulnerable to falling apart."
Rapport "is an interpersonal resonance of emotional expression, involving synchronous gesture, laughing, and smiling together. Once this rapport exists, it's a buffer against a moment in the communication when there's some friction." This buffer is hard to develop without speaking in person.
Cheers - no apologies for the plagiarism - John
gollymolly said
09:48 PM Oct 19, 2015
I agree, it's like sending emails.
My name was bullet form at work so had to really think about my writing without being rude. 😃
jules47 said
11:48 PM Oct 19, 2015
Well said there Rocky Lizard - it's like "think before you speak" - well "read before you post" could be the mantra for posters on any forum. I try to read my post as I intend it to come across to the reader, and also if I changed a word, would it be easier to understand.
Joe50 said
12:17 AM Oct 20, 2015
Good advice there. We should read through our posts before clicking on the Post or Submit button - and that's actually reading it slowly, assuming you've never seen it before, not just skimming over the words. Sometimes helps to read it aloud if you've chopped and changed it a bit. Mistakes stand out more if you hear them.
Cheers
Joe
Woody n Sue said
08:46 AM Oct 20, 2015
Excellent post Rocky couldn't agree more
Woody
Bruce and Bev said
10:47 AM Oct 20, 2015
I agree with all the comments above..........it is so easy for some others to misconstrue your post or comment and either 1) not understand the point you are trying to make, or b) take offense. We have all been in situations, face to face, with someone and explaining/telling or chatting to them and you can see by their facial expression as you move your lips that its not going over as you intended. Then you either 1) change tack 2) slow down and explain more carefully 3) change the subject
Rocky is spot on with written communication of this nature being read differently to what was intended.
Having said all that, last year the Forum was much more robust and many comments were made then that now would have some rushing off to Cindy to complain. Recently we seem to have become super sensitive and quick to take offence at comments that are not clear or may be taken as rude. The result.............many people have left the Forum, others come on here much less (Sheba. Jules and many others) and the number of new posts have just dried up to a trickle.
Some blame Facebook camping Apps, but there are enough people who still come onto this Forum to still make it exciting, funny and vibrant, instead of slowly dying as it is
BTW If I have offended, upset or confused anyone with my post, I apologise in advance lol
rockylizard said
11:16 AM Oct 20, 2015
Gday...
The intention of my wordy attempt to have people realise that not only is it difficult to write/post/compose comments that don't grate, it is also difficult to read/interpret comments that seem to grate.
That said, I have been a member here for six years. Over that time there have been many who have come on and posted with scant regard to the feelings of others - far too many - not unusual for any forum.
Thankfully, those who are here for the "right" reason seem to weather their digs/barbs/abuse and those who have had different 'attitudes' seem to simply fade away - probably because their aggression/thoughtlessness has been mainly ignored. I am sure Cindy may have had a quiet word in some of their ears and encouraged them to move along as well.
There are no more 'stirrers' now, from my observation, than there have been in times past. What seems to be the difference, is that people seem to either take umbrage from the comments of the 'stirrers' (2%ers?) and delete themselves ... or those who are contacted by Cindy, aren't willing to moderate their attitude/comments/posts to fit in with the "GN culture", appropriateness and friendship that has been nurtured on this forum.
Perhaps something else that seems to have become more recently prevalent is the 'silent' complainant to Cindy, putting her in the invidious position to enact her role as moderator - making her the Wicked Witch of the West. I think in times past, the 'right' members have either ignored the aggressor/stirrer until they left the forum.
Over my six years, I too have suffered the thoughtless and vicious comments - including PMs - from those who felt they needed to 'point out my failings'. However, I think that to spit one's dummy and take one's bat and ball and go home because of the attitude of someone else is not in anyone's best interest. I like this forum - an important part of my day.
All I would like to see is that people THINK about what they want to post or reply to a post - read before hitting SUBMIT and check whether it might be seen as provocative ... and for people to THINK and try to read between the lines of comments that may seem to be provocative - and perhaps let the wave wash over them a bit rather than try to 'crash through'.
Add to that, that we are all very different personalities and for that reason what is a quick quip meant to be humourous from one can be seen as provocative/offensive by another.
As I tried to convey in the original wordy post, simply remember that the written word is difficult for the reader to interpret ... especially if written quickly and is a brief quip-type comment.
[edit: sorry Bruce, I do not see that this forum is "dying" just because some people have taken umbrage, and their bat and ball, and gone home. There are heaps still here, interested, involved, contributing and enjoying the company.]
Cheers - and happy travelling - John
-- Edited by rockylizard on Tuesday 20th of October 2015 11:18:12 AM
elliemike said
11:52 AM Oct 20, 2015
This forum has regularly waxed and waned slightly over the years that I have been following it.
There have been those who get upset and leave in great flurries of posts about I'm Going, Yes I am, I really am going, That's it i'm outta here. They come and go like this on all Forums.
Rockylizards post is a good one.
Fastcoach said
01:26 PM Oct 20, 2015
If people want to leave a forum, that's their rite. But please don't think we'll all stand around sobbing in your absence.
Some good folks have quietly slipped away without feeling the need to make a grandstand statement about their intent.
Like any good forum there'll always be someone else eager to take over with the commentary.
Young Simmo said
01:30 PM Oct 20, 2015
To sum it all up there are a couple ofGrey Nomads, that have noGrey Matter, which makes it aGrey Day, inaGrey World.
OK that's my 2 bobs worth, I am ready.........Simmo.
dazren said
08:38 PM Oct 20, 2015
Fastcoach wrote, [ in part ] -- Like any good forum there'll always be someone else eager to take over with the commentary.
Glad you think the forum is as good as it once was, ? -- But the damage people refer to was done well before you joined, hence the forum you remember, and the forum some others remember, make all comments valid, ? in the eyes of the beholder, ??
Cupie said
08:45 PM Oct 20, 2015
John ..
A good post.
Mutt said
10:52 PM Oct 20, 2015
It's funny when some people get older how they change into old fuddy duddies. When people are younger, they seem to be more broad-minded. "Middle age - where the broad mind and narrow waist change places." If I commented on some of the things on here, most of my post would probably be deleted. I read a lot of posts and don't comment, because sometimes I feel it pointless. I've been a motor mechanic for fifty years and a lot of tech stuff I don't comment on, and some people should be very careful of the advice they give. I don't know why people take life so seriously, "You won't get out alive." Loosen up and enjoy the site and people's comments. If there's something you don't like, then don't read it.
Young Simmo said
12:00 AM Oct 21, 2015
Sorry Mutt but, you did say, If there's something you don't like, then don't read it.
This might be classed as a dumb question but I have to ask, How do you know you don't like it, if you don't read it?
Cheers ....Simmo.
Mutt said
12:11 AM Oct 21, 2015
Hi Simmo
If you don't like what you start to read then why read it all then complain about it. It's like someone will say "did you watch that disgusting show on TV. "And will still watch the whole show. Hope you understand what I mean. A lot of stuff people would have seen and read when they were young was ok. But now they are older it's not ok.
Young Simmo said
12:17 AM Oct 21, 2015
No worries Mutt, I started out as a Mechanical Fitter, but also like a bit of Philosophy as well.
Cheers....Simmo.
dazren said
03:21 PM Oct 21, 2015
Simmo !! it's a bit like this post of yours ? it is in normal size print, ? so i have read it, but when you do the large look at me type print 90% of the time i just scroll past it
Young Simmo said
04:18 PM Oct 21, 2015
dazren , Iwon'ttell you haw to run tour life, if you don'ttell me how to run mine.
Simmo.
Also why use ?, for a statement?????????
Happywanderer said
06:33 PM Oct 21, 2015
OMG. Please close this thread Cindy which did start off very well.
Young Simmo said
06:36 PM Oct 21, 2015
Don't blame me I didn't start the crap, I just reply.
Simmo.
rockylizard said
07:09 PM Oct 21, 2015
Happywanderer wrote:
OMG. Please close this thread Cindy which did start off very well.
Gday...
Cheers - John
Aus-Kiwi said
07:18 PM Oct 21, 2015
Little things like. Lol ( laugh out loud) after a humour statement .. Why some have small emotion pics on some there forums.
A smiley, bunch of flowers etc
What it is.. Another person gives their opinion.. That's just what it is..
Another way of looking at things .. Glass is half full, no it's half empty...
YEP!!
KFT said
07:21 PM Oct 21, 2015
AK whichever state the glass is currently in
It can be refilled LOL
frank
hehehe
Dougwe said
07:53 PM Oct 21, 2015
Mmm, how can you put more in, if the top half is full though KFC
Is that still on topic
rockylizard said
07:57 PM Oct 21, 2015
Gday...
Cheers - John
Aus-Kiwi said
08:04 PM Oct 21, 2015
Different story if it was beer .. Never full enough.. Lol
dazren said
09:54 PM Oct 21, 2015
SIMMO WROTE,
dazren , Iwon'ttell you haw to run tour life, if you don'ttell me how to run mine.
Simmo.
Also why use ?, for a statement?????????
Simmo , my apologies for using a question mark [ ? ] after a statement, I can see by your reply that you are a stickler for being grammatically correct in not only your spelling, but also your clear, precise, unassuming, non attention seeking, presentation and layout of your reply, ! and in future i will endeavour to ensure not to use a misplaced question mark in any future postings
Also I apologise if i gave the impression that i was telling you how to run your life, that was not my intention, in fact i do not want anything to do with your life, and i assume you also have no wish to have anything to do with mine ? It is nice to know that in this we have found some common ground of agreement
However for causing you some anxious and disturbing moments ? I think it only fair that i follow the path of some others and Ban myself from this forum for a period of not less than 5 days, Upon my return if you chose to ignore my future posts, that will be fine and we can both be happy vanners,
-- Edited by dazren on Wednesday 21st of October 2015 09:55:26 PM
03_Troopy said
09:57 PM Oct 21, 2015
..............................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................
There's a batch of full stops for you dazren, in case your keyboard has run out of them.
Baz421 said
10:02 PM Oct 21, 2015
03_Troopy wrote:
.............................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................. There's a batch of full stops for you dazren, in case your keyboard has run out of them.
yeh and some ,,, IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII's to replace the lower case ones you used Dazren,,, tsk tsk how can you be so tardy.
You are important enough to use the capital I.
Yah gotta laugh eh,,,, they walk amongst us.
Young Simmo said
10:11 PM Oct 21, 2015
OK, I'll try and be more dull, boring and colourless.
Gday...
Though forums are a powerful and convenient medium, researchers have identified three major problems. First and foremost, forum posts lack cues like facial expression and tone of voice. That makes it difficult for recipients to decode meaning well. Second, the prospect of instantaneous communication creates an urgency that pressures posters to think and write quickly, which can lead to carelessness. Finally, the inability to develop personal rapport over posts makes relationships fragile in the face of conflict.
In effect, posts cannot adequately convey emotion. A recent study focused on how well sarcasm is detected in electronic messages. The conclusion: Not only do posters overestimate their ability to communicate feelings, but forum post recipients also overestimate their ability to correctly decode those feelings.
One reason for this is that people are egocentric. They assume others experience stimuli the same way they do. Also, posts lack body language, tone of voice, and other cues - making it difficult to interpret emotion.
"A typical post has the feature of seeming like face-to-face communication." "It's informal and it's rapid, so you assume you're getting the same paralinguistic cues you get from spoken communication."
To avoid miscommunication, posters need to look at what they write from the recipient's perspective. One strategy: Read it aloud in the opposite way you intend, whether serious or sarcastic. If it doesn't make sense either way, revise. Posts can be ambiguous.
Posts tend to be short and to the point. This may arise from the time pressures we feel when writing them: We know posts arrive as soon as we send, so we feel we should write it quickly, too.
The brevity of posts and the absence of audiovisual cues can endanger personal relationships unless a post is supplemented with the rapport that comes from more personal communication.
"Rapport creates a buffer of positive regard, and when it's not there negotiation becomes brittle, vulnerable to falling apart."
Rapport "is an interpersonal resonance of emotional expression, involving synchronous gesture, laughing, and smiling together. Once this rapport exists, it's a buffer against a moment in the communication when there's some friction." This buffer is hard to develop without speaking in person.
Cheers - no apologies for the plagiarism - John
My name was bullet form at work so had to really think about my writing without being rude. 😃
Cheers
Joe
Woody
Rocky is spot on with written communication of this nature being read differently to what was intended.
Having said all that, last year the Forum was much more robust and many comments were made then that now would have some rushing off to Cindy to complain. Recently we seem to have become super sensitive and quick to take offence at comments that are not clear or may be taken as rude. The result.............many people have left the Forum, others come on here much less (Sheba. Jules and many others) and the number of new posts have just dried up to a trickle.
Some blame Facebook camping Apps, but there are enough people who still come onto this Forum to still make it exciting, funny and vibrant, instead of slowly dying as it is
BTW If I have offended, upset or confused anyone with my post, I apologise in advance lol
Gday...
The intention of my wordy attempt to have people realise that not only is it difficult to write/post/compose comments that don't grate, it is also difficult to read/interpret comments that seem to grate.
That said, I have been a member here for six years. Over that time there have been many who have come on and posted with scant regard to the feelings of others - far too many - not unusual for any forum.
Thankfully, those who are here for the "right" reason seem to weather their digs/barbs/abuse and those who have had different 'attitudes' seem to simply fade away - probably because their aggression/thoughtlessness has been mainly ignored. I am sure Cindy may have had a quiet word in some of their ears and encouraged them to move along as well.
There are no more 'stirrers' now, from my observation, than there have been in times past. What seems to be the difference, is that people seem to either take umbrage from the comments of the 'stirrers' (2%ers?) and delete themselves ... or those who are contacted by Cindy, aren't willing to moderate their attitude/comments/posts to fit in with the "GN culture", appropriateness and friendship that has been nurtured on this forum.
Perhaps something else that seems to have become more recently prevalent is the 'silent' complainant to Cindy, putting her in the invidious position to enact her role as moderator - making her the Wicked Witch of the West. I think in times past, the 'right' members have either ignored the aggressor/stirrer until they left the forum.
Over my six years, I too have suffered the thoughtless and vicious comments - including PMs - from those who felt they needed to 'point out my failings'. However, I think that to spit one's dummy and take one's bat and ball and go home because of the attitude of someone else is not in anyone's best interest. I like this forum - an important part of my day.
All I would like to see is that people THINK about what they want to post or reply to a post - read before hitting SUBMIT and check whether it might be seen as provocative ... and for people to THINK and try to read between the lines of comments that may seem to be provocative - and perhaps let the wave wash over them a bit rather than try to 'crash through'.
Add to that, that we are all very different personalities and for that reason what is a quick quip meant to be humourous from one can be seen as provocative/offensive by another.
As I tried to convey in the original wordy post, simply remember that the written word is difficult for the reader to interpret ... especially if written quickly and is a brief quip-type comment.
[edit: sorry Bruce, I do not see that this forum is "dying" just because some people have taken umbrage, and their bat and ball, and gone home. There are heaps still here, interested, involved, contributing and enjoying the company.]
Cheers - and happy travelling - John
-- Edited by rockylizard on Tuesday 20th of October 2015 11:18:12 AM
This forum has regularly waxed and waned slightly over the years that I have been following it.
There have been those who get upset and leave in great flurries of posts about I'm Going, Yes I am, I really am going, That's it i'm outta here. They come and go like this on all Forums.
Rockylizards post is a good one.
Some good folks have quietly slipped away without feeling the need to make a grandstand statement about their intent.
Like any good forum there'll always be someone else eager to take over with the commentary.
To sum it all up there are a couple of Grey Nomads, that have no Grey Matter, which makes it a Grey Day, in a Grey World.
OK that's my 2 bobs worth, I am ready.........Simmo.
Fastcoach wrote, [ in part ] -- Like any good forum there'll always be someone else eager to take over with the commentary.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Glad you think the forum is as good as it once was, ? -- But the damage people refer to was done well before you joined, hence the forum you remember, and the forum some others remember, make all comments valid, ? in the eyes of the beholder, ??
John ..
A good post.
Sorry Mutt but, you did say, If there's something you don't like, then don't read it.
This might be classed as a dumb question but I have to ask, How do you know you don't like it, if you don't read it?
Cheers ....Simmo.
Cheers....Simmo.
dazren , I won't tell you haw to run tour life, if you don't tell me how to run mine.
Also why use ?, for a statement?????????
OMG. Please close this thread Cindy which did start off very well.
Simmo.
Gday...
Cheers - John
A smiley, bunch of flowers etc
What it is.. Another person gives their opinion.. That's just what it is..
Another way of looking at things .. Glass is half full, no it's half empty...
YEP!!
It can be refilled LOL
frank
hehehe
Mmm, how can you put more in, if the top half is full though KFC
Is that still on topic
Gday...
Cheers - John
SIMMO WROTE,
dazren , I won't tell you haw to run tour life, if you don't tell me how to run mine.
Also why use ?, for a statement?????????
Simmo , my apologies for using a question mark [ ? ] after a statement, I can see by your reply that you are a stickler for being grammatically correct in not only your spelling, but also your clear, precise, unassuming, non attention seeking, presentation and layout of your reply, ! and in future i will endeavour to ensure not to use a misplaced question mark in any future postings
Also I apologise if i gave the impression that i was telling you how to run your life, that was not my intention, in fact i do not want anything to do with your life, and i assume you also have no wish to have anything to do with mine ? It is nice to know that in this we have found some common ground of agreement
However for causing you some anxious and disturbing moments ? I think it only fair that i follow the path of some others and Ban myself from this forum for a period of not less than 5 days, Upon my return if you chose to ignore my future posts, that will be fine and we can both be happy vanners,
-- Edited by dazren on Wednesday 21st of October 2015 09:55:26 PM
There's a batch of full stops for you dazren, in case your keyboard has run out of them.
yeh and some ,,, IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII's to replace the lower case ones you used Dazren,,, tsk tsk how can you be so tardy.
You are important enough to use the capital I.
Yah gotta laugh eh,,,, they walk amongst us.
OK, I'll try and be more dull, boring and colourless.