I know it has been discussed before but in view of a certain RV organization that shall nameless, and their ambitions in regard to camping areas, and the requirements that more and more councils are likely to put in place for those camping within their domain to be completely self contained, I am once again seriously looking at installing something to contain the grey water if required by the circumstances.
Because of space restrictions under the van, and plumbing pipes running all over the place the thought at this point in time consists of utilizing three sections of 150mm PCV around 1.8 metres long with a screw on cap at one end for cleaning purposes, and the three joined at the other end with elbows and a T piece plus with an appropriate outlet and tap fitted. Which would also be the outlet to fit the waste hose to be used in areas where the grey water is of value in watering whatever trees and scrubs may require it.
The reason for using three sections is that it would allow slightly shorter pieces and still have a reasonable volume, and it would help in sitting the pipes in such a way as to improve fall and therefore drainage, as well as allowing the three main culprits, such as the sink, shower, and basin to all be discharged into separate pipes initially to minimize the chance of having sink waste water coming up into the shower base. At least until the tank, if you can call it that, was full to overflowing.
The other problem will be to try and instal some sort of traps to minimize any unwanted odors coming back into the van.
If anyone can think of pitfalls to doing it this way I would be pleased to hear about it before I go stupid and destroy the current plumbing setup.
Better still talk me out of doing it. Lol
Cheers, Tom
aussie_paul said
08:32 PM Oct 3, 2015
I believe someone has posted that idea here last year sometime. It looked good.
-- Edited by aussie_paul on Saturday 3rd of October 2015 08:41:52 PM
greyhoundtom said
09:51 AM Oct 4, 2015
Thanks Paul, a lot of great info on that link.
Cheers, Tom
PeterD said
09:26 PM Oct 4, 2015
To fit a grey water tank ....... Or not? -
I use mine for convenience, more than it is needed for self contained sites. It's good to use for lunch stops where dropping sullage would be an embarrassment. I close the stop**** for one night stands in parks rather than run hoses and other minor uses. It's a device that has more uses than being able to stop in self contained only sites. Once you have one of those tanks you will always want one.
ken thomas said
04:32 PM Oct 5, 2015
Easier to get one fitted if buying a new van, and saves the hastles later on
Ken
Baz421 said
04:54 PM Oct 5, 2015
PeterD wrote:
To fit a grey water tank ....... Or not? -
I use mine for convenience, more than it is needed for self contained sites. It's good to use for lunch stops where dropping sullage would be an embarrassment. I close the stop**** for one night stands in parks rather than run hoses and other minor uses. It's a device that has more uses than being able to stop in self contained only sites. Once you have one of those tanks you will always want one.
Agree we use ours similar to Peter. Very useful IMHO.
greyhoundtom said
07:57 PM Oct 5, 2015
Again thanks for the advice guys, and yes it certainly looks like there are other advantages to a grey water tank system that I had not fully considered.
While my health is currently, and I hope temporarily down the drain, it will definitely a project I will tackle ASAP as soon as I'm up to crawling under the van with saw and drill again.
Cheers, Tom
Brenda and Alan said
11:53 AM Oct 6, 2015
We do not have one fitted and weight limits on van preclude fitting. Having said that we have found no need for one in four years of travel. If there is a need of disposing of waste water away from streams or hard stand areas a bucket has served us very well. I have some reservations regarding grey water tanks as waste water released to the ground immediately is not toxic but if stored for sometime and then released, the soup is toxic. Further they would limit how long you could stay at one site unless you periodically emptied them onto the ground anyway.
Grey water tanks also introduce further complications to towing as I see it. An obvious problem is a change in weight distribution as water is transferred from usually front mounted supply to usually rear mounted grey tank. A less obvious problem is if a supply tank is half emptied an the grey tank is half filled weight transfer in corners could cause dangers. We make a point of never travelling with partially filled tanks by either totally emptying or filling one or both tanks before moving on.
In our four years of travelling we have been refused at only one camp site and the simple solution was just to go elsewhere.
Alan
greyhoundtom said
02:13 PM Oct 6, 2015
To date I have been using two 25 liter sealable drums that are emptied as appropriate depending on the circumstances, and while it hasn't happened yet I was getting concerned that the door would slammed shut on more and more low cost and free camps by councils requiring "fully self contained", and most rangers I have spoken to consider that to mean a permenantly fitted grey water tank.
Cheers, Tom
PS believe you me I would much rather leave the plumbing as it is.
JohnR said
10:44 PM Oct 6, 2015
Sorry fellows I just could not help myself.
The pic below was taken at Newman North West WA. The location is the Tourist Information Center "car park". The cost $10- pn with free WFI.
Because of space restrictions under the van, and plumbing pipes running all over the place the thought at this point in time consists of utilizing three sections of 150mm PCV around 1.8 metres long
That gives you about 90 litres. Is that enough capacity?
Or perhaps another question. With two people showering every day, washing up, etc., how long before that capacity is reached?
Whatever van we get, intially won't need grey water storage as we'll stay in caravan parks. But when we do start our "grey nomading" if we wish to take advantage of free camping then this will be an essential requirement.
briche said
02:29 PM Oct 7, 2015
Hi Tom, I fitted the PVC pipe configuration to our van about 12 moths ago and it works well. the length of my pipes is about 2 meters long and using about 150 mm pipes it holds about 40 liters which is enough for short term use. My two tanks are connected together at one one with a breather pipe in the middle of that connection.
One tank is for the kitchen sink while the other is for the shower and toilet hand basin. Connected that for if one fills before I can empty it the flow directs to the second tank. Each tank has a drain tap of it's own. One aspect is that I would not travel too far with tanks part filled or even full if it came to that. I would at the first opportunity stop and drain them for stability's sake.
the actual storage pipes are located around the axel area so as to keep the load on the van as balanced as possible.
I am looking for a low pressure one way valve to instal in the sink line to ensure the smells from the tanks does not bleed back into the van. The other side of the exercise is that it was cheap to do.
hope that helps
Brian
-- Edited by briche on Wednesday 7th of October 2015 02:30:39 PM
-- Edited by briche on Wednesday 7th of October 2015 02:35:06 PM
mjt57 said
02:50 PM Oct 7, 2015
With the sink drain pipe is it possible to fit a conventional S-Bend setup?
A one way valve generally requires backpressure or flow in order to seal or shut off whatever it is that you don't want coming back. I'm not sure how you'd work that in a drainage setup. Hence the question regarding the S-bend.
Sylva said
03:32 PM Oct 7, 2015
In two years of traveling We have need to catch our grey water less than half a dozen times. To do so I brought two 20 letter collapsable plastic water containers and using a bit of pipe contested it to our out let drain. Cost $30 and adds no extra weight. Once full dispose of in either a dump point or down local drains or such.
Never had an issue with local rangers doing it this way.
Sylva.
Wombat 280 said
07:33 PM Oct 7, 2015
Got out of a Free camping guide which may fit the bill . no need to take the entire van to the dump point which makes good sense Worth a thought
With the sink drain pipe is it possible to fit a conventional S-Bend setup?
A one way valve generally requires backpressure or flow in order to seal or shut off whatever it is that you don't want coming back. I'm not sure how you'd work that in a drainage setup. Hence the question regarding the S-bend.
There are some really small profile S bend traps available ... they often use them in small ensuite vanities.
Cupie said
08:21 PM Oct 8, 2015
greyhoundtom wrote:
Thanks Paul, a lot of great info on that link.
Cheers, Tom
Ditto from me.
I had missed that one.
Such a simple idea.
Thanks. (Another job for the 'to do' list)
greyhoundtom said
08:50 PM Oct 8, 2015
Thanks everyone for the great advice, its now on my "must do" list.
Cheers, Tom
KFT said
09:03 PM Oct 9, 2015
There is a "waterless" one way valve that is often used in RV's to stop water surcharging in the shower when you let the sink water go.
It is called a Hepvo valve, available in various sizes from plumbing supplies.
they do work very well too.
frank
greyhoundtom said
08:58 PM Oct 10, 2015
Thanks Frank,
They look like a good idea, but due to cost and availability I may have to see if I can construct something similar that will do the job from locally sourced materials.
Cheers Tom
PeterD said
03:26 PM Oct 12, 2015
If your sink is plumbed in 25 mm black plastic tubing, all you have to do is to put a loop in it. If it is plumbed in stiff plastic pipe then find some plastic tube that will fit over the the pipe. Then cut a piece of the pipe away and insert a loop of the the tubing/hose.
Fuzzball said
09:43 PM Oct 12, 2015
Hi Tom, Be careful of DIY...sometimes, and in this case, you can buy grey water tanks cheaper than you can DIY!
JohnR said
09:10 PM Oct 13, 2015
We are currently in the CBD of Albury NSW parked up in the Sailors/Soldiers/Airman (SS & A Club) car park for an over night stop. Cost is $Nil if you are self contained. That means holding your grey water not like the bloke opposite who has a black hose into the gutter.
Again the benefits of being self contained and the ability to hold your grey water is paramount.
I have watched and been amused with this post that is now 700 + hits and about 21 replies. The need for S traps/non return valves and the numbers thrown up for holding capacities are from people who have no idea. I can recall a post from some one who made the quote " if you have an option on your van or accessory those with these options accept it for what it is and the benefits. Those that don't like to make an argument in the negative".
I have attached pics of the original set up and will provide details below. The system has been in place for 18 months without any issues. We are full time "on the road". however we do house sitting so the van will sit for periods of a month or so. In this instance the caps are removed to air the system.
You require 2 x 150ml x 185 lengths of sewerage pipe.
Plus caps/plus taps/plus plumbing software.
The calculation is 32 litres per pipe in total 64litres. (You need to do the maths) which confirms??????
The back pipe is for the shower only and does NOT connect to the front pipe.
The front pipe collects the sink water at one point and the vanity at another point
When emptying we use clear plastic hosing that is attached to the taps and enters our grey water hose.
These is a rarity as most times we either enter direct to a dump point or at a location suitable for dropping grey water.
The $$$$$ savings, the ability to be self contained and the need to leave "no trace" makes our system unique and unequal when looking at commercial sold grey water systems.
Thanks JR it looks a clean and relatively simple system.
One of problems that I have only recently become aware of with using the sewer pipe method of creating grey water holding tanks, is the difficulty in determining just when the capacity is used up and that it needs to be emptied urgently.
The chance of it overfilling and suddenly backing up into the shower base, or not being able to empty the sink could become a reality if there is no reliable warning system.
Unlike a motor home, with a caravan when fully set up including the awning and other bits and pieces, it could be a real pain to suddenly have to pack up to take the van to the nearest dump point and empty the tanks.
With an eighty liter water tank modified for grey water use there is more capacity and reliable commercially available systems to determine the tanks volume.
Right now I'm back to scratching my head again. Lol
dorian said
08:38 AM Oct 15, 2015
JohnR wrote:
You require 2 x 150ml x 185 lengths of sewerage pipe.
Plus caps/plus taps/plus plumbing software.
The calculation is 32 litres per pipe in total 64litres. (You need to do the maths) which confirms??????
I know it has been discussed before but in view of a certain RV organization that shall nameless, and their ambitions in regard to camping areas, and the requirements that more and more councils are likely to put in place for those camping within their domain to be completely self contained, I am once again seriously looking at installing something to contain the grey water if required by the circumstances.
I believe someone has posted that idea here last year sometime. It looked good.
http://thegreynomads.activeboard.com/t57918551/grey-water-storage/
Aussie Paul.
-- Edited by aussie_paul on Saturday 3rd of October 2015 08:41:52 PM
Cheers, Tom
To fit a grey water tank ....... Or not? -
I use mine for convenience, more than it is needed for self contained sites. It's good to use for lunch stops where dropping sullage would be an embarrassment. I close the stop**** for one night stands in parks rather than run hoses and other minor uses. It's a device that has more uses than being able to stop in self contained only sites. Once you have one of those tanks you will always want one.
Ken
Agree we use ours similar to Peter. Very useful IMHO.
While my health is currently, and I hope temporarily down the drain, it will definitely a project I will tackle ASAP as soon as I'm up to crawling under the van with saw and drill again.
Cheers, Tom
We do not have one fitted and weight limits on van preclude fitting. Having said that we have found no need for one in four years of travel. If there is a need of disposing of waste water away from streams or hard stand areas a bucket has served us very well. I have some reservations regarding grey water tanks as waste water released to the ground immediately is not toxic but if stored for sometime and then released, the soup is toxic. Further they would limit how long you could stay at one site unless you periodically emptied them onto the ground anyway.
Grey water tanks also introduce further complications to towing as I see it. An obvious problem is a change in weight distribution as water is transferred from usually front mounted supply to usually rear mounted grey tank. A less obvious problem is if a supply tank is half emptied an the grey tank is half filled weight transfer in corners could cause dangers. We make a point of never travelling with partially filled tanks by either totally emptying or filling one or both tanks before moving on.
In our four years of travelling we have been refused at only one camp site and the simple solution was just to go elsewhere.
Alan
Cheers, Tom
PS believe you me I would much rather leave the plumbing as it is.
Sorry fellows I just could not help myself.
The pic below was taken at Newman North West WA. The location is the Tourist Information Center "car park". The cost $10- pn with free WFI.
Peter D is the only one on the money.
That gives you about 90 litres. Is that enough capacity?
Or perhaps another question. With two people showering every day, washing up, etc., how long before that capacity is reached?
Whatever van we get, intially won't need grey water storage as we'll stay in caravan parks. But when we do start our "grey nomading" if we wish to take advantage of free camping then this will be an essential requirement.
Hi Tom, I fitted the PVC pipe configuration to our van about 12 moths ago and it works well. the length of my pipes is about 2 meters long and using about 150 mm pipes it holds about 40 liters which is enough for short term use. My two tanks are connected together at one one with a breather pipe in the middle of that connection.
One tank is for the kitchen sink while the other is for the shower and toilet hand basin. Connected that for if one fills before I can empty it the flow directs to the second tank. Each tank has a drain tap of it's own. One aspect is that I would not travel too far with tanks part filled or even full if it came to that. I would at the first opportunity stop and drain them for stability's sake.
the actual storage pipes are located around the axel area so as to keep the load on the van as balanced as possible.
I am looking for a low pressure one way valve to instal in the sink line to ensure the smells from the tanks does not bleed back into the van. The other side of the exercise is that it was cheap to do.
hope that helps
Brian
-- Edited by briche on Wednesday 7th of October 2015 02:30:39 PM
-- Edited by briche on Wednesday 7th of October 2015 02:35:06 PM
A one way valve generally requires backpressure or flow in order to seal or shut off whatever it is that you don't want coming back. I'm not sure how you'd work that in a drainage setup. Hence the question regarding the S-bend.
Never had an issue with local rangers doing it this way.
Sylva.
Got out of a Free camping guide which may fit the bill . no need to take the entire van to the dump point which makes good sense Worth a thought
There are some really small profile S bend traps available ... they often use them in small ensuite vanities.
Ditto from me.
I had missed that one.
Such a simple idea.
Thanks. (Another job for the 'to do' list)
Cheers, Tom
It is called a Hepvo valve, available in various sizes from plumbing supplies.
they do work very well too.
frank
They look like a good idea, but due to cost and availability I may have to see if I can construct something similar that will do the job from locally sourced materials.
Cheers Tom
We are currently in the CBD of Albury NSW parked up in the Sailors/Soldiers/Airman (SS & A Club) car park for an over night stop. Cost is $Nil if you are self contained. That means holding your grey water not like the bloke opposite who has a black hose into the gutter.
Again the benefits of being self contained and the ability to hold your grey water is paramount.
I have watched and been amused with this post that is now 700 + hits and about 21 replies. The need for S traps/non return valves and the numbers thrown up for holding capacities are from people who have no idea. I can recall a post from some one who made the quote " if you have an option on your van or accessory those with these options accept it for what it is and the benefits. Those that don't like to make an argument in the negative".
I have attached pics of the original set up and will provide details below. The system has been in place for 18 months without any issues. We are full time "on the road". however we do house sitting so the van will sit for periods of a month or so. In this instance the caps are removed to air the system.
You require 2 x 150ml x 185 lengths of sewerage pipe.
Plus caps/plus taps/plus plumbing software.
The calculation is 32 litres per pipe in total 64litres. (You need to do the maths) which confirms??????
The back pipe is for the shower only and does NOT connect to the front pipe.
The front pipe collects the sink water at one point and the vanity at another point
When emptying we use clear plastic hosing that is attached to the taps and enters our grey water hose.
These is a rarity as most times we either enter direct to a dump point or at a location suitable for dropping grey water.
The $$$$$ savings, the ability to be self contained and the need to leave "no trace" makes our system unique and unequal when looking at commercial sold grey water systems.
JR
One of problems that I have only recently become aware of with using the sewer pipe method of creating grey water holding tanks, is the difficulty in determining just when the capacity is used up and that it needs to be emptied urgently.
The chance of it overfilling and suddenly backing up into the shower base, or not being able to empty the sink could become a reality if there is no reliable warning system.
Unlike a motor home, with a caravan when fully set up including the awning and other bits and pieces, it could be a real pain to suddenly have to pack up to take the van to the nearest dump point and empty the tanks.
With an eighty liter water tank modified for grey water use there is more capacity and reliable commercially available systems to determine the tanks volume.
Right now I'm back to scratching my head again. Lol
Google's calculator can do it for you:
http://www.google.com.au/search?q=2+x+pi+x+(150+mm+/+2)+squared+x+185+cm