Tuesday we drove from Exmouth to Coral Bay. Arriving after dark, I rang the caravan parks and was told they were fully booked out. Left Coral Bay and about a kilometre out of town is a large cleared area. I pulled in there and started cooking tea. Then we were going to decide what we were going to do.
Half way through cooking tea, someone started pounding on our van. Not knocking, pounding as if they were trying to break the door down.
I opened the door and guess who. The local hot shot ranger. He had no ID displayed. " you can't camp here"
I'm cooking tea.
"I'll be back in an hour you had better be gone or its $100 per person fine. There's a 24hour stop 57kms down the road.
I said I'm too tired to drive.
So we finished tea and headed off down the road at 75 kmph dodging Roos by the dozens. The stop at Lyndon was actually 66kms down the road.
Wednesday I rang his boss at Carnarvon shire and explained what had happened.
She said he had no right to do that. She wants me to put it in an email explaining what happened.
I also told her councils and shires cannot issue fines.
In the 1988 referendum the Australian public were asked to vote whether local governing bodies should be given the power to issue fines. Wisely the majority of people voted no. So the state governments gave them power to do so. By doing this the state governments broke the constitutional laws.
When this happens constitutional over rules state laws.
She said she didn't realise this and is going to check the laws.
You drive down the road and see these big blue signs.
"DONT DRIVE TIRED"
"DRIVE SAFELY"
Maybe they would be better of spending the money educating the Rangers instead of wasting it on pretty blue signs.
Santa said
09:10 AM Sep 20, 2015
Much ado about nothing here.
In all of our years of traveling around Oz have yet to incur the wrath of a ranger.
Seems to me a failure to plan ahead "Arriving after dark, I rang the caravan parks and was told they were fully booked out" I'm not surprised, you could have called much earlier, if no vacancy, make other arrangements.
Pulling up after dark 1 KM from any town is bound to draw unwanted attention.
Then to feel the need to escalate it and start quoting the constitution and state laws
It's all about common sense.
Ozzie_Traveller said
10:10 AM Sep 20, 2015
G'day all
I can see both side of the discussion above - tho I feel that the response above is a bit harsh
We have been caught out several times via 'circumstances beyond our control' and found ourselves caught like the OP camper
Mutt - local government / councils have every 'right' to make by-laws to assist the "comfortable living" of the residents of the shire
They have had laws relating to vagrancy - sleeping around & in cars - for many years. Today's problems are that those laws are now moving out to include backpackers and us vanners & campers with self-contained vehicles, and strangely, we don't like being compared with those others :)
Having been in the Exmouth / Coral Bay area only a couple of weeks ago, I know full well the lack of phone coverage along the coast, but it does come & go along the highway, as I was on the internet most nights. So a phone call might have been possible - tho you would also have needed kryptonite vision to know that local van parks were over-full
It might have been easier to stay the night in the car park behind the shops - there the ranger would have found you, but would also know the parks 'full' status too.
ps- you cannot be compelled to move on by anyone other than a police officer, who then has the authority to book you for non-adherance to a legal order. Then you have the right in court to challenge the police officer to 'show cause'. Lengthy, expensive and not always helpful. A town ranger's legal authority includes booking offenders who are breaking local laws, but you cannot be made to move on [unless there is an obvious danger to you eg: fire / flood etc.]
Phil
Casualkev said
11:09 AM Sep 20, 2015
Santa I know you have to plan your toy run each year to the smallest detail, but I would much rather be able to change my mind on any route that I choose. As for the ranger what a jerk!
Kev
03_Troopy said
11:55 AM Sep 20, 2015
Santa wrote:
Much ado about nothing here.
In all of our years of traveling around Oz have yet to incur the wrath of a ranger.
Seems to me a failure to plan ahead "Arriving after dark, I rang the caravan parks and was told they were fully booked out" I'm not surprised, you could have called much earlier, if no vacancy, make other arrangements.
Pulling up after dark 1 KM from any town is bound to draw unwanted attention.
Then to feel the need to escalate it and start quoting the constitution and state laws
It's all about common sense.
And you feel the need to pontificate like some sort of keyboard w----r
Santa said
12:02 PM Sep 20, 2015
Not at all Kev, we simply plan ahead a little, no big deal.
As for the ranger being a jerk, we have only heard one side of the story, people tend to react in the same manner they are treated, Mutt said he felt the ranger pounded on his van a little vigorously and I'm sure he reacted in a similar manner, as the old saying goes, "You can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar"
Yes we were in the Coral Bay area about 12 months ago, managed to navigate through it without incurring anyone's wrath.
wendyv said
01:49 PM Sep 20, 2015
Places like Coral Bay, Exmouth and Denham/Monkey Mia have long tourist seasons - almost year round now.
They also are pretty keen to avoid the backpacker brigade free camping and leaving the usual mess, especially in roadside areas without toilets. For that, I for one, am grateful.
It surely is common sense to phone ahead and see if a booking can be made - or at least get an idea of whether rocking up late in the day is likely to result in a vacancy being available.
We do not like being tied to a tight schedule either. But the reality is that there are an increasing number of places in Australia now, that are full early in the day. In our recent times at Lightning Ridge, we saw travellers being turned away from the park we were in, every day; they had not booked ahead and they had to have power.
DMaxer said
01:50 PM Sep 20, 2015
I think you might be a little bit misled on that Constitutional interpretation Mutt. A couple of years ago some misguided soul made a big deal out of a council parking fine in a Melbourne Magistrates Court and came off second best. Councils can issue infringement notices, they are regulatory matters like littering, not covering your load, savage dog etc.
Rangers have control over national parks, local parks and council property, such as road sides and some secondary roads.
Trust me, I don't know as much about caravans as most on this site, but I am qualified to speak about the law.
I don't know if I have just been lucky, but in my travels over the last year or so I have not met any rangers that have given me any grief. I offer them a cuppa and find that the information I receive from them really valuable. I am glad we have them. Imagine if we all just made up our own rules as we went along, would look a bit like Europe at present.
Mutt said
05:54 PM Sep 20, 2015
I didn't quote any laws to him. All I said to him was "I'm in the middle of cooking tea. Then we will leave even though I am tired"
I rang his boss in carnarvon and she said he had no right to act the way he did.
I was very polite to him(even though I felt like bashing him with a baseball bat that I don't own).
His response was "you will be gone when I come back in an hour or its $100 a head. Wonder if that included the cats.
Baz421 said
06:22 PM Sep 20, 2015
HERE'S A POSSIBLE SOLUTION
We have at times laid up in an industrial area, sometimes we planed (to pick up a solar part) and others by coincidence/lucky find.
ADVANTAGES - No one seems to care and the security guys look out for you making the stop even safer.
Plus if you park in a private area/driveway the local regulations may not be so obvious as to attract a ranger.
Another 2 cents worth.
I'll duck my head now as someone won't like this,,, who bloody cares eh.
JohnR said
07:32 PM Sep 20, 2015
Sounds like the attitude of the "Ranger" was a bit over the top. However, we were there in the past month or so in the opposite direction. We free camped at Minilya Bridge and phoned both caravan parks at Coral Bay to check availability of powered & unpowered sites. Managed to get a mix of unpowered and powered. I did note that there were signs on the parameter of both Coral Bay and Ex-Mouth stating that camping was only allowed in the designated areas and that fines would apply if you chose other wise.
JohnR
Phillipn said
07:46 PM Sep 20, 2015
What, no ID. Was he the manager or the owner of the local caravan park? That was done a few years ago by a caravan park owner at Mossman.
Mutt said
08:39 PM Sep 20, 2015
I rang the Rangers boss and described his appearance and he said he owned the business of snorkling with the manta rays. She said to me "that is Colin".
Well he lost the business of us three.
Phillipn said
10:10 PM Sep 20, 2015
Mutt wrote:
I rang the Rangers boss and described his appearance and he said he owned the business of snorkling with the manta rays. She said to me "that is Colin". Well he lost the business of us three.
If Colin had half a brain he would let them camp in his yard, instead of chasing business away.
Aus-Kiwi said
11:24 PM Sep 20, 2015
I would finish my tea and move to another place .. Preferably gov owned ..
Your not camped if your legally parked ..
Rock said
07:33 PM Sep 21, 2015
Stick to your toys Santa. Hope the kids behave themselves with 12 months of planning, documented and presented. :/
JackieP said
11:20 PM Sep 23, 2015
i guess you have been pretty lucky if this is the first time you have had rangers knocking on your door for not following the rules of free camping. Most places seem to have the rule that no free camping is allowed within 20 Klm of towns and i have seen you camped well within town limits on several occassions.
Mutt said
09:19 AM Sep 24, 2015
When I spoke to the lady boss in charge of the Rangers she said parking bays with the blue P on them and rest area signs are main road department and nothing to do with the Shires. We park in these and have no problems. No one comes near us. Usually the first parking bay is within about 5klms of the town.
dorian said
09:33 AM Sep 24, 2015
What is the difference between camping and parking?
If I drive my car to the beach and spend the whole day there, nobody would object. In fact the local beach has a car parking area precisely for that purpose. If I now do the same thing with a motorhome, without rolling out the awning, would I be treated any differently?
Ondabeach said
10:04 AM Sep 24, 2015
It's a big grey area Dorian, but it was brought up in another thread a few months ago in relation to rest stops in NSW, and in that case the official word from the RMS is that camping is defined as more than 24 hours. Unfortuantely, all of the various authorities around the country would have their own interpretation, and most probably don't have it documented at all.
But in the situation you describe, no, you wouldn't be treated any differently unless your vehicle was so long that it was a danger or inconvenience to others.
Much ado about nothing here.
In all of our years of traveling around Oz have yet to incur the wrath of a ranger.
Seems to me a failure to plan ahead "Arriving after dark, I rang the caravan parks and was told they were fully booked out" I'm not surprised, you could have called much earlier, if no vacancy, make other arrangements.
Pulling up after dark 1 KM from any town is bound to draw unwanted attention.
Then to feel the need to escalate it and start quoting the constitution and state laws
It's all about common sense.
I can see both side of the discussion above - tho I feel that the response above is a bit harsh
We have been caught out several times via 'circumstances beyond our control' and found ourselves caught like the OP camper
Mutt - local government / councils have every 'right' to make by-laws to assist the "comfortable living" of the residents of the shire
They have had laws relating to vagrancy - sleeping around & in cars - for many years. Today's problems are that those laws are now moving out to include backpackers and us vanners & campers with self-contained vehicles, and strangely, we don't like being compared with those others :)
Having been in the Exmouth / Coral Bay area only a couple of weeks ago, I know full well the lack of phone coverage along the coast, but it does come & go along the highway, as I was on the internet most nights. So a phone call might have been possible - tho you would also have needed kryptonite vision to know that local van parks were over-full
It might have been easier to stay the night in the car park behind the shops - there the ranger would have found you, but would also know the parks 'full' status too.
ps- you cannot be compelled to move on by anyone other than a police officer, who then has the authority to book you for non-adherance to a legal order. Then you have the right in court to challenge the police officer to 'show cause'. Lengthy, expensive and not always helpful. A town ranger's legal authority includes booking offenders who are breaking local laws, but you cannot be made to move on [unless there is an obvious danger to you eg: fire / flood etc.]
Phil
Kev
And you feel the need to pontificate like some sort of keyboard w----r
Not at all Kev, we simply plan ahead a little, no big deal.
As for the ranger being a jerk, we have only heard one side of the story, people tend to react in the same manner they are treated, Mutt said he felt the ranger pounded on his van a little vigorously and I'm sure he reacted in a similar manner, as the old saying goes, "You can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar"
Yes we were in the Coral Bay area about 12 months ago, managed to navigate through it without incurring anyone's wrath.
They also are pretty keen to avoid the backpacker brigade free camping and leaving the usual mess, especially in roadside areas without toilets. For that, I for one, am grateful.
It surely is common sense to phone ahead and see if a booking can be made - or at least get an idea of whether rocking up late in the day is likely to result in a vacancy being available.
We do not like being tied to a tight schedule either. But the reality is that there are an increasing number of places in Australia now, that are full early in the day. In our recent times at Lightning Ridge, we saw travellers being turned away from the park we were in, every day; they had not booked ahead and they had to have power.
I think you might be a little bit misled on that Constitutional interpretation Mutt. A couple of years ago some misguided soul made a big deal out of a council parking fine in a Melbourne Magistrates Court and came off second best. Councils can issue infringement notices, they are regulatory matters like littering, not covering your load, savage dog etc.
Rangers have control over national parks, local parks and council property, such as road sides and some secondary roads.
Trust me, I don't know as much about caravans as most on this site, but I am qualified to speak about the law.
I don't know if I have just been lucky, but in my travels over the last year or so I have not met any rangers that have given me any grief. I offer them a cuppa and find that the information I receive from them really valuable. I am glad we have them. Imagine if we all just made up our own rules as we went along, would look a bit like Europe at present.
HERE'S A POSSIBLE SOLUTION
We have at times laid up in an industrial area, sometimes we planed (to pick up a solar part) and others by coincidence/lucky find.
ADVANTAGES - No one seems to care and the security guys look out for you making the stop even safer.
Plus if you park in a private area/driveway the local regulations may not be so obvious as to attract a ranger.
Another 2 cents worth.
I'll duck my head now as someone won't like this,,, who bloody cares eh.
Sounds like the attitude of the "Ranger" was a bit over the top. However, we were there in the past month or so in the opposite direction. We free camped at Minilya Bridge and phoned both caravan parks at Coral Bay to check availability of powered & unpowered sites. Managed to get a mix of unpowered and powered. I did note that there were signs on the parameter of both Coral Bay and Ex-Mouth stating that camping was only allowed in the designated areas and that fines would apply if you chose other wise.
JohnR
What, no ID. Was he the manager or the owner of the local caravan park? That was done a few years ago by a caravan park owner at Mossman.
If Colin had half a brain he would let them camp in his yard, instead of chasing business away.
Your not camped if your legally parked ..
If I drive my car to the beach and spend the whole day there, nobody would object. In fact the local beach has a car parking area precisely for that purpose. If I now do the same thing with a motorhome, without rolling out the awning, would I be treated any differently?
It's a big grey area Dorian, but it was brought up in another thread a few months ago in relation to rest stops in NSW, and in that case the official word from the RMS is that camping is defined as more than 24 hours. Unfortuantely, all of the various authorities around the country would have their own interpretation, and most probably don't have it documented at all.
But in the situation you describe, no, you wouldn't be treated any differently unless your vehicle was so long that it was a danger or inconvenience to others.