As posted in our introduction post, we're new to the Grey Nomad thing. In fact, we, or rather I, are just grey...
Anyway, we've been looking around at vans, plenty to choose from, all with different towing specs. That in itself is confusing enough til we started looking at the vehicles.
Initial criteria is based on advertised towing capacity. Eg. Prado is 2.5t, Pajero is 3t and Jeep Grand Cherokee is 3.5t, same as a Landcruiser 200 series.
Then we discovered that there are also ball weights to consider.
Yesterday we took a 2015 Pajero GLS for a test drive. Today I'm browsing the specs. It has different towball rates and recommends ride levellers or whatever they're called for anything over 135kg. Yet the specs say, 150kg as a weight by itself. Second sentence in the spec sheet says that vans under 2.2t have a towball limit of 250kg.
Very confusing.
My wife was reading a sad and sorry saga of a Toyota dealer in QLD who was sold a Prado. He was assured that it would tow whatever he wanted up to the 2.5t rated towing weight, but either deliberately or unintentially failed to tell him about ball weights, ATM weight and so on, which made the van that be bought untowable by the Prado. It went to court, to QLD's consumer affairs, which in typical public service fashion wouldn't help him (what's the point of the authority, then?).
So, yeah, we want to be careful about this.
So, L O N G story short, what are people's views of the above mentioned vehicles for towing? As for other suggestions, there are of course, the Ford Rangers, Nissan Navaras and so on, but we would rather stick with wagon based vehicles.
Thanks.
signwilson said
03:07 PM Sep 12, 2015
We tow with and absolutely love our 100 series 4.2 turbo diesel landcruiser 3,500kg 350kg ball weight. Owned a Jeep once never again biggest unreliable piece of junk ever supposed to have the same tow rate as the cruiser not even close pulled the rear subframe to bits, parts take for ever to get.
villatranquilla said
04:05 PM Sep 12, 2015
Don't believe the weights listed on the caravan compliance plate - ask for a weigh bridge ticket for confirmation. Some vans will have the ball weight listed on the compliance plate (some don't) but it is usually for an empty van - that's been our experience
signwilson said
06:06 PM Sep 12, 2015
weights on caravan compliance plates are definitely sometimes not accurate mine was out by a considerable amount. As said get it weighed I had to change my suspension and water tanks to suit.
deverall11 said
06:12 PM Sep 12, 2015
Landcruiser 200 series, 3.5t towing capacity 350kg on the ball. If it's over the top now, you've got room to move later should you decide to upgrade your van. Plus it tow extremely well and give goo fuel consumption. Did a run from Tin Can Bay to Port Macquarie (200km return) not towing ARB bullbar just over 10l/100km at speed limit. Towing our 3t van we average under 16l/100km. And it is very comfortable.
Good luck
Larry
Casualkev said
06:34 PM Sep 12, 2015
I've only known one person with a jeep 2009 model nothing but troulbes and little or no support and long wait for spares also a lot of mechanical and electrical issues with newer Cherokees, in short I wouldn't touch one with a forty foot pole! Excellent advertising program though!
Kev
dazren said
07:48 PM Sep 12, 2015
May i suggest, do not try and ''pick both'' at the same time, ?? Either pick your Van, and buy Vehicle to suit, -- Or pick your Vehicle and Buy Van to siut
mjt57 said
08:32 PM Sep 12, 2015
Thanks folks.
We have a few vans which are short listed. Mostly Jayco Sterling 21' rigs. Their advertised weights are under the Pajero and Jeep specs but tow ball weights are rarely mentioned. One of them said that its "255 kg or thereabouts". So, I'm not sure what to do.
With weighbridge certificates do they identify the van being weighed?
And will the vendors be accomodating?
I'm starting to worry now. If it wasn't for my wife being super keen to take up the lifestyle I'd be more inclined to spend the dough on airfares, motels and hire cars. Or update the motorbike for long distance touring.
Finally, getting a Landcruiser is out. I don't have the finances for a new one. And I'm not interested in older ones as their used prices are still high.
Hey Jim said
11:43 PM Sep 12, 2015
Hi Martin,
Before you decide on a tow truck look at the GX 200 landcruiser TTD 4.5 V8. Way cheaper then GXL if you shop towards the end of the year (Late December Settled by 31st) $10,000 below the GXL.
I did my home work in full and went loaded with my laptop to the dealers in Dec 2012. Most GX models are sold in the rural areas. I found one only in Sydney and they couldn't move it. Now they sell heaps to GN's because of the mining down turn.
I brought ours for my work through the week, with the view of long term retirement next year.
Barn doors are the bees knees. Second row seats come out (8 x bolts Total) = 2 cubes of space with the cargo barrier positioned behind driver / passenger seats. Full rubber floors. No map lights. 138lt fuel for towing as standard. 650 ponies / 195kw. Six speed auto sport shift transmission.
The added bonus is it tows in S5 overdrive.
Same transmission and motor as ALL....... the higher spec models.
I looked at the Prado 3lt TD auto four pots for $61,000 D/W. $10,000 extra put us in the 200 GX We figure if we get 20 years into retirement it makes sense to drive / tow with ponies in reserve.
We will keep this one for twenty years. My old Prado V6 petrol clocked up 455,000km over 15years and never missed a beat. BUT. We needed to go Diesel for the long term towing.
You do a test drive and you will see what I mean.
If you come down a bit on the van, you will close the gap! We love our GX , and the big snorkel comes with it, as standard.
Regards Jim & Lambie
It's like having a Troopie inside with coil suspension plus the extra turbo for 650 ponies.
I have a question about the L/C. It has a payload of 710 kg. So with 138 kgs fuel, a tow ball weight of say 250 kgs plus driver and passenger at say 160 kgs, this only leaves 152 kgs of cargo, assuming there are no extra options fitted. (Most of this would be used up with a boat launcher and tinnie on the roof)
I get that you save a bit more weight by taking out the rear seats but it still seems a small payload if you are to be on the road full time. How do you manage or am I making an error in my calculations?
mjt57 said
08:17 AM Sep 13, 2015
Firstly, Hey Jim, as much as we'd love a Landcruiser, even at $70k it's nearly $20k over our budget. Mid-50s is probably the best that we can do. Otherwise, we'd end up towing an old Millard or something with it.
Nimrod, I thought that the Lancruiser's ball weight was 350kg, not 250kg. Will have to check.
Hey Jim said
09:15 AM Sep 13, 2015
Hi Martin & David,
Yes the towball weight is 350Kg.
We load the Cruiser with all the bulky gear in the back. With barn doors we can open both doors with the boat on.( Our old Prado was A pain with the single door). I have measured the new van and has same clearance as well. The new van, Jayco journey outback 17.55 semi off road with an ensuit, Has a tare Weight empty 1984kg and ball weight of 170kg at this point in time.
With the barn doors open I can load A FULL sized pallet in the back Its that roomie.It fits our life style like a glove. Best of all I can climb in the back and just use a dust pan and damp sponge to wipe it clean ready to travel.
We are not on the road full time, we are home based. And will do up to six month trips when retired fully. We are cutting back next July to two days per week max, for a few years yet. Or till we get sick of working Total.
Regards Jim & Lambie
-- Edited by Hey Jim on Sunday 13th of September 2015 06:46:54 PM
PeterD said
10:26 PM Sep 13, 2015
Most of the Asian vehicles have a ball weight of 10% of their towing weight. The Pajero is the odd one out. When you load the tug you have to allow for the ball weight of the van if you are using WDH. The load you can put in or on the tug is the weight of all the accessories you install, the weight of the passengers, the weight of the fuel in the tank (less than the weight of the 10 litres of fuel when the tare weight is measured,) the ball load and then the weight of the disposable load you add after all the former. This must not exceed the difference between the GVM and the tare weight in the vehicles handbook.
If you are not using WDH then the lever effect of hanging the van on the ball will load the rear axle far more than the ball weight. You can work this out by applying the principles of levers. The increased total weight will be the be the distance of the ball from the front axle centre line divided by the wheel base. For instance if your wheel base is 4 metres and the distance of the ball from the front axle is 6 metres then the van will impost a weight of 150% of its ball weight on the rear axle. As most of the total loading of a vehicle is taken by the rear axle then you must use this increased weight as part of the load or you will overload the rear axle. If you are towing with a Nissan then this increased loading is worked out for you (that is the varying GVMs listed in the handbook for the differing ball weights.) With other vehicles it is up o you to do your calculations.
When it comes to the van weights, it's the ATM figure that is the important one. For a first time van tower I would recommend you select a van with an ATM or no more than 80% of the to vehicles maximum towing figure. Also attempt to select a van that will load up with a ball weight of close to 10% of the ATM. Just remember that loading the van generally increases the ball weight, most vans will load with more than 10% of the added weight of the load on the ball.
mjt57 said
02:17 PM Sep 14, 2015
PeterD wrote:
When it comes to the van weights, it's the ATM figure that is the important one. For a first time van tower I would recommend you select a van with an ATM or no more than 80% of the to vehicles maximum towing figure. Also attempt to select a van that will load up with a ball weight of close to 10% of the ATM. Just remember that loading the van generally increases the ball weight, most vans will load with more than 10% of the added weight of the load on the ball.
So, for example, if we go with the Jeep (3.5t) then it can tow say, 2.8t. 10 percent of that is 280kg, which is about 30 kg over that of the Jeep's towball weight limit which I think is 250kg.
One van has an ATM of around 2.4t. That would equate to 240kg ball weight.
What happens if you load the van up more towards the rear? Will that cause stability problems?
Brisand said
07:19 PM Sep 14, 2015
I own A 2014 grand cherokee and have absolutely no complaints, I spoke with dozens of Jeep owners in QLD at various parks all were very happy, where do all these crap reports come from.
mjt57 said
10:59 AM Sep 15, 2015
Brisand wrote:
I own A 2014 grand cherokee and have absolutely no complaints, I spoke with dozens of Jeep owners in QLD at various parks all were very happy, where do all these crap reports come from.
Brisand, I'm not concerned with these "reports". I know at least 4 people personally, in person and first hand who own them. Two recently did a round Oz trip, no issues. A third regularly tows his 22' boat to places like Narooma, Bermagui and so on, again with no issues. He also owns a diesel Pajero. It tows OK but he says that the Jeep is better.
Anyway, back to the topic, what do you tow with yours?
Thanks
Martin
Gus1949 said
04:01 PM Sep 15, 2015
You spend a lot of time living (i.e. sitting in and moving about) in a van so it has to work for you, sadly everyone I know with vans has had at least three before they found one that works for them so think it through carefully.
As posted in our introduction post, we're new to the Grey Nomad thing. In fact, we, or rather I, are just grey...
Anyway, we've been looking around at vans, plenty to choose from, all with different towing specs. That in itself is confusing enough til we started looking at the vehicles.
Initial criteria is based on advertised towing capacity. Eg. Prado is 2.5t, Pajero is 3t and Jeep Grand Cherokee is 3.5t, same as a Landcruiser 200 series.
Then we discovered that there are also ball weights to consider.
Yesterday we took a 2015 Pajero GLS for a test drive. Today I'm browsing the specs. It has different towball rates and recommends ride levellers or whatever they're called for anything over 135kg. Yet the specs say, 150kg as a weight by itself. Second sentence in the spec sheet says that vans under 2.2t have a towball limit of 250kg.
Very confusing.
My wife was reading a sad and sorry saga of a Toyota dealer in QLD who was sold a Prado. He was assured that it would tow whatever he wanted up to the 2.5t rated towing weight, but either deliberately or unintentially failed to tell him about ball weights, ATM weight and so on, which made the van that be bought untowable by the Prado. It went to court, to QLD's consumer affairs, which in typical public service fashion wouldn't help him (what's the point of the authority, then?).
So, yeah, we want to be careful about this.
So, L O N G story short, what are people's views of the above mentioned vehicles for towing? As for other suggestions, there are of course, the Ford Rangers, Nissan Navaras and so on, but we would rather stick with wagon based vehicles.
Thanks.
Good luck
Larry
Kev
May i suggest, do not try and ''pick both'' at the same time, ?? Either pick your Van, and buy Vehicle to suit, -- Or pick your Vehicle and Buy Van to siut
We have a few vans which are short listed. Mostly Jayco Sterling 21' rigs. Their advertised weights are under the Pajero and Jeep specs but tow ball weights are rarely mentioned. One of them said that its "255 kg or thereabouts". So, I'm not sure what to do.
With weighbridge certificates do they identify the van being weighed?
And will the vendors be accomodating?
I'm starting to worry now. If it wasn't for my wife being super keen to take up the lifestyle I'd be more inclined to spend the dough on airfares, motels and hire cars. Or update the motorbike for long distance touring.
Finally, getting a Landcruiser is out. I don't have the finances for a new one. And I'm not interested in older ones as their used prices are still high.
Hi Martin,
Before you decide on a tow truck look at the GX 200 landcruiser TTD 4.5 V8. Way cheaper then GXL if you shop towards the end of the year (Late December Settled by 31st) $10,000 below the GXL.
I did my home work in full and went loaded with my laptop to the dealers in Dec 2012. Most GX models are sold in the rural areas. I found one only in Sydney and they couldn't move it. Now they sell heaps to GN's because of the mining down turn.
I brought ours for my work through the week, with the view of long term retirement next year.
Barn doors are the bees knees. Second row seats come out (8 x bolts Total) = 2 cubes of space with the cargo barrier positioned behind driver / passenger seats. Full rubber floors. No map lights. 138lt fuel for towing as standard. 650 ponies / 195kw. Six speed auto sport shift transmission.
The added bonus is it tows in S5 overdrive.
Same transmission and motor as ALL....... the higher spec models.
I looked at the Prado 3lt TD auto four pots for $61,000 D/W. $10,000 extra put us in the 200 GX We figure if we get 20 years into retirement it makes sense to drive / tow with ponies in reserve.
We will keep this one for twenty years. My old Prado V6 petrol clocked up 455,000km over 15years and never missed a beat. BUT. We needed to go Diesel for the long term towing.
You do a test drive and you will see what I mean.
If you come down a bit on the van, you will close the gap! We love our GX , and the big snorkel comes with it, as standard.
Regards Jim & Lambie
It's like having a Troopie inside with coil suspension plus the extra turbo for 650 ponies.
A Win Win for us.
www.tradetrucks.com.au/detail/trucks/on-road-trucks/hino/616/153827
Hey Jim,
I have a question about the L/C. It has a payload of 710 kg. So with 138 kgs fuel, a tow ball weight of say 250 kgs plus driver and passenger at say 160 kgs, this only leaves 152 kgs of cargo, assuming there are no extra options fitted. (Most of this would be used up with a boat launcher and tinnie on the roof)
I get that you save a bit more weight by taking out the rear seats but it still seems a small payload if you are to be on the road full time. How do you manage or am I making an error in my calculations?
Nimrod, I thought that the Lancruiser's ball weight was 350kg, not 250kg. Will have to check.
Hi Martin & David,
Yes the towball weight is 350Kg.
We load the Cruiser with all the bulky gear in the back. With barn doors we can open both doors with the boat on.( Our old Prado was A pain with the single door). I have measured the new van and has same clearance as well. The new van, Jayco journey outback 17.55 semi off road with an ensuit, Has a tare Weight empty 1984kg and ball weight of 170kg at this point in time.
With the barn doors open I can load A FULL sized pallet in the back Its that roomie.It fits our life style like a glove. Best of all I can climb in the back and just use a dust pan and damp sponge to wipe it clean ready to travel.
We are not on the road full time, we are home based. And will do up to six month trips when retired fully. We are cutting back next July to two days per week max, for a few years yet. Or till we get sick of working Total.
Regards Jim & Lambie
-- Edited by Hey Jim on Sunday 13th of September 2015 06:46:54 PM
If you are not using WDH then the lever effect of hanging the van on the ball will load the rear axle far more than the ball weight. You can work this out by applying the principles of levers. The increased total weight will be the be the distance of the ball from the front axle centre line divided by the wheel base. For instance if your wheel base is 4 metres and the distance of the ball from the front axle is 6 metres then the van will impost a weight of 150% of its ball weight on the rear axle. As most of the total loading of a vehicle is taken by the rear axle then you must use this increased weight as part of the load or you will overload the rear axle. If you are towing with a Nissan then this increased loading is worked out for you (that is the varying GVMs listed in the handbook for the differing ball weights.) With other vehicles it is up o you to do your calculations.
When it comes to the van weights, it's the ATM figure that is the important one. For a first time van tower I would recommend you select a van with an ATM or no more than 80% of the to vehicles maximum towing figure. Also attempt to select a van that will load up with a ball weight of close to 10% of the ATM. Just remember that loading the van generally increases the ball weight, most vans will load with more than 10% of the added weight of the load on the ball.
So, for example, if we go with the Jeep (3.5t) then it can tow say, 2.8t. 10 percent of that is 280kg, which is about 30 kg over that of the Jeep's towball weight limit which I think is 250kg.
One van has an ATM of around 2.4t. That would equate to 240kg ball weight.
What happens if you load the van up more towards the rear? Will that cause stability problems?
I own A 2014 grand cherokee and have absolutely no complaints, I spoke with dozens of Jeep owners in QLD at various parks all were very happy, where do all these crap reports come from.
Brisand, I'm not concerned with these "reports". I know at least 4 people personally, in person and first hand who own them. Two recently did a round Oz trip, no issues. A third regularly tows his 22' boat to places like Narooma, Bermagui and so on, again with no issues. He also owns a diesel Pajero. It tows OK but he says that the Jeep is better.
Anyway, back to the topic, what do you tow with yours?
Thanks
Martin
You spend a lot of time living (i.e. sitting in and moving about) in a van so it has to work for you, sadly everyone I know with vans has had at least three before they found one that works for them so think it through carefully.
22ft jayco silverline, great combination.