From a "dark" site 4 info. A Traffic Analysis of Windows 10
Some Czech guy did a traffic analysis of data produced by Windows 10, and released his findings the other day.
His primary thesis was that Windows 10 acts more like a terminal than an operating system -- because of the extent of the "cloud" integration, a large portion of the OS functions are almost dependant on remote (Microsoft's) servers.
The amount of collected information, even with strict privacy settings, is quite alarming. Information transmitted All text typed on the keyboard is stored in temporary files, and sent (once per 30 mins) to: oca.telemetry.microsoft.com.nsatc.net pre.footprintpredict.com reports.wes.df.telemetry.microsoft.com There isn't a clear purpose for this, considering there there's no autocorrect/prediction anywhere in the OS.
The implications of this are significant: because this is an OS-level key logger, all the data you're trying to transmit securely is now sitting on some MS server.
This includes passwords and encrypted chats. This also includes the on-screen keyboard, so there is no way to authenticate to a website without MS also getting your password.
Telemetry is sent once per 5 minutes, to: vortex.data.microsoft.com vortex-win.data.microsoft.com telecommand.telemetry.microsoft.com telecommand.telemetry.microsoft.com.nsatc.net oca.telemetry.microsoft.com oca.telemetry.microsoft.com.nsatc.net sqm.telemetry.microsoft.com sqm.telemetry.microsoft.com.nsatc.net You might think that "telemetry" has to do with OS usage or similar... turns out it's telemetry about the user.
For example, typing a phone number anywhere into the Edge browser transmits it to the servers above.
In another example, typing the name of any popular movie into your local file search starts a telemetry process that indexes all media files on your computer and transmits them to: df.telemetry.microsoft.com reports.wes.df.telemetry.microsoft.com cs1.wpc.v0cdn.net vortex-sandbox.data.microsoft.com pre.footprintpredict.com It's hard to imagine any purpose for this other than the obvious piracy crackdown possibilities. When a webcam is first enabled, ~35mb of data gets immediately transmitted to: oca.telemetry.microsoft.com oca.telemetry.microsoft.com.nsatc.net vortex-sandbox.data.microsoft.com i1.services.social.microsoft.com i1.services.social.microsoft.com.nsatc.net Everything that is said into an enabled microphone is immediately transmitted to: oca.telemetry.microsoft.com oca.telemetry.microsoft.com.nsatc.net vortex-sandbox.data.microsoft.com pre.footprintpredict.com i1.services.social.microsoft.com i1.services.social.microsoft.com.nsatc.net telemetry.appex.bing.net telemetry.urs.microsoft.com cs1.wpc.v0cdn.net statsfe1.ws.microsoft.com If this weren't bad enough, this behaviour still occurs after Cortana is fully disabled/uninstalled.
It's speculated that the purpose of this function to build up a massive voice database, then tie those voices to identities, and eventually be able to identify anyone simply by picking up their voice, whether it be a microphone in a public place or a wiretap on a payphone. Interestingly, if Cortana is enabled, the voice is first transcribed to text, then the transcription is sent to: pre.footprintpredict.com reports.wes.df.telemetry.microsoft.com df.telemetry.microsoft.com If Windows is left unattended for ~15 mins, a large volume of traffic starts being transmitted to various servers. This may be the raw audio data, rather than just samples. Other concerns While the initial reflex may be to block all of the above servers via HOSTS, it turns out this won't work: Microsoft has taken the care to hardcode certain IPs, meaning that there is no DNS lookup and no HOSTS consultation.
However, if the above servers are blocked via HOSTS, Windows will pretend to be crippled by continuously throwing errors, while still maintaining data collection in the background.
Other than an increase in errors, HOSTS blocking did not affect the volume, frequency, or rate of data being transmitted. Original article, credit AE News .......................................................
PeterD said
09:30 PM Aug 17, 2015
Weevil, can you please post a link for this info.
greyhoundtom said
09:38 PM Aug 17, 2015
If that is true then that is real scary stuff!
I have been a science fiction fan since I learned to read and this level of surveillance, particularly when you add in the increased levels of video surveillance that is being implemented everywhere, it is right up there with worst case scenarios as predicted in many of the story plots I have read over the years.
Could be true ... but we should keep eyes peeled for confirmation/elaboration praps.
Cheers - John
nimrod said
11:40 PM Aug 17, 2015
Whilst I am not saying that this isn't true, bear in mind that it is one article that has been repeated in many blogs over the web. So, if the number of articles posted are a measure of its authenticity then it must be true - right??????
What is more frightening is this article:
http://www.dhmo.org/facts.html
Sorry if this gives you nightmares
David
Ondabeach said
12:07 AM Aug 18, 2015
What a load of paranoid nonsense... get out there and enjoy your lives people... it's far too short to buy into moronic conspiracy theories.
Dihydrogen Monoxide is the long way to say H2O... AKA the scientific name for WATER!!!!!
Im not one that's into conspiracy theories or paranoid (whos that in the bush over there with a camera LOL), but if true, theres no need to MS to "steal" this info with informed consent by the user.
If such data is and will be gathered, it will be too tempting not to take advantage of it commercially (like smart phones that transmit your location approx. every 20 mins) and then next it will be various govt's enabling themselves to access it for reasons of "national security".
I am on the W10 download list - think I'll wait a bit longer and see what happens meantime. We will know if this is just another urban myth or has some truth to it
Ondabeach said
11:01 AM Aug 18, 2015
It isn't true, it's a complete load of BS. Only a fraction of the data he mentions is uploaded by default, and you can turn all data upload off in settings.
Microsoft's EULAs always state that any data gathered is purely used for product improvement and is not shared with anyone without your consent. MS is one of the biggest companies on the planet with THE biggest customer base, and as such are under the most intense scrutiny of any company anywhere. Even if they had evil intent they would have absolutely no chance of getting away with anything for even a second.
Nimrod, I half suspected that your link the H2O scam site was tongue in cheek... the problem is that there's a scarily large number of people out there that would believe it to be genuine.
Ontos45 said
02:41 PM Aug 18, 2015
Having consulted with my Oracle who checked the chicken guts, says, where there is smoke there is generally fire. Don't trust any of them.
nimrod said
03:12 PM Aug 18, 2015
Hi Steve.
Yes it was to show that myths, without any foundation, can be perpetrated by simply posting an argument "on line" It gets re posted a few times and suddenly has a life of its own, becoming more believable with each retelling. Some people then look at company statements, or similar, and put their own conspiracy interpretation on what it really means in order to support their personal view or to direct traffic to their blog site so that they can sell advertising.
I have thought about the privacy issues over the past few days and would make some observations.
According to Internet World Statistics, there are 3,079,339,857 internet users in the world. Just assuming that each user only has one computer - and I have three, that's 3.08 billion computers. The average of various reports puts the Microsoft market share at 50.83% with Apple at 16.24% and Linux Kernel at 27.28%(includes android) Other 5.65%
That means that there are 1.56 billion computers in the world running Windows.
I think that it is fanciful to think that someone is monitoring all these computers and everything that is done on them every day. The manpower to do this would just about equal the entire adult population of China.
We know that specific web sites are monitored, for example to track terrorist activity, child abuse and certain financial transactions. Personal banking, phone calls and similar records are already able to be accessed by authorized persons, such as police and tax officers and government offices have data sharing arrangements, even internationally. A lot of this information you have to give, there are no options.
However, even these transactions generally need a trigger to focus attention. Otherwise they just remain as information sitting on a data base somewhere.
So what is the increased risk to personal privacy? A lot of people write just about all their personal life on social media sites such as Facebook and even on this forum some people write about their life experiences, whether they are on a state pension or are self funded and where they are or where they are going. Mind you if you have a mobile phone it is possible to track you anyway.
What annoys me about the way things are going is really the unwanted ads that keep appearing. For example, I looked at an on line ad for a Bailey caravan the other day. I really didn't want to buy one but was comparing tare and max weights. The next day, that ad plus others I might be interested in, and these are generally listed at the bottom of the ad you look at, appeared in one of the "information" bands on the on line TV schedule. Now this isn't done by a little man in a dark and dusty office somewhere, it is a data tracker that is embedded in the search engines and is unlikely to be stored for any length of time. It doesn't matter whether you are using Google of Explorer, they both have them. I guess that is the inconvenience we have to suffer for not having to buy the information as we used to do with the weekly TV guides and I am fast learning to just ignore them!
As far as a new operating system goes, it needs to do what I want it to do, be easy to use and is cost effective. I am not planning to break the law so I don't really care whether the system writers are monitoring some of my key strokes. Sure someone could hack the system and steal your passwords as seems to have happened a lot lately. It happens with mobile phone information being intercepted or even supposedly secure computer systems being hacked. Recent highly newsworthy events have been bank's and dating sites.
OK Had my rant and maybe shared my perspective on things
David
Bruce and Bev said
03:48 PM Aug 18, 2015
Hi David
A very well reasoned and put together "rant".
Generally I agree with you (but that person is still in the bushes near me with a camera lol), but we must be vigilant to stop companies and govt's gathering info about individuals simply because they can do so. It wont affect many of us, but it will our kids and their kids in the future.
Perhaps there should be an Ombudsman type office in countries (yeah, I know - it wont ever happen in Russia or China) and that office approves what information can and cannot be gathered by companies and govts (with all the tax avoidance by MS, Google and the like - they can well afford to fund the cost).
nimrod said
05:04 PM Aug 18, 2015
Bruce,
Kids put more personal stuff out there than we would ever do. The generations after me, and I am..........Hurrummph...about ....er...............35.........ish, have few if any secrets
David
03_Troopy said
07:24 PM Aug 18, 2015
If you have nothing to hide, why would you worry?? I/m from the government... I'm here to help you.....
Weevil said
07:37 PM Aug 18, 2015
PeterD wrote:
Weevil, can you please post a link for this info.
Sorry Peter, I received it in an email from someone, this was the only info with it, "From a "dark" site 4 info.."
Not being pc literate, I didn't understand a bit of it but thought others might.
I should have put on the post that it was not verified, so probably BS like some have said....
I don't know if this is what it is talking about, on a link, see;
-- Edited by nimrod on Tuesday 18th of August 2015 08:04:43 PM
rockylizard said
08:28 PM Aug 18, 2015
Gday...
David, that is the same link I found and put up earlier.
It is not the original 'post/URL' that seems to have been included in the OP's email he received. I believe it is to someone who is critical of the original and offers some comments within the article .. and seeks other comments/advice.
I have been unable to find the original story - only comments from 'techo experts' who have varying ideas/comments about the veracity of the "Czech guy's" traffic analysis.
We may never know ... and it all could be quite true. Hopefully the 'settings' in WIN 10 will allow some control of the extent of the 'data collection' we are tolerant with.
cheers - John
Ondabeach said
08:54 PM Aug 18, 2015
C'mon John, you're smarter than that. Next thing you'll be lending credibility to the idiot fodder in nimrod's joke post.
C'mon John, you're smarter than that. Next thing you'll be lending credibility to the idiot fodder in nimrod's joke post.
Gday...
Cheers - John
Murraman said
11:49 PM Aug 18, 2015
Nimrod, Your comments about adds showing up after you check out a website. I looked at an article on Amazon.com to get a price for a mate. I didn't want to buy it just price checking. 30 days later that item is still big and bold every time I go into Faceb##k. I mean give me a break same add day after day and it just sits there. No rotation just one add.
I'm going to give faceb##k a rest for a while as it drives me mad.
Ontos45 said
10:00 AM Aug 19, 2015
Maybe an answer to those concerned.
Important Features at a Glance
Windows 10 wants to give users the easiest possible daily experience and in doing so very rarely forces you to actually read and confirm a security notice. Unfortunately, this simplified approach from Microsoft means much more data is passed onto them than many users would like.
Microsoft uses most data to display personalized information to you that is aimed at making your computer life easier. As an example, Windows 10 can remind you to set off to the airport 30 minutes earlier due to traffic en route. In order to deliver this information to you, however, Windows 10 has to access your calendar entries, your mails (i.e. the airline confirmation email), your location and it has to have access to the internet to get traffic news.
Some services protocol your entire keyboard entries, share your WLAN access data with your facebook contacts or connect your computer without asking permission to a public and potentially unprotected network. While this means that you and your contacts do not have to grapple with complicated WLAN passwords, it also poses a significant security risk.
Decide for yourself how important your comfort is when weighed up with your privacy and how to protect it. O&O ShutUp10 presents you with all important settings in one location you need no previous IT knowledge and there is no need to manually change the Windows 10 system settings.
O&O ShutUp10 is entirely free and does not have to be installed it can be simply run directly and immediately on your PC. And it will not install or download retrospectively unwanted or unnecessary software, like so many other programs do these days!
Ondabeach said
10:57 AM Aug 19, 2015
Please stop posting this misleading garbage guys! You might think you're helping your fellow Grey Nomads but you're not, you're just confusing them. Windows 10 DOES NOT share your connection access data with anyone unless you specifically tell it to in settings. It DOES NOT connect to any network without your permission or your having set it up that way!!! O&O shutup10 is an app site that wants traffic and clicks... which you're helping them to achieve... and it does nothing that you can't do for yourself in settings... and all of the stuff it says it 'stops' has to be setup by you in the first place... none of it is set up that way by default.
I've been a computer hardware engineer for 30 years and a software developer for 20 and I can tell you for a fact that all this moronic scare mongering about Windows 10 is total horse dung. It's being propagated by click mongers that want to get misinformed tongues wagging about stuff they know nothing about... the sole purpose of which is to drive traffic to their sites... you are being manipulated!
aussie_paul said
11:20 AM Aug 19, 2015
Thanks Ondabeach, sorting the wheat from the chaff for us non IT people can be very difficult, and creates unnecessary worry and fear.
Aussie Paul.
Phil C said
11:20 AM Aug 19, 2015
Hi all,
Steve, that is the best discussion on win 10 yet. I think the conspiracy scaremongers are at it again. The comment where there is smoke there is fire may be appropriate in some cases.
Frankly I have never trusted Microsoft since DOS 1, they strike me as a company who set out to produce a product not quite finished, then post "updates" and service packs after we have complained.
Enough of me, I rolled back to win8.1 after a number of crashes
Cheers, hope we are all well.
Ondabeach said
01:49 PM Aug 19, 2015
My advice though is not to upgrade to Windows 10 yet unless you are very familiar with finding and tweaking settings. By all means reserve your free upgrade, but wait until the final version has been out for a few months first, especially if you only have the one computer. Let the more computer savvy people out there find the bugs and save yourself the trouble.
Ontos45 said
02:05 PM Aug 19, 2015
That's the best advise yet. Its exactly what I am doing, let all the gremlins crawl out between the bits and bytes and someone else Raid them
carpaidiem said
06:18 PM Aug 20, 2015
Its a bit of George Orwell's 1984. I cant even get the stupid thing windows 10 to work. so I'm safe.
From a "dark" site 4 info.
A Traffic Analysis of Windows 10
Some Czech guy did a traffic analysis of data produced by Windows 10, and released his findings the other day.
His primary thesis was that Windows 10 acts more like a terminal than an operating system -- because of the extent of the "cloud" integration, a large portion of the OS functions are almost dependant on remote (Microsoft's) servers.
The amount of collected information, even with strict privacy settings, is quite alarming.
Information transmitted
All text typed on the keyboard is stored in temporary files, and sent (once per 30 mins) to:
oca.telemetry.microsoft.com.nsatc.net
pre.footprintpredict.com
reports.wes.df.telemetry.microsoft.com
There isn't a clear purpose for this, considering there there's no autocorrect/prediction anywhere in the OS.
The implications of this are significant: because this is an OS-level key logger, all the data you're trying to transmit securely is now sitting on some MS server.
This includes passwords and encrypted chats. This also includes the on-screen keyboard, so there is no way to authenticate to a website without MS also getting your password.
Telemetry is sent once per 5 minutes, to:
vortex.data.microsoft.com
vortex-win.data.microsoft.com
telecommand.telemetry.microsoft.com
telecommand.telemetry.microsoft.com.nsatc.net
oca.telemetry.microsoft.com
oca.telemetry.microsoft.com.nsatc.net
sqm.telemetry.microsoft.com
sqm.telemetry.microsoft.com.nsatc.net
You might think that "telemetry" has to do with OS usage or similar... turns out it's telemetry about the user.
For example, typing a phone number anywhere into the Edge browser transmits it to the servers above.
In another example, typing the name of any popular movie into your local file search starts a telemetry process that indexes all media files on your computer and transmits them to:
df.telemetry.microsoft.com
reports.wes.df.telemetry.microsoft.com
cs1.wpc.v0cdn.net
vortex-sandbox.data.microsoft.com
pre.footprintpredict.com
It's hard to imagine any purpose for this other than the obvious piracy crackdown possibilities.
When a webcam is first enabled, ~35mb of data gets immediately transmitted to:
oca.telemetry.microsoft.com
oca.telemetry.microsoft.com.nsatc.net
vortex-sandbox.data.microsoft.com
i1.services.social.microsoft.com
i1.services.social.microsoft.com.nsatc.net
Everything that is said into an enabled microphone is immediately transmitted to:
oca.telemetry.microsoft.com
oca.telemetry.microsoft.com.nsatc.net
vortex-sandbox.data.microsoft.com
pre.footprintpredict.com
i1.services.social.microsoft.com
i1.services.social.microsoft.com.nsatc.net
telemetry.appex.bing.net
telemetry.urs.microsoft.com
cs1.wpc.v0cdn.net
statsfe1.ws.microsoft.com
If this weren't bad enough, this behaviour still occurs after Cortana is fully disabled/uninstalled.
It's speculated that the purpose of this function to build up a massive voice database, then tie those voices to identities, and eventually be able to identify anyone simply by picking up their voice, whether it be a microphone in a public place or a wiretap on a payphone.
Interestingly, if Cortana is enabled, the voice is first transcribed to text, then the transcription is sent to:
pre.footprintpredict.com
reports.wes.df.telemetry.microsoft.com
df.telemetry.microsoft.com
If Windows is left unattended for ~15 mins, a large volume of traffic starts being transmitted to various servers. This may be the raw audio data, rather than just samples.
Other concerns
While the initial reflex may be to block all of the above servers via HOSTS, it turns out this won't work: Microsoft has taken the care to hardcode certain IPs, meaning that there is no DNS lookup and no HOSTS consultation.
However, if the above servers are blocked via HOSTS, Windows will pretend to be crippled by continuously throwing errors, while still maintaining data collection in the background.
Other than an increase in errors, HOSTS blocking did not affect the volume, frequency, or rate of data being transmitted.
Original article, credit AE News
.......................................................
I have been a science fiction fan since I learned to read and this level of surveillance, particularly when you add in the increased levels of video surveillance that is being implemented everywhere, it is right up there with worst case scenarios as predicted in many of the story plots I have read over the years.
Gday...
Peter - a bit of quick research reveals this -
http://localghost.org/posts/a-traffic-analysis-of-windows-10 - some 'modifying comments' and seeking validity confirmation
Could be true ... but we should keep eyes peeled for confirmation/elaboration praps.
Cheers - John
Whilst I am not saying that this isn't true, bear in mind that it is one article that has been repeated in many blogs over the web. So, if the number of articles posted are a measure of its authenticity then it must be true - right??????
What is more frightening is this article:
http://www.dhmo.org/facts.html
Sorry if this gives you nightmares
David
What a load of paranoid nonsense... get out there and enjoy your lives people... it's far too short to buy into moronic conspiracy theories.
Dihydrogen Monoxide is the long way to say H2O... AKA the scientific name for WATER!!!!!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dihydrogen_monoxide_hoax
Sorry Steve,
I think you missed the point.
If such data is and will be gathered, it will be too tempting not to take advantage of it commercially (like smart phones that transmit your location approx. every 20 mins) and then next it will be various govt's enabling themselves to access it for reasons of "national security".
I am on the W10 download list - think I'll wait a bit longer and see what happens meantime. We will know if this is just another urban myth or has some truth to it
It isn't true, it's a complete load of BS. Only a fraction of the data he mentions is uploaded by default, and you can turn all data upload off in settings.
Microsoft's EULAs always state that any data gathered is purely used for product improvement and is not shared with anyone without your consent. MS is one of the biggest companies on the planet with THE biggest customer base, and as such are under the most intense scrutiny of any company anywhere. Even if they had evil intent they would have absolutely no chance of getting away with anything for even a second.
Nimrod, I half suspected that your link the H2O scam site was tongue in cheek... the problem is that there's a scarily large number of people out there that would believe it to be genuine.
Having consulted with my Oracle who checked the chicken guts, says, where there is smoke there is generally fire. Don't trust any of them.
Hi Steve.
Yes it was to show that myths, without any foundation, can be perpetrated by simply posting an argument "on line" It gets re posted a few times and suddenly has a life of its own, becoming more believable with each retelling. Some people then look at company statements, or similar, and put their own conspiracy interpretation on what it really means in order to support their personal view or to direct traffic to their blog site so that they can sell advertising.
I have thought about the privacy issues over the past few days and would make some observations.
According to Internet World Statistics, there are 3,079,339,857 internet users in the world. Just assuming that each user only has one computer - and I have three, that's 3.08 billion computers. The average of various reports puts the Microsoft market share at 50.83% with Apple at 16.24% and Linux Kernel at 27.28%(includes android) Other 5.65%
That means that there are 1.56 billion computers in the world running Windows.
I think that it is fanciful to think that someone is monitoring all these computers and everything that is done on them every day. The manpower to do this would just about equal the entire adult population of China.
We know that specific web sites are monitored, for example to track terrorist activity, child abuse and certain financial transactions. Personal banking, phone calls and similar records are already able to be accessed by authorized persons, such as police and tax officers and government offices have data sharing arrangements, even internationally. A lot of this information you have to give, there are no options.
However, even these transactions generally need a trigger to focus attention. Otherwise they just remain as information sitting on a data base somewhere.
So what is the increased risk to personal privacy? A lot of people write just about all their personal life on social media sites such as Facebook and even on this forum some people write about their life experiences, whether they are on a state pension or are self funded and where they are or where they are going. Mind you if you have a mobile phone it is possible to track you anyway.
What annoys me about the way things are going is really the unwanted ads that keep appearing. For example, I looked at an on line ad for a Bailey caravan the other day. I really didn't want to buy one but was comparing tare and max weights. The next day, that ad plus others I might be interested in, and these are generally listed at the bottom of the ad you look at, appeared in one of the "information" bands on the on line TV schedule. Now this isn't done by a little man in a dark and dusty office somewhere, it is a data tracker that is embedded in the search engines and is unlikely to be stored for any length of time. It doesn't matter whether you are using Google of Explorer, they both have them. I guess that is the inconvenience we have to suffer for not having to buy the information as we used to do with the weekly TV guides and I am fast learning to just ignore them!
As far as a new operating system goes, it needs to do what I want it to do, be easy to use and is cost effective. I am not planning to break the law so I don't really care whether the system writers are monitoring some of my key strokes. Sure someone could hack the system and steal your passwords as seems to have happened a lot lately. It happens with mobile phone information being intercepted or even supposedly secure computer systems being hacked. Recent highly newsworthy events have been bank's and dating sites.
OK Had my rant and maybe shared my perspective on things
David
A very well reasoned and put together "rant".
Generally I agree with you (but that person is still in the bushes near me with a camera lol), but we must be vigilant to stop companies and govt's gathering info about individuals simply because they can do so. It wont affect many of us, but it will our kids and their kids in the future.
Perhaps there should be an Ombudsman type office in countries (yeah, I know - it wont ever happen in Russia or China) and that office approves what information can and cannot be gathered by companies and govts (with all the tax avoidance by MS, Google and the like - they can well afford to fund the cost).
Bruce,
Kids put more personal stuff out there than we would ever do. The generations after me, and I am..........Hurrummph...about ....er...............35.........ish, have few if any secrets
David
If you have nothing to hide, why would you worry??
I/m from the government... I'm here to help you.....
Sorry Peter, I received it in an email from someone, this was the only info with it, "From a "dark" site 4 info.."
Not being pc literate, I didn't understand a bit of it but thought others might.
I should have put on the post that it was not verified, so probably BS like some have said....
I don't know if this is what it is talking about, on a link, see;
http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2015/08/even-when-told-not-to-windows-10-just-cant-stop-talking-to-microsoft/
-- Edited by Weevil on Tuesday 18th of August 2015 08:03:53 PM
Link you asked for Peter
http://localghost.org/posts/a-traffic-analysis-of-windows-10
David
-- Edited by nimrod on Tuesday 18th of August 2015 08:04:43 PM
Gday...
David, that is the same link I found and put up earlier.
It is not the original 'post/URL' that seems to have been included in the OP's email he received. I believe it is to someone who is critical of the original and offers some comments within the article .. and seeks other comments/advice.
I have been unable to find the original story - only comments from 'techo experts' who have varying ideas/comments about the veracity of the "Czech guy's" traffic analysis.
We may never know ... and it all could be quite true.
Hopefully the 'settings' in WIN 10 will allow some control of the extent of the 'data collection' we are tolerant with. 
cheers - John
C'mon John, you're smarter than that. Next thing you'll be lending credibility to the idiot fodder in nimrod's joke post.
Guys did you see this post.
http://arstechnica.co.uk/information-technology/2015/08/even-when-told-not-to-windows-10-just-cant-stop-talking-to-microsoft/
Gday...
Cheers - John
I'm going to give faceb##k a rest for a while as it drives me mad.
Maybe an answer to those concerned.
Important Features at a Glance
Microsoft uses most data to display personalized information to you that is aimed at making your computer life easier. As an example, Windows 10 can remind you to set off to the airport 30 minutes earlier due to traffic en route. In order to deliver this information to you, however, Windows 10 has to access your calendar entries, your mails (i.e. the airline confirmation email), your location and it has to have access to the internet to get traffic news.
Some services protocol your entire keyboard entries, share your WLAN access data with your facebook contacts or connect your computer without asking permission to a public and potentially unprotected network. While this means that you and your contacts do not have to grapple with complicated WLAN passwords, it also poses a significant security risk.
Decide for yourself how important your comfort is when weighed up with your privacy and how to protect it. O&O ShutUp10 presents you with all important settings in one location you need no previous IT knowledge and there is no need to manually change the Windows 10 system settings.
O&O ShutUp10 is entirely free and does not have to be installed it can be simply run directly and immediately on your PC. And it will not install or download retrospectively unwanted or unnecessary software, like so many other programs do these days!
Please stop posting this misleading garbage guys! You might think you're helping your fellow Grey Nomads but you're not, you're just confusing them. Windows 10 DOES NOT share your connection access data with anyone unless you specifically tell it to in settings. It DOES NOT connect to any network without your permission or your having set it up that way!!! O&O shutup10 is an app site that wants traffic and clicks... which you're helping them to achieve... and it does nothing that you can't do for yourself in settings... and all of the stuff it says it 'stops' has to be setup by you in the first place... none of it is set up that way by default.
I've been a computer hardware engineer for 30 years and a software developer for 20 and I can tell you for a fact that all this moronic scare mongering about Windows 10 is total horse dung. It's being propagated by click mongers that want to get misinformed tongues wagging about stuff they know nothing about... the sole purpose of which is to drive traffic to their sites... you are being manipulated!
Thanks Ondabeach, sorting the wheat from the chaff for us non IT people can be very difficult, and creates unnecessary worry and fear.
Aussie Paul.
Steve, that is the best discussion on win 10 yet. I think the conspiracy scaremongers are at it again. The comment where there is smoke there is fire may be appropriate in some cases.
Frankly I have never trusted Microsoft since DOS 1, they strike me as a company who set out to produce a product not quite finished, then post "updates" and service packs after we have complained.
Enough of me, I rolled back to win8.1 after a number of crashes
Cheers, hope we are all well.
My advice though is not to upgrade to Windows 10 yet unless you are very familiar with finding and tweaking settings. By all means reserve your free upgrade, but wait until the final version has been out for a few months first, especially if you only have the one computer. Let the more computer savvy people out there find the bugs and save yourself the trouble.
That's the best advise yet. Its exactly what I am doing, let all the gremlins crawl out between the bits and bytes and someone else Raid them
Its a bit of George Orwell's 1984. I cant even get the stupid thing windows 10 to work. so I'm safe.