This advice is for those who do not comply. I am not defending the right or wrong of this regulation, I am (in good faith) just informing those who are not aware and would like to correct their situation if not compliant.
I do not want smart xxx replies or of those who put their heads in the sand and hope the issue goes away.
FYI, this morning I have spoken to a staff member of the NSW-RMS Technical Department regarding the number height issue. Note:This is also an Australian wide requirement.
I have been informed that the trailer MUST comply to VSB1 effective 1991 and regarding the number plate height MUST be no higher than 1300 mm, therefore any van found with the number plate not compliant will be deem as defective.
VSI No 58 published 21st March 2011 is also interesting reading, it clearly shows images of the angle that the number plate must not be obstructed e.g. spare wheels and tool boxes.
I was advised that a number of van manufacturers have been referred to the vehicle standards investigators for inspection and also now the NSW police vehicles are now fitted with number plate recognition cameras which are focus on the number plate being no higher than 1300mm and if the camera in the police vehicle cannot read the number plate, the caravan will be stopped and issued with a defective vehicle notice.
The driver is responsible for the penalty and in NSW is 3 demerit points and $415.00 (see reg 2007 CI 52 (1)(a).
If the caravan is still under warranty it is suggested it should be referred back to the selling dealer for rectification.
In NSW, caravans of a GTM exceeding 2000Kgs will be inspected now by heavy vehicle inspectors and unlike car inspection which is more a safety check, heavy vehicle inspectors do both a safety and compliance check, which in NSW covers the number plate height, remote battery monitor and safety chains etc..
I would be pleased, if you would contact and confirm the information advised, please contact the RMS Technical Department on 1300 137 302, this is for NSW registered vehicles only or your own state authorities.
In addition, I also discussed the allowable overhang of the caravan and the requirement is the distance from the tow ball to the axle centre line (or the centre of a group of two or more axles) must not exceed 8.5M and the rear overhang, including any attachments to the trailer, must not exceed 3.7M.
madaboutled said
08:03 PM Jul 24, 2015
Was discussing this issue with someone else just today. Apparently the 1300mm rule is being inforced because Red Light & other traffic cameras are focused below 1300mm and its not just NSW, Qld coppers are also targeting high number plate issues with similar fines.
migra said
08:49 PM Jul 24, 2015
It appears that most caravan manufacturers are located in Victoria, Queensland and Western Australia and it appears they do not care their product does not comply.
In NSW, to my knowledge there is only one caravan manufacturer and their product appears to comply.
I feel sorry for the driver, because of his lack of knowledge, when the manufacturer should be held responsible or at least the dealer who is registering the caravan.
The NSW compliance officer advised it was up to the various states to do their own inspections. They also advised this issue was rising to the surface because the number of phone calls they are receiving on this issue.
Next time your in a caravan park or free camping just walk around and see how many are not compliant. A lot of the owners don't care but will scream when they get booked.
the RMS at Dubbo and Parkes in NSW have commented that they get abused when they pull a caravan over and issue a defect, I am not defending them, it is not their fault, they are the ones that have to police the regulation.
I have had caravaners say "they don't care........I will wait until I get booked"......what an attitude !!!!,
I can't change attitudes but hope I save some bugger from getting booked.
Woody n Sue said
09:09 PM Jul 24, 2015
have had caravaners say "they don't care........I will wait until I get booked"......what an attitude !!!!, disbelief
Probably the same ones who don't care how much traffic is held up behind them
I say let em get booked then if that's there attitude you can't help stupid
Kendo said
09:44 PM Jul 24, 2015
A recent thread on the same subject cause me to drop in to the caravan dealer we are buying our new van from. I checked a similar van to ours and the number plate height was a lot higher than 1.3mt. I spoke to them and sent an email with the relevant ADR rule (from the other thread) and they were only too happy to make the change to have our van comply.
I wonder what happens when some one has an off road van with a large exit angled rear end? I would imagine 1.3mt would easily be exceeded and you wouldn't have anything to hang a number plate off?
NeilandRaine said
07:42 AM Jul 25, 2015
Interested to read that inspections will now be done by heavy vehicles inspectors in NSW. We have had the van inspected in Qld and the NT. The bloke in Qld was more interested in gas certification and the NT bloke thought the dimensions of the van as most important. Just wondering if this will make a difference to getting a road worthy interstate.
Also as to the height of the number plate in NSW in relation to speed and red light cameras, the (only a couple of times) I have been done by a camera was front on. Vic can catch you going but the plate height isn't an issue there
The Bear said
12:23 PM Jul 25, 2015
This subject has been on the boil for some time now, I would like to know what the relevant car and caravan clubs doing to protect their members as the fault with complying with the rules is not the doing of the person who buy a van from a "reputable dealer" but the manufactures
Bear
Murraman said
01:25 PM Jul 25, 2015
Does this apply to front number plate, Why I ask is we have a coaster and I have the front number plate mounted on the mesh windscreen protector at the lowest point. Last rego I asked the mechanic if he had an issue legally with mounting it their.
His answer was no as he has nothing in his regulations governing it on the front, But if they want the plate fixed at below 1300mm for in car plate recognition then it would be looking at plates on the front as well as the back wouldn't it?
When we bought the Coaster in QLD the number plate was in the same place.
Cheers Allan
Phillipn said
03:56 PM Jul 25, 2015
Murraman wrote:
Does this apply to front number plate, Why I ask is we have a coaster and I have the front number plate mounted on the mesh windscreen protector at the lowest point. Last rego I asked the mechanic if he had an issue legally with mounting it their.
His answer was no as he has nothing in his regulations governing it on the front, But if they want the plate fixed at below 1300mm for in car plate recognition then it would be looking at plates on the front as well as the back wouldn't it?
When we bought the Coaster in QLD the number plate was in the same place.
Cheers Allan
The same rule applies to the front number plate. Read the ADR. 1300 mm is the max height.
dogbox said
05:23 PM Jul 25, 2015
NeilandRaine wrote:
Interested to read that inspections will now be done by heavy vehicles inspectors in NSW. We have had the van inspected in Qld and the NT. The bloke in Qld was more interested in gas certification and the NT bloke thought the dimensions of the van as most important. Just wondering if this will make a difference to getting a road worthy interstate. Also as to the height of the number plate in NSW in relation to speed and red light cameras, the (only a couple of times) I have been done by a camera was front on. Vic can catch you going but the plate height isn't an issue there
each inspector or police officer will have his own area of expertise(for want of a better phrase) that he/she focuses on so when more become aware of this issue there will be more enforcement
migra said
06:54 PM Jul 25, 2015
This number plate law isa national law and each state inspectors are responssible for the inspection.
The RMS in NSW are aware some inspectors are not enforcing the rules and they will state to talk to the inspectors.
We wait and see !!!!!
One vehicle inspector has already defected 3 caravans that came in for rego inspection, they abused him and said they have been inspected before and not a problem....he refused to issue a certificate and sent them on their way, little did they know he registered the defect on his computer which will appear when they get an inspection else where. Stuff them he said !!!!
Murraman said
07:19 PM Jul 25, 2015
Thanks for the info I'll re locate the plate and have a talk to the Mechanic as he obviously has no idea of the rules. I would have it a guess that a lot of Mechanics issuing a pink slip in NSW are not aware of the rules and should have been given this info from RMS.
Cheers Allan
rockylizard said
07:45 PM Jul 25, 2015
Gday...
This topic has certainly been given considerable airing, since the NRMA article brought it to popular notice some months ago.
This is the ADR from which each State draws its VSB (the 1,300mm applies to front and rear of vehicle, and rear of trailer (caravan) -
Vehicle Standard (Australian Design Rule 61/02 Vehicle Markings) 2005
9.1.1. All Vehicles other than L-Group Vehicles and TA category trailers having an overall width not exceeding 980 mm:
9.1.1.1. provision must be made for mounting a registration plate (as shown in Figure 1) to be affixed to the rear of the vehicle so that no part of such plate is more than 1,300 mm from the ground.
9.1.1.2. provision must be made for mounting a registration plate (as shown in Figure 1) to be affixed to the front of the motor vehicle forward of and parallel to the front Axle so that no part of such registration plate is more than 1,300 mm from the ground.
9.1.1.3. no part of a vehicle, including its standard equipment, regular production options or Equipment must be so located as to obscure any part of the registration plate(s).
From my own observations of vans I now check at least 70% I have seen are non-compliant - irrespective of the State of Registration.
cheers - John
migra said
08:42 PM Jul 25, 2015
Bear
Last month I wrote to the Caravan & Motorhome Magazine advising them of the number plate regulation as "Fred Wright" who is the editor at large of the magazine and was shown in the magazine towing a Crusader brand caravan which the number plate appeared to be above the 1300mm requirement and as of today NO REPLY has been received from him.
his magazine should print and advise caravan owners of this issue, maybe they could lose advertising income from the manufacturers if he prints that a number of caravan manufacturers are supplying caravans in breach of the regulations.
Bruce and Bev said
10:09 PM Jul 25, 2015
Hey Migra. I emailed the same magazine about 6 months ago asking when they intended to publish it on-line for those of us who spend a fair (or all) part of the year on the road.
Never heard back from them............
Wont be renewing my subscription with them when it finally expires. I think it has also gone to "the dogs" at bit - fewer genuine articles and lots of reviews about all the "fabulous" Australian made RVs (yeah - right) that are only advertorials. Even the tech articles now push the writers business and guess what - you really need that company right now or your RV or tow vehicle will need very expensive repairs.
Nope - its only a shadow of what it used to be
Felicia said
11:04 PM Jul 25, 2015
After reading about the requirements on here and checking our van the number plate was above the 1300 mm. It is a 3 year old van so rang the manufacture and he said bring it in we will fix it at no cost. Bought it in Vic live in NSW, planning to travel that way in 3 months, just hope we don't get booked on the way.
Lynda
migra said
11:56 AM Jul 26, 2015
Lynda
I am please you took the issue up with the seller and am more pleased they are going to make it compliant on your visit....just remember to get them to relocate the number plate light as well. I bet they do not think of that !!!!
I hope others react as you did.....the more people complain the manufacturers will get the message.....sell a caravan that complies to the regulations/law.
migra said
11:58 AM Jul 26, 2015
Allan
don,t forget to relocate the number plate light with the number plate.
migra said
12:02 PM Jul 26, 2015
Kendo
If you had not brought this to their attention they would have supplied you with a van that was defective....how many before you are defective and are they going to review their position now ????
migra said
12:07 PM Jul 26, 2015
Bruce and Bev wrote:
Hey Migra. I emailed the same magazine about 6 months ago asking when they intended to publish it on-line for those of us who spend a fair (or all) part of the year on the road.
Never heard back from them............
Wont be renewing my subscription with them when it finally expires. I think it has also gone to "the dogs" at bit - fewer genuine articles and lots of reviews about all the "fabulous" Australian made RVs (yeah - right) that are only advertorials. Even the tech articles now push the writers business and guess what - you really need that company right now or your RV or tow vehicle will need very expensive repairs.
Nope - its only a shadow of what it used to be
Bruce
I will be taking this issue back to them for comment......will be interested.
i think they should write an article on compliance issues e.g. number plate height, overhang etc, weights and interview the inspectors .
Kendo said
12:59 PM Jul 26, 2015
migra wrote:
Kendo
If you had not brought this to their attention they would have supplied you with a van that was defective....how many before you are defective and are they going to review their position now ????
Hey I was just happy I got no argument or "you don't know what your talking about" comment from the dealer.
Adelaide City Caravans were only too happy to pass on the information to the builder (Mind you I know the first thing I'll be checking when they call to tell me the van's ready to be picked up).
migra said
01:17 PM Jul 26, 2015
Kendo wrote:
A recent thread on the same subject cause me to drop in to the caravan dealer we are buying our new van from. I checked a similar van to ours and the number plate height was a lot higher than 1.3mt. I spoke to them and sent an email with the relevant ADR rule (from the other thread) and they were only too happy to make the change to have our van comply.
I wonder what happens when some one has an off road van with a large exit angled rear end? I would imagine 1.3mt would easily be exceeded and you wouldn't have anything to hang a number plate off?
Kendo
If they relocate the number plate make sure the spare wheel does not breach the following;
Clause 61(2)(b) of Schedule 2 of the Regulation requires that a number-plate is not obscured, defaced or otherwise not legible.
Clause 61(2)(c) of Schedule 2 of the Regulation requires that a number-plate must be visible at a distance of 20 metres from it and within all the areas described by an arc extending at an angle 45°above the top of the number-plate and 45° forward of its edges.
Phillipn said
02:46 PM Jul 26, 2015
migra wrote:
Bear
Last month I wrote to the Caravan & Motorhome Magazine advising them of the number plate regulation as "Fred Wright" who is the editor at large of the magazine and was shown in the magazine towing a Crusader brand caravan which the number plate appeared to be above the 1300mm requirement and as of today NO REPLY has been received from him.
his magazine should print and advise caravan owners of this issue, maybe they could lose advertising income from the manufacturers if he prints that a number of caravan manufacturers are supplying caravans in breach of the regulations.
I did the same, also no reply. Looks like C & M don`t want to know about the issue.
I checked out the C & M web site forum, their are a large number of posts on the forum regarding this issue.
-- Edited by Phillipn on Monday 27th of July 2015 08:58:54 AM
Bill B said
04:55 PM Jul 26, 2015
C & M is printed overseas therefore it has a lead time of 3 - 4 months.
migra said
05:45 PM Jul 26, 2015
Bill B wrote:
C & M is printed overseas therefore it has a lead time of 3 - 4 months.
Bill
I did not get a reply.......I have today sent another email asking them to publish the regulations and I have had confirmation that my email has been received, see below
Kathryn Thomas on Sun, 26 Jul 2015 13:15:09 +1000
Jonathan Pullen on Sun, 26 Jul 2015 13:15:09 +1000
Tim Ferrier on Sun, 26 Jul 2015 13:15:09 +1000
Fred Wright CM on Sun, 26 Jul 2015 13:15:09 +1000
Matt Smith on Sun, 26 Jul 2015 13:15:09 +1000
Glenn Wright on Sun, 26 Jul 2015 13:15:09 +1000
Await and see. !!!!!!
barrie said
09:54 PM Jul 26, 2015
I have sent an email to New Age and they will convert my No plate to comply when the ruling is made clear .
greyhoundtom said
06:05 AM Jul 27, 2015
barrie wrote:
I have sent an email to New Age and they will convert my No plate to comply when the ruling is made clear .
The regulation is not clear?
i was not aware that C/van manufacturers were waiting on a "ruling" before they would voluntarily comply with the required regulations.
migra said
06:38 PM Jul 27, 2015
barrie wrote:
I have sent an email to New Age and they will convert my No plate to comply when the ruling is made clear .
Barrie,
(1) Ring the department (number supplied in my previous email) and speak to the compliance officer and ask him .....it is very clear to them. Give them the name of the caravan brand and tell the department that they will not do anything to correct this defect.
(2) Send New-Age an email requesting they take full responsibility if you are find !!!!
-- Edited by migra on Monday 27th of July 2015 06:40:24 PM
This advice is for those who do not comply. I am not defending the right or wrong of this regulation, I am (in good faith) just informing those who are not aware and would like to correct their situation if not compliant.
I do not want smart xxx replies or of those who put their heads in the sand and hope the issue goes away.
FYI, this morning I have spoken to a staff member of the NSW-RMS Technical Department regarding the number height issue. Note:This is also an Australian wide requirement.
I have been informed that the trailer MUST comply to VSB1 effective 1991 and regarding the number plate height MUST be no higher than 1300 mm, therefore any van found with the number plate not compliant will be deem as defective.
VSI No 58 published 21st March 2011 is also interesting reading, it clearly shows images of the angle that the number plate must not be obstructed e.g. spare wheels and tool boxes.
I was advised that a number of van manufacturers have been referred to the vehicle standards investigators for inspection and also now the NSW police vehicles are now fitted with number plate recognition cameras which are focus on the number plate being no higher than 1300mm and if the camera in the police vehicle cannot read the number plate, the caravan will be stopped and issued with a defective vehicle notice.
The driver is responsible for the penalty and in NSW is 3 demerit points and $415.00 (see reg 2007 CI 52 (1)(a).
If the caravan is still under warranty it is suggested it should be referred back to the selling dealer for rectification.
In NSW, caravans of a GTM exceeding 2000Kgs will be inspected now by heavy vehicle inspectors and unlike car inspection which is more a safety check, heavy vehicle inspectors do both a safety and compliance check, which in NSW covers the number plate height, remote battery monitor and safety chains etc..
I would be pleased, if you would contact and confirm the information advised, please contact the RMS Technical Department on 1300 137 302, this is for NSW registered vehicles only or your own state authorities.
In addition, I also discussed the allowable overhang of the caravan and the requirement is the distance from the tow ball to the axle centre line (or the centre of a group of two or more axles) must not exceed 8.5M and the rear overhang, including any attachments to the trailer, must not exceed 3.7M.
Was discussing this issue with someone else just today. Apparently the 1300mm rule is being inforced because Red Light & other traffic cameras are focused below 1300mm and its not just NSW, Qld coppers are also targeting high number plate issues with similar fines.
It appears that most caravan manufacturers are located in Victoria, Queensland and Western Australia and it appears they do not care their product does not comply.
In NSW, to my knowledge there is only one caravan manufacturer and their product appears to comply.
I feel sorry for the driver, because of his lack of knowledge, when the manufacturer should be held responsible or at least the dealer who is registering the caravan.
The NSW compliance officer advised it was up to the various states to do their own inspections. They also advised this issue was rising to the surface because the number of phone calls they are receiving on this issue.
Next time your in a caravan park or free camping just walk around and see how many are not compliant. A lot of the owners don't care but will scream when they get booked.
the RMS at Dubbo and Parkes in NSW have commented that they get abused when they pull a caravan over and issue a defect, I am not defending them, it is not their fault, they are the ones that have to police the regulation.
I have had caravaners say "they don't care........I will wait until I get booked"......what an attitude !!!!,
I can't change attitudes but hope I save some bugger from getting booked.
Probably the same ones who don't care how much traffic is held up behind them
I say let em get booked then if that's there attitude you can't help stupid
A recent thread on the same subject cause me to drop in to the caravan dealer we are buying our new van from. I checked a similar van to ours and the number plate height was a lot higher than 1.3mt. I spoke to them and sent an email with the relevant ADR rule (from the other thread) and they were only too happy to make the change to have our van comply.
I wonder what happens when some one has an off road van with a large exit angled rear end? I would imagine 1.3mt would easily be exceeded and you wouldn't have anything to hang a number plate off?
Also as to the height of the number plate in NSW in relation to speed and red light cameras, the (only a couple of times) I have been done by a camera was front on. Vic can catch you going but the plate height isn't an issue there
Bear
His answer was no as he has nothing in his regulations governing it on the front, But if they want the plate fixed at below 1300mm for in car plate recognition then it would be looking at plates on the front as well as the back wouldn't it?
When we bought the Coaster in QLD the number plate was in the same place.
Cheers Allan
The same rule applies to the front number plate. Read the ADR. 1300 mm is the max height.
each inspector or police officer will have his own area of expertise(for want of a better phrase) that he/she focuses on so when more become aware of this issue there will be more enforcement
This number plate law isa national law and each state inspectors are responssible for the inspection.
The RMS in NSW are aware some inspectors are not enforcing the rules and they will state to talk to the inspectors.
We wait and see !!!!!
One vehicle inspector has already defected 3 caravans that came in for rego inspection, they abused him and said they have been inspected before and not a problem....he refused to issue a certificate and sent them on their way, little did they know he registered the defect on his computer which will appear when they get an inspection else where. Stuff them he said !!!!
Cheers Allan
Gday...
This topic has certainly been given considerable airing, since the NRMA article brought it to popular notice some months ago.
This is the ADR from which each State draws its VSB (the 1,300mm applies to front and rear of vehicle, and rear of trailer (caravan) -
Vehicle Standard (Australian Design Rule 61/02 Vehicle Markings) 2005
https://www.comlaw.gov.au/Details/F2009C00568
9. REGISTRATION PLATES AND LABEL HOLDERS
9.1. Registration Plates
9.1.1. All Vehicles other than L-Group Vehicles and TA category trailers having an overall width not exceeding 980 mm:
9.1.1.1. provision must be made for mounting a registration plate (as shown in Figure 1) to be affixed to the rear of the vehicle so that no part of such plate is more than 1,300 mm from the ground.
9.1.1.2. provision must be made for mounting a registration plate (as shown in Figure 1) to be affixed to the front of the motor vehicle forward of and parallel to the front Axle so that no part of such registration plate is more than 1,300 mm from the ground.
9.1.1.3. no part of a vehicle, including its standard equipment, regular production options or Equipment must be so located as to obscure any part of the registration plate(s).
From my own observations of vans I now check at least 70% I have seen are non-compliant - irrespective of the State of Registration.
cheers - John
Bear
Last month I wrote to the Caravan & Motorhome Magazine advising them of the number plate regulation as "Fred Wright" who is the editor at large of the magazine and was shown in the magazine towing a Crusader brand caravan which the number plate appeared to be above the 1300mm requirement and as of today NO REPLY has been received from him.
his magazine should print and advise caravan owners of this issue, maybe they could lose advertising income from the manufacturers if he prints that a number of caravan manufacturers are supplying caravans in breach of the regulations.
Never heard back from them............
Wont be renewing my subscription with them when it finally expires. I think it has also gone to "the dogs" at bit - fewer genuine articles and lots of reviews about all the "fabulous" Australian made RVs (yeah - right) that are only advertorials. Even the tech articles now push the writers business and guess what - you really need that company right now or your RV or tow vehicle will need very expensive repairs.
Nope - its only a shadow of what it used to be
Lynda
Lynda
I am please you took the issue up with the seller and am more pleased they are going to make it compliant on your visit....just remember to get them to relocate the number plate light as well. I bet they do not think of that !!!!
I hope others react as you did.....the more people complain the manufacturers will get the message.....sell a caravan that complies to the regulations/law.
Allan
don,t forget to relocate the number plate light with the number plate.
Kendo
If you had not brought this to their attention they would have supplied you with a van that was defective....how many before you are defective and are they going to review their position now ????
Bruce
I will be taking this issue back to them for comment......will be interested.
i think they should write an article on compliance issues e.g. number plate height, overhang etc, weights and interview the inspectors .
Hey I was just happy I got no argument or "you don't know what your talking about" comment from the dealer.
Adelaide City Caravans were only too happy to pass on the information to the builder (Mind you I know the first thing I'll be checking when they call to tell me the van's ready to be picked up).
Kendo
If they relocate the number plate make sure the spare wheel does not breach the following;
I did the same, also no reply. Looks like C & M don`t want to know about the issue.
I checked out the C & M web site forum, their are a large number of posts on the forum regarding this issue.
-- Edited by Phillipn on Monday 27th of July 2015 08:58:54 AM
Bill
I did not get a reply.......I have today sent another email asking them to publish the regulations and I have had confirmation that my email has been received, see below
Kathryn Thomas on Sun, 26 Jul 2015 13:15:09 +1000
Jonathan Pullen on Sun, 26 Jul 2015 13:15:09 +1000
Tim Ferrier on Sun, 26 Jul 2015 13:15:09 +1000
Fred Wright CM on Sun, 26 Jul 2015 13:15:09 +1000
Matt Smith on Sun, 26 Jul 2015 13:15:09 +1000
Glenn Wright on Sun, 26 Jul 2015 13:15:09 +1000
Await and see. !!!!!!
The regulation is not clear?
i was not aware that C/van manufacturers were waiting on a "ruling" before they would voluntarily comply with the required regulations.
Barrie,
(1) Ring the department (number supplied in my previous email) and speak to the compliance officer and ask him .....it is very clear to them. Give them the name of the caravan brand and tell the department that they will not do anything to correct this defect.
(2) Send New-Age an email requesting they take full responsibility if you are find !!!!
-- Edited by migra on Monday 27th of July 2015 06:40:24 PM